Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JPRouve]

I think squad quality isn't the issue at United. Ten Hag, Antony, Casemiro, Varane, Sancho, Martinez, van de Beek were very good signings at the point of their announcements, IMO, and many players with a longer history such as Rashford, Garnacho, Shaw, Bruno or Eriksen proved that they are capable of playing football at a very high standard. Yet with a few exceptions, all of them underwhelm. There has to be a root cause for why so few players and managers fulfill their potential and until you've solved that problem, it won't really matter who you bring in. A player who currently plsys well for Bayern will most likely eventually be a shadow of his former self after joining United.

My guess is a clear lack of ambition and expectation from within. And primarily from managers who for some reason don't believe that their work is to actually coach every player and maximize every single one of them, when a manager has low standards for himself how can player have high standard? Also, and I'm guilty of it, everyone becomes a hero after a couple of good games, look at Garnacho or how things are turning for Diallo.

Manchester United is a low standard Football club.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I suppose being able to field a left back, right back and two center backs helps too.

They had a RB (Krafth) playing at CB. They were also missing 3 of their regular back four/five from the starting XI. Pope, Botman and Schär all start when fully fit. You could also argue that Livramento has overtaken Trippier at this point. He's become a liability defensively.

Whatever makes you feel better about ten Hag though.

 

[RedSky]

I’d of loved to see Arsenals voting when they all wanted Arteta out. That must have been at least 90% of their fans.

We should have kept David Moyes then. We fans know nothing and maybe if he was given several seasons he could have turned out good. Sound logic.

 

[VP89]

They had a RB (Krafth) playing at CB. They were also missing 3 of their regular back four/five from the starting XI. Pope, Botman and Schär all start when fully fit. You could also argue that Livramento has overtaken Trippier at this point. He's become a liability defensively.

Whatever makes you feel better about ten Hag though.

He can play RB or CB. It's not like they took Bruno Gimares or Joelinton to play at CB. Also, they were able to field 4 defenders on the pitch. I'm not at odds with your sentiment that a win was fortunate, and it's a bit weird you crowbarring Ten Hag into the conversation. There are a couple big chances unrelated to our structure or tactical set ups, for example the wan bissaka brainfarts of unforced errors. I'm not sure why that's related to Ten Hag.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

They were able to field 4 defenders on the pitch. I'm not at odds with your sentiment that a win was fortunate, and it's a bit weird you crowbarring Ten Hag into the conversation. There are a couple big chances unrelated to our structure or tactical set ups, for example the wan bissaka brainfarts of unforced errors. I'm not sure why that's related to Ten Hag.

Sure thing, buddy.

Our goals were all beautifully worked off the training ground. Those pesky defenders/midfielders and their unforced errors cost ten Hag again. Can't catch a break.

 

[LDUred]

It's so daft that he brought in Amrabat (who I've defended on here and who I've suggested should play) and then finally, with the season almost over, he suddenly realizes that it might be a good idea to play the defensive midfielder he waited until the end of the transfer window to sign.

Amrabat is quite a limited player technically, but he is capable of doing a job in front of the back four, and we've needed someone who will at least add a physical presence in midfield. Like, that is as clear as day to anyone, that off the ball we are far too passive and barely harrying the opposition in central midfield, and he has not changed anything while whinging about injuries this, injuries that.

When he stubbornly refuses to adapt these tactics that the entire world can see are flawed, he has no right to moan about injuries. He's also continued to pick Anthony even when Amad has been at his disposal for months.

I cannot understand him sometimes and it must be pretty infuriating for the players. We can talk about the Glazers but the squad he has had available is capable of finishing higher than 7th or 8th.

 

[VP89]

Sure thing, buddy.

Our goals were all beautifully worked off the training ground. Those pesky defenders/midfielders and their unforced errors cost ten Hag again. Can't catch a break.

You know that's not what I said, and you've resorted to exaggerating despite me agreeing the win was fortunate. Good work, keep it up.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yeah, they had 17 points after 15 games and a -4GD. Which equals to 1.13 PPG. Arsenal then took 44 points from the next 23 games. Which equals to 1.91 PPG.

ten Hag was on 27 points from 15 games with a GD of 0 this season. Which equals to 1.8 PPG. United then took 30 points from the next 22 games. Which equals to 1.36 PPG.

Arsenal were in Europe until late that season. They made it to the semi-finals in Europe. So even though they had midweek distractions, they still improved after Christmas.

We went out of Europe before Christmas and got worse as the season went on. We went from a GD of 0 to a GD of -3

That's how bad this season has been. Arsenal's 8th place season was better. The only way this season can shade it is by winning The FA Cup.

They lost less PL games and finished with a +16GD.

And it took Arteta 4 seasons to have a better season than ETH's first one. It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.

Improvement and development is often not linear. It's clear that this season ETH was too stubborn by ditching the pragmatic approach that he used last season, because that's what suits this squad. Just in the last few games he has seemingly reverted to that now, and we've been playing way better than before. I think he also mentioned it in the Neville interview that he didn't want another season with makeshift tactics in order to get results but halt the real progress.

If ETH stays, I reckon we sign at least two new centre backs and a defensive midfielder for him, and I think that might just help him achieve his possession-based 4-3-3 system that has been a tragic viewing this season. It's important to have CBs and a DM that can play a high defensive line, and cover/defend big spaces and areas on the pitch, and manage transitions if we lose possession. If that happens, I'm confident that we'll actually have a solid, working midfield with Mainoo, a new #6, and Bruno, that won't get emptied every game, we'll start controlling most of our games, and this squad is good enough to get 80+ points in the PL with 4+ new signings. I think there'll be at least 4 significant arrivals, that's why I'm saying 4+. However, if the same struggles continue with the current squad + 4 or more new players, and we manage to avoid injuries as well, then he will be gone probably weeks before Christmas.

 

[VP89]

It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.

Thank feck someone else has called this out too.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

You know that's not what I said, and you've resorted to exaggerating despite me agreeing the win was fortunate. Good work, keep it up.

You're trying to absolve ten Hag though. That he's blameless for our chaotic style of play.

 

[croadyman]

If he puts up a strong showing in the cup final he’ll probably continue. Options to replace him are dwindling

Yeah he may not even need to win now,no wonder he keeps sound bullish about his future.

 

[JPRouve]

And it took Arteta 4 seasons to have a better season than ETH's first one. It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.

Improvement and development is often not linear. It's clear that this season ETH was too stubborn by ditching the pragmatic approach that he used last season, because that's what suits this squad. Just in the last few games he has seemingly reverted to that now, and we've been playing way better than before. I think he also mentioned it in the Neville interview that he didn't want another season with makeshift tactics in order to get results but halt the real progress.

If ETH stays, I reckon we sign at least two new centre backs and a defensive midfielder for him, and I think that might just help him achieve his possession-based 4-3-3 system that has been a tragic viewing this season. It's important to have CBs and a DM that can play a high defensive line, and cover/defend big spaces and areas on the pitch, and manage transitions if we lose possession. If that happens, I'm confident that we'll actually have a solid, working midfield with Mainoo, a new #6, and Bruno, that won't get emptied every game, we'll start controlling most of our games, and this squad is good enough to get 80+ points in the PL with 4+ new signings. I think there'll be at least 4 significant arrivals, that's why I'm saying 4+. However, if the same struggles continue with the current squad + 4 or more new players, and we manage to avoid injuries as well, then he will be gone probably weeks before Christmas.

That to me is everything. I said it before, I believe that ETH is perfectly able to have good and very good results with this club but he exposed something about himself that is in my opinion not forgettable or excusable, there is no way for me to ever trust him because now I know that he is able to sabotage himself and the club on purpose.

I don't really mind it if he is the manager at the start of next season but if I was INEOS, he would be on the hotseat 24/7 for the rest of his career.

 

[VP89]

You're trying to absolve ten Hag though. That he's blameless for our chaotic style of play.

Im not absolving anything - our structure yesterday wasn't as open and we had some silly unforced errors leading to big chances. I think yesterday's game and the arsenal game were correct set ups by the manager but I'm very wiling to grant he's had a LOT of feck ups this season, palace home and away, Bournemouth, West ham away, Chelsea at home are just a few.

All I'm saying is yesterday and Arsenal were actually decent set ups and we played as well as I'd expect given the available players, irrespective of who is coaching us.

 

[Rojofiam]

That to me is everything. I said it before, I believe that ETH is perfectly able to have good and very good results with this club but he exposed something about himself that is in my opinion not forgettable or excusable, there is no way for me to ever trust him because now I know that he is able to sabotage himself and the club on purpose.

I don't really mind it if he is the manager at the start of next season but if I was INEOS, he would be on the hotseat 24/7 for the rest of his career.

I know what you mean and it's very frustrating to me as well. We could've had another top 4 finish this season, probably in 4th behind Liverpool, and possibly gone at least to the quarters of the CL. However, I'm willing to excuse him for the CL performance as we had several good performances ruined by Onana howlers or refereeing decisions, especially the two away games in Istanbul and Copenhagen. That should've been 6 extra points.

 

[Oldyella]

There are lots of fans who only take the result into consideration and then base their opinion on that.

Newcastle had 55% possession, 21 shots (16 inside the box), 6 big chances, hit the post twice, had one cleared off the line, and were robbed of a penalty. 2.37 xG.

They accumulated 1.91 xG from open play compared to our 0.93 xG. Fairly even from set-pieces.

Most teams will win at OT if they produce a similar performance. We were clinical for a change. We had 2 big chances and converted 1 of them. They missed 5 of their 6.

It reminds me of when we beat West Ham 3-0 and everyone thought we dominated. That game was better than last night. It's a good result. But it wasn't a strong overall performance.

Very similar to a couple of months ago, where we were riding our luck at times. People said it couldnt last and the luck would turn, and it eventually did and teams put their chances away against us.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Second time.

I'm eating toasties, and you've made me splutter. You're a mad man!

Sorry

I think it's telling that he didn't....

Who says he has learned his lesson? For all we know the next two matches are going to include Antony on the right wing again.

 

[JPRouve]

I know what you mean and it's very frustrating to me as well. We could've had another top 4 finish this season, probably in 4th behind Liverpool, and possibly gone at least to the quarters of the CL. However, I'm willing to excuse him for the CL performance as we had several good performances ruined by Onana howlers or refereeing decisions, especially the two away games in Istanbul and Copenhagen. That should've been 6 extra points.

There is zero excuse, especially when it comes to our CL performances, they were terrible. We had negative expected goals in 4 of our 6 games, we won one game with a negative xG difference, lost one game with a positive xG difference and drew one game with an xG of 1.6 and 1.5 xGA.

We absolutely deserved to be last, our performances and underlying stats show it.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

And it took Arteta 4 seasons to have a better season than ETH's first one. It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.

Improvement and development is often not linear. It's clear that this season ETH was too stubborn by ditching the pragmatic approach that he used last season, because that's what suits this squad. Just in the last few games he has seemingly reverted to that now, and we've been playing way better than before. I think he also mentioned it in the Neville interview that he didn't want another season makeshift tactics in order to get results but halt the real progress.

If ETH stays, I reckon we sign at least two new centre backs and a defensive midfielder for him, and I think that might just help him achieve his possession-based 4-3-3 system that has been a tragic viewing this season. It's important to have CBs and a DM that can play a high defensive line, and cover/defend big spaces and areas on the pitch, and manage transitions if we lose possession. If that happens, I'm confident that we'll actually have a solid, working midfield with Mainoo, a new #6, and Bruno, that won't get emptied every game, we'll start controlling most of our games, and this squad is good enough to get 80+ points in the PL with 4+ new signings. I think there'll be at least 4 significant arrivals, that's why I'm saying 4+. However, if the same struggles continue with the current squad + 4 or more new players, and we manage to avoid injuries as well, then he will be gone probably weeks before Christmas.

Nah, you thought you were on to a winner with the 15th at Christmas post. It's incredibly relevant. It provides context. You didn't provide any.

Both Arsenal and Liverpool's progress was in fact linear under Arteta and Klopp. We weren't solid last night. Newcastle caused us more problems than most other teams this season. There's nothing to gain from the way we're playing this season. It's suicidal football. That interview certainly worked for ten Hag if people are buying what he's selling. Nobody can look at the way we play and think that we're only a few pieces away from being set. We need to sign players to replace his players in most areas.

He doesn't want to achieve a possession based system though. He wants us to become the best transition team in the league. Counter-pressing and quick transitions. He wants us to be a better version of what we currently are.

But anyway, I'm going to take a break from ten Hag related topics. It's the same arguments from both sides No need to reply. We'll only go around in circles.

 

[TsuWave]

"Arteta" really became the anchor people attach their "wish & a prayer" hopes to for this Pep Guardiola is my idol. Incredible

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Im not absolving anything - our structure yesterday wasn't as open and we had some silly unforced errors leading to big chances. I think yesterday's game and the arsenal game were correct set ups by the manager but I'm very wiling to grant he's had a LOT of feck ups this season, palace home and away, Bournemouth, West ham away, Chelsea at home are just a few.

All I'm saying is yesterday and Arsenal were actually decent set ups and we played as well as I'd expect given the available players, irrespective of who is coaching us.

Arsenal, yes. Last night, not a chance.

 

[JPRouve]

"Arteta" really became the anchor people attach their "wish & a prayer" hopes to for this Pep Guardiola is my idol. Incredible

Which is not a good idea because Arsenal's progress was linear, from one season to the other. They also didn't start from the same point.

 

[VP89]

Arsenal, yes. Last night, not a chance.

There was nothing wrong with our set up yesterday. We didn't deserve to win but that wasnt down to something incorrect tactically. We made unforced errors and gave big chances - Onana made a couple of poor passes that surrendered an easy attack and Wan Bissaka was essentially a clown on the ball. I'm unsure how thats system or tactically related. There are tons of games where you can hang the blame on the manager, yesterday is a weird one to apply though.

 

[croadyman]

I think it's very negligent if INEOS don't at least make contact for any of Tuchel,Flick,Amorim or De Zerbi this summer. If they can't get any of them then we may as well keep Erik until the likes of Alonso/Nagelsmann are available.

 

[stefan92]

Which is not a good idea because Arsenal's progress was linear, from one season to the other. They also didn't start from the same point.

And on top still won nothing big. Shouldn't you use someone actually winning stuff as a benchmark?

 

[Isotope]

And it took Arteta 4 seasons to have a better season than ETH's first one. It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.

Improvement and development is often not linear. It's clear that this season ETH was too stubborn by ditching the pragmatic approach that he used last season, because that's what suits this squad. Just in the last few games he has seemingly reverted to that now, and we've been playing way better than before. I think he also mentioned it in the Neville interview that he didn't want another season with makeshift tactics in order to get results but halt the real progress.

If ETH stays, I reckon we sign at least two new centre backs and a defensive midfielder for him, and I think that might just help him achieve his possession-based 4-3-3 system that has been a tragic viewing this season. It's important to have CBs and a DM that can play a high defensive line, and cover/defend big spaces and areas on the pitch, and manage transitions if we lose possession. If that happens, I'm confident that we'll actually have a solid, working midfield with Mainoo, a new #6, and Bruno, that won't get emptied every game, we'll start controlling most of our games, and this squad is good enough to get 80+ points in the PL with 4+ new signings. I think there'll be at least 4 significant arrivals, that's why I'm saying 4+. However, if the same struggles continue with the current squad + 4 or more new players, and we manage to avoid injuries as well, then he will be gone probably weeks before Christmas.

Arsenal was Arteta's first club managing, and he started quite young as manager at 37 y.o. You can excuse that he's learning the job, and his capability was unknown in high risk - high reward category. It's probably similar to us giving McKenna the job.

While EtH has been managing clubs for 10 years prior joining United at 52 yo, and United is his 5th club. What we see now is kinda his ceiling.

 

[DJ_21]

We should have kept David Moyes then. We fans know nothing and maybe if he was given several seasons he could have turned out good. Sound logic.

And maybe the fans wanting ETH out know nothing. Most of our former legends have all said stick with ETH because we’ve gotten rid of manager after manager and normally our legends are the ones saying get rid of managers. But Neville, Rooney, even Keane said they’d give ETH another season. What can we lose by doing that? He’s got 1 year of his contract left which means we’d save money by sacking him if that’s what’s needed to happen next year, or if he somehow works miracles next season then he deserves a new contract. INEOS and Ratcliffe are about saving money rather than wasting it hence the reason they’ve made all the staff pay to go to the final this year.

 

[JPRouve]

And on top still won nothing big. Shouldn't you use someone actually winning stuff as a benchmark?

Settle down now, are you demonstrating some sort of expectation?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

And maybe the fans wanting ETH out know nothing. Most of our former legends have all said stick with ETH because we’ve gotten rid of manager after manager and normally our legends are the ones saying get rid of managers. But Neville, Rooney, even Keane said they’d give ETH another season. What can we lose by doing that? He’s got 1 year of his contract left which means we’d save money by sacking him if that’s what’s needed to happen next year, or if he somehow works miracles next season then he deserves a new contract. INEOS and Ratcliffe are about saving money rather than wasting it hence the reason they’ve made all the staff pay to go to the final this year.

1. We've sacked fewer managers than the majority of our peer clubs.

2. Our legends are always saying we should give managers more time. Not sure where you get this idea that they've called for sackings in the past.

3. What do we have to lose? Well, another season, for one. Not all of us are this blasé about continuing to write off entire seasons.

 

[stevoc]

So many of our problems seem to trace back to the decision made at some point last year about wanting to be the best transition team in the world.

Too much is made about how we played after the league cup last year, that was mostly down to fatigue - we never saw the insane chaos football that we've seen this season.

The 'transition' focus seemed to have been made in conjunction with the old hierarchy. Perhaps Wilcox & co. have rightly determined that it's a ludicrous strategy and tasked him with setting up for more control.

It's only been a couple of games, but you're starting to see that come through a little bit more. If he can demonstrate that he can deliver what he new footballing hierarchy want, maybe he will be secure going into next season.

Well we have transitioned from a decent team to an atrocious one in a short period of time.

 

[Redstain]

Which is not a good idea because Arsenal's progress was linear, from one season to the other. They also didn't start from the same point.

Exactly an individual in their managerial infancy as a benchmark for an experienced manager who has won titles in other leagues? Erik by his own admission came to restore United to former glory so that definitively is winning the UCL or the premier league. This can be the only judgement to determine his success as a manager so he has to be measured to that directive consistently approaching 36 months.

Linear progress in management is mandatory at elite clubs, especially when resources (that other clubs are not privy too) are used to provide a foothold in the shaping and development of the team.

Not to mention the financial ramifications to the shareholders and commercial entities when the club doesn't progress from season to season.

Sitting around waiting for things to fall in place as a guarantee (the time argument) will necessitate failure through not being objective enough and thinking critically. United don't have any given right to be successful, they club will have to be the best in class across every department including the coach.

 

[hobbers]

And maybe the fans wanting ETH out know nothing. Most of our former legends have all said stick with ETH because we’ve gotten rid of manager after manager and normally our legends are the ones saying get rid of managers. But Neville, Rooney, even Keane said they’d give ETH another season. What can we lose by doing that? He’s got 1 year of his contract left which means we’d save money by sacking him if that’s what’s needed to happen next year, or if he somehow works miracles next season then he deserves a new contract. INEOS and Ratcliffe are about saving money rather than wasting it hence the reason they’ve made all the staff pay to go to the final this year.

This is all nonsense.

Firstly our former legends have all proven to be absolutely useless at directing what United should do. Christ two of them are directly responsible for prematurely giving Ole a permanent deal. Neville is relentlessly wrong and a giant hypocrite about our managers. Rooney and Keane have never called for previous managers to get sacked either.

What can we lose by wasting a season testing out the hypothesis that ETH might not be a busted flush? Other than a season? Maybe another year of no European football and the substandard budget and recruitment it brings. Another year of the clubs prestige and standards falling.

And you cant let ETH stay without triggering his contract extension, otherwise you're just guaranteeing he gets sacked within the first 6 weeks. That means committing another £6-9m to his bank account, depending on terms. Elite manager money to someone who will struggle to get offered £1m a season for the rest of his career when we eventually sack him.

 

[stevoc]

Huh? Explain yourself now. We've had far more decisions go against us this season than for us so I would argue we could've had more points actually.

We've really only had the Onana massive one in the first game where he should've had the red card that's actually gone in our favour.

We've had penalties not given, had penalties given against us that weren't pens in the weeks prior and after, red cards for stuff other players didn't even get booked.

I think people just have blind hatred towards the manager at the moment which is fine, I'll let them sulk for now but they need to get back on board next season

Very magnanimous of you.

What do people need to get back on board for exactly?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

And maybe the fans wanting ETH out know nothing. Most of our former legends have all said stick with ETH because we’ve gotten rid of manager after manager and normally our legends are the ones saying get rid of managers. But Neville, Rooney, even Keane said they’d give ETH another season. What can we lose by doing that? He’s got 1 year of his contract left which means we’d save money by sacking him if that’s what’s needed to happen next year, or if he somehow works miracles next season then he deserves a new contract. INEOS and Ratcliffe are about saving money rather than wasting it hence the reason they’ve made all the staff pay to go to the final this year.

Ah, the brain-trust have had their say. Neville, Rooney and Keane are all failed managers. That's why they're pundits on Sky now.

Neville picks and chooses what suits his agenda. He was friends with Ole, so he never criticised him too harshly. He defends managers all the time, yet has no issue with showing them the door when it comes to Salford City.

Their opinions don't really matter. They're no different to Goldbridge or any other high profile media personality.

 

[stevoc]

Yes but you're not looking at the big picture. This is who we are at the moment. And if we start sacking the manager all the time we'll just end up another Everton/Watford/Burnley.

 

[Revan]

And maybe the fans wanting ETH out know nothing. Most of our former legends have all said stick with ETH because we’ve gotten rid of manager after manager and normally our legends are the ones saying get rid of managers. But Neville, Rooney, even Keane said they’d give ETH another season. What can we lose by doing that? He’s got 1 year of his contract left which means we’d save money by sacking him if that’s what’s needed to happen next year, or if he somehow works miracles next season then he deserves a new contract. INEOS and Ratcliffe are about saving money rather than wasting it hence the reason they’ve made all the staff pay to go to the final this year.

Most of our legends would say stick with our manager, even if he relegates us three times in two years. Neville in particular would rather shoot himself than say United should sack their manager. While at the same time sack himself 5 Salford managers.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

And it took Arteta 4 seasons to have a better season than ETH's first one. It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.

Improvement and development is often not linear. It's clear that this season ETH was too stubborn by ditching the pragmatic approach that he used last season, because that's what suits this squad. Just in the last few games he has seemingly reverted to that now, and we've been playing way better than before. I think he also mentioned it in the Neville interview that he didn't want another season with makeshift tactics in order to get results but halt the real progress.

If ETH stays, I reckon we sign at least two new centre backs and a defensive midfielder for him, and I think that might just help him achieve his possession-based 4-3-3 system that has been a tragic viewing this season. It's important to have CBs and a DM that can play a high defensive line, and cover/defend big spaces and areas on the pitch, and manage transitions if we lose possession. If that happens, I'm confident that we'll actually have a solid, working midfield with Mainoo, a new #6, and Bruno, that won't get emptied every game, we'll start controlling most of our games, and this squad is good enough to get 80+ points in the PL with 4+ new signings. I think there'll be at least 4 significant arrivals, that's why I'm saying 4+. However, if the same struggles continue with the current squad + 4 or more new players, and we manage to avoid injuries as well, then he will be gone probably weeks before Christmas.

For like the millionth time: He isn't trying to play a possession based 4-3-3 system

 

[JPRouve]

Exactly an individual in their managerial infancy as a benchmark for an experienced manager who has won titles in other leagues? Erik by his own admission came to restore United to former glory so that definitively is winning the UCL or the premier league. This can be the only judgement to determine his success as a manager so he has to be measured to that directive consistently approaching 36 months.

Linear progress in management is mandatory at elite clubs, especially when resources (that other clubs are not privy too) are used to provide a foothold in the shaping and development of the team.

Not to mention the financial ramifications to the shareholders and commercial entities when the club doesn't progress from season to season.

Sitting around waiting for things to fall in place as a guarantee (the time argument) will necessitate failure through not being objective enough and thinking critically. United don't have any given right to be successful, they club will have to be the best in class across every department including the coach.

While I agree with everything you said, I wasn't even thinking about their individual careers. I meant that Arsenal had not finished in the top 4 during the past +3 seasons(15-16). Ten Hag took over a team that had a poor season in 21-22 but finished in the top 4, 3 of the previous 4 seasons. We are not talking about clubs that were in a similar context, United's goal was to reach elite football while Arteta's goal was to go back to regular top 4 finishes.

 

[stevoc]

I once bought a house and then paid a builder to knock it down and build a better one. Now I live in a nice house but what if instead I had sacked him for knocking it down. Would changing builders have achieved anything except delay and a slightly different house?

How do you know Arteta is an outlier? Because he succeeded? That's circular logic.

ETH won't survive the summer, that's not the issue. The issue is that we as a fanbase are going to turn on the next guy and the next guy while this slow process of actually building a house grinds through. Managers see that, so how can you expect anybody good to come?

Why would you sack someone for doing exactly what you'd hired them to do?

I don't imagine Ten Hag was hired to finish 8th.

 

[r0663664]

ETH fxxk up for sure. If Alex is managing this club with the same injuries, he will scrap a few 1-0 wins and a couple of draws. ETH really did us bad and made us a laughing stock of the league, I don't know what is the reason. Never have I seen such a stubborn manager.

 

[lex talionis]

Someone who can do better than an 8th place finish after spending upwards of 400m? There are plenty of options who can do that. All our previous managers did better than that, even the much maligned Moyes. This should be easy.

Yes, it should be "easy". But is it? I would say no to Southgate and Potter, not because I believe they are shit managers but because they are, at least in my mind, not upgrades to ten Hag. Tuchel perhaps, but it's not clear to many that he would be an upgrade or that he's even available. I would say no to Jose, who has a stellar resume but he left United in shambles and I would not have him back. Nor would I have Ole back. I don't think McKenna or Carrick are ready. I do like the cut of the jib of the Palace manager, Oliver Glasner, but I don't know enough about him to know whether he's ready to step up from Selhurst Park to Old Trafford and be the sensation that he has been for Palace.

Who are the "plenty of options"?