Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Berbaclass]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68694702

Cesc Fabregas says give Erik one more window to prove himself. Reminds us that Arteta needed 3/4 years before we saw the team we expected. It’s a fair point. (Can’t embed bbc video as media)

Enjoy the flaming you’re about to get dude. I agree BTW.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

The arguments for keeping Ten Hag are getting weaker and weaker. "New manager could do worse". Like, not even Moyes would do worse. If we think replacing a Moyes level manager is too risky we shouldn't bother with anything then.

Thats on you to think that he is a Moyes level manager which is far from truth.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

2. We've tried a variety of coaches after Fergie and every single one failed. That can't be because every single one is bad.

Well, it's because they didn't perform terribly.
Ole performed pretty well for someone who people think is a limited manager.
Jose performed in a way consistent with his career trajectory over the last 20 years.

 

[Rista]

Thats on you to think that he is a Moyes level manager which is far from truth.

Whatever that truth is, he's just having a worse season than Moyes did. And Moyes' West Ham is on our level this season with clearly inferior players.

 

[George The Best]

With Tuchel seemingly out of the reckoning now, it’s a very big call that INEOS have to make. Of all the ‘available’ managers out there none are particularly inspiring, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if INEOS pul a rabbit out of the hat and make a big statement signing. We will likely know within 2 weeks as they seem to want to press on with preparations for next season. Without any further info that we are party to, my gut feeling is they may stick with EtH.

 

[McTerminator]

Why settle with Klopp and Arteta? They are both losers!

ETH should finish 12th next year, and 13th the year after that. Only then we'd be sure we have the new SAF, a real winner!

Did they blow as much money on overpriced, ineffective players as ETH did?

This game doesn't count. Newcastle is also ravaged by injuries. Isn't that how it works?



FFS not this shit again.

Anyway, good result last night but MF is still too open. Saved by few last ditch tackles.

Try to use some context. C'mon, man.

Both of those managers took over during seasons. They didn't have a pre-season or make any signings of note.

Arteta improved Arsenal defensively compared to the opening 17 PL games of the season under Emery and won The FA Cup by beating City and Chelsea along the way. That's was a good initial 7 months as Arsenal manager.

While his 2nd season was also an 8th place finish, they improved their points tally by 5 points and doubled their GD.

Klopp reached a League Cup final and a Europa League final during his initial 8 months in charge. No pre-season and only 1 loan signing. He reached 76 points during his 2nd season.

ten Hag has gone completely backwards. They were always moving forward. It's not a case of us having a minor drop off i.e. going from 3rd (75 points) to 4th (70 points). We've lost 19 games in all competitions, which is our highest tally post SAF. We have a -GD with one game left to go. We finished rock bottom of our CL group with a -GD. We might only match our lowest ever points tally. We have to beat Brighton to avoid 58 points.

The drop-off this season has been frightening. But the signs were there since last February. The team has been out of form for well over a year now.

Klopp reached a CL final in under 3 years. We aren't even in The CL next season.

We might as well look at the managers who got 7th and 9th in those seasons. Those things have no meaning. At least a reasonable club shouldn't put any meaning to it. The question is, is ETH achieving the internal objectives, if yes, good then check of those objectives have to be adjusted or updated. If ETH doesn't achieve the objectives, look at alternatives and if a good alternative for the position is available, go for it. When the alternative is Southgate, double check if the person putting him on the list is potentially also worthy of replacement.

No you made a mistake, Klopp finished 4th in his first 2 full seasons.

Never had so many replies some of you really hate ETH.

Poster i was responding to said you cannot accept an 8th place finish, but Arteta finished 8th twice and now gets tonnes of plaudits.

I admit, Klopp finished 8th in a part season, but my point it isn’t that black and white.

I don’t know if ETH is worth sticking with. I am inclined to say he is on the basis that if Bruno can change our team that much then Licha can in defence. Really think the injuries are underestimated.

That said, i am hoping Berrada and Ashworth are going to bring back a winning culture so whatever they decide re. The manage i will fully support. It’s been a ling time since I could say that of our appointments so I am happy at that, you lot should be too.

 

[Wilt]

Wonder if Ten Hag would have made his speech if Newcastle won

 

[Flying high]

I don’t know if ETH is worth sticking with. I am inclined to say he is on the basis that if Bruno can change our team that much then Licha can in defence. Really think the injuries are underestimated.

That said, i am hoping Berrada and Ashworth are going to bring back a winning culture so whatever they decide re. The manage i will fully support. It’s been a ling time since I could say that of our appointments so I am happy at that, you lot should be too.

I agree with every word of this.

As much as I think we should keep the manager, if those who've been brought in above him don't like what they're seeing behind the scenes, then I'd be absolutely fine with them deciding to get rid. There's so many parts to being a manager at such a big club. One of the biggest criticisms of ETH has been his signings and he will no longer have to play such a large role in that. He will also, hopefully, be supplied with a squad filled with players capable of playing how he wants. They won't all be the quality that 115 can field, but he won't be reaching for a McTominay, Maguire, Lindelof or AWB as his only available replacements any more, when those players so clearly don't fit what he wants to do.

 

[TsuWave]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68694702

Cesc Fabregas says give Erik one more window to prove himself. Reminds us that Arteta needed 3/4 years before we saw the team we expected. It’s a fair point. (Can’t embed bbc video as media)

The headline for this is "Cesc Fabregas says Ten Hag deserves one more window". Let's see what he says:

Cesc: “we spoke about Man United, and how we struggle to see a real identity in them. We are not there”

Cesc: “I feel for him because he’s had to deal with very difficult situations - behaviours, personalities, attitudes”

Right so he’s had to deal with what managers have to deal with, poor Erik

Cesc: “they signed him good players, he has had injuries and he’s had a lot of ups and downs, but again, unfortunately coaches are judged by results”

Isn't this guy supposed to be arguing Ten Hag's case?

Cesc: “Arteta had 3 full years before we started to see the team that everyone expected to see”

Ah, so Cesc's argument is "Arteta!"

Cesc: "Thierry said you need three, four, five windows to get the team that you want to see"

Ten Hag has had what? 4 windows? Refer to Cesc's first sentence about United not having an identity yet

Cesc: "it's difficult to say, but erm, I'd give him one more window to see if we can get the best out of the team"

What's the difference between this and Vegas?

 

[FrankDrebin]

Give him one more season I say.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Looking at his signings and while the jury is still out on likes of Onana and Mount, Antony transfer really is a big minus for him and argument to sack him. He was his coach at Ajax and knew him as a player, why gamble and make club pay 95m which was close to half of our budget? It's not just a miss but a really expensive miss and it's not easy to get over that one.

 

[stevoc]

Give him one more season I say.

And what would you reasonably expect from that season for him to get a 4th season?

 

[VP89]

And what would you reasonably expect from that season for him to get a 4th season?

(comfortable) Top 4 and a cup run minimum?

 

[hobbers]

2. We've tried a variety of coaches after Fergie and every single one failed. That can't be because every single one is bad.

That is exactly what it is though. Why do we need to keep going through these endless debunked redcafe myths?

What failed United manager has gone on to prove themselves elsewhere? Moyes went back to mid table. LVG retired. Mourinho got sacked by Spurs and Roma. Ole hasn't had a single decent job offer.

ETH will suffer the same fate. Even if he goes back to Ajax he'll struggle, and I suspect fail, to get them back on top.

 

[Laurencio]

(comfortable) Top 4 and a cup run minimum?

So we are basically starting to from scratch? That is essentially what everyone was hoping for in his second season, where his third was going to be the point where it all came together to be part of the title race for a long time 2 and start pushing in the CL knock out stages. Because of the top 3 finish, some hoped for a bit more this season, but he has fallen quite short. What when he fails to do this because of injuries and another season of poor recruitment (still led by him btw, as the new team is barely in the door). Should he be given yet another season?

 

[Plant0x84]

Enjoy the flaming you’re about to get dude. I agree BTW.

Standard for the Caf. Follow the flock or you become fair game, even if your points are reasonable.

 

[VP89]

So we are basically starting to from scratch? That is essentially what everyone was hoping for in his second season, where his third was going to be the point where it all came together to be part of the title race for a long time 2 and start pushing in the CL knock out stages. Because of the top 3 finish, some hoped for a bit more this season, but he has fallen quite short. What when he fails to do this because of injuries and another season of poor recruitment (still led by him btw, as the new team is barely in the door). Should he be given yet another season?

We are starting from scratch irrespective of who the coach is
The answer to the last question you post is no

 

[UnofficialDevil]

2. We've tried a variety of coaches after Fergie and every single one failed. That can't be because every single one is bad.

It can though.
Moyes was nowhere near good enough for a top 4 club, still shows.
Louis Van Ghal was past it when he joined us,was playing a weird defensive 352 in the world.cup prior to us, and has done absolutely nothing after us.
Mourinho was on his way down as manager when he joined us, continued his downward spiral at every other club after us is still rubbish.
Solskjear, Obvioulsy nowhere near good enough for a top 4 everybody knows this.
Carrick, Nowhere near experienced enough for a top 4 club needs no explaining
Ragnick Austria manager at best.


This squad hasn't been managed even once by a top manager since SAF yet.
They were all very bad choices.
Including ten hag

 

[rk4utd]

Looking at his signings and while the jury is still out on likes of Onana and Mount, Antony transfer really is a big minus for him and argument to sack him. He was his coach at Ajax and knew him as a player, why gamble and make club pay 95m which was close to half of our budget? It's not just a miss but a really expensive miss and it's not easy to get over that one.

This is spot on for me. How can he possibly have imagined that such a one footed, averaged paced (by winger standards), aggro little boy would have transitioned to play for United in the cut throat EPL?

The mind still boggles at that decision alone. For that alone I would sack him as he actually saw him play and train every day.

He has compounded the lunacy since by continuing to pick him - and then insisting he has had decent games when at times (depressingly, more often than not) he has been absolute dog shite.

What were you thinking of, Erik?

 

[Plant0x84]

What failed United manager has gone on to prove themselves elsewhere? Moyes went back to mid table. LVG retired. Mourinho got sacked by Spurs and Roma. Ole hasn't had a single decent job offer.

This is such a fecking stupid point. We didn’t hire them based on what they might do after they left United you plum. Moyes had relative success at Everton on a tight budget at the time. LVG is one of the most decorated coaches in the game. Mourinho was incredibly successful at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid. Ole rebuilt Molde and transformed them into a league dominating team - regardless of level. They were successful at various levels in the game before they came to United, which is why they were hired. Simple.

 

[Plant0x84]

We are starting from scratch irrespective of who the coach is
The answer to the last question you post is no

You have changed your mind?

 

[NZT-One]

Never had so many replies some of you really hate ETH.

Just fyi - there isn't much that is so hurtful to a debate than bringing in emotions into a topic. Just because you have different opinions and can't be bothered to provide convincing arguments doesn't mean the others simply "hate". How old are you? 10?

And by the way, I am relatively pro Erik. Even now. But for the reason that there doesn't seem to be a good alternative out there that, to me, is worth rocking the boat for.

 

[Laurencio]

We are starting from scratch irrespective of who the coach is
The answer to the last question you post is no

So what exactly is the point of keeping him another season? He has had 4 windows to build a core to progress us, and what he built has not worked. What about this season give you reason to believe that anything will be better in his third season?

 

[VP89]

You have changed your mind?

So what exactly is the point of keeping him another season? He has had 4 windows to build a core to progress us, and what he built has not worked. What about this season give you reason to believe that anything will be better in his third season?

I interpreted it as what if we go into season 3 and theres poor recruitment etc. and we land up outside of top 4 - apologies.
He hasn't had 4 windows, he's had 2. He didnt have anything to operate with in both Jan windows and was obligated to dive into the loan market. I don't think that's exactly a fair shake at rebuilding the squad (Jan).

Nothing about this season makes me think he deserves a third - but I'm not basing my decision on one season. It's based off 2 seasons and his career before which whilst much lower weighted (Given he had no PL or top league experience) is still not completely irrelevant.

 

[BorisManUtd]

This is spot on for me. How can he possibly have imagined that such a one footed, averaged paced (by winger standards), aggro little boy would have transitioned to play for United in the cut throat EPL?

The mind still boggles at that decision alone. For that alone I would sack him as he actually saw him play and train every day.

He has compounded the lunacy since by continuing to pick him - and then insisting he has had decent games when at times (depressingly, more often than not) he has been absolute dog shite.

What were you thinking of, Erik?

Yeah it's such an expensive mistake and we probably won't be able to sell him for a long time. Arsenal had to terminate Pepe's contract last year to get rid as his contract was expiring in 2024 and they bought him all the way back in 2019. We could be stuck with Antony for years. I don't even dislike Antony, actually appreciate his work rate on the pitch but it was such a big fee...

This is such a fecking stupid point. We didn’t hire them based on what they might do after they left United you plum. Moyes had relative success at Everton on a tight budget at the time. LVG is one of the most decorated coaches in the game. Mourinho was incredibly successful at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid. Ole rebuilt Molde and transformed them into a league dominating team - regardless of level. They were successful at various levels in the game before they came to United, which is why they were hired. Simple.

I think his point is - none of those former managers proved us wrong, they all either went back to their previous level (like Moyes), never got a coaching job at another club again (van Gaal) or went on a further decline (Mourinho). Ole's been out of job for 2,5 years as well. Good analogy when it comes to players is with De Gea's situation - he's been free agent for 10 months now. You could argue if Onana is proper replacement but replacing De Gea was right decision.

 

[McTerminator]

Just fyi - there isn't much that is so hurtful to a debate than bringing in emotions into a topic. Just because you have different opinions and can't be bothered to provide convincing arguments doesn't mean the others simply "hate". How old are you? 10?

And by the way, I am relatively pro Erik. Even now. But for the reason that there doesn't seem to be a good alternative out there that, to me, is worth rocking the boat for.

I responded to 8 posts. I said “some” if that doesn’t apply to you then you shouldn’t be upset.

Amusing that you remove the rest of my post then purport that I haven’t offered up anything in support of my original statement.

Clownish post…

 

[NZT-One]

I responded to 8 posts. I said “some” if that doesn’t apply to you then you shouldn’t be upset.

Amusing that you remove the rest of my post then purport that I haven’t offered up anything in support of my original statement.

Clownish post…

Less amusing than pragmatic. Haven't really read all of it because it started as weak. I mean, you finished with a banger here:

It’s been a ling time since I could say that of our appointments so I am happy at that, you lot should be too.

Takes balls to be as confident as you are claiming that if you are happy others should be too.

Lets not argue any further. If you are happy with the manager, that is great. If others aren't happy, it is the exact same amount of great. Lets see what happens in the summer. Both scenarios are imaginable I guess - if we let him go, Ineos challenge increases by quite a bit because they then have to deliver a good alternative on top of all the other stuff we want them to fix.

 

[gaffs]

We actually didn't play that well.

Newcastle had 55% possession, 21 shots, 6 big chances and hit the post twice. Their xG was 2.48 and it could have reached well above 3.00 had they been awarded a penalty.

We lacked control like we always do, but were fairly clinical. Another chaotic performance.

Agree. We cant control games.

 

[Laurencio]

I interpreted it as what if we go into season 3 and theres poor recruitment etc. and we land up outside of top 4 - apologies.
He hasn't had 4 windows, he's had 2. He didnt have anything to operate with in both Jan windows and was obligated to dive into the loan market. I don't think that's exactly a fair shake at rebuilding the squad (Jan).

Nothing about this season makes me think he deserves a third - but I'm not basing my decision on one season. It's based off 2 seasons and his career before which whilst much lower weighted (Given he had no PL or top league experience) is still not completely irrelevant.

I do not see it with him. The squad is worse off than when he got here, the level of performance is worse across the board and we are setting all kinds of negative records under him. I would normally agree with you that managers deserve time, but this season is really a unique situation. We have been extraordinarily bad.

 

[VP89]

I do not see it with him. The squad is worse off than when he got here, the level of performance is worse across the board and we are setting all kinds of negative records under him. I would normally agree with you that managers deserve time, but this season is really a unique situation. We have been extraordinarily bad.

And I respect your opinion, I don't think its without basis. Maybe I'm being too optimistic about him. Who knows

 

[gaffs]

A lot has been made of Bruno’s impact tonight… one player.

If he can impact us like that on his own in attack then why can our fanbase not appreciate that the absolutely apocalyptic injury crisis in our back line might be the primary issue.

We knew we needed a CB in the summer, we couldn’t get Kim and now our worst fears came to pass, don’t think it invalidates the manager’s achievements in his first season with a more available squad.

I think it is accepted we have a real injury crisis at the back.

For me, the problem is, we were equally wide open at the start of the season. Remember Wolves, Spurs and Forest at the start of the season? They were running through our midfield. Remember Brighton coming and smashing us 3-1 at home in September? Conceding 15 goals in 6 games in the CL?

All before we had the "absolutely apocalyptic injury crisis".

He has not been able to setup the team in a way to control games, be it with or without the ball, regardless of personnel.

 

[Zed 101]

I don't disagree of course, but we aren't working for the club either. We don't know what is happening behind the scenes, but every manager thus far has been an abject failure.

That points more to a structure problem than the manager. Also look at our injuries this season, our entire backline has been decimated so now Casemiro is playing out of position. The medical department takes blame for that, we sent Fernandez out on loan to Benfica because Shaw was supposedly going to be back, Malacia out the entire season.

We have Evans at CB on a year contract, that isn't ETHs decision, that is Murtough. The structure around ETH has a lot of blame this year. I don't think any manager that comes through the doors has all the tools right now.

I think we can easily get our pitchfork and torches out and blame the manager yet again, but I am thinking we have other priorities first.

We were also fecked due to a few officiating problems with penalties awarded against us at one point, we ended up dropping around 12 points because of that, so there are things just not in the control of the manager.

I agree its not perfect tactically, but we are seriously fecked in other departments.

12 points.... I don't think so, and even if that were true other teams could claim likewise so it would pretty much cancel out, that is not even accounting for our being incredibly spawny in loads of matches especially since xmas where we were clearly the worse side and somehow fluked a win... 8th is flattering

Thank feck we do have Evans, he has been brilliant this season and without him we would have been one more CB down all season, I would have Evans over everyone other than a fit Varane and Martinez...

And again the point I made you strip all of it away, everything else, and ETH has played suicide football all season... doesn't matter what players he has had, nothing else matters that is the reason we are where we are

 

[Cantonaaa!]

I’m willing to give him another year since I’m now comfortable with us being shite. It’s quite nice watching games and expecting to lose. Couldn’t handle it if we somehow suddenly were in a title challenge, but…

Is it just me or does ETH lack any form of charisma? Such a massive downgrade on SAF in that regard..He just doesn’t strike me as a good man-management type of person. Compared to the GOAT, Pep and even Klopp, he does not seem to have a personality. This could be fine if he was working in a factory or driving a cab, however his job is to inspire the players and also a fair few million of fans. I don’t know if it’s a language barrier or not, but he couldn’t inspire me to do feck all.

 

[croadyman]

With Tuchel seemingly out of the reckoning now, it’s a very big call that INEOS have to make. Of all the ‘available’ managers out there none are particularly inspiring, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if INEOS pul a rabbit out of the hat and make a big statement signing. We will likely know within 2 weeks as they seem to want to press on with preparations for next season. Without any further info that we are party to, my gut feeling is they may stick with EtH.

Yeah would like to see another under the radar statement signing as we saw with Berrada,however with Tuchel now out of the reckoning I am convinced they just stick with Erik instead

 

[r0663664]

I am firmly Ten Hag out but if there is no one suitable then I will stick to him. I hope there is a couple of things in place. Get in a manager who has a similar style of play as an assistant manager and who is more than willing to replace ETH when he is sack. The new structure will do a post match review with ETH whether we win or lost. They will be there to question his starting XI, his in-game decision and substitution. There will be regular meetings with individuals players without managers to understand if they still trust to our manager. I think this is the only way to stop ETH from sabotaging United just to make a point. Sometimes, I feel this manager is trying to lose to make a point. Playing AWB on the left, Casemiro in defence, favouring Rashford and Antony. We need accountability from everyone at this United, not just the manager.

 

[Sarni]

I find it somewhat interesting that one rather meaningless game against Newcastle, with two teams fighting for the last European spot in a competition they probably don’t even want to be in, is actually swaying a significant number of people on here towards keeping him and is changing the general narrative of this thread quite substantially.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I find it somewhat interesting that one rather meaningless game against Newcastle, with two teams fighting for the last European spot in a competition they probably don’t even want to be in, is actually swaying a significant number of people on here towards keeping him and is changing the general narrative of this thread quite substantially.

Interesting but not surprising anymore. Same thing happened after just about every other win this season.

 

[George The Best]

Yeah would like to see another under the radar statement signing as we saw with Berrada,however with Tuchel now out of the reckoning I am convinced they just stick with Erik instead

Yes, sad situation mate

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Whatever that truth is, he's just having a worse season than Moyes did. And Moyes' West Ham is on our level this season with clearly inferior players.

You simply can't state your opinion as a fact. ETH had a far better season last year, more than what Moyes has ever achieved in his career. So yeah he had a bad season but calling him Moyes level is just bias.

 

[hobbers]

I’m willing to give him another year since I’m now comfortable with us being shite.

Wish those keep voters could be this honest with themselves.