The 6-1 was also due to the fact we were down a man.5-0 is bad. Terrible even. But it's still not 7-0. And that was against arguably the greatest side of modern football. We got smashed by an average Liverpool team. They lost their next 2 games after it.
SAF had been managing the club for almost 25 years by that point. He wasn't going to be sacked for it.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
The majority of those players regularly featured for United under Ole and Rangnick. Some of them under ten Hag too.
It's been a significant turnover already. The list will only get bigger. If ten Hag's signings hadn't been so poor, most of those names would be long forgotten and would have been adequately replaced by now.
Instead, there are question marks over multiple names brought in under ten Hag.
Nobody mentioned anything about a title challenge. Most fans would settle for 2-3 back to back top 4 finishes and some good football, with steady signs of progress.
The Chelsea method of blowing everything up and selling multiple players at once, didn't work out. United have steadily gotten rid of the players over 2-3 summers. That's normal.
It's not just his goals and assists. He's created leading numbers of chances over the last 2 seasons that the rest of our players have wasted. He also presses and runs insane distances, which he never gets credit for. He's always among the leading players in the PL for distance covered. He has the best injury record of any player I've ever seen. The last 2 games are the first games I can remember him being unavailable for us, which is absolutely absurd. There is no player in the world more reliable in that regard. He's been our 1 consistent performer while everyone else in the squad has gone through ups and downs. Despite this, all he gets on here and from the fanbase in general is that "he whines too much".
With regards to Coutinho, Liverpool were in such a better place in terms of their squad in 2018 than we are right now. Honestly, right now, I think we're more likely to have a weaker squad next season than at the start of this season.
Hope you're right about him staying, but I don't think you are. When the reports came out about only Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Dalot and Onana not being for sale, I was confused why Bruno wasn't mentioned but I thought it was probably just bs. Then Bruno had an interview not long after which really raised alarm bells with me where he didn't commit to staying at the club when asked. When it was just a Saudi club being interested, I wasn't that worried because I don't think Bruno's the type to move just for money at this point in his career. However, now I'm seeing Bayern, Inter and Barcelona linked, it's clear to me clubs have been alerted there's a genuine possibility of him going. I expect we'll see more links in the coming weeks and particularly after the FA Cup.
If we hadn't won the league cup a week before, and were sitting comfortably in the top four, that 7-0 may well have triggered him getting sacked. He was just fortunate it came on the back of that cup win and 8 wins in the previous 11 league games, only losing narrowly away at Arsenal.
And crazy thinking back to that being his best spell at the club, 8 league wins in 11. Now we're at 2 league wins in 11.
And crazy thinking back to that being his best spell at the club, 8 league wins in 11. Now we're at 2 league wins in 11.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 17,359
- Supports
️
I’m a scout because I can put my own personal views to one side, tolerate and understand other views and appreciate when they are presented well in line with the CAF rules and therefore are like worthy. I’ve given more than my fair share of likes to people who definitely want Ten Hag gone and even did one this morning.
Being a scout doesn’t mean I can’t have my opinion, and I don’t claim to hide my views, I try my best to explain them and appreciate others too. If you don’t like the system or myself and believe me to be doing a poor job (for free) then perhaps you should get in touch with the moderation team for them to look into it.
I’m encouraged to engage with members particularly newbies to see can they debate a point and do so without being rude, disrespectful or crass. And usually when they can I’ll throw a like their way.
I’ll also give members a chance to clarify their position even if they came across initially rude (see my response yesterday just to an emoji).
I have my own views. I can also recognise a well structured argument and enjoy hearing others views otherwise I wouldn’t hang out in this thread.
Again if you have an issue with anything I’ve said or done the reporting system exists but this does feel a little personal vendetta because you dislike my opinion? Well leave it at that so as not to disrupt the thread but my PMs are open if needed.
For what it’s worthy I also appreciate the way in which you’ve presented this and if I could give you a like that was worth anything (even despite my terrible bias
I’d be sending one your way)Im actually coming round to the idea maybe it is better to just have a clean cut with absolutely no question marks hanging over was it the structure, or the manager or both.
Kind of like at the end of the Phantom Menace when they are at Qui Gon’s funeral and can’t decided if the master or the apprentice has been killed. Is Ten Hag our Darth Maul? Was he the victim of the system and could he recover from his injuries and wreck havoc to his foes in future?
Yeah I rewatched Star Wars recently…
You clearly rate Bruno very highly. I've been praying for him to be sold for years. The duality of man. Haha.
Inter often pick up players on free transfers and don't really spend big money on just one player.
Bayern already signed a 30 year old in Kane last summer. I doubt they spend the majority of their summer budget on one player again. They already have Musiala who is one of the best young attacking midfielders around. They need to add to their squad depth.
Barcelona have enough financial issues to navigate. I doubt they would want to add another 30+ year old after signing Gündoğan last year. Plus, Lewandowski might stay another season.
Yeah...no.
That isn't how you do it.
The new "manager" should be a dispensable figure in that transition, not someone to be "spared" from it.
Hm...
Probably.
He clearly ain't Sidious (but then - who is? Avram? Joel? They're too small time, I feel. Has to be someone else pulling the strings behind 'em...
We could end up bringing the right person in under an untenable position (which the fans probably wouldn't realise at the time because most won't consider the impact losing so many players including Bruno would have on the team's quality).
I don't know. I'm getting a gut feeling the last week that next season's going to be really bad. Maybe the amount of changes is why INEOS seem to still be open to ETH staying, since they're expecting a tough season and want the new manager to have a proper chance.
Well i disagree at how significant the club turnover has been for the reasons i stated, but as to your other points , we had two seasons of Ole and Jose reaching back to back CL qualification and it failed miserably when they tried to take the next step. EtH is just ahead of schedule in this cycle of failure.
And as for Chelsea, most people including their fans would acknowledge they're a ridiculous club at the moment. I would suggest looking at Arteta's first line up for Arsenal compared to this season or Klopp's first Liverpool team compared to their champions league/premier league winning team to see what a good rebuild can achieve.
It's also not a question of being toxic towards the players either, some of them seem great guys. Maguire this season has played well and has conducted himself with a lot of class, but it's about being honest and appraising their ability to be part of where we want to be.
Good point. Bringing in a load of new players while shipping some of will mean the first season or 2 is moulding the squad together. However we need ETH to be able to coach and play a certain way which isn’t what we’re seeing right now. So it could be a case of new manager, fresh start and moulding the squad and playing a set style for the first year and then building on it the year after.
5-0 is not 7-0.
Can you find a 7-0? No? Can you guess why not?
There should be Red Lines.
Italian managerial legend, Fabio Capello, has hit out at Brighton boss Roberto de Zerbi, claiming he is “third tier”.
De Zerbi joined the Premier League side in September 2022, leading them to a sixth-place finish and the semi-finals of the FA Cup.
But the Seagulls have struggled under him this season.
They currently sit in 10th place with two fixtures left.
Brighton were also eliminated from the FA Cup in the fifth round, knocked out of the Carabao Cup in their first game and failed to get past the last 16 in the Europa League.
“I would put De Zerbi in the third tier.
“There is a lot of talk about him as one of the top coaches because Guardiola sponsors him, but this year he is tenth or eleventh in the standings.
“What has he won in his career? Let’s look at his CV: he has only won one cup in Ukraine,” Capello told Sky Sports.
De Zerbi joined the Premier League side in September 2022, leading them to a sixth-place finish and the semi-finals of the FA Cup.
But the Seagulls have struggled under him this season.
They currently sit in 10th place with two fixtures left.
Brighton were also eliminated from the FA Cup in the fifth round, knocked out of the Carabao Cup in their first game and failed to get past the last 16 in the Europa League.
“I would put De Zerbi in the third tier.
“There is a lot of talk about him as one of the top coaches because Guardiola sponsors him, but this year he is tenth or eleventh in the standings.
“What has he won in his career? Let’s look at his CV: he has only won one cup in Ukraine,” Capello told Sky Sports.
I mean, I’m all for adding some perspective since people tend to go overboard with praise. But bashing the manager of Brighton and Sassuolo for not wining anything is a bit bizarre, isn’t it?
He coaches a team that operates on a negative net transfer spend, by selling their star players every year. Trossard, Caicedo, MacAllister, Cucurella, Bissouma, Maupay just in the last 20 months. He’s not having a great season but he’s having a season on par with Brighton’s relative squad strength in the league.
Yes, but would a top tier manager stay so long at clubs on that level? Shouldn't he be getting bigger jobs by now?
He's been at Brighton for 21 months..
Yes, but would a top tier manager not move to a bigger club than Brighton at this point of their career?
To be clear I do think that he is a(very) good manager, I just don't see him in the same tier as people like Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti.
So I think I get Capello's point and agree with him
Getting the head coach job at a big club is dependent on who you know. Pep did not get the Barca job on managerial merit. He got it, like Xavi now, because he is a club legend. Ole did not get the job at United because of his stellar managerial CV.
Also Klopp was at Meinz 05 at the same age as De Zerbi is now. Not any better than De Zerbi.
It’s ok to say he’s not Klopp or Pep. He might never be. But not winning trophies at this stage is still a bizarre criticism.
There’s no need for this. We all have different opinions
injuries or not, this team has looked like shit the entire year trying to do whatever system EtH seems to think will work. Would be a huge blow towards the idea of things changing if he comes back. At no point this year have we looked great for an entire game, let alone a stretch of games. We have seen enough of the system from EtH, and it just wont work on this level.
Injuries have ravaged our squad
The old regime's vision perhaps didn't align with Ten Hag's?
I'm so torn right now. Do we give Ten Hag another season (that's hopefully injury free) under a new regime with the likes of Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada, highly regarded names in the modern game?
Starting to feel like maybe let him continue until his contract runs out.
The old regime's vision perhaps didn't align with Ten Hag's?
I'm so torn right now. Do we give Ten Hag another season (that's hopefully injury free) under a new regime with the likes of Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada, highly regarded names in the modern game?
Starting to feel like maybe let him continue until his contract runs out.
He was the signed from their vision.
Injuries are a factor, but the unwillingness to make us more compact and use a more stable system is a bigger factor.
There is nothing that would justify Ten Hag staying for another year. It didn't work out, it doesn't work out, it won't work out. Where we go from here is obviously unknown. What is certain though is further decline if this man keeps his job.
This season has been unbearable for many reasons. We've been through embarrassment, humiliation, weakness and a total lack of direction. I don't have high hopes for the new "regime" (it really isn't), and the last years have killed the enthusiasm about the club. Not the losses, not the seasons bring dire.
It's the downward spiral that eats up the passion. As if no one noticed that we were heading in the wrong direction for a decade and suddenly we look back and realize that we don't even know where we are right now. Good, bad, mediocre, or all at once. Injuries, bad luck, who cares?
I consider his presence toxic, his words delusional and his outlook disturbing.
Just let it end.
This season has been unbearable for many reasons. We've been through embarrassment, humiliation, weakness and a total lack of direction. I don't have high hopes for the new "regime" (it really isn't), and the last years have killed the enthusiasm about the club. Not the losses, not the seasons bring dire.
It's the downward spiral that eats up the passion. As if no one noticed that we were heading in the wrong direction for a decade and suddenly we look back and realize that we don't even know where we are right now. Good, bad, mediocre, or all at once. Injuries, bad luck, who cares?
I consider his presence toxic, his words delusional and his outlook disturbing.
Just let it end.
Do you really think the new regime are going to sign players that Ten Hag wants? Look at the players he’s signed or wanted to sign, none of them are Manchester United players. He’s got absolutely nothing out of the players he apparently doesn’t want, imagine the damage he could do with a bunch of more players he doesn’t want? The guy openly said he can’t play football with De Jong, and he definitely isn’t getting De Jong so what’s the point of keeping him past the next couple of games.
He’s done. All aboard the McKenna train
I get your point. The thing is there's no obvious candidates out there to replace him. I remain hopeful we can turn a corner with Ten Hag or someone else in the hot seat come next season. Right now I'm holding onto a sliver of hope that happens.
Yes I know. I wasn't saying he shouldn't be a scout because he has a different opinion. I meant how can he look at the good posts by noobs that he doesn't agree with and give them a like or whatever a scout does.
Well he will probably do what others do, not like people in a subject where he is too involved OR he can still like someone for how they are writing, debating and behaving even though he may not agree with him. For the record I don’t agree with his opinion but I know that he’s a fair guy and lets a lot of insults slide. So cut him some slack
If there’s a suitable replacement then he’ll go, but the idea is we set up a high level football structure and don’t let Erik pick and choose the players he wants. Ashworth, Berrada, Wilcox, these will define the direction of football, style, the profile of player, transfer policy. The manager will be involved but not like before. So Ten Hag either works with these players and applies the system, or he’ll be replaced by a manager who can. It’s not like there’s a Klopp or a Pep available to manage us and who we need to move fast to acquire them lest a rival snap them up. So there’s no immediate urgency to sack him as far as I’m concerned. It’ll take multiple transfer windows to rebuild the squad anyway.
Haven't you been reading this forum?
Because there is absolutely, 100% guaranteed, no better alternative out there.
Despite the fact that we've actually started hiring some decent footballing brains, not one of them should be expected to have any idea of who could be a better manager than EtH.
Given ETH’s insistence that this season isn’t his farewell to United , I’d be inclined to assume that he has been given assurances of another season, perhaps a vote of confidence by the board behind closed doors. Just from his manner in the latest press conference, he seemed to be talking about the future without any visible unease or hesitation. Or it could just be great PR management.. who knows!
Was the goal an individual error?
Were the tactics that different?
I‘ve got a point.
It feels pointless not to sign the players he wants though because that is a huge readymade excuse for him before we even start. How can you expect him to get results with players he had never wanted?
Doesn't seem to do much with the players he did want. Maybe we'll try the other way where he just shuts up and coaches the players given to him.
He was forced to sign all these players.
It's pretty funny actually how people keep saying "it's not his squad" and "he didn't get all the players he wanted" but somehow insist the way to go forward is to keep Ten Hag and have new people in charge buy players for him.
It’s a recipe for disaster. We will have to keep him forever if that’s the case because we will never be able to judge him.
- Status