Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I was 100% behind ETH until Monday night.
I just don't see how he can continue.
If the team were playing in a way that we could see some sort of pattern or method and we were just getting beat because the other team were better, then I can accept getting beat.
But the utter car crash on Monday night was the final nail, they really looked like they had no plan, strategy, or even looked like professional footballers in some CASE's....
4-0 flattered us.
I just don't see how he can continue.
If the team were playing in a way that we could see some sort of pattern or method and we were just getting beat because the other team were better, then I can accept getting beat.
But the utter car crash on Monday night was the final nail, they really looked like they had no plan, strategy, or even looked like professional footballers in some CASE's....
4-0 flattered us.
Still living on past glories, I think. But if this were to continue, eventually we would drop.
He is lucky that he is still here. It seems that Ineos Team is less decisive than Glazer's team in sacking manager. Under Glazer, once it's mathematically impossible to finish Top 4 the manager will be sacked especially in his 2nd season and 400M spent.
So the only way he can get results if he has a fully fit squad? We need a manager that can take responsibility and admit faults when things don’t go well, not defending himself continuously out of self-interest. How does that explain the lack of ability to score goals against bottom-half sides since most of our attackers have been fit ? Has he shown even a moderate inclination to admit his tactics aren’t working? It’s all the referees, injuries or the players. If we have another season of injuries and don’t do well, will he need to be given a 5 year contract so that we can hope for a season without many injuries and his master plan to succeed?
It's largely about brand visibility and worth of the club's assets, Old Trafford, both training centers and the squad are worth a lot of money, on field success matters but it's not the . As an example for a very long time the Knicks were the most valuable NBA franchise in spite of being largely useless and having arguable the worst owner in american sport, but they are THE franchise representing New York and they are linked to one of if not the most iconic arena in the World in Madison Square Garden.
Not when we have an FA Cup Final to come.
Good thing you bought this up, because it exposes ETH even more.
Liverpool 2021 Games missed by players
Diogo Jota – 21
Virgil Van Dijk - 45
Joe Gomez – 39
Joel Matip – 27
Jordan Henderson – 17
James Milner - 13
Naby Keita - 23
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain – 20
Fabinho – 11
Thiago – 21
Finished 3rd.
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Hopefully worst case he will be sacked after FA Cup. But I am hoping he is sacked before FA Cup for us to stand a better chance of winning.
I never believed for a second that we were going to sack him before the final. I assume he's gone after that though.
Maybe they don't want someone else embarrassed playing Arsenal, another poor performance may mean the end of E.T.H. Steve may fancy 3 games especially if some players are returning from injury, there is always fading hope.
Liverpool have fielded a defence/back four consisting of Alisson, Robertson, van Dijk, Matip and TAA 3 times in The PL this season.
van Dijk missed 3 PL games in a row because of a red card
Bradley has missed 18 PL games through a combination of special leave (father died) and injuries
Bajetic has missed 29 PL games because of an injury
C.Jones has missed 11 PL games through suspension (3 games) and injuries
Szoboszlai missed 5 PL games because of injury
Salah missed 6 PL games from a combination of AFCON and injury
Jota missed 15 games through supension (1 game) and injuries
And they're just The PL games that they've missed. Add in the injuries that I mentioned in the previous post and you get a substantial injury list.
Some fans are trying to blame the injuries on everything.
I have zero faith in Ineos if they dont sack him.
Fair with our marketing prowess although sure diminishing as time goes by but are our assets worth that much? All the big London clubs should out value us by the virtue of having real estate there and clubs like Madrid and bayern with their state of the art stadiums should as well, Madrid even has the benefit of being in the capital.
1. Tyrell Malacia (35)
2. Amad (27)
3. Mason Mount (23)
4. Lisandro Martinez (22)
5. Kobbie Mainoo (17)
6. Casemiro (17)
7. Luke Shaw (16)
8. Anthony Martial (12)
9. Aaron Wan-Bissaka (10)
10. Victor Lindelof (10)
11. Christian Eriksen (8)
12. Rasmus Hojlund (8)
13. Sofyan Amrabat (6)
14. Harry Maguire (6)
15. Jonny Evans (5)
16. Raphael Varane (5)
I was a bit surprised Shaw is so low. Liverpool are better than us to be fair.
These stats are wrong actually
its from the end of February.Those are just league games, the Liverpool list you're replying to must be all games, or Van Dijk wouldn't have 45.
Malacia has missed the whole season, so he'll have 50 on his own.
They were out of date
Ten Hag has now reached 50 away games in charge, so a look at his record in all competitions.
Win - 23
Draw - 8
Loss - 19
Goals scored - 74 (1.48 per game)
Goals conceded - 83 (1.66 per game)
In terms of opponents;
Win - Southampton, Leicester, Sheriff, Omonia Nicosia, Everton (2), Real Sociedad, Fulham (2), Wolverhampton (2), Nottingham Forest (3), Leeds, Real Betis, Bournemouth, Burnley, Sheffield United, Wigan, Newport, Aston Villa, Luton
Draw - Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Barcelona, Tottenham, Galatasaray, Liverpool, Brentford, Bournemouth
Loss - Brentford, Manchester City (2), Aston Villa, Arsenal (2), Liverpool, Newcastle (2), Sevilla, Brighton, West Ham (2), Tottenham, Bayern Munich, Copenhagen, Nottingham Forest, Chelsea, Crystal Palace
I think it's worth pointing out amongst those wins, we beat Sociedad 1-0 but needed victory by 2+ to finish above them. The Betis result was also slightly irrelevant with a 4-1 lead from the 1st leg. 16 of these victories have been by 1 goal. Of the 7 we have won by 2+, 4 of them came in cup competitions against Sheriff, Nottingham Forest, Wigan and Newport.
From the drawn games we conceded last minute equalisers at Palace and Brentford, whilst giving away 2-goal leads at Spurs and Galatasaray.
In the defeats, 12 of the 19 have seen at least 3 goals conceded. 3 (5 times), 4 (5), 6 (1) and 7 (1). In 10 of those 19 we have lost by at least 2 goals.
If you want to take out cup matches;
Played - 37
Win - 15
Draw - 6
Loss - 16
Goals scored - 46 (1.24 per game)
Goals conceded - 63 (1.70 per game)
Points per game - 1.38 (26 over a season)
Win - 23
Draw - 8
Loss - 19
Goals scored - 74 (1.48 per game)
Goals conceded - 83 (1.66 per game)
In terms of opponents;
Win - Southampton, Leicester, Sheriff, Omonia Nicosia, Everton (2), Real Sociedad, Fulham (2), Wolverhampton (2), Nottingham Forest (3), Leeds, Real Betis, Bournemouth, Burnley, Sheffield United, Wigan, Newport, Aston Villa, Luton
Draw - Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Barcelona, Tottenham, Galatasaray, Liverpool, Brentford, Bournemouth
Loss - Brentford, Manchester City (2), Aston Villa, Arsenal (2), Liverpool, Newcastle (2), Sevilla, Brighton, West Ham (2), Tottenham, Bayern Munich, Copenhagen, Nottingham Forest, Chelsea, Crystal Palace
I think it's worth pointing out amongst those wins, we beat Sociedad 1-0 but needed victory by 2+ to finish above them. The Betis result was also slightly irrelevant with a 4-1 lead from the 1st leg. 16 of these victories have been by 1 goal. Of the 7 we have won by 2+, 4 of them came in cup competitions against Sheriff, Nottingham Forest, Wigan and Newport.
From the drawn games we conceded last minute equalisers at Palace and Brentford, whilst giving away 2-goal leads at Spurs and Galatasaray.
In the defeats, 12 of the 19 have seen at least 3 goals conceded. 3 (5 times), 4 (5), 6 (1) and 7 (1). In 10 of those 19 we have lost by at least 2 goals.
If you want to take out cup matches;
Played - 37
Win - 15
Draw - 6
Loss - 16
Goals scored - 46 (1.24 per game)
Goals conceded - 63 (1.70 per game)
Points per game - 1.38 (26 over a season)
To be fair a lot of teams have struggled with injuries this season. Chelsea have missed important players and Newcastle too. Its a weird year for injuries across the board. I'd say Newcastle and Chelsea are a fair comparison and we shouldn't finish behind them.
Should have been sacked after Palace.
Though "zero" is a bit much, I'd be more inclined to lose faith in them for this if there were a really standout candidate out there who they ignored. I don't think there is. Tuchel is almost certainly the best manager who will be attainable. But there are question marks. I think there will be a better pool of managers to choose from in 2025
Some perspective. Such a big let down ETH has been.
I admire your optimism.
There are not indecisive. The poeple who can properly assess and replace ETH, people who will take ultimate responsibility for the next manager's results are not at the club yet. I've seen this at my local club- out-going CEO changed the 1st team coach days before leaving the post. the new regime gave new coach 2 months and sacked him.
The club was just partly taken over. It's based on how much Ratcliffe was willing to pay for 25% of the club.
Been the case all season to be fair.
For United brand visibility and recognition do a lot of heavy lifting and it's not going to diminish quickly because United is still a relevant club that plays in the higher tier of the most popular league in the world. Actually in that domain I should have mentioned the Yankees and the Canadiens, the latter being the perfect example, the Canadiens have been painfully average for a long time and without any real NHL superstar but they are still a big name and very recognizable. And in the topic of the NHL the franchise with the highest value is the Maple Leafs and they haven't won a thing since the 60s, they have gone beyond the first round of the playoffs twice in 20 years but they are the team of the biggest city, are an original six team and they have a rivalry with the most successful franchise in NHL history.
Now you are right about real estate, if it was the main factor London clubs would be at the top but most them do not have relatively small brand values and they don't have the fanbase that goes with it. That's why Liverpool and United are consistently high, Liverpool were still massive before Klopp in spite of their relative lack of success.
Bruh i got tix to the Los Angeles game…
Throwing out Liverpool injury list with no context and comparison United stats is pointless.
Regardless, Do you honestly think a settled squad , that’s already had significant success (multiple CL finals league winning) with a settled manager for many years , having savage injuries is the same as an unsettled squad/club , with a manager not even there 2 years, who took over a squad that “needed heart surgery”, and had not shown any sort of consistency in over a decade?
Some of you guys act like ETH has been at the club for years. For all the “sack him sooner” rants , it’s not like he’s been a decade here. 20 months he’s here and you think getting a crazy injury crisis 12 months into those 20 is the same as a crazy injury crisis 6 years into managing a team?!
No issue with people absolutely wanting ETH gone, I’ve an issue with alot of people creating false narratives and just trying to make things look worse then they are on some level. It’s a sh/8t season. It’s not good enough. ETH is probably gone soon. But some of you need a bit of reality check. Not all our issues have been him and not all them are easily comparable with far better run clubs.
Good idea, we could just demote him and let him do something at Carrington for the summer whilst the team and our new coach head to the US. It'll save us the payout!
I’m not sure his former employer is going to want him hanging around the place during preseason
Tbh i prefer fred the red as manager next season instead.
True, you did not say his comment was garbage, you questioned his sense, which is the same thing. I wouldn’t say your comment was crazy disrespectful, but I doubt you’d have the balls to say it to his face. If that’s the marker you’re in the red.
I wouldn’t say my posts were unhinged, more incredulous.
There’s plenty of examples where coaches maintain their abilities to coach for 30-40 years. Insinuating he’s a poor coach because it’s been 20 years since he last coached Scholes is a pretty flimsy point. No respect for authority or knowledge is sort of a nihilistic view of life.
The funny thing is, mcclaren actually delegated coaching to ten hag when the latter was his number 2. He saw he was better than him in that regard, he said it himself in his own words.
If Owen and Scholes did their job properly, they'd know. But they're riding off their ex player status and chatting absolute bollocks on live TV. Their view in football is also outdated. What worked for them doesn't apply today, they suffer from a time series bias. Overall they are a pair of clowns in a punditry capacity and that Mcclaren segment summed it up.
It's astounding how we have anyone here putting stock into their view.
If he tries to stay at Carrington beyond the cup final, security will have him escorted from the premises
Sorry I always go in too hard in my postsI want it on record that I didn't go that far.
Sorry I always go in too hard in my posts
You made good points. And it comes back to my initial point, you have question their sense by that I meant that you have to question their thinking, they are drawing conclusions based on very old experiences and the context of these experiences shouldn't even lead you to these conclusions unless you assume that SAF and Eriksson who are both excellent coaches, had no input in the training sessions they delegated to McClaren. Then you have to consider that coaches and managers evolve and decline over time and we are 20 years removed from their point of reference.
Maybe McClaren is the best coach in 2024 but I will take that with a massive handful of salt.
So what?
EtH possibly being an ever better coach than McClaren doesn't change at all that McClaren himself can be a brilliant coach.
And I think for most of us it appears obvious that United has a massive problem with open spaces that can be attacked. Which is why they specifically mentioned McClaren's training sessions about exactly this. Their conclusion that he has no impact whatsoever on the team however is indeed quite a lot of conjecture as it is possible that McClaren is convinced of EtH's approach to deliberately not cover these spaces.
If that's true than there is little hope in making him an interim, but if it's true that he is sidelined and being prevented from giving such input to the team, than he is indeed a valid option to fix some of the most critical problems now.
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