He's pretty bad. I guess the one thing he has is that the football is pretty 'contained', because he takes so few risks, ergo you're always going to be in with a chance if you have the better players. But as a tactician beyond that, negligible. As coach, no particular evidence he improves players. I think Graham Potter has a lot to prove re. 'big club' management under pressure, following Chelsea, but am certain you'd get all the 'good' parts of Southgate plus more competent coaching and at least a slightly better style, whether for England or United. Neither of them would be my choice, but Southgate would be a particularly weird pick, setting aside his chummishness with Ashworth and other members of SJR's circle, and his guarantee of being a 'company man'.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Thomas Tuchel or Gareth Southgate?
We'll know soon soon enough if Sir Jim has actually been watching football
We'll know soon soon enough if Sir Jim has actually been watching football
I don't buy the Southgate links at all. He's been on record saying he won't be in talks with any club before the Euros and Ineos won't wait until the Euros is over. If he leaves, England I think he takes a break and gets back into club football mid next season at the earliest.
Like you say the details connected to Southgate are loose - it's probably more of a case that it links us closer to Ireola or De Zerbi rather than Southgate.
Not really, it's the same FA who appointed Allardyce. They just haven't got any better ideas. He's done well to galvanise the group, but he's literally the only manager across the England set up that hasn't won anything. The only negative story is the whole Ben White scenario, but that seems to be with Holland, under Southgate, rather than directly with him.
To me he doesn't fit with what I know of Brailsford. First he is too old and doesn't have a track record of success, if I look at the way he managed Team Sky or INEOS grenadier, he has relied on young promising sporting/assistant managers or successful older sporting managers. And he seems to have done something similar with Nice.
If I was to guess on who Brailsford would favor, it would be a young promising manager that is either within the club, has worked for the club, is on an ascending curve or a manager that has lots of experience at the highest level. So people like Mckenna, Carrick, Potter, Motta or Tuchel with Potter at the bottom of that list.
The France game was the only "even "game I've seen. I was at the Euro final and we got played off the park and toyed with for a solid 70 minutes in our own back park. We were also a one on one scuff form Muller away from being rattled by an absolute shite Germany side. We were shite against Croatia when we were KOed of the WC in 2018. We were lucky to scrape past Colombia on penalties in fact.
In our Euro run to the final we underwhelmed in a few games, the group stages particularly.
Gareth Southgate is blessed with one of the most talented squads in the world and chronically makes us look too pragmatic, or has us scrapping against sides we should be cruising against. And whenever he's hit an actual test he's failed badly.
He's absoltue shit. Even if he won the Euros this summer, he's still shit. Navigating cup games is generally very luck based, there's nothing we can extrapolate from it.
A completely different question. Based on what you see, is McKenna good in rotating the squad match to match?
Much prefer a young upcoming manager
I hope you're right, that would be the way I would go.
I'd add Iraola to the mix, especially if he has another solid season with Bournemouth.
That's also my preference in general, though I don't know if it's the best move for their first appointment. I think that Tuchel would be a safer hand for a couple of seasons while Wilcox and Ashworth try to put everything in place. The other options that I would entertain are Valverde or Mancini.
I'm only guessing but I really don't see how Southgate would fit with anything Brailsford has done in the past. The only thing that makes with the link to Southgate is his relationship with Ashworth.
Because it’s a forum and a fan base full to the brim of YouTube fans where they expect everything done at the click of a button.
mentalists the lot of em.
Boom boom…
What WILL it take for Ten Hag to be sacked?!
Still 4 games to play and the worst goals conceded record since 1979.
5-0 loss to Arsenal at home?
Heavy losses in our other remaining games?
Still 4 games to play and the worst goals conceded record since 1979.
5-0 loss to Arsenal at home?
Heavy losses in our other remaining games?
That is a lot of conjecture. There is nothing that indicates there is a broken work relationship there, it is completely made up.
Is he senile?
Propah Brexit. The man schooled Southgate with a bunch of low-quality players, has actually won the PL and has an idea how to implement a style.
Miles above the current fraud and the waistcoat fraud.
He won't be my go-to guy but this is just a foolish position.
Good manager.
Would be the equivalent (factoring in where Dyche is and where United are respectively) of the Moyes appointment in 2013. Moyes either had or exceeded Dyche's best club season, again even factoring in relative resources, about 6 times with Everton before joining Utd. And we saw where that went...
Ah ok. Thanks.
Is ETH a bit like Ole where there both very hands on in training? What’s the point having coaches if you don’t use them correctly? Owen and Scholes are bigging up McClaren and reckon he has nothing to do with training as he’s one of the best coaches they’ve had. Look at McKenna now… he was criticised also under Ole but again it was Oles methods.
Yes! I’d say it’s one of his strengths. Our two central midfielders are both key players (‘first name on the team sheet’ style), but also both 32. McKenna has had to find the optimal way to make use of them and he’s done a great job. I’d add Tuanzebe to that too. It’s really only in the last month that Axel has got strong and fit enough to play Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday etc. He’s been rotated in and out all season and I don’t think he’s had an injury, which given his record is a great achievement. He also does a decent amount of in-game management with the forwards. He’ll normally sub 2 of our 4 forward players on the hour mark. We’ve scored a crazy amount of late goals this season and I think that is part of it. No one wants to come on at 87 minutes and be expected to find a winner, but the subs knowing they’ve got 30 mins plus injury time seems to keep them really engaged even if they’re not starting.
It is hard to imagine a result and performance where they will finally pull the trigger. Palace are happy to stay up and managed to ragdoll us. They still think he deserves more games as manager for Manchester United.
Agree that he's better than both, but the main reason (aside from Southgate) that Italy won that final was because their midfield was just...better than England's in terms of technique and smarts. They took back control (there's your Brexit link!) of that game 10 minutes in and had England on a string of most of it, albeit without having a ruthless end product.
Don’t even think he’s anywhere near Moyes pre-United level.
Would you be able to integrate a still fairly promising but 'raw' midfielder who we haven't been able to find an optimal position for, say for a season on-loan and subbing in for the aforementioned 'mature' midfielders? We're trying to place Hannibal, since he's not really ready for the 1st team now, if at all, and the Sevilla sale the club had lined up seems to have fallen through. There IS a player there (aggressive, some decent technical ability, if in need of coaching re/. decision-making; bits of flair; was very highly sought after when we bought him) and the speculation was McKenna might be able to polish him.
For some reason, reading that made me think that he is closer to Curbishley than Moyes.
It’s not going to happen… they‘ve made their mind up but aren’t going to give the media easy headlines for days and days as we build to the cup final.
It’ll happen a week or so after the cup final.
Just wondering what peoples tactics would be here as Ten Hag hasn't a notion. Ole played counter attacking football but did have better forward options with Cavani Sancho Greenwood and rashford with Bruno in behind with Fred and Scott doing the dirty work. They were heavily criticezd but did a job. I'd probably play a 4-3-3 high line and overwhelm the opposition with smart passes out to Garnacho and Anthony with overlapping full backs with Fred and Scott to take the brunt for them. Just wondering what you think the best way is for them to setup, Bruno is also an option as an false nine with three center midfielders in Casemerio, Mainoo and Scott.
I was speaking to someone about this earlier. I’d love to see him come regardless of his loan spell in Spain which I gather is not going overly well. For a start we are going to need fighters, players who don’t give up, and I think it’s safe to say Hannibal doesn’t like giving up! The two Premiership academy loanees we’ve had this season both started out looking like talented youngsters, and ended up having a material effect on the outcome matches, which is, I guess, the holy grail of youth development. Turning potential into actual end product.
It’s cos he’s so tall.
I'd be all for it over Southgate.
This isn’t entirely in defence of ETH, as I believe his stubbornness tactically will ultimately get him sacked, but people simply can’t dismiss the injury record this season. Questions need to be raised as to WHY it’s as bad as it is, but the fact remains it’s an unprecedented level of player absence.
A few years ago when Van Dijk and Gomez got injured, Liverpool had a spell with Fabinho at the back, breaking up their first choice midfield, and they simply weren’t the same outfit. Now that was with TWO injuries.
This squad, thin enough as it is, currently has 5 CBs and a total of 7 defenders on the shelf - tell me any team that survives that kind of decimation? And it’s not been for a game or two, these players have been out for weeks and months respectively. So look at how we line up:
GK - Onana - first choice
RB - Dalot - first choice
CB - Casemiro - our first choice DM and 6th choice CB
CB - Evans - 5th choice CB and only fit natural CB
LB - AWB - Both natural LBs out injured and decided Dalot is better suited staying on the right
CM - Mainoo - First choice
CM - Eriksen - Casemiro would be here, except he’s covering CB, so we need our back-up CM, McT, BUT HE’S OUT TOO!
So the foundation from which we’ve had to ‘build’ includes a 5th and 6th choice CB ‘options’ a RB playing LB as both LBs are injured, and 3rd choice CM playing because the first choice is covering CB and the second choice is ALSO injured.
We've covered individual games with lots of injuries before, but I can never in my lifetime remember when it’s been as bad as this.
A few years ago when Van Dijk and Gomez got injured, Liverpool had a spell with Fabinho at the back, breaking up their first choice midfield, and they simply weren’t the same outfit. Now that was with TWO injuries.
This squad, thin enough as it is, currently has 5 CBs and a total of 7 defenders on the shelf - tell me any team that survives that kind of decimation? And it’s not been for a game or two, these players have been out for weeks and months respectively. So look at how we line up:
GK - Onana - first choice
RB - Dalot - first choice
CB - Casemiro - our first choice DM and 6th choice CB
CB - Evans - 5th choice CB and only fit natural CB
LB - AWB - Both natural LBs out injured and decided Dalot is better suited staying on the right
CM - Mainoo - First choice
CM - Eriksen - Casemiro would be here, except he’s covering CB, so we need our back-up CM, McT, BUT HE’S OUT TOO!
So the foundation from which we’ve had to ‘build’ includes a 5th and 6th choice CB ‘options’ a RB playing LB as both LBs are injured, and 3rd choice CM playing because the first choice is covering CB and the second choice is ALSO injured.
We've covered individual games with lots of injuries before, but I can never in my lifetime remember when it’s been as bad as this.
Thanks a lot for the input. When I have time, I always try to check Ipswich town’s results due to McKenna. I look at stats, and also the starting 11 and substitutes. It gives me the impression that he always rotates the squad both inter and intra matches.
ETH doesn’t rotate the squad much. It is probably one of the main contributing factors we have so many injuries. Rotating is an art of the game. It has to be learned. Not sure ETH has that skill.
I think we are almost sure about McKenna’s creativity. Remember that ole coach team is very creative, McFred, Pogba on left advanced role, William’s use on left, etc.
You spoke to me
At least I get to keep my Bald is Best mug.
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