I suspect the players would too
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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FFS if the authority has eroded then why on earth is he still here for Arsenal,maybe they saw Mitten saying on SSN I don't think this is the end and listened
It took this long for the doubts to creep in, have to hand it to him for somehow being able to get people behind him. A strange skill he has.
might strike some fear into them too.To be fair to Todd, Tommy never even tried that formation.
Personally I think it could have been a revelation.
looks like we have reached the "tit for tat" briefing stage with Players, Manager and Club all briefing their point of view...We are in Endgame now!
Have to say Ineos have been pretty shambolic so far.
I know inheriting such a catastrophically bad manager, who's added a load of rubbish players and ruined a few others, isn't ideal.
But first briefing that your whole squad is up for sale, then meeting with players and giving a strong impression the manager is done in a few weeks time, what the feck are they expecting to happen to performance levels?
If you dont want the manager, get rid. Not replacing Ten Hag before the cup final is basically giving city the cup for free now. Same as we're handing away Europa league qualification to Newcastle for free.
I know inheriting such a catastrophically bad manager, who's added a load of rubbish players and ruined a few others, isn't ideal.
But first briefing that your whole squad is up for sale, then meeting with players and giving a strong impression the manager is done in a few weeks time, what the feck are they expecting to happen to performance levels?
If you dont want the manager, get rid. Not replacing Ten Hag before the cup final is basically giving city the cup for free now. Same as we're handing away Europa league qualification to Newcastle for free.
Spot on
Joel Glazer needs to take back control now that Ineos have failed. He'd have sacked Ten Hag by now. Come on you beautiful American bastard. Sack our underperforming manager and get another one, you sexy dirty slut Joel. MMM yeah
I don't think McClaren as interim would give us any better of a chance though. If someone was available that could increase our slim chance then yeah sure but who? This is why we should have got an interim in ages ago.
That's obviously true.
But we can't ignore the fact that ETH has - now - contributed significantly to carrying on this unfortunate trend.
And - which is the point - he has done this willingly, as it were: by all accounts he craved a degree of control over recruitment. He's not a "head coach" who was burdened (at least partly) with a DOF's job, he's someone who actually fancied himself in a more influential "manager" role.
And he's been pretty dreadful in that role.
ETA I mean, the basic point is this: should we, as fans, say something like this:
"Yeah, he's a shite DOF (of sorts), but he could still be a brilliant coach under an actual DOF (who isn't shite)"?
I don't know about that, mate.
a) He wanted the DOF (of sorts) part himself: it wasn't forced on him. Is he not accountable for what looks like (to be diplomatic) subpar recruitment at all?
b) He hasn't actually demonstrated that he's a brilliant coach (at United, which is...well, what we're interested in here).
Conclusion (so far): he has done very little to convince anyone that he's worth keeping (in any capacity).
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Agree but I do think there's a valid argument about player culture to be had though. I mean, even under the supposedly strict Jose, Matic said that some players were taking the piss with time keeping and before that you had some Man United players referring to Moyes and the coaching staff as 'Everton' and players supposedly not opening e-mails sent to them by LvG, players calling Ralf and his staff 'Ted Lasso' etc. It's not been a good look down the years regarding player culture despite the changes in squads.
I don't think the players we have now are toxic or have ever "downed tools" as the popular saying goes but when you've got people saying that Southgate's most redeemable quality is being nice and supportive to players then i just think, that's not really an awful lot to recommend him, especially when Ole was similar and we won nothing under him.
This is just stupid. Rome wasnt built in a day.
Neither did it's decline happen in a day. It was a long process. To stay in that picture, SAF took two decades to built Rome, EtH is one of those who oversee it's fall.
I hope ET goes to a big club and then convince them that Onana, Antony, Rashford, Mount, Hoijund and whoever he brought are world class players in a toxic environment. They can get these players on cheap and we can get 150-200m selling these players.
Agree. Such a poor management. Why do we always get these kind of owners - such a cursed club? This is what happens when you hire an ex City or ex-Geordie.Someone who knows the club , who has that passion - like Neville or Rio should have been in that post .
But qualifying for Europe and the FA cup final are in a handful of days. Maybe leave rebuilding Rome until after then. Or make smarter decisions earlier so you dont end up in this position in the first place.
Sack the manager when he should be sacked, or if you dont have the stones to do that until Berreda and Ashworth are there to take all the responsibility for it, give the manager a big vote of confidence. You don't have to mean it.
To play devils advocate, perhaps it was an attempt at a 200IQ move by INEOS to release info that most of the 1st team are up for sale.
Any sane footballer should read that, obviously be disappointed but think ‘better put myself in the shop window’ and subsequently up their game.
Unfortunately the mentality of our plays is that of a bin and they’ve just downed tools…and the midfield.
Any sane footballer should read that, obviously be disappointed but think ‘better put myself in the shop window’ and subsequently up their game.
Unfortunately the mentality of our plays is that of a bin and they’ve just downed tools…and the midfield.
Ancelotti is an interesting one. From what players have said about him in Milan and PSG, when it comes to discipline he gives broad rules that predetermined locker room leaders are supposed to teach and enforce, he tells his players that he expect them to behave like adults in which case everything will be relax but if he has to get involved he will be disciplinarian. He just doesn't think that the later is ideal.
It took Arsenal three years to get it right. Liverpool the same under Klopp. Pep won nothing in his first year. Give them a bit of time for christs sake.
I keep coming to the topic, but he's still here.
I don't think anyone has downed tools. We have the same tactical issues and the same outcomes, with two small difference some of our better players are out and the opposition has been more clinical. If you don't fix the structure of our game, the players are screwed from the first second of the game.
But at least they had promising signs. We just keep hiting rock bottom after rock bottom.
That was Giggs, no wonder he never amounted to or won anything of significance in the game.
I think we just got used to mediocrity and accustomed to throwing 'patience' at everything. Be patient with players, they need time to gel, be patient with the manager, look how long it took Ferguson to make things right, be patient with owners, they need time to see what they are dealing with.
Many organizations have been able to turn things around very swiftly and without delay, some decisions are really easy and do not require lengthy deliberation.
No one is expecting to win a treble next year, but it's concerning how long we are taking to make very obvious choices.
Did they break all the negative records too?
People saying keep him till the end off the year. Just wondering if Arsenal put 5 or 6 against us what would happen on Monday.
They didnt. Arsenal fans were calling for Arteta to be sacked repeatedly. Just look at AFTV during that time.
How long did it take Ferguson to turn us into a championship winning team? Four or five years.
Just be patient with INEOS. This season is a write off and Ten Hag will most likely be sacked after the FA Cup.
Antony?
He'd need to be fecking Professor X to convince anyone Antony is a world class player.
Yeah, it shows that players will turn on managers if they think they're not good enough. If Southgate doesn't win the Euros (and England should be favorites or near with that talented squad) then the players at the first sign of trouble are going to think who the feck is this guy leading us? It shouldn't be that way but i'd bet it would happen.
Still not confident, specially when I see our midfielders all over the place and our defenders relying on m2m marking as way of defending on open play.
Yep. Make the season end, bring on Tuchel immediately and show some competence in the transfer market for once. The biggest thing to see is how well we sell. It's easy to get excited about new signings and drink the INEOS koolaid but selling has been consistently terrible over the past 10 years and if they show some competence here I'll immediately trust that they know what they're doing.
In my mind if we can raise Greenwood: 40m, Casemiro: 20-30m, Sancho: 50m and we're in business.
It's not just in football, it's normal human behavior. If you see signs of your leader being weak/incompetent, you are bound to eventually start questioning their ability to do the job. Arguably it's even more difficult for athletes because they can't just go and find a different job, they are usually under long term contracts.
The idea that employees will always perform at 100% and give their best regardless of their leader qualities is noble, but almost never happens.
My favorite rumor related to that was Steve Round getting the nickname "feck off Round"
Arsenal under Arteta, then, and, honestly, even Chelsea under Poch now both warranted or warrant (equivocal) support, compared to ETH's performance this season. It's not been about fine margins or not finishing chances or not creating quite enough - teams have been embarrassing United. The metrics are hideous. There isn't any sign of him adapting either, except when he has to shut up shop against City and play counterpunch. The team hasn't been evolving, just 'too slowly', but escaped being in lower mid-table through sheer luck and an unstable reliance upon 'moments'. Obviously you calculate in that Bruno can make something out of nothing, but no manager at a top or aspiring club grounds their philosophy in hoping that their 10 will find the top corner or play a worldie pass that someone just happens to make the right run for at some point.
443 was a joke made up by social media, I'm pretty sure. Boehly might be clueless, but you don't have to believe everything you read
How can anyone subscribe to this thought when INEOS are trying to remedy over a decade of Glazer neglect? It is going to take a long time and they are starting with the appropriate areas - a new executive team to oversee the footballing rebuild.
They don't really turn on managers, it can happen but it's generally not what happens. What is more likely to happen is to stop believing or doubting the gameplan, the message, yourself or your teammates. And the worst part about it is that managers/coaches do not like receiving that kind of feedback, they are highly likely to lash-out instead of finding solutions. The ones that do anticipate or genuinely try to fix these type of issues are the ones that have long careers and long tenures, it's not coincidence they create their own longevity.
And on a sidenote, even when things are going well people and athletes tend to not have the stamina to listen to the same message or messenger for too long. That's why great head coaches do two things, they change things up regularly whether it is the staff, the message, schedules, training methods and players, even when everything is going smoothly. You need to rejuvenate the minds of your players and your own.
Nah it was from The Athletic
We’ve arrived at panic station
Very accurate post.
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