I suspect it’s an instruction to go long and try to catch the opposition out - especially if it’s a fullback making a run to get on the end of it. Dalot is reasonable in the air and got good stamina. That’s why the CBs aren’t making themselves available because they know that’s the opening instruction
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Nationality has little do with it. Liverpool have a German coach and they are the media's darlings. They also can't stop themselves praising City as the best club to have ever existed on English soil. The point is you just have to be winner. Being charismatic also significantly helps. Klopp and Pep are both. Ten Hag is neither. And it's also in the media's interest to kick you while you are down. Everyone loves a fall from grace, and this club has been falling freely for a long time, reaching ever lower. Being English could offer a reprieve for a while, but not for very long. Though, I'm sure that amongst a certain subset of fans and media it could also conversely lead to "The Emperor has no clothes" situation.
I was annoyed with his tactics and management of the club in September, to answer your specific question - I say in my post that I was openly EtH out after the 0-1 defeat vs Palace.
The point I am making is that I didn't think he was a good enough coach / manager in September but I didn't actively dislike him.
I'm now starting to actively dislike him because I feel he's not acting in the best interests of the club, the fans or the players at this point.
That's the distinction I am making here, in how I view him as a coach vs as a character.
Quickest turn around ever
This. As soon as there are problems, we would hear all media talking about "no English manager has ever won the PL" etc.
I agree with this, feels like it's just a wind up now with the intention of doing as much damage in the long run as possible. It feels like a joke that's been carried on way past the point of it being funny.
Agree 100%. VG proved some of these players can be coached a different style of football, albeit it didnt pay off in the end, but at least we were in control of most of the play. Morinho and Ole styles of play also worked for a time, once again proving these players can be coached. Why its gone from 3rd to this shitshow, showed up in the first game against the Wanderers. By shoving as many players forward as he could, TH left a great big hole in midfield and still hasnt tried a different system to combat this. We need an adaptable manager, not one rooted in one system and when it fails time and again wont adapt or try diffrent players.
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The best way to stop the media from hammering you for being unsuccesful, is to be succesful. Winning solves a lot of issues.
So people can say ETH played a bunch of youngsters over a seasoned professional and killed their confidence cause they got tonked by crystal palace anyway.
This really isn't fifa. Promoting youth, deciding their minutes all must be very planned. You can't just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
I would love it if we sacked him and Bayern and Ajax both passed on hiring him.
He doesnt deserve a top job, even in a farmers league. Should have to work his way back up.
He doesnt deserve a top job, even in a farmers league. Should have to work his way back up.
Tuchel bullish
Exactly, and how damaging is this to the individuals - what's this doing to Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund etc...?
What's it doing to the value of some of the lads we want to shift, like Casemiro and Eriksen, for example?
What's it doing for the fans who spent £200+ going to Palace on Monday night?
What's the cost of not qualifying for any European competition? What's the cost of losing an FA Cup Final 5-0?
He's negligent at this point, a mad scientist who has lost control of his own crackpot experiment.
Being a journalist doesn't make you more qualified to judge the quality of coaching, just because you have access to certain people at the club. Like I said, they aren't going to be candid with somebody like Mitten unless it suits the narrative. The relationship and friendship that these ex-players have mean they are more likely to get the truth of the matter. But this is a different tangent than the one which I initially got involved with, which was that I believe that Scholes and Owen are better placed to judge the coaching than somebody like Mitten (who, as I keep pointing out, seems to have changed his tune once already).
Re the bolded bit, that might be true, but he clearly does talk to people at the club. What does he class as the footballing department? Ten Hag and his coaches? I don't expect him to talk to them. The current players? Probably not. He could still be talking to influential people that know what is going on, such as Fletcher.
Yep, completely agree. The repercussions of this season go on into next season now and possibly beyond.. Recruitment will be harder, fees will be higher, players will want to leave or want bigger contracts to stay, the morale and belief will be crushed. It should never be allowed to get to this point every time a manager is failing. Teams like Madrid and Bayern pull the plug fast.
I refuse to believe they ever considered him even for a second
It was 100% his agency who put that rumour out.
Why are we always linked to players or people who are/were affiliated with Chelsea? Tuchel must be a Chelsea legend winning the CL for them.
Smooth transition? We're 8th with a negative GD and got embarrased in an easy CL group. It couldn't be more rough if we tried.
Chelsea have hired everyone at some point, they don't have a problem with rolling the dice and firing if it gets toxic. We marry our managers and let them stay too long.
I remember journalists saying his agent was very active with the media a few months ago, so I can only imagine he's in overdrive right now.
Got to earn that 15% somehow right? I've seen them blaming Brailsford this morning for giving the players the impression he's getting the boot but Ten Hag and his people have been talking in self preservation mode for months now.
Well Bayern weren't ever interested it seems and I just saw that Ajax are trying to step up their pursuit of Potter in case we go for him after sacking Ten Hag, so even Ajax are worried they'll only have Ten Hag to pick from in the summer.
With only a year left on his contract, it is pretty obvious Ten Hag's team are putting these rumours out there. He likely feels he is gone end of the season. Ajax are going for Potter too.
It just feels weird hiring a manager who has won the biggest European trophy on club level with one of our fierest rivals. Looking at the state we are currently in I feel that if Tuchel does become our next manager he won't emulate his achievements at Chelsea, Bayern and PSG. He will always be that Chelsea manager who fell out with Boehly.
Matic, Mourinho, Lukaku and to a lesser extent Mata all were strange appointment. Then again, Falcao, Cavani, Di Maria, Casemiro, Valdez, Sanchez all feel very off.
These players time and again… but of the 11 that player against palace, 9 or 10 have only been here since ten hag. Yeah these players time and again.
There’s something new I feel like moaning about every day.
Just thinking about letting Reguilon go when we were clearly thread bare at left back and he actually had a decent spell here. It’s madness.
Imagine what difference just having one proper fit left back could have made to our injuries and easing the burden of our defenders.
This is why I’m not buying the injury crisis as an excuse, we have caused our own problems in many ways.
Just thinking about letting Reguilon go when we were clearly thread bare at left back and he actually had a decent spell here. It’s madness.
Imagine what difference just having one proper fit left back could have made to our injuries and easing the burden of our defenders.
This is why I’m not buying the injury crisis as an excuse, we have caused our own problems in many ways.
He's telling them to play man for man in defence, similar to Bielsa with Leeds, and that requires a very high level of individual athleticism from every player on the pitch....something we certainly don't have.
That's why there's gaps everywhere, teams will use decoys to drag key players out of position and isolate slower, weaker individuals. Look at the way Olise waltzed past Casemiro and then was able to run 30 yards to shoot at goal from inside the area without being challenged. Look how Mateta was easily able to isolate Evans.
If you have old and slow players, you need to drop the line and play with a very tight defensive structure - what we're doing is the total opposite
My question was more about what made him likeable as a person since you mentioned that you still liked him as a person. And what made you give up on him.
These are genuine questions the likeable part is something that I can't relate to but I'm still curious to know why people see it differently. And on the Football side of things I'm wondering what was the thing that made turn against him. Personally I was perplexed for the entirety of the preseason, I was perplexed during the latter part of the previous season but assumed that the players were just exhausted and maybe not being as diligent as they should since one of ETH's flaw was his lack of squad rotation. But during preseason we had similar issues that were just exacerbated by strange positionings, I also blamed the players and put it on them not being familiar with the new setup. I only realized that it wasn't the player when during a game I saw Hojlund take instructions from Van der Gaag, Martial and Hojlund aren't similar players, they don't have the same background, they don't have the same tendencies so it made no sense that both would do the same peculiar things without it coming from the same source.
I know that some people turned against ETH due to results, others because they aren't entertained or maybe his press conferences. To me it's because I can't make any sense of our tactics, no manager has ever baffled me more than ETH this season.
Oh I believe the "second". I bet when they talked about EtH it went something like this:
"So who is left, who could we ask?"
"What about EtH? He did a good job while being here"
*short silence*
*everybody laughing*
... for the Southgate "Welcome to Manchester" poster...
My biggest point of concern is that he doesn't have a known track record of putting his faith in youth players. I think that's a very important part of being United manager
Also, would Tuchel's style of play match the style that United want to start playing from next season? Rumour I heard was that Wilcox/Ashworth/Berrada want United to play possession football?
Does it matter any more? Tuchel won't be here forever, he'll do 2 to 3 seasons and probably be let go anyway, if he wins something in the mean time then great. We had Jose here and we got behind him similarly. All managers are self serving, career driven egomaniacs so we should just enjoy the good times as they bring them before they delve into the cycle of blame when they're trying to distance themselves from their own failings.
Any incoming manager won't get to pick their own players. There's no point in hiring all these technical and recruitment specialists just to ask Tuchel who he fancies when he walks through the door.
Does it? surely means they get one opinion that suits the narrative of the people they're talking to. Mitten at least talks to many people and gauges his opinion from that. Maybe, but they're not privy to any information apart from a coach they worked with over a decade ago and just making baseless claims.
You'd have to ask him, but Fletcher would definitely be considered the footballing department if you asked me.
I keep seeing this pop up and there's a really, really simple solution to that issue.
Manager: "I need a new midfielder"
Ashworth/Wilcox/Berrada: "No you don't, we have excellent reserves. Make it work. You agreed to this when you signed the contract"
Job done.
Tuchel has used several style of play. And largely possession heavy, while he can apply some very cynical tactics it's not really "his" style.
I think that is under playing his success like, and Chelsea being a total train wreck helps Tuchel as well for me
Bit more complex than that
Another manager could have persisted with trying Amrabat the last months rather than throwing their belief in Mainoo like Ten Hag has.
Same for Garnacho and the amount of starts he's had this season.
Having that excellent reserve is pretty pointless if the manager doesn't have faith in them. I'm not saying Tuchel doesn't, I don't know, but I'm not aware of many youth players he's played his part in.
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