Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JPRouve]

United fans: give manager time, we don't know if it's his fault, we have to be patient!
Also United fans: sack the board, the executives, the coaches and sell all players bar Mainoo and Garnacho.

I like this idea of setting up perfect structure with perfect coaches so "any" manager comes in will thrive. Like, let's try everything to make it easy for a manager. That's the top priority.

That's not even the issue, making things easy for a manager is a pretty good idea. The problem is that if you have to change everything then the problem may not be everything, especially when many do more with less.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Not sure if posted before, but this is actually hilarious.

Lads, he knows what he's doing alright.
Give him next year and his plan will all come together.

 

[adkb]

Why does the LB go for a long ball into the box? Why not the striker or the LW? Why does nobody cover for the LB when he goes on that run? Why even go for the long ball as first option when your CBs are under no pressure and could easily get and distribute the ball? That short clip already creates a lot of questions.

I just don't believe that it's Dalot's "basic setting" to go for that ball, unless he is instructed to do that. It's just not a natural movement for a fullback. Actually that could exactly be the reason why EtH wants to see that, as it possibly drags a lot of defenders out of their position when they are unsure about how to deal with that atypical run. It's just badly covered for.


I know. Was just referring to that specific clip

They go for long balls cause we are not a possession side. If we were we would keep the ball as much as possible, instead we sit deep cause most of our currently available defenders prefer that. So our option is to shoot it long. Now why does Dalot shoot it long in the box and not to the striker, well the answer is in when he crosses the ball why doesnt he catch the striker? Cause he isnt very good at long balls. He isn't very good at possession either. Dalot was out of the door, but AC Milan did not cough up the dough, so now we have to use him cause we have literally no one else.

 

[adkb]

United fans: give manager time, we don't know if it's his fault, we have to be patient!
Also United fans: sack the board, the executives, the coaches and sell all players bar Mainoo and Garnacho.

I like this idea of setting up perfect structure with perfect coaches so "any" manager comes in will thrive. Like, let's try everything to make it easy for a manager. That's the top priority.

Dumb take. United fans say that there needs a change in structure cause year after year any manager has failed. And they have shown the same pattern, good first year, and horrendous second. So United fans have now understood that simply changing a manger wont help. We need an all round change, but guess what happens when you change the management, and the manager and recruit bad at the same time? Well look at chelsea. So you might think your post has humor in it, but its extremely off the mark if you ask me.

 

[stefan92]

They go for long balls cause we are not a possession side. If we were we would keep the ball as much as possible, instead we sit deep cause most of our currently available defenders prefer that. So our option is to shoot it long. Now why does Dalot shoot it long in the box and not to the striker, well the answer is in when he crosses the ball why doesnt he catch the striker? Cause he isnt very good at long balls. He isn't very good at possession either. Dalot was out of the door, but AC Milan did not cough up the dough, so now we have to use him cause we have literally no one else.

In that clip Dalot wasn't the one shooting the long ball (Onana was), Dalot was the player running into the box to get it. Why him? Why did no one cover for him? Those are the questions I have there.

 

[JPRouve]

Not sure if posted before, but this is actually hilarious.

That's one of the things I was referring to when I say that the issue isn't the height of the backline. This sequence is very common for us and the backline can't be higher because if they step in the opposition's half there is no offside trap and the opposition just has to play long balls in our half with no care for any offside. Our tactics put our backline in an impossible situation and also ask our midfielders to be in two places at the same time.

 

[adkb]

In that clip Dalot wasn't the one shooting the long ball (Onana was), Dalot was the player running into the box to get it. Why him? Why did no one cover for him? Those are the questions I have there.

Your guess is as good as mine. But i think we can both agree Onana should not be shooting long. FFS i dont think that even Onanas plus point. But we are currently disjointed, so we need to manage the same. I believe the manager is doing that. Managing, sometimes it doesnt work, sometimes it just does the job, but nothing is fancy.

 

[stefan92]

Your guess is as good as mine. But i think we can both agree Onana should not be shooting long. FFS i dont think that even Onanas plus point. But we are currently disjointed, so we need to manage the same. I believe the manager is doing that. Managing, sometimes it doesnt work, sometimes it just does the job, but nothing is fancy.

As the CBs clearly don't want the ball it's Onana's only choice and yes we agree it's not great. But if we accept that the idea here is to go for a long ball, why is the execution of that move so terrible? I just don't get it. Dalot abandons his position and no one cares about it. And the manager shows no reaction to that. I just don't get it. None of it.

You are absolutely right, it's a disjointed team. But there are things happening that have to be coming from the manager (because no player would do them if just left to his natural instincts, like Dalot here) that make it just worse.

 

[Rista]

Dumb take. United fans say that there needs a change in structure cause year after year any manager has failed. And they have shown the same pattern, good first year, and horrendous second. So United fans have now understood that simply changing a manger wont help. We need an all round change, but guess what happens when you change the management, and the manager and recruit bad at the same time? Well look at chelsea. So you might think your post has humor in it, but its extremely off the mark if you ask me.

So United fans figured out everyone and everything is at fault and needs to be changed, except the manager. That's not very smart of them if you ask me.

 

[redshaw]

McLaren could be fulfilling various roles, doing what ETH says, being more of a older figure familiar with the club to help along at first. In the past Fergie would be instructing him. McLaren will have his own ways if given the job. Kidd, Carlos, McLaren etc work for Alex and impart something at that time. Fergie has talked about the go between man and some newer methods.

I'm sure Owen and Scholes are seeing a bizarre setup, they're not wrong even if they can't articulate it well each week. ETH, his own team and possibly McLaren to some extent have come up with this at the end of last season as ETH described and it's been a car crash from day 1, missing the aim of giving fans an attacking style of United's past.

 

[JPRouve]

As the CBs clearly don't want the ball it's Onana's only choice and yes we agree it's not great. But if we accept that the idea here is to go for a long ball, why is the execution of that move so terrible? I just don't get it. Dalot abandons his position and no one cares about it. And the manager shows no reaction to that. I just don't get it. None of it.

You are absolutely right, it's a disjointed team. But there are things happening that have to be coming from the manager (because no player would do them if just left to his natural instincts, like Dalot here) that make it just worse.

I don't think that it's a case of the CBs not wanting the ball. Nothing actually prevents a pass from Onana to either CBs. It looks like a clear set play.

 

[stefan92]

I don't think that it's a case of the CBs not wanting the ball. Nothing actually prevents a pass from Onana to either CBs. It looks like a clear set play.

The CBs are not looking at him, but in front of them. They wouldn't notice when he passes the ball to them, so he can't make that pass.

 

[Berbaclass]

You're living on fantasy planet if you think we're selling Rashford..

If it makes financial sense I don't see why not. As @Revan pointed out above the amortization means if we get 100-150 for Rashford and Greenwood we could effectively rebuild the team with the 400-500m in spending it would give us.

 

[LordSpud]

Wasn't sure where exactly to put this but I figured in here will do because I think it gives an idea why some players aren't fancying it and going injured and others aren't even trying.

Really worrying though that it feels like Groundhog Day that the players are seemingly being chosen over the manager. We will be back here in 2 years time with the exact same thing. Can't trust those players at all.

 

[Berbaclass]

Oh no, anyway...

 

[LordSpud]

You're living on fantasy planet if you think we're selling Rashford..

PSG losing their Star Boy with no real replacement? I think selling Rashford is a definite goer in the summer if he gets promises about being the main man there.

 

[Laurencio]

They go for long balls cause we are not a possession side. If we were we would keep the ball as much as possible, instead we sit deep cause most of our currently available defenders prefer that. So our option is to shoot it long. Now why does Dalot shoot it long in the box and not to the striker, well the answer is in when he crosses the ball why doesnt he catch the striker? Cause he isnt very good at long balls. He isn't very good at possession either. Dalot was out of the door, but AC Milan did not cough up the dough, so now we have to use him cause we have literally no one else.

Exactly. Bruno, Eriksen, Mainoo, Mount, Casemiro, Garnacho, Varane, Maguire, Hojlund, Onana are all incapable of passing the ball, it's not like they have 85% plus passing success with short range passes and 80% plus on medium range passes. Oh wait.. they do. Well they certainly can't be expected to keep the ball against Crystal Palace who is clearly a superior passing side? Oh, they are worse? Well we don't have any players who are good at the final ball in the final third do we? Except for Bruno who is the best in Europe at it, and our forward line is generally good at it with ground passes. But our defence is shit surely? But no, our shot to goal ratio and defensive stats are actually very good.

Statistically our strenghts are; passing short, moving the ball sideways and slowly through the lines, Bruno finding the final ball and defensive ability of individual players one on one.
Our weaknesses are; inability to make correct decisions quickly, poor athleticism, vulnerable on the counter, poor ability to move the ball quickly through the lines, poor pace in defense.

Somehow the conclusion to that is to play long ball and a frantically paced transition game?

 

[adkb]

So United fans figured out everyone and everything is at fault and needs to be changed, except the manager. That's not very smart of them if you ask me.

If you just want to ridicule then by all means follow this train of thought, but no one is saying the manager is bullet proof. Currently there are other changes happening in the club, and to ensure smooth transition I believe manager should not be at the top of the change list.

 

[JPRouve]

The CBs are not looking at him, but in front of them. They wouldn't notice when he passes the ball to them, so he can't make that pass.

Which is why you can bet that it's a set play. In fact the ball went from a CB to the goalkeeper, if it was just a case of getting rid of the ball or not wanting it the CB could have passed it to the other CB or gave the ball to Mainoo(?) who was just there unmarked, next to him.

Edit: Didn't Dalot found himself in a 1v1 recently with a similar action?

 

[adkb]

Exactly. Bruno, Eriksen, Mainoo, Mount, Casemiro, Garnacho, Varane, Maguire, Hojlund, Onana are all incapable of passing the ball, it's not like they have 85% plus passing success with short range passes and 80% plus on medium range passes. Oh wait.. they do. Well they certainly can't be expected to keep the ball against Crystal Palace who is clearly a superior passing side? Oh, they are worse? Well we don't have any players who are good at the final ball in the final third do we? Except for Bruno who is the best in Europe at it, and our forward line is generally good at it with ground passes. But our defence is shit surely? But no, our shot to goal ratio and defensive stats are actually very good.

Statistically our strenghts are; passing short, moving the ball sideways and slowly through the lines, Bruno finding the final ball and defensive ability of individual players one on one.
Our weaknesses are; inability to make correct decisions quickly, poor athleticism, vulnerable on the counter, poor ability to move the ball quickly through the lines, poor pace in defense.

Somehow the conclusion to that is to play long ball and a frantically paced transition game?

Bruno is absolutely terrible at keeping the ball. His conversion rate is high but he loses the ball so many times.\

Eriksen has no legs, if you do not reach the ball, passing it or keeping it is out of question.

I am sure you have watched tons of game, tell me what do you think of Casemiros passing? He is constantly giving away possession in dangerous areas, and i remember this cause so many time we have conceded from his mistakes.

Our defense is shit. We do not have proactive defenders. Everyone wanted Harry out last year, guess what he is the first name on the sheet today, well credit to ETH cause he changed the way the team played to suit needs of some players. These players are shit as documented over and over again. And this is not a pro ETH post, this is just that the error might be some place else which we need to address first before we sack another manager.

 

[dwd]

Wasn't sure where exactly to put this but I figured in here will do because I think it gives an idea why some players aren't fancying it and going injured and others aren't even trying.

Really worrying though that it feels like Groundhog Day that the players are seemingly being chosen over the manager. We will be back here in 2 years time with the exact same thing. Can't trust those players at all.

If he can't trust the players that he signed then yeah, he's fecked.

 

[stefan92]

Which is why you can bet that it's a set play. In fact the ball went from a CB to the goalkeeper, if it was just a case of getting rid of the ball or not wanting it the CB could have passed it to the other CB or gave the ball to Mainoo(?) who was just there unmarked, next to him.

Edit: Didn't Dalot found himself in a 1v1 recently with a similar action?

Ah, I think I misunderstood you a bit. Yes I agree, this is definitely a planned move and we actually mean the same. Giving the ball to the keeper to play the long ball essentially is the same as not wanting the ball back from him I think

And I don't remember that situation successful, but as I don't watch every United game it could well be, and anyway I can see there can be logic behind that move. Still I can't see any reason why no one covers for him, that's what I really take issue with in this situation. The left wing is just open to be countered through due to this. Some elements of what we see can make sense, but not in the context that we see.

 

[DownRiver]

Stubborn ETH. We see the same problems since the initial Wolves game in the begin of the season. Did we get any better? No.

I honestly think that he expected so many players to come back and so then he can play the way wants. If he knew the amount of players that would be injured over the season, he would not have stuck with this style of play since the start of the season.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

United fans say that there needs a change in structure cause year after year any manager has failed. And they have shown the same pattern, good first year, and horrendous second.

But that's not true. Neither Ole nor Mourinho had a "horrendous" second year. Moyes did not have a good first year or a second year of any kind.

 

[spiriticon]

Our defense is shit. We do not have proactive defenders. Everyone wanted Harry out last year, guess what he is the first name on the sheet today, well credit to ETH cause he changed the way the team played to suit needs of some players. These players are shit as documented over and over again. And this is not a pro ETH post, this is just that the error might be some place else which we need to address first before we sack another manager.

And what a stunning contribution he's made this season. We're on our way to one of the worst defensive seasons I can remember.

 

[JPRouve]

Ah, I think I misunderstood you a bit. Yes I agree, this is definitely a planned move and we actually mean the same. Giving the ball to the keeper to play the long ball essentially is the same as not wanting the ball back from him I think

And I don't remember that situation successful, but as I don't watch every United game it could well be, and anyway I can see there can be logic behind that move. Still I can't see any reason why no one covers for him, that's what I really take issue with in this situation. The left wing is just open to be countered through due to this. Some elements of what we see can make sense, but not in the context that we see.

United patented the 2-2-6 there is never anyone to cover flanks. In reality both wings were open, they always are. As is the middle of the opposition's half. It's part of the masterplan.

 

[Baxquux]

Wasn't sure where exactly to put this but I figured in here will do because I think it gives an idea why some players aren't fancying it and going injured and others aren't even trying.

Really worrying though that it feels like Groundhog Day that the players are seemingly being chosen over the manager. We will be back here in 2 years time with the exact same thing. Can't trust those players at all.

Papers have been briefed that most of the squad is 'available' for sale. Wilcox has come in and, especially in absence of Ashworth, will lead (alongside the manager or incoming manager of course) on a lot of these decisions, and He doesn't have some kind of 'investment' in them as players he helped bring in and stake his reputation on, or helped (with exception of Sancho) develop, so he can be fairly cool-eyed about selling them off if they're not capable of requisite tactical/technical/physical standard for playing modern top 4-challenger football (at the very least).

There are issues around wages and contract lengths to navigate, but i don't think the players can just kick back and think this has won them another 2 years on the club dime without serious scrutiny and being able to just brief against managers if they're being pushed too hard.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Wasn't sure where exactly to put this but I figured in here will do because I think it gives an idea why some players aren't fancying it and going injured and others aren't even trying.

Really worrying though that it feels like Groundhog Day that the players are seemingly being chosen over the manager. We will be back here in 2 years time with the exact same thing. Can't trust those players at all.

I'll never trust the likes of Mainoo, Hojlund, Gernacho, Mount, Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, Amrobat, Malacia, Evans and Antony ever again for throwing yet another United manager under the bus

 

[JPRouve]

But that's not true. Neither Ole nor Mourinho had a "horrendous" second year. Moyes did not have a good first year or a second year of any kind.

And LVG had an underwhelming second season but it was with an injury crisis and he was still fighting for the CL until the last game. United missed the CL due to the goal difference.

 

[Shark]

I'll never trust the likes of Mainoo, Hojlund, Gernacho, Mount, Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, Amrobat, Malacia, Evans and Antony ever again for throwing yet another United manager under the bus

These kind of posts are becoming so tiresome, right?

 

[stefan92]

United patented the 2-2-6 there is never anyone to cover flanks. In reality both wings were open, they always are. As is the middle of the opposition's half. It's part of the masterplan.

Definitely. Which is why EtH deserves to be sacked (and should have been months ago).

 

[AndySmith1990]

These kind of posts are becoming so tiresome, right?

Just a tad

 

[Laurencio]

Bruno is absolutely terrible at keeping the ball. His conversion rate is high but he loses the ball so many times.\

Eriksen has no legs, if you do not reach the ball, passing it or keeping it is out of question.

I am sure you have watched tons of game, tell me what do you think of Casemiros passing? He is constantly giving away possession in dangerous areas, and i remember this cause so many time we have conceded from his mistakes.

Our defense is shit. We do not have proactive defenders. Everyone wanted Harry out last year, guess what he is the first name on the sheet today, well credit to ETH cause he changed the way the team played to suit needs of some players. These players are shit as documented over and over again. And this is not a pro ETH post, this is just that the error might be some place else which we need to address first before we sack another manager.

Bruno is fine when given time on the ball. He has a tendency to play high risk high reward passes, often by design.

Eriksen isn't very mobile, but he can certainly help keep play ticking a long for 60 minutes, he's been able to provide a semblence of control in our posession up until very recently.

Casemiro is terrible at long range passes, but he is not terrible at short range passes. His passing game isn't expansive enough for what we want him to do, and he looks a much worse passer because of it. At Real Madrid he was at his best laying the ball off to more expansive passers - that's what he should be doing. Right now we're playing to his passing weaknesses.

Our defence needs improvement, but stat wise they aren't actually shit. Stat wise Harry Maguire is in the top bracket for defensive performances in all of Europe. Raphael Varane is hot and cold, but mostly decent. Jonny Evans is a decent level centreback who is terribly slow and old. Lindelof is quite terrible, but passing wise he's actually not that bad. Kambwala is quite decent. Wan Bissaka is one of the better one on one defenders out there, and Dalot while terrible positionally, has decent enough stats for being out of position so much. So we have a slow central defence that have surprisingly decent passing stats when facing the opposition (when their back is to the opposition they are absolutely terrible). That doesn't mean we have a great defense, but it certainly isn't so bad that you can't do anything with it other than hit the ball long and defend as deep as possible while forcing the opposition to make long shots all day long.

​

 

[crossy1686]

Wasn't sure where exactly to put this but I figured in here will do because I think it gives an idea why some players aren't fancying it and going injured and others aren't even trying.

Really worrying though that it feels like Groundhog Day that the players are seemingly being chosen over the manager. We will be back here in 2 years time with the exact same thing. Can't trust those players at all.

What's the alternative? Sign 22 new players in the summer and let Ten Hag pick whomever he wants? We aren't City, we don't have infinite cash and willing to cheat.

Whether or not some of you want to or are ready to admit it yet, the likes of Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro, maybe even Sancho etc are going to be pivotal in how well we do next season and onwards. The incoming manager's job is to consistently get the best out of the squad he has available to him while the structure find new players for him to integrate into the squad to replace failing players. If you think replacing failing managers is a dangerous precedent, you should see how damaging and expensive replacing entire squads is.

 

[JPRouve]

Exactly. Bruno, Eriksen, Mainoo, Mount, Casemiro, Garnacho, Varane, Maguire, Hojlund, Onana are all incapable of passing the ball, it's not like they have 85% plus passing success with short range passes and 80% plus on medium range passes. Oh wait.. they do. Well they certainly can't be expected to keep the ball against Crystal Palace who is clearly a superior passing side? Oh, they are worse? Well we don't have any players who are good at the final ball in the final third do we? Except for Bruno who is the best in Europe at it, and our forward line is generally good at it with ground passes. But our defence is shit surely? But no, our shot to goal ratio and defensive stats are actually very good.

Statistically our strenghts are; passing short, moving the ball sideways and slowly through the lines, Bruno finding the final ball and defensive ability of individual players one on one.
Our weaknesses are; inability to make correct decisions quickly, poor athleticism, vulnerable on the counter, poor ability to move the ball quickly through the lines, poor pace in defense.

Somehow the conclusion to that is to play long ball and a frantically paced transition game?

If you give our current squad to LVG, we are a totally different team when it comes to possession or the ability to not concede silly chances. In fact you can give our current team to any of our previous managers and I expect a far better product.

 

[adkb]

And what a stunning contribution he's made this season. We're on our way to one of the worst defensive seasons I can remember.

I totally agree. But we still are happy that he is playing. So that tells you how bad it must be for manager to play him over and over again.

 

[adkb]

But that's not true. Neither Ole nor Mourinho had a "horrendous" second year. Moyes did not have a good first year or a second year of any kind.

By united standards all years are horrendous years. Honestly even the season with Mou when we came second, it was terrible cause there was no real chance we would win and Mou went on to say that his greatest achievement was to get united second that season. We have been below average.

 

[crossy1686]

Oh no, anyway...

Even Ajax are worried they'll end up with just Ten Hag to pick from.

 

[crossy1686]

I totally agree. But we still are happy that he is playing. So that tells you how bad it must be for manager to play him over and over again.

Why? We have reserve players, Van Gaal threw some kids in who weren't good enough just because they were left footed, we didn't mind at the time and we even had sympathy for him for trying. Ten Hag is just putting players out there to fail because he knows they can't do what he's asking yet he keeps picking them anyway. Then in the post match he comes out and blames the defence for allowing 30+ shots on goal. It's textbook definition of a toxic relationship and he's caused it by gaslighting everyone.

 

[JPRouve]

Why? We have reserve players, Van Gaal threw some kids in who weren't good enough just because they were left footed, we didn't mind at the time and we even had sympathy for him for trying. Ten Hag is just putting players out there to fail because he knows they can't do what he's asking yet he keeps picking them anyway. Then in the post match he comes out and blames the defence for allowing 30+ shots on goal. It's textbook definition of a toxic relationship and he's caused it by gaslighting everyone.

Those kids also did fairly well, compared to what they did outside of United. LVG actually elevated some of them when they were in the team.