Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Interesting video but honestly I think we get smashed by City no matter who is in the dugout if Casemiro & Evans are our starting CBs and Eriksen has to play 90 minutes in midfield.

Steve McClaren will not save us from that fate. I also find it hard to believe the theory that McClaren has no input into coaching at all. Maybe he's just past it now, or the players aren't listening. I can't see it making a jot of difference if he takes over as interim.

That is such an interesting piece. Owen and Scholes actually look genuinely upset, deflated. I have never seen anything like this at OT in my lifetime. Mourinho, OGS were awful in the end, but this seems on a different level. And the comments re McClaren only serve to further highlight the ETH approach to recruiting and working with his players and staff.

I would change things for last four games, because I also feel, this could get really, really ugly. And it makes me sad as a United fan.

Scholes also makes a comment which I was thinking last night: the players on that pitch are not as bad as how they are performing. They are not great, but they are not reflecting their ability in how they are playing.

Something is going on.
 
Thinking of coaches in a similar way to players is actually a very useful analogy because it also helps us see one step further. Coaches, like players, are also not static in a good or bad, black and white kind of way. It's entirely possible to be a good coach one year and then a bad coach a few years later. That kind of thinking almost never enters the debate when talking about coaches, yet when talking about players it is immediately obvious and understanding it is taken for granted. For example, Dele Alli. Clearly a good player at one point and then due to numerous reasons he wasn't cut out for the top level anymore. Players can even go up, down and back up again if they sort themselves out/rediscover lost motivation or adapt their game etc and again it can apply to coaches too.

Ten Hag for example could have been a good coach at Ajax, a bad coach while here this season and there is a chance that he will potentially come good again with a different environment and a fresh start. I do doubt he will have success afterwards, but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to say I can predict the future with certainty, so of course there's a chance.

A counter argument might then be, if you think there is a chance he can be a good coach again then why not give him the chance to turn his fortunes around here? I reckon that turning things around without a change of environment is even more difficult and extremely rare and it would be reckless to hang the hopes of the club on that slim possibility. Again you could say the same for many players who have been at a club for 2 years. Why believe Ten Hag can turn it around but that Casemiro can't? Their length of service at United and their performances at United are almost perfectly aligned, yet absolutely no one has any problem with getting rid of the player. In fact, hanging our midfield hopes on Casemiro rediscovering his form and not bringing in a replacement would be seen as the ridiculous idea.
The frustrating thing here is that nearly all of Ten Hag's reputation comes from a cup run from half a decade ago. So you still have people saying "we know he can't be a bad coach, he reached CL semis". Plenty of players and managers in that same time frame went from being hot prospects to nobodies in football but people still clinging onto that one particular result as proof of him being a good coach, as if that's something set in stone forever. Mourinho was an amazing coach not even that long ago before we hired him.
 
He doesn’t deserve to be leading the team out at Wembley and the freakish 1 in 1000 chance of getting another cup title he didn’t contribute to
 
We just MIGHT get a couple of performances out of this rabble if we put interim in charge until summer, however there is no way that INEOS put one in place with only 4 games left. Moyes got sacked and Giggs took reins but that was a couple of weeks earlier.
 
The frustrating thing here is that nearly all of Ten Hag's reputation comes from a cup run from half a decade ago. So you still have people saying "we know he can't be a bad coach, he reached CL semis". Plenty of players and managers in that same time frame went from being hot prospects to nobodies in football but people still clinging onto that one particular result as proof of him being a good coach, as if that's something set in stone forever. Mourinho was an amazing coach not even that long ago before we hired him.

The stupid thing is that ETH has already specifically come out to say that he won't (or can't) play the football that got his Ajax team famous for that half a season, which is the sole reason why most here wanted him hired.

I'm not sure what the people still supporting him are waiting for, exactly. They will never see what they want to see.
 
If we are that decimated with injuries why has the manager not introduced more academy player's ? What had he to lose, surely it is time's like this to give them a run out.
 
The stupid thing is that ETH has already specifically come out to say that he won't (or can't) play the football that got his Ajax team famous for that half a season, which is the sole reason why most here wanted him hired.

I'm not sure what the people still supporting him are waiting for, exactly. They will never see what they want to see.
How do you know what those people want to see?
 
It's proof that Erik has failed his number one responsibility and perhaps the primary reason he was acquired at first instance and that's to effectively coach this team.

By his own admission in Neville's interview, he alluded that he was incapable of playing a specific system unless Frenkie De Jong was signed. It's absolutely pathetic that the entire identity of a team would hinge on one signing. If INEOS determine that they want United to play a specific way and hire a manager behind those intentions, Erik's experience shouldn't be used as an example to highlight a flaw in that approach.

It's pretty clear that he can only thrive in literally the perfect environment. He had a brilliant structure doing a-lot of work for him at Ajax, and some top class players coming through the youth system. He was also taking over a team that narrowly missed out on winning the league.

He might do well again elsewhere, but literally only if everything falls perfectly into his lap.
 
If we are that decimated with injuries why has the manager not introduced more academy player's ? What had he to lose, surely it is time's like this to give them a run out.
Klopp did that, though he did also play Fabinho at CB when Liverpool had their crisis a few years back.
 
How do you know what those people want to see?

Those that want to see the football that Ajax played, they will never see that. It's not my words, it's straight from the horse's mouth.

Those that want to see what ETH is cooking with this zero defence kamikaze style, fair play, there's something there to see alright, but it's not very pretty.
 
Agree completely, and while not saying McLaren as an interim, I can't see how it could be much worse.

What surprised me is how highly Owen and Scholes seem to rate McLaren as a coach and how they seem to think that he's having little to no input as a coach under ten Hag.
Imo they know something.
 
Surprised the amount of people that want an interim isn't much higher honestly.

Owen and Scholesy video actually make a lot of sense in that clip, not sure on Steve as the interim, but leave him there and get any other manager in could work too imo

Put it this way, after that result? There's no f in way that he's manager next season.
 
I can't understand that there's virtually no talk of him being sacked. Yes, there's only a few games left but we still have a lot to play for. In Ratcliffe's first interview he spoke about how important it was to qualify for the CL for FFP reasons. Clearly that's long gone but financially it's important to qualify for Europe and we still have opportunities to do that whilst also winning a trophy. You have to give the team the best possible chance to do so and that's without Ten Hag.

I almost feel sorry for the players at this point, certainly the younger ones. They've been made to look incompetent all season by his tactics, everyone can see how bad we are in nearly every game, you even have coaches and players from opposition sides talking about it. Add in the fallouts with Ronaldo and Sancho (even if he was right), the way De Gea's exit was handled, the Liverpool defeat last year and they've had plenty of opportunities where they could have downed tools before now. If they've finally given up on him then who can really blame them?
 
Who do you put in charge for a few games? And they will have to deal with the injuries as well. Basically we are in deep, deep shiit.
 
I can't understand that there's virtually no talk of him being sacked. Yes, there's only a few games left but we still have a lot to play for. In Ratcliffe's first interview he spoke about how important it was to qualify for the CL for FFP reasons. Clearly that's long gone but financially it's important to qualify for Europe and we still have opportunities to do that whilst also winning a trophy. You have to give the team the best possible chance to do so and that's without Ten Hag.

I almost feel sorry for the players at this point, certainly the younger ones. They've been made to look incompetent all season by his tactics, everyone can see how bad we are in nearly every game, you even have coaches and players from opposition sides talking about it. Add in the fallouts with Ronaldo and Sancho (even if he was right), the way De Gea's exit was handled, the Liverpool defeat last year and they've had plenty of opportunities where they could have downed tools before now. If they've finally given up on him then who can really blame them?
It was rumoured the other day that it would cost 20m to get rid of him and all his staff. Does that affect FFP and then not getting CL as well.They may just want to bite the bullet and get rid of him for nothing. It might work out alright, but it could go even more horribly wrong.
 
Not only did it lead to that result, but you cannot keep putting Mainoo in those situations and think its not going to affect him. That kind of thing destroys confidence. And that is what we are doing to our best prosects.

Him putting Wheatley on at 4-0....what was the young lad to do? Suffer through the ignominy of losing to such a score line while Eze was taking the piss out of them.
 
We just MIGHT get a couple of performances out of this rabble if we put interim in charge until summer, however there is no way that INEOS put one in place with only 4 games left. Moyes got sacked and Giggs took reins but that was a couple of weeks earlier.
I doubt it, this team has horrendous mentality, they're on the beach already. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few lazy red cards so they don't have to finish out the season.
 
I think last night cemented that it's better to get rid of him now and bet on a caretaker/interim to get something out of this team than hope he could pull off a miracle. Surely all confidence is completely gone and the players know he's gone in the summer.

He's turned out to be the worst of the post Fergie full time managers. Ole's available, right?
 
Who do you put in charge for a few games? And they will have to deal with the injuries as well. Basically we are in deep, deep shiit.
At this point it genuinely doesn't matter. We cannot actually get worse than this, and keeping ten Hag for the cup final is rewarding that whilst delaying our ability to actively go for other managers.
 
It was rumoured the other day that it would cost 20m to get rid of him and all his staff. Does that affect FFP and then not getting CL as well.They may just want to bite the bullet and get rid of him for nothing. It might work out alright, but it could go even more horribly wrong.

What is the cost differential between sacking him and the Europa/Conference money for next season? I think sacking him would be cheaper than not getting any European football at all.
 
It was rumoured the other day that it would cost 20m to get rid of him and all his staff. Does that affect FFP and then not getting CL as well.They may just want to bite the bullet and get rid of him for nothing. It might work out alright, but it could go even more horribly wrong.
The most recent talk was it being ~9m to sack him prior to the 25% no-CL pay-cut. I really can't see how the total amount would get close to 20m.
 
Not sure it is even weeding them out, they are in plain sight, sell Rashford, sell Casemiro, let Varane go, get rid of AWB, where is Lindelof and Malacia are they injured or just don't fancy it too much. Sell Sancho, I would even sell the joke of a goalkeeper. Is Shaw worth keeping as injured too often. These younger players need good influences not ones who show complete disrespect to whichever manager is in charge. Oh and I forgot Antony.

So we sell Rashford, get rid of Antony, Casemiro and Varane, sell two squad players who barely play in Lindelof and Malacia.

All our problems are sorted then?

Two of those guys are Ten Hag signings. Two of them are two of the most decorated and experienced players in Europe. Doubt Lindelof is a bad influence.

So it's mostly just Rashford then?
 
It was rumoured the other day that it would cost 20m to get rid of him and all his staff. Does that affect FFP and then not getting CL as well.They may just want to bite the bullet and get rid of him for nothing. It might work out alright, but it could go even more horribly wrong.
Given where Bayern are right now in their search for a Tuchel replacement, negotiating a smooth divorce and him parachuting into that job without either a pay-out or Bayern paying a release fee would work. For the sake of trying to score a couple of million from Bayern for a 'release', the calculation around holding-off is not great considering how much United would have to pay to just sack him instead ( definitely not 20m, given the CL non-qualification clause that has been mentioned in dispatches, but still likely over 10m if we include staff) and how delay also affects prep for next season.
 
Who do you put in charge for a few games? And they will have to deal with the injuries as well. Basically we are in deep, deep shiit.
Carrick was okay for those two games when Ole got canned. Give it McClaren. It genuinely can't be any worse than the slop we are currently serving up.
 
How is this guy still our manager ffs?

I could accept not making top four given the injuries and other issues with some of our players. We've now been overtaken by a mediocre Newcastle and rancid Chelsea team (who incidentally look like much better football teams than us) and dropped out of automatic qualification for any European competition, whilst getting absolutely pumped by Crystal Palace.

Absolutely raging that he is still here with no noise of him being removed immediately. We still have a cup final and a European place to play for and this cant is still in place, sending us out to get smashed by limited teams.

Unbelievable.
 
It says something when the both the stats and general census within football is that we are one the worst coached teams in the league but yeah let's give him another season
 
Very well debated. Cheers.
There is nothing to debate anymore. The only toxic thing is this embarrassing, blind trust in the manager that no other fanbase has. The sooner we get rid of the manager cult, the better.
 
There was an opportunity last night to get Antony out of the team and get an extra midfielder on the pitch. From the start.

Mount and Garnacho wide and bring Amrabat in to play as a 6.

It won't work miracles but jeez it helps with a couple of major problems. i.e. Antony and being too open in the middle.
 
Surprised the amount of people that want an interim isn't much higher honestly.

Owen and Scholesy video actually make a lot of sense in that clip, not sure on Steve as the interim, but leave him there and get any other manager in could work too imo

Put it this way, after that result? There's no f in way that he's manager next season.

There will always be a swing back to yes as the week goes on and fully expect that again
 
Who do you put in charge for a few games? And they will have to deal with the injuries as well. Basically we are in deep, deep shiit.

Take any of McClaren/Ole/Rooney/Giggs/Fletcher heck even Keano just to see who could survive
 
Status
Not open for further replies.