Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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LawCharltonBest said:
I'm going completely by memory, but none of them were sacked the day after a match were they? Thought it was all at least 2 days later

Not that I think it's likely with the cup final looming
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Considering the time difference between Manchester and the US (the Glazers) that made sense. Having a kind of analysis in Manchester on the day after the match, inform the Glazers of the result, so that they effectively over night in Manchester decide to sack a manager, so that the formalities (and announcement) will be done on the next morning.

As Ratcliffe/INEOS now should have the last word I don't think the hours have to be similar, now a sacking in the evening after discussing during the day how to proceed is just as likely.
 
Adz_99 said:
Time previous managers sackings were announced:

Ole: 8am
Jose: 10am
LVG: 11am (although basically leaked the day before)
Moyes: 8am

Basically I don't think Ten Hag is going anywhere today. We'd know something by now.
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He should resign, but he wants his money like the rest. He has given up already, never changes anything, does nothing by the looks of it.

Just wants his money. And the club don't want to pay up so will let him suffer on, a few more beatings like last night will destroy whatever reputation he has left.

Sad, but his signings have put the club backwards for years, who will take that fraud Antony off us?
 
Sarni said:
Most managers prefer physical center halves and some may not be particularly keen on trying to integrate a short, slow(ish) defender purely for his ball playing ability. He's not really hugely versatile in his style of football so if we appoint a manager that is not fond of what he is now, we may well move on.

Someone like Tuchel though would try to maximize his value.
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Completely agree. I think he is a Henze/Blind type of player, not the reincarnation of Baresi that Caf claimed him to be.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see a new manager keeping him in a backup role for several positions (CB/LB/DMF). But I do not see him a CB starter long term. He is genuinely awful in the air (for good reasons), he is quite slow, he is not physically strong, he is quite dribblable. And EPL seem to have broken him.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
So you think Rashford is a great lad and putting loads of effort in, Casemiro is OK, Antony is OK, AWB is OK?
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The "nothing will change unless the players are weeded out" statement is not valid in the same example that many of the same players who played under previous managers (LVG, Jose, Ole) were successful under Erik's tenure last season.

This naive sensationism that another manager can't do better with some of the players is a proven contradiction sounded to absolve the manager of any accountability.
 
I’ve been of the opinion that they’d just hold on to him until Ineos people got settled and let him start next season. I think it’s gotten too bad though - As people have said, the team are probably odds on to lose the next 4 games.

When players have experienced lows of this magnitude under a manager, they will never have full confidence in him again. So either you need to change the players or you change the manager.
 
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Robbie Boy said:
Watching how Glasner has transformed this Palace side in a matter of months, makes me think that we are stuck in a perpetual loop of misery. Don't forgot that he took over from Hodgson who had Palace playing some utterly awful stuff. Mateta barely looked a footballer under Hodgson, and he now has scored 9 times under Glasner since February. Maybe it's a new manager bounce, but they genuinely look a good side.
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I don't think it's a bounce. They didn't have the typical bounce wins when he joined, they are now getting results as his way of football is really put into the team (at least I assume, yesterday was the first time I actually watched a match of Glasner's Palace team and only checked results before). Actually the way the played looked very similar to his Frankfurt team that won the EL, so I think it's safe to assume that what we have seen yesterday is very close to what he wants to see and to their "true level" under him.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I think it really shows how, for some, standards have been lowered to absolute rock bottom over the past 11 years. It's hard to even remember the ridiculously high standards that the great man set for this club, the fans and the players.

In the post-Fergie era, it seems that some fans have totally forgotten how great this club used to be, and have settled for being a meddling side who may scrape the odd second place finish (at best) if other teams are having an off season. Some were getting annoyed on here recently when we all weren't jumping for joy after barely beating an absolutely atrocious SU side at home. I've also seen poor second place finishes and 'one penalty kick away from winning the EL' being celebrated on here.

It's been a throughly depressing 11 years, littered with poor signings and poor managerial appointments. Yet, some will go out of their way to vigorously defend this abject mediocrity as though they have a duty to do so. Jose was the last man to try and set some standards, but he made a mess of it. Ralf maybe did too, but again, he was a disaster. Ole and ETH have been exposed as being totally and utterly our of their league, and yet, between them, they'll have gotten 5 seasons (at a minimum) and 700 or 800m to spend.

Watching how Glasner has transformed this Palace side in a matter of months, makes me think that we are stuck in a perpetual loop of misery. Don't forgot that he took over from Hodgson who had Palace playing some utterly awful stuff. Mateta barely looked a footballer under Hodgson, and he now has scored 9 times under Glasner since February. Maybe it's a new manager bounce, but they genuinely look a good side. Will fecking Hughes looks like prime Busquetes! Yet, we have a manager who clearly can't work with what he has, and can't improve players. He badly needs to go ASAP and INEOS badly need to be the ones who will sort this mess out.
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To me it appears Emery's success in Vila is actually the proof that the right manager can turn things around very quickly even with so called "average" players. Who suddenly become better footballers than ours, according to some parts of the caf.
 
stefan92 said:
I don't think it's a bounce. They didn't have the typical bounce wins when he joined, they are now getting results as his way of football is really put into the team (at least I assume, yesterday was the first time I actually watched a match of Glasner's Palace team and only checked results before). Actually the way the played looked very similar to his Frankfurt team that won the EL, so I think it's safe to assume that what we have seen yesterday is very close to what he wants to see and to their "true level" under him.
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And there he is, working with players who likely aren't even who/what he wants.
 
We’re going to see even more injuries now, and the currently injured ones will do disappearing acts.

No one is going to want to risk injury before the euros to play in a rout against arsenal Newcastle or city.
 
hobbers said:
We’re going to see even more injuries now, and the injured ones will do disappearing acts.

No one is going to want to risk injury before the euros to play in a rout against arsenal Newcastle or city.
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Players will be back for the final, magically, i have no doubt. There's no reason we can't beat City in a one off game if we play sensible tactics. League games I expect a lot of niggles and strains to be popping up.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I think it really shows how, for some, standards have been lowered to absolute rock bottom over the past 11 years. It's hard to even remember the ridiculously high standards that the great man set for this club, the fans and the players.

In the post-Fergie era, it seems that some fans have totally forgotten how great this club used to be, and have settled for being a meddling side who may scrape the odd second place finish (at best) if other teams are having an off season. Some were getting annoyed on here recently when we all weren't jumping for joy after barely beating an absolutely atrocious SU side at home. I've also seen poor second place finishes and 'one penalty kick away from winning the EL' being celebrated on here.

It's been a throughly depressing 11 years, littered with poor signings and poor managerial appointments. Yet, some will go out of their way to vigorously defend this abject mediocrity as though they have a duty to do so. Jose was the last man to try and set some standards, but he made a mess of it. Ralf maybe did too, but again, he was a disaster. Ole and ETH have been exposed as being totally and utterly our of their league, and yet, between them, they'll have gotten 5 seasons (at a minimum) and 700 or 800m to spend.

Watching how Glasner has transformed this Palace side in a matter of months, makes me think that we are stuck in a perpetual loop of misery. Don't forgot that he took over from Hodgson who had Palace playing some utterly awful stuff. Mateta barely looked a footballer under Hodgson, and he now has scored 9 times under Glasner since February. Maybe it's a new manager bounce, but they genuinely look a good side. Will fecking Hughes looks like prime Busquetes! Yet, we have a manager who clearly can't work with what he has, and can't improve players. He badly needs to go ASAP and INEOS badly need to be the ones who will sort this mess out.
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It's proof that Erik has failed his number one responsibility and perhaps the primary reason he was acquired at first instance and that's to effectively coach this team.

By his own admission in Neville's interview, he alluded that he was incapable of playing a specific system unless Frenkie De Jong was signed. It's absolutely pathetic that the entire identity of a team would hinge on one signing. If INEOS determine that they want United to play a specific way and hire a manager behind those intentions, Erik's experience shouldn't be used as an example to highlight a flaw in that approach.
 
Woziak said:
Let’s rate his signings;

Onana - 3.5/10 ; Cost CL Football this year
Bayinder - 4/10; Clearly not elite or he would have taken Onana Position
Tyrel Malacia - 3/10 never looked more than a Championship player and clearly too brittle for PL
Lysandro Martinez - 6.5/10 excellent first season but awful second, hardly available and guilty for mistakes when he played
Johnny Evans - 5.5/10 been one of our best CB’s this season when he’s played
Casemiro - 5/10 Very good first season, exceptionally bad second season, legs have gone no resale value and his £18m weekly wages are stinking the place out right now.
C Eriksen - 4/10 Ok first season, huge wages, legs have gone, week mentally
M Mount - 2/10 overpaid for a sick note, gave him number 7 shirt and could have got him free this summer, 1 goal 1 assist and less than 10 appearances
Antony - 0.5/10 Categorically the worst signing in the clubs history, no pace, no sublime skills, no assists, no goals just a short imp who actually believes he’s world class, the absolute worst kind of player, so bad I’d swap Di Maria or Alexis Sanchez even at their age right now for this numpty!
R Hoijlund - 4/10 has shown glimpses of elite ability but looks very undeveloped as an overall 9, can’t hold the ball up, not creative, doesn’t make the right runs in and out of the box and what’s with his weird T rex style runing style, He can be developed but first I’d get Usain Bolt to teach him to run first and you that explosive pace he clearly has, then get RVP in to show him to show up on games, but one to keep with Lysandro all the rest can go!
Amrabat - 3/10 not up to it , but should have been given more chances to play more regularly lucky it only cost a £9m loan fee.

Summary
ETH has actually done something most thought impossible, he’s signed players that are much worse than even David Moyes, I’d take Mata and Feillani over most of those in a heartbeat and now we can say that Moyes was not actually that bad!
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I rate this post lower than Antony his rating
 
FrankDrebin said:
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:lol: Spoiler that! Too early in the morning for jump scares!
 
evil_geko said:
Copium? Anyone with eyes can tell you that game was freakiest result in decades. From the get go? We literally matched Liverpool in the first half, did you even watch the fecking game? Only copium is using that game over and over as some sort of sign for things to come. You can use tons of other games for that, that Liverpool game is not it.
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Yes did you not think it was tactically naive of ETH to not play our most inform forward up against Trent who was being absolutely destroyed week in week out? He played Bruno out there for fecks sake. I said at the time I can't believe he would do that. Or that he played Weghorst as the number 10 behind Rashford
 
There has not been a single team in the last decade that finished top 3 with less than 65 goals except United. There have only been two teams that have finished top 6 outside of United (who have done it multiple times) with Chelsea (4th hanging on by one point and two points) and Southhampton (6th) overall with less than 60 goals. So for all these defensive excuses, nobody can sustainable finish top 6 without scoring at least 60 goals. For top 4 it´s closer to 70 goals.

ETH was not much better last year, he just fluked points even more than this year. But that was year one, so you can absolutely forgive him that. This year though you need to see the team push on from there. You need to see his imprints on the team and style of play, especially with another massive transfer window in the books. Then you´d even forgive a lower position like 4th or 5th, since the 3rd place was an overperformance in my book. Instead if we are honest he got massive contributions from unexpected places with youth (Mainoo, Garnacho) and undesirable (Maguire,McTominay) players. Those were not even accounted for, when the (pre) seasonal plan for the year was formed. So basically xG like 15th place, and that´s with massive contributions that weren´t even part of ETH´s seasonal plan.
 
Lay said:
Yes did you not think it was tactically naive of ETH to not play our most inform forward up against Trent who was being absolutely destroyed week in week out? He played Bruno out there for fecks sake. I said at the time I can't believe he would do that.
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He has this tendency to go full Pep in trying to be brilliant and doing something nobody else would have done in his place.

His problem is he's not Pep and there's maybe 5 people even on here deluded enough to believe that he can be Pep.
 
I do feel for him somewhat due to the injuries, but by all accounts it's also been reported he hasn't helped in that manner. It's extremely odd to have so many non contact muscle injuries..

Beyond that however the way the team is set up and the extremely recogniseable problems on the pitch that just seem to never be addressed game by game - regardless of personnel - is a massive massive worry, hell it's gone beyond that at this point. A system that apparently only works perfectly when you have 100% of your preferred players on the pitch is a terrible system i'm afraid. Why is it other teams with supposedly much worse players or other teams ravaged by injuries can still play to a recognisable way but we are an absolute shambles?
 
The most insane take in this thread has been that we haven‘t had the worst injuries this season. Yesterday was a matter of time: Evans and Casemiro aren‘t fit and can‘t cope.

Still, it is not working for Ten Hag and he should go as soon as possible along with certain players.
 
Maybe there is some contractual cat and mouse with Ajax and Bayern, kind of doubt it though, would be petty for what would be a small return?

Said before this team has about one game a month in them, with the Pool 4-3 win, maybe we can have players back and they can be up for the final. I'm sure ETH is gone but there is a lot to look at and some appointments have only happened recently. Seems fair to let the manager see out the final he got to. The league remainder is too difficult to put effort in they're so feeble as a group. The fitness/diets and training really needs changing.

It's really the end of an era, over a billion spent to have Evans and Case fumbling around while we get whacked 4-0 to a bottom half team, like it was written in the stars. A horror show of recruitment laid bare.
 
So much has been said and it's quite clear that ETH has nothing to offer the club, needs to negotiate a settlement and leave. His lack of managerial and coaching quality has been completely exposed.

How is he going to get a team ready for the game against Arsenal? We could be embarrassed. Again.

I do hope at some point in the future, someone sheds some light on the debacle which has become this season.
 
VP89 said:
Great. So he hasn't had the worst season in PL history. Feel free to post it if he does, I won't argue.
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Still 4 points to go but 1 game less to play. Race is on. Can he deliver a season better than 21-22, our worst ever?
 
Don't understand, with the injury list we have and how bad we been over season. Why didn't him and his coaching team change way we play over last couple of months.
Bad management that to not relise this isnt working, we have injuries let's tighten things up.

Even if we went in to games and sat back soak up pressure and play counter attack game and we got few decent results I think he be safe but clearly he is setting up his teams to fail with that style and not adapting to it.

Gung ho every game has cost him his job. Players don't look like they know what to do.

That Palace 1st goal last night is shocking. Local Sunday league players hungover do that type of stuff.
 
Think this is where we see the mismanagement seriously coming back to bite us. He wanted rid of Maguire and AWB but they are on such high wages we couldn't get rid anyway and an injury crisis has led to them being vital to him. This summer is going to be the same. Some of these players might still be here next season, not out of loyalty but because the greedy fecks care more about their wage packet than playing regular football. I now understand why SJR wants it that we sign cheaper players on lower wages, I will be fine with that, but some fans won't. They want their big signings.
 
I got so angry just having to watch his face on the telly yesterday.

Of all the managers we've had post SAF he's the first one I'm really starting to hate.

I had no time for Moyes, but I never hated him, LVG was a special character, sometimes over the top, but I respected him. Jose fought the wankers in the dressing room and despite his arrogance had my admiration for that, Ole will forever be in my heart, Ralf was competent but never got a chance here and then this fecker we have now came in!
It's not even the fact that we play shite football or lose as much as Everton, it's the fact that he is ALWAYS making excuses!
The ref, the injuries, bad luck, inexperince, it's always something else, but never him and his completely inept tactics or failed transfer policy, no it's always something other than him.

A coward and delusional manager/ head coach.
 
Xaviboy said:
Don't understand, with the injury list we have and how bad we been over season. Why didn't him and his coaching team change way we play over last couple of months.
Bad management that to not relise this isnt working, we have injuries let's tighten things up.

Even if we went in to games and sat back soak up pressure and play counter attack game and we got few decent results I think he be safe but clearly he is setting up his teams to fail with that style and not adapting to it.

Gung ho every game has cost him his job. Players don't look like they know what to do.

That Palace 1st goal last night is shocking. Local Sunday league players hungover do that type of stuff.
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Thing is with training, unless a player leaves and then says exactly what happens, either the general training or how players coming back or carrying injuries are trained we will never know. It might be the players do not train how he wants, it could be the medical care they get. Could be medical staff are saying players are fit when they aren't really. Who knows.
 
Born2Lose said:


Very interesting defence of McLaren from Michael Owen and Scholes.
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Interesting video but honestly I think we get smashed by City no matter who is in the dugout if Casemiro & Evans are our starting CBs and Eriksen has to play 90 minutes in midfield.

Steve McClaren will not save us from that fate. I also find it hard to believe the theory that McClaren has no input into coaching at all. Maybe he's just past it now, or the players aren't listening. I can't see it making a jot of difference if he takes over as interim.
 
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sugar_kane said:
Interesting video but honestly I think we get smashed by City no matter who is in the dugout if Casemiro & Evans are our starting CBs and Eriksen has to play 90 minutes in midfield.

Steve McClaren will not save us from that fate. I also find it hard to believe the theory that McClaren has no input into coaching at all. Maybe he's just past it now, or the players aren't listening. I can't see it making a jot of difference if he takes over as interim.
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I don't. I remember a bit of how a Steve McClaren team looks like and I see nothing of that here.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Sorry, but I don't think the players are purposefully pulling out of games.
They're unable to feature because they're injured.
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Rooney said this was happening under LVG I believe, I don't think it can be ruled out this season.
 
sugar_kane said:
Interesting video but honestly I think we get smashed by City no matter who is in the dugout if Casemiro & Evans are our starting CBs and Eriksen has to play 90 minutes in midfield.

Steve McClaren will not save us from that fate. I also find it hard to believe the theory that McClaren has no input into coaching at all. Maybe he's just past it now, or the players aren't listening. I can't see it making a jot of difference if he takes over as interim.
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Agree completely, and while not saying McLaren as an interim, I can't see how it could be much worse.

What surprised me is how highly Owen and Scholes seem to rate McLaren as a coach and how they seem to think that he's having little to no input as a coach under ten Hag.
 
We should be dusting off the Norwich scarfs and arrange to meet outside of Old Trafford. Pitchforks and bald mannequin heads instead of spoiled fruit.

But in all seriousness, he'll probably see out the season. I can accept that. But if INEOS do bottle sacking him after the final... :(
 
I initially clicked on give him until the end of the season before sacking but I've changed my mind.

I was Ineos, I'd sack him immediately after the Brighton game. Interim in place for one game against City (Rooney or somebody like that). That's our best chance of winning the cup.
 
adkb said:
oh great. SAF did it with Gibson so it must be easy as feck.

Winning games in 2024 is different than winning them back then. Things have changed, mentality has changed, our players havent.
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Yeah because Gibson is the player thats out of place in that midfield. Stick to Fifa.
 
There are three things he has doen that any single one should have resulted in a sacking.

Pushing for and signing antony. He is not a premier league player. he never will be.

Pushing for and signing onana. He is not a premier league goalie and never will be.

In both of these cases, everyone involved in the signings should be out of the club. No excuses, they are that bad, not just as players, but the amount of money they managed to 'negotiate' us paying for each of them.

In terms of last night, being hamstrung by having Case and Evens in defence, and still putting a third immobile player in front of them in the form of ericksen. It was clear from the second that team sheet came out what would happen. You needed runners sitting infront of those two, who could the tracking for them. Otherwise we would be just too open. And that is what we were.

Not only did it lead to that result, but you cannot keep putting Mainoo in those situations and think its not going to affect him. That kind of thing destroys confidence. And that is what we are doing to our best prosects.
 
Sarni said:
Still 4 points to go but 1 game less to play. Race is on. Can he deliver a season better than 21-22, our worst ever?
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He may well do. However, he probably won't. I told you I won't argue on facts, and he may well be on course for the worst ever.
 
I've been a big supporter of EtH but I think the nail in his coffin is he has chosen a way he wants to play and no matter what is sticking to it.

If he had shown some tactical flexibility to account for the amount of injuries we've had, firstly the results would not have been as bad, and secondly I think most sensible fans would accept that if results were poor it's mainly due to the injuries and would be open to him having another season to prove he is right man for the job. But he has persisted with this transition football which leaves huge holes in the centre of the park.

We should replace him in the summer, I don't think changing him now is going to make any difference, and I'm sure the club don't want the cost of hiring an interim and then a new permanent manager.

I do still think hiring someone new before our new structure is fully in place is a mistake because given our track record there is a very good chance someone coming in this summer wont be the ideal candidate for the new structure and we will then have to change again next summer or the summer after to get the manager our new structure wants / needs.
 
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