Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Sarni said:
How about 75 v 74 points?
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I think the quality of football also matters. The post covid 2019-2020 season was easily the best we have played post SAF despite that the results were hit and miss. We also finished comfortably second under Ole (on the season after that) while with EtH we were in a fight for UCL till the last match in his good season.

Both Ole and ETH were awful on their last season but EtH was somehow even more awful and the agony was twice as long considering that Ole got sacked on December.
 
VP89 said:
At Cardiff Ole had a big market of getting his own players and lost 15 out of 25 games. He failed, even by the clubs standards and ambition at the time.

Ole had 3 years at United, and he failed.

Ten Hag has only been at United 2 seasons, and if he got sacked this season he'd be given less time than what Ole had to prove himself.

What bit do you struggle with?
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Ole failed because the clowns sacked him! The results are an abandoned project and a new project which is now on the edge of a complete failure. If ETH was sacked earlier, it is surely deemed as failure, no?
 
Revan said:
I think the quality of football also matters. The post covid 2020-2021 season was easily the best we have played post SAF despite that the results were hit and miss. We also finished comfortably second under Ole (on the season after that) while with EtH we were in a fight for UCL till the last match in his good season.

Both Ole and ETH were awful on their last season but EtH was somehow even more awful and the agony was twice as long considering that Ole got sacked on December.
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I agree. However I think Mourinho’s 81-point season was best, followed by 20-21 and then 22-23.
 
NLunited said:
We are not Bayern or Madrid. Honestly, the delusion on here…
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Well we're not anymore that's for sure, due in no small part to the fact we keep hiring average or past it managers. And then giving them way too much time to slowly but surely help the Galzers run the club into the ground and lower expectations season on season.

United are a bigger club than Bayern, ten years ago we weren't too far behind Real by most metrics. Where we've lagged way behind both though is in ruthlessness and accepted minimum standards.
 
Sarni said:
I agree. However I think Mourinho’s 81-point season was best, followed by 20-21 and then 22-23.
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We looked very professional under Mourinho, but it was devoit of any excitement. The 19-20 end of season under Ole looked so good with Martial being on the verge of becoming a world class striker, with Rashford and Greenwood exploding on the wings, and Bruno looking like we had just signed Cantona 2.0.

Then on the next season, we accumulated more points but I do not remember thinking this looks like a team who is going to challenge. Ironically, it looked a lot like Mourinho’s second season, where we were getting lots of points and finishing comfortably second, but it was clear that is the absolute limit with those managers. I actually rate Mourinho’s first season higher than his second, despite finishing sixth instead of second (to be fair we won Europa and Mickey). On his first season we were inconsistent as feck, but when we were good we were good. On his second, we were consistently boring, getting points but looking like a team who has no chance on progressing further.

For what is worth, last season between the World Cup and Mickey Cup final looked very exciting, like this team has potential to become a great one. Like in Ole’s case (or even in LVG’s spell when we defeated City, Liverpool and Spurs within a month) it quickly became clear that it was an outlier, not something to build on, but something that randomly happened.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
If injuries are anything ETH related he won’t last beyond FA cup final. But it’s weird his coaching didn’t cause these issues last year
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He's changed the way we play this year, so it's possible he's changed his training methods up also.
 
city-puma said:
Ole failed because the clowns sacked him! The results are an abandoned project and a new project which is now on the edge of a complete failure. If ETH was sacked earlier, it is surely deemed as failure, no?
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Jose and Ole summer transfer windows before they were sacked killed them. Ronaldo was the nail in Oles coffin. Our football was so much better and consistent before ronaldo arrived

As bad as United managers have been at times , there’s plenty of bread crumbs to see how the club made a raging balls of stuff at different times.

Uniteds throw sh*t at a wall and “sign whatever big name sighing becomes available and we can get” has been a disaster.

I don’t understand why Ole is being brought into discussions. But as SJR said, they’ve all be let down by our sh*thead structure.

Doesn’t mean they did enough to keep their jobs or they couldn’t have done better. I hate how angry I’ve been at the glazers since they forced me to sell my shares in 00s. F^*king leeching c*nts.
 
stevoc said:
He's changed the way we play this year, so it's possible he's changed his training methods up also.
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If it really is his training that’s the primary issue you guys have only have 3 weeks to wait for him to be gone. That’s been one of the major reasons it’s been a sh.*tshow.
 
Sarni said:
Yeah, by a point. One point.

Also worth mentioning we dropped points in the 74-point season because a) we were resting players ahead of EL final, b) had to play 3 games in 4 days due to Covid reschedules and had to play our B team against Leicester.

Also scoring way fewer goals and having a much inferior goal difference.

But yeah that one point.
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So he did beat Ole's best in 3 seasons in just his debut season. Thanks for confirming. Also Ten Hag also had to play in a lot of cups, and rescheduled fixtures through the Queens demise and the World Cup final, but whatever. Point is, Ole had more than enough time.
Revan said:
Actually it was 3 years instead of 2. And he should have been sacked earlier.
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Yeah, 3 years. Ten Hag has had 2. And Ten Hag is a better coach, and I'm not being drawn into a nonsense debate again (for starters Ole isn't even much of a coach to begin with, he relied on delegation for tactics. He's a guy that wants to keep the camp happy and navigate wins but its never sustainable, and never enough for actually winning silverware).
Revan said:
Ole was better in the league than EtH though, it is not even close. And not as awful as EtH in Europe, despite being quite bad himself. And despite playing shit on a stick football, it was still better than EtH’s football.
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No. Just no. I believe the two have comparable points per game, with the exception for Ten Hag being he had far worse injuries this season and hasn't had an extra season to turn it around.
Revan said:
The only thing EtH has on Ole is winning the Mickey Cup. It hurts me to say this considering that I thought (and said it here) that Ole a) should not have gotten the permanent job, b) should have been sacked after getting eliminated in UCL from RedBull in group stage, c) should have been sacked after finishing second in the league, d) should have been sacked months earlier than he got sacked, especially after that humiliating 5-0 defeat (which EtH somehow managed to get a higher humiliation).
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Ten Hag is a better coach than Ole. If I'm not mistaken their league form is actually similar in points per game, but Ten Hag has fought with far worse injuries and didnt have 3 years in the job to get things corrected.
I agree the CL run was a debacle, but he's had one year in the CL.
Revan said:
Ole was an unimaginable disaster. And still better than the current disaster in charge.
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Again, no.
 
VP89 said:
Brilliant another Ole vs Ten Hag debate. Been here many times but il summarise in by highlighting ten hag hit two finals, one cup and a higher point tally in one year than Ole did in 3.5. This debate is not worth my time, with respect.

If Ole had Ten Hag's injuries in his final Year I genuinely think we'd be close to relegation.
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It’s not an Ole vs Eth debate. I am just pointing out that Ole was sacked duly once we started to struggle really badly. He was not given the whole season to try and recover the position like Eth has been given this season.
If you want to compare points total, Eth did have us finish 1 point more than Ole’s best season. Also, he is on course to have our worst PL finish in a decade.

You can assume all you want to regarding how Ole would have performed with our current team and injuries, but the fact is Eth has us performing horribly. The performances and results should get him sacked and no one can have any complaints if he is booted out at the end of the season. Although based on what we are hearing, it’s likely we will be sacrificing next season too to give another chance to a failing manager.
 
NK86 said:
It’s not an Ole vs Eth debate. I am just pointing out that Ole was sacked duly once we started to struggle really badly. He was not given the whole season to try and recover the position like Eth has been given this season.
If you want to compare points total, Eth did have us finish 1 point more than Ole’s best season. Also, he is on course to have our worst PL finish in a decade.


You can assume all you want to regarding how Ole would have performed with our current team and injuries, but the fact is Eth has us performing horribly. The performances and results should get him sacked and no one can have any complaints if he is booted out at the end of the season. Although based on what we are hearing, it’s likely we will be sacrificing next season too to give another chance to a failing manager.
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For me the writing is on the wall when the players outright stop believing and running for the manager all together. That happened under Ole quite visibly, and has never happened for Ten Hag, despite how shite we look. We're always huffing and puffing and running for the coach it looks (Rashford aside).
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
If it really is his training that’s the primary issue you guys have only have 3 weeks to wait for him to be gone. That’s been one of the major reasons it’s been a sh.*tshow.
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There's no guarantee anything will change in 3 weeks time win or lose the Cup final.
 
VP89 said:
So he did beat Ole's best in 3 seasons in just his debut season. Thanks for confirming. Also Ten Hag also had to play in a lot of cups, and rescheduled fixtures through the Queens demise and the World Cup final, but whatever. Point is, Ole had more than enough time.

Yeah, 3 years. Ten Hag has had 2. And Ten Hag is a better coach, and I'm not being drawn into a nonsense debate again (for starters Ole isn't even much of a coach to begin with, he relied on delegation for tactics. He's a guy that wants to keep the camp happy and navigate wins but its never sustainable, and never enough for actually winning silverware).

No. Just no. I believe the two have comparable points per game, with the exception for Ten Hag being he had far worse injuries this season and hasn't had an extra season to turn it around.

Ten Hag is a better coach than Ole. If I'm not mistaken their league form is actually similar in points per game, but Ten Hag has fought with far worse injuries and didnt have 3 years in the job to get things corrected.
I agree the CL run was a debacle, but he's had one year in the CL.

Again, no.
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Is a better coach, based on what? The team looks like the worst coached team in the league. He seems to not even have the idea that you need a midfield in EPL, and pretty much every time we score it is based on players doing something good, not the team doing something good.

Ole coached the team to play shit on a stick. EtH coached the team to play shit on a stick, while also believing that the middle of the pitch is some sacred ground that no player is allowed to be.
 
Surely no-one can look at the body of signings and how this season has gone and truly believe a 3rd season is justified?

We haven't made one signing that you could even come close to saying was a definite sucess.

Martinez and Casemiro having woeful second seasons.
Hojlund obviously way too early to be the main striker.
Mount barely played a game.
Malachia reasonable then misses a whole season mysteriously.
Antony an absolutely ludicrous transfer fee.
Onana has been very mixed and still has it all to prove.
The short term loanees - woeful.

None of those signings have cleared up any issue we have, yet cost about 400m

Relying on Maguire and McTom after clearly trying to bin them just makes it more comedy really, but not really a laughing matter.
 
Revan said:
Is a better coach, based on what? The team looks like the worst coached team in the league. He seems to not even have the idea that you need a midfield in EPL, and pretty much every time we score it is based on players doing something good, not the team doing something good.

Ole coached the team to play shit on a stick. EtH coached the team to play shit on a stick, while also believing that the middle of the pitch is some sacked ground that no player is allowed to be.
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Based on the fact that he delegated the actual coaching side to Mckenna and Carrick, that he openly devalued the value of tactics in winning games, the fact that his view on the sport is incredibly simple and stuck in the 90's way of playing.

Ten Hag is actually a coach who can drill teams to play a certain style (and this is where his *less* relevant but not completely unrelated stint at previous clubs comes in the mix). He's changed styles and adapted to losing certain players and maintained certain characteristics and gameplans. With us, he adapted well last year, and this year its all looking lost. However there is a ton of context attached to this season, that are a mix of him and circumstance. That being said, he's still quite clearly a better coach than Ole.

There's a reason Ole can maybe get the Canada job at an absolute stretch while Ten Hag is on a 3 man shortlist for the full time role at Bayern.
 
NK86 said:
It’s not an Ole vs Eth debate. I am just pointing out that Ole was sacked duly once we started to struggle really badly. He was not given the whole season to try (and fail) and recover the position like Eth has been given this season.
If you want to compare points total, Eth did have us finish 1 point more than Ole’s best season. Also, he is on course to have our worst PL finish in a decade.

You can assume all you want to regarding how Ole would have performed with our current team and injuries, but the fact is Eth has us performing horribly. The performances and results should get him sacked and no one can have any complaints if he is booted out at the end of the season. Although based on what we are hearing, it’s likely we will be sacrificing next season too to give another chance to a failing manager.
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He tried but he failed.
 
VP89 said:
Based on the fact that he delegated the actual coaching side to Mckenna and Carrick, that he openly devalued the value of tactics in winning games, the fact that his view on the sport is incredibly simple and stuck in the 90's way of playing.

Ten Hag is actually a coach who can drill teams to play a certain style (and this is where his *less* relevant but not completely unrelated stint at previous clubs comes in the mix). He's changed styles and adapted to losing certain players and maintained certain characteristics and gameplans. With us, he adapted well last year, and this year its all looking lost. However there is a ton of context attached to this season, that are a mix of him and circumstance. That being said, he's still quite clearly a better coach than Ole.

There's a reason Ole can maybe get the Canada job at an absolute stretch while Ten Hag is on a 3 man shortlist for the full time role at Bayern.
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I agree with Ole's views being a bit simplistic, but where did you get that Bayern want to hire Ten Hag?!
 
Would any other Premier League side want him as a manager? I imagine not a single club would want him on the evidence of this season, where’s he been afforded far more time than most managers get.
 
stevoc said:
He tried but he failed.
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He was sacked 12 games into a season. Likely we would have kept floundering but there’s no way to say with absolute certainty if we would not have recovered to be in a better position than what we ended up under Ragnick.

Eth has been given a whole season to improve our performances and fortune, yet he has failed miserably at both. The “try and failed” comment fits him far more than Ole, who actually had us finish a respectable 3rd and 2nd in his 2 full season (and I am one of those who believes he was way out of his depth as a coach and manager of Manchester United).
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
WIth this many injuries due in great part to his training methods, is there any reason why that guy should stay beyond his expiry date... which was already passed a while ago?
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Please paste a link to your source of Ten Hag‘s training methods causing the injuries.
 
Atheist said:
Would any other Premier League side want him as a manager? I imagine not a single club would want him on the evidence of this season, where’s he been afforded far more time than most managers get.
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Would any side in the world be interested in hiring him after this season and matching his current salary of £180-200,000k per week?
 
NK86 said:
He was sacked 12 games into a season. Likely we would have kept floundering but there’s no way to say with absolute certainty if we would not have recovered to be in a better position than what we ended up under Ragnick.

Eth has been given a whole season to improve our performances and fortune, yet he has failed miserably at both. The “try and failed” comment fits him far more than Ole, who actually had us finish a respectable 3rd and 2nd in his 2 full season (and I am one of those who believes he was way out of his depth as a coach and manager of Manchester United).
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I was talking about Ten Hag mate. He's been given an entire season to recover a really bad position, a luxury none of his predecessers were afforded. But things have got arguably worse, yet you still have suggestions he should get even more time.
 
VP89 said:
So he did beat Ole's best in 3 seasons in just his debut season. Thanks for confirming. Also Ten Hag also had to play in a lot of cups, and rescheduled fixtures through the Queens demise and the World Cup final, but whatever. Point is, Ole had more than enough time.
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You certainly seem to put a lot of value in 1 point despite lower league finish and a vastly inferior goal difference which many would say far outweigh the importance of 1 point. But given how much effort you have already put into protecting ETH it’s only natural to retort to such a ridiculous take.

I bet you won’t place nearly the same amount of weight on the extra 6-7 points (possibly more) we will have got in Ole’s worst of his two full seasons over this year though. Right? Just like you feel 15 extra goals is ‘slightly more’ whereas 1 point is a lot.
 
Sarni said:
You certainly seem to put a lot of value in 1 point despite lower league finish and a vastly inferior goal difference which many would say far outweigh the importance of 1 point. But given how much effort you have already put into protecting ETH it’s only natural to retort to such a ridiculous take.
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I put value in the fact that it took him only 1 season :lol:. I'm so sorry Goal Difference isn't seen as a primary metric for league positioning. It must hurt you that you can't really rely on it moreso than points but you need to suck it up a bit mate.

Ten Hag ultimately outdid Ole's ceiling and it took him 1 season, like it or lump it.
 
VP89 said:
I put value in the fact that it took him only 1 season :lol:. I'm so sorry Goal Difference isn't seen as a primary metric for league positioning. It must hurt you that you can't really rely on it moreso than points but you need to suck it up a bit mate.

Ten Hag ultimately outdid Ole's ceiling and it took him 1 season, like it or lump it.
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By a point :lol:
 
stevoc said:
Well we're not anymore that's for sure, due in no small part to the fact we keep hiring average or past it managers. And then giving them way too much time to slowly but surely help the Galzers run the club into the ground and lower expectations season on season.

United are a bigger club than Bayern, ten years ago we weren't too far behind Real by most metrics. Where we've lagged way behind both though is in ruthlessness and accepted minimum standards.
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Hopefully we are changing that now with new football structure hires in place.

Whether Ten Hag stays is up to the people in charge now. He has not shown much to make a strong case for staying in terms of performances this season.

He is certainly not an average manager. If INEOS decides he is staying, it must be because of the work he is doing behind the scenes.
 
VP89 said:
I put value in the fact that it took him only 1 season :lol:. I'm so sorry Goal Difference isn't seen as a primary metric for league positioning. It must hurt you that you can't really rely on it moreso than points but you need to suck it up a bit mate.

Ten Hag ultimately outdid Ole's ceiling and it took him 1 season, like it or lump it.
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By 1 point while finishing lower. :lol:
 
stevoc said:
Would any side in the world be interested in hiring him after this season and matching his current salary of £180-200,000k per week?
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If he reduced his wage demands, I suspect there’d be suitors in the Dutch league. I imagine Bayern fans aren’t too pleased about being linked with him. He might have done well with their B team but signing a failed manager would seem like a crazy move, albeit not out of question with the recent decisions their hierarchy have made.
 
VP89 said:
And a cup.

And it only took him one season :lol:
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Took him only two to lead us to the worst season in our PL history. Guess last season was too early for him to cause the damage.
 
stevoc said:
Well we're not anymore that's for sure, due in no small part to the fact we keep hiring average or past it managers. And then giving them way too much time to slowly but surely help the Galzers run the club into the ground and lower expectations season on season.

United are a bigger club than Bayern, ten years ago we weren't too far behind Real by most metrics. Where we've lagged way behind both though is in ruthlessness and accepted minimum standards.
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This is it
 
Sarni said:
Took him only two to see us have the worst season in our PL history. Guess last season was too early for him to cause the damage.
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I think the worst season in our PL history is ironically Ole's last where he fecked the squad with so much player power no interim coach could implement any discipline. This season we're poor - with a feckton of injuries and no operating structure. Back to your absolute nonsense point though - Ole had 3 years, Ten Hag has only had 2. So no, I do not think Ole should have had more time :wenger:
 
VP89 said:
With a feckton of injuries and no operating structure above him. Back to your absolute nonsense point though - Ole had 3 years, Ten Hag has only had 2. So no, I do not think Ole should have had more time :wenger:
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Still, the worst season in PL history. The worst.
 
Sarni said:
Still, the worst season in PL history. The worst.

Also at this point it’s pretty clear he has had his part in injuries.
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Nah, not quite. Ole's final season was the worst
Also the worst injuries. The worst.

If we dont get more than 4pts between now and the end of this season, you can say we were worse than Ole's final season. Otherwise you'll have to deal with it.
 
VP89 said:
Based on the fact that he delegated the actual coaching side to Mckenna and Carrick, that he openly devalued the value of tactics in winning games, the fact that his view on the sport is incredibly simple and stuck in the 90's way of playing.

Ten Hag is actually a coach who can drill teams to play a certain style (and this is where his *less* relevant but not completely unrelated stint at previous clubs comes in the mix). He's changed styles and adapted to losing certain players and maintained certain characteristics and gameplans. With us, he adapted well last year, and this year its all looking lost. However there is a ton of context attached to this season, that are a mix of him and circumstance. That being said, he's still quite clearly a better coach than Ole.

There's a reason Ole can maybe get the Canada job at an absolute stretch while Ten Hag is on a 3 man shortlist for the full time role at Bayern.
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I think that Ole was a bad manager and him not coaching the squad should have been a sackable offense by itself.

But I just do not see how EtH is a better coach than pretty much anyone. What has he done to be called a good coach? I’ve seen team that cost less than Antony come and play circle around us at Old Trafford. I’ve seen him being out coached by literal dinosaurs like Roy Hodgson from all people. This EtH is a good coach seems more like a wishful thinking and then saying it too many times in the hope that everyone starts believing rather than being grounded in reality.

Also there is nothing to suggest that Bayern has him in top 3. And their top 3 is not the real top 3 considering that Nagelsmann and Rangnick already rejected Bayern. And even if it is, the same Bayern hired fecking Kovac recently, so it does not mean much.
 
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