True. It is one competition where you don’t worry too much when you are eliminated.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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4 points don’t come easy for us.
Ten Hag joined and the global scouts were sacked, the CEO was checked out, we had Will Keane's brother negotiating deals, etc.
Both had shit structures given it was Glazers, but Ole had more windows and effectively a better shake
It's listed as a major trophy. I agree its behind the FA Cup, PL and Champions League though.
Leicester won the cup when they beat us. They weren’t minnows.
Wolves also very good that year they eliminated us. Finished higher than we currently are. Also not minnows.
We have 7 points in the last 6 matches mate. The remaining four matches are against Palace away (whom beat us at home), against Arsenal who are so much better, against Newcastle who have won 2 and draw 1 against EtH, and against Brighton whom defeated us in all three matches with EtH in charge.
But even if this happens and we had our worst ever season, you’ll still be worshipping him. Right?
In Football Manager?
I didn't say they were minnows, you don't win cups by only beating minnows on the way. Even Ten Hag had to face an in form Brighton or a Newcastle side that went on for a CL finish.
Point being, these teams were beatable, and Ole didn't beat them. Ten Hag got his job done.
Here we go again... bigging up the league cup win in one of the easiest runs ever
I've tried to be respectable with you but you're seriously deluded if you think someone worshipping Ten Hag just because he's better than Ole as a manager
fecking hell
We had people here last year who were claiming that we had a better season than Arsenal, cause the history books remember only the trophies.
It was pathetic.
I do not care whom out of those two is the better manager. Both of them have been terrible managers for us.I've tried to be respectable with you but you're seriously deluded if you think someone worshipping Ten Hag just because he's better than Ole as a manager
fecking hell
You are the one who act like EtH is your family.
What makes him a good coach. Keep in mind, we've established seasons in small leagues don't count.
We have?
You have it wrong. Achievements count, experience doesn’t.
Great, but our sub debate had them two as a basis for comparison, so I'm just sticking to what we were talking about.
How so? You're exaggerating a bit unnecessarily. My stance on Ten Hag has been stated before but for your information, I'm more indifferent about his sack at this stage.
I mean at this stage its clear you just struggle to read or you're a WUM. I'll let you decide which one.
But eth got most of his targets so how is that worse than before like Ole having Ronaldo forced on him and screwed it all up for him?
I mean, read the posts again. There needs to be a proper scouting set-up at the club and proper negotiators on the table in order to support the manager, and overlay his targets with more researched ones. Us relying on Ten Hag for his limited experience of players shows how this was a big problem.
After all we have an assistant coach that has won the Dutch league. So maybe its not as much of an achievement for ETH.
Winning the dutch league is an achievement, just not a massive one. Especially with Ajax. I dont have any arguments there.
Should I quote you back?
I didn't say experience in small leagues counts as zero. I'm saying he had zero experience in a big league. He did have experience and pedigree embedding great systems in Holland, which counts as something. But transcending that to a big league is an entirely different beast and something he has no experience in doing, he'd need to learn how to adapt to big personalities, more politics and far bigger pressure.
Fair enough mate.
I'm not hypothetically giving him two cups though. You're saying it's an achievement that Ten Hag has got to 3 finals. Ok, my point is only that Ole probably would have matched that had he not met Man City in the Semi finals 2 years in a row.
Ten Hag got beat by Man City in a final/s instead of semi-finals. I don't really see the difference.
And I'm not just saying this because It's Ten Hag. I put little stock in the Europa League final Solskjaer got to either because we lost.
"Freefalling" Chelsea ahead of Erik Ten Hag's Manchester United now.
Some people should just let other people have their own opinion and stop trying to “win” the argument.
Well, that's the point. He's unproven in a big league, so why should we persist after this disaster class of a season?
Your argument is about not being a 'bad' coach but there's no evidence to the contrary when it comes to managing at United's level. We have the money and pedigree not to need to take such risks with someone who's shown not to be up to the job on pretty much every parameter for a whole season.
I won't even get into him saying we need a fully fit squad for a top 4 challenge. Even purely in financial terms, it's too much of a risk to keep him next season when that no-CL in consecutive years will kick in and we're, more than ever, at risk of not making it with so many clubs making forward strides.
The biggest damning statement of this Ten Hag era, is if he went tomorrow we'd still need players in absolutely every single position of the pitch.
Hopefully the new management team can get the success rate on transfers up from an arguable 1 in 10 being a success to maybe having 2 or 3 !
Hopefully the new management team can get the success rate on transfers up from an arguable 1 in 10 being a success to maybe having 2 or 3 !
A very important observation in being able to adjust in any field or profession. I would say at this point it's a guarantee that Erik is incapable of doing so because he has demonstrated in his character the constraint of lacking accountability. Introspection is the only way you can progress when you reach certain stumbling blocks, this is why United have been unable to kick on this season it's not injuries alone but the application and game dynamics set by the manager.
I would implore any fan to look at the metrics of the Wolves performance at the beginning of the season and use it as a barometer to compare how the narrative has contrasted between United then (fully fit 11) and United with injuries. Both teams under those prospective circumstances are the same when highlighting the cohesive performances.
This for me is where the injury excuse is undone, you can look at Newcastle they possess a archetypal method within their team as a framework that is successful with fit players. So in the event of picking up injuries there's a clear dissemination in what attempt to typically do. No such equivalence is prevalent with this United team, the team and manager operates at the same level irrespective.
That is where Erik's argument for this seasons failings is undone, he has done absolutely nothing to set a performance orientated standard where the extent of injuries diminish the supposed standard he would have augmented. His excuses make sense at surface level but we must apply critical thinking and that's where everything dismantles.
I think for most of us the real concern is that Chelsea has been gelling piece by piece with their young squad. It’s a process we can see it’s happening and will very likely fulfill huge potential someday. They just need to add the extra missing pieces. For us, the process doesn’t look promising at all. People praise ETH plays some youngsters. My biggest problem is that it’s only two, Garnacho and Mainoo. Arteta played many many more and gave them plenty of minutes since taking the job. Just think Amad’s situation. Unbelievable.
One of the reasons why I mostly just read posts here and hardly don't post myself.
I would back Erik if he said something along the lines of:
"This season has a been a failure due to our approach. Me and my staff made critical errors in successfully implementing a new system veering from what we did in the previous campaign. Injuries haven't helped with our transition however, we recognize that deficiencies in midfield and the spaces we are vulnerable too have lost us majority of the games this season. By thorough review and data to match we have seen this has been caused by XYZ"
That is the conversation of success, it's not excusing the sight of failure but objectifying the reasons for it.
"This season has a been a failure due to our approach. Me and my staff made critical errors in successfully implementing a new system veering from what we did in the previous campaign. Injuries haven't helped with our transition however, we recognize that deficiencies in midfield and the spaces we are vulnerable too have lost us majority of the games this season. By thorough review and data to match we have seen this has been caused by XYZ"
That is the conversation of success, it's not excusing the sight of failure but objectifying the reasons for it.
Absolutely This at this point it's 10 pages a day of the same shit by the same posters, go to the.pub, go for a walk, go get laid anything else apart from this
winning it with Twente was a big achievement, winning it with Ajax not so much, especially with the team he had which was put together by Overmars.
This thread is a parody of itself at this point. It's literally littered with wums.
Wonder what they've been discussing about ?
"Hello Jason, I need players, eh ?"
"Hello Jason, I need players, eh ?"
Like he would shit talk Murtough/Arnold in public. He was being diplomatic.
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