Well by all means edify me with your insider knowledge.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Well by all means edify me with your insider knowledge.
With the talent in the squad and the resources at the disposal of the manager 70+ points should never be considered some amazing accomplishment.
What are we doing here? We have one of the biggest wage bills and transfer budgets in football. Squad full of international players yet somehow we should feel lucky if we finish above Newcastle.
I agree with that to be fair. Under right circumstances he could be a good coach. I just think he needs a number of things to work almost perfectly for him to be at his best and we are not the kind of environment where this is likely to happen anytime soon, we must have someone more flexible and able to adapt. Basically given our frailties and limitations we need someone who is able to get the best out of available resources, he’s not that type of manager as he’s too stubborn.
Unbelievable to think United might finish the season with a minus goal difference 
We also didn't expect to be humiliated 7-0 by our biggest rivals. It was an overall decent season of ups and downs. Something to build on, not something incredible.
My take on his time is one decent season carried by Rashford and Casemiro and one horrific disaster to follow once they went off the boil.
Post is edited. By the way Melissa Reddy in the vid posted earlier also insinuates strongly he's had to deal with a feck ton that is probably not recognised in the right weight by casual fans, and that's why a lot at the club want him to succeed. He's not handling his defence well though.
Go back and look at where neutrals predicted the season - we were backed to be in top 4 by something like 8% of the predictions. You can also go back to the Overlap pre season stuff for fan sentiment, the standard skysports season predictors etc.
Not only did he walk top 4, with a very good tally (his first year had what, our 3rd highest point rank since SAF?), he also hit two finals and did manage to win a cup.
You ask what are we doing here - we are appearing to be in a rabbit hole debate because some posters (not you to be fair) hate the man so much that they don't want anyone to say Ten Hag isnt a bad manager, even if they agree he's not going to be around for us.
Our League Form Up Until the League Cup Win:
Our League Form After the Cup Win:
All League Form Since the Cup Win:
I imagine we'll be in negative GD on the bottom table when the season is over.
Games | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Pts Per Game |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
24 | 15 | 4 | 5 | 41 | 28 | 13 | 49 | 2.04 |
Our League Form After the Cup Win:
Games | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Pts Per Game |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
14 | 8 | 2 | 4 | 17 | 15 | 2 | 26 | 1.86 |
All League Form Since the Cup Win:
Games | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Pts Per Game |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
48 | 24 | 8 | 16 | 69 | 66 | 3 | 80 | 1.67 |
You can see that it's been a downward spiral and our form since the Cup Win has really not been good. Yes in those 14 games we did manage to pick up a decent amount of points (Villa, City, Arsenal, Newcastle and Liverpool had higher Pts Per Game in the same range) but you can see the GD rot began at this point. It's simply continued and gotten worse this season. It's far more accurate to say that Ten Hag had a good first half of the season and the clubs good form ended with that Cup Win. Irrespective of reaching two finals, cup runs are not a good way to show a clubs progress and form.I imagine we'll be in negative GD on the bottom table when the season is over.
I don't give a feck about isolated results. He still had a very good season in totality.
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I’ve shown earlier how we’ve already improved by a goal per game extra in attack from the start of the season to now. We are averaging 2.3 goals for per game. With an inexperienced front 2/3. That’s impressive.
We now need to sort out exactly what we all can see and what Ten Hag has also been saying defence and midfield which can only properly happen with better players. Evans, Lindelof, McTominay are never going to be the guys.
I disagree. Did you know for example even Antony is in the top 10 chance creators for wingers in the big 5 leagues?
Source:https://football-observatory.com/MonthlyReport94
He doesn’t decide the fee and the fee for the likes of Antony isn’t his fault. He initially wanted a striker, was told we couldn’t get one so settled for another wide option. The clubs inability to negotiate shouldn’t be on Ten Hag. I also maintain there wasn’t a clearly better left footed RW option that would have joined us that window.
Hardly Ten Hags fault that we lost Greenwood and so were desperate for forward options.
So why don’t we finally hold the player accountable and improve that aspect first. Otherwise we replace Ten Hag and it’s another clean slate for them. The personnel are not good enough.
When Ten Hag’s team have sat back deeper and relied on blocks everyone here is moaning about the shots conceded (irrespective of the fact they are low quality, rarely make it on target and aren’t the same as conceding big chances).
For what it’s worth @RedRocket08 I think you’re completely reasonable to believe all of what you have said.
He won the Bundesliga because Dortmund bottled it on the last day. He was widely criticised all season for it.
Winning with PSG is hardly an achievement.
I guess we just fundamentally disagree on what a very good season looks like at Manchester United. It was decent and nothing more for me.
Under the right circumstances all our ex managers can do far better.
We should be realistic and stop wishing for SAF mark 2. Manager comes and go their life shelf is only 3-5 at max. We should be ready to cut our loss if they dont show massive improvement in 6 months.
It was definitely not just decent. But we can just leave it there.
Don't like the whole generic "this is what a good season at United should be". The club was in free fall before he came and there's very little that could be done to achieve and even stronger first year. Have better form at the end of the season? Yeah sure. Not have a terrible 45 vs Liverpool? Ok sure.
I’d love to know how these ‘structural issues’ impact ETH’s team selection, tactical set up & in game management. All of which have been absolutely horrific all season. And all of which were pointed out could be a flaw of his before he even took the job by our resident Eredivisie followers.
It’s just another buzzword with no real meaning for his fans to hide behind while they bury their heads deeper and deeper in the sand. They’re losing the plot almost as much as he is.
It’s just another buzzword with no real meaning for his fans to hide behind while they bury their heads deeper and deeper in the sand. They’re losing the plot almost as much as he is.
He's actively made it worse for himself though with poor tactics, poor subs and poor in game adjustments. Do you think our players weak mentality in crunch time doesn't on some level come from the manager as well?
He might not be bad but he is too stubborn to succeed at the very top level i think.
I do support that notion to be honest. We should be quick to ditch managers like all other top clubs are.
Im in agreement about tactics. Should have tweaked long ago. Although I'd like him to have one more season I have no arguments or complaints of he leaves, and it's for the reasons you highlighted.
No, it's just that it's completely irrelevant to Manchester United if he's a "bad" manager or not. It's deflecting from the real issue. I don't care if he's hired by Borussia or Ajax as his next job and does well for them. It doesn't change the fact that he's been serving shit on a stick football for over a year with us with some spectacularly bad results.
I don't think you've followed the points very well. You want him gone because of prolonged bad results and performances, I won't argue with that. It's just Not really related to what I said.
That depends on your definition of bad. Plenty more decorated managers than Ten Hag have pretty poor reputations within the game now.
Maybe he won't be considered 'bad' in his next job depending on the level he comes back in at but it isn't unfair to suggest he's been bad at Man Utd.
Agree completely, its almost unheard of to get a Klopp or to have the set up that City have to get someone like pep in, SAF wasnt a once in a generation, he is once in a lifetime kids born today will not likely see a better manager than him so we are chasing an impossible dream if we think we will find another SAF. Never again, maybe in 200 years.
So I am of the opinion that managers should be given a max of 2 years to prove themselves but only if there are genuine signs that they need more time.
Not if they are 6 months in and we still cant anchor ourselves on a style, methodology or a tangible improvement we should simply cut ties and move on.
I actually think managers should only ever have 2 year contracts.
Well end of Feb onwards is quite a big chunk of the season.
And when those performances essentially carriy on for the entirety of the following season I don't think we should keep dismissing it by saying all of last season was very good. A good section of it wasn't.
They don't. When people mention 'structure' really what they are saying is better recruitment.
Rob Dawson wants to give him another year based on the conclusion that "he can't be a bad manager". It is irrelevant if he's a "bad" manager in absolute terms. The prolonged bad results and performances make him a bad manager for us. We've sacked "better" managers than him.
69 goals in 48 games (1.4 pg) is horrendous.
Breaking Bad records (repeatedly)
I'm amazed managers of the past managed to put out anything more than a Sunday League team given technical directors, directors of football etc. didn't even exist then. Never mind huge numbers of backroom staff and any game in the world available to watch from your office chair.
Hag in the Middle (of the table).
Unbelievable to think United might finish the season with a minus goal difference
Makes sense, we have always struggled for goals on ETH and now he can't seem to set up a defence as well.
Correct.
Kenny Dalglish reached The League Cup and FA Cup final in 2012, but their league form was poor. I was never in fear of Liverpool going anywhere under him. And, like ten Hag, their recuitment around that time was awful. They spent big money on Henderson, Downing, Adam, Carroll, etc. Only Henderson offered value long term.
Koeman won The Copa del Rey with Valencia in 2008, but was still sacked due to poor league form and performances.
Juande Ramos delivered a rare trophy for Spurs in 2008. They finished 11th in the league and he was moved on early the following season.
Solskjaer generally went on deep cup runs at United. Both domestically and in Europe. But I never felt that we were going anywhere with him in terms of eventually winning The PL or making a CL final.
Can they just sack him please so I can enjoy the next game?
This is why I asked for this poll, @Raoul . I had a feeling it would provide different results to the last.
I believe, on the previous poll, 26% were in favour of keeping him on for another season. Now, there's around a 11% increase, so a fair few people who, in the previous poll, voted "no" in wanting him to get another season are fine with him at least seeing out this one.
If we had nothing to play for, I'd get it, but we have a final against City. I get the sentiment that he managed us to the final so he should get to actually manage us for it, and that it would be seen as "classless" to replace him just before it, but we have to be ruthless if we want to win trophies. In my opinion, anyway. If the 11% want him out eventually, I don't see why they'd want to leave our one chance at a trophy in his hands.
I believe, on the previous poll, 26% were in favour of keeping him on for another season. Now, there's around a 11% increase, so a fair few people who, in the previous poll, voted "no" in wanting him to get another season are fine with him at least seeing out this one.
If we had nothing to play for, I'd get it, but we have a final against City. I get the sentiment that he managed us to the final so he should get to actually manage us for it, and that it would be seen as "classless" to replace him just before it, but we have to be ruthless if we want to win trophies. In my opinion, anyway. If the 11% want him out eventually, I don't see why they'd want to leave our one chance at a trophy in his hands.
Bad means bad, regardless of injuries. I have never seen a manager who is so bad with signings. Antony is a expensive flop, Mount has zero impact in the games and even he is fit, ETH rather start Eriksen, Onana can be brilliant but yet conceding stupid goals, Malacia is injury for almost a season now, Martinez is another injury prone small CB that he buys, Hoijund is a young player not ready to lead the front line. Expensive Amrabat loan sitting on the bench. Aging and slow Casemiro and Eriksen. It is beyond words on the damage he has done in short 2 years. Hiring Ten Hag has set us back another 3 reason, we need a miracle to get back to winning way. Whoever replaced ETH will have their hands full with addressing the issues that he has created.
This club has been run as a commercial milk cow for over a decade now; managers are hired and fired based on financial considerations, like attaining CL and having to accommodate ‚star‘ players that are over the hill but have commercial appeal.
We have barely begun the process of making football the priority, but it will take longer than a few years.
I don‘t believe this is being done to become more successful for the fans, but because the former approach won‘t get us CL football anymore because other teams are better run and performing better.
We have barely begun the process of making football the priority, but it will take longer than a few years.
I don‘t believe this is being done to become more successful for the fans, but because the former approach won‘t get us CL football anymore because other teams are better run and performing better.
During the 18/19 season, we had a similar number of injuries and finished 6th. https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/06/1...uries-each-club-suffered-during-201819-season
We also sacked Mourinho halfway through the season. I’m sure no one started using injuries as an excuse to give him another season, and we were also more decisive in taking action there. No one debates we were wrong to sack him. Injuries simply cannot be used as excuses to reward managers with another season at the helm. What if we have a similar number of injuries next year? Are we going to make similar excuses again?
We also sacked Mourinho halfway through the season. I’m sure no one started using injuries as an excuse to give him another season, and we were also more decisive in taking action there. No one debates we were wrong to sack him. Injuries simply cannot be used as excuses to reward managers with another season at the helm. What if we have a similar number of injuries next year? Are we going to make similar excuses again?
And now we’re back in free fall, heading for our worst ever Premier League season with the squad in as bad a state as when he joined and playing worst tactics we’ve seen since Moyes. All we’ve done is gone full circle and when he is sacked in the summer he’ll leave us in pretty much as big a mess as when he took over.
Groundhog Day thread at its best delivering the groundhog day points.
You’d be forgiven for thinking we haven’t just played 3 poor championship sides in a row, two at OT and one at Wembley, and failed to beat two of them.
You’d be forgiven for thinking we haven’t just played 3 poor championship sides in a row, two at OT and one at Wembley, and failed to beat two of them.
One thing that really turns me off Ten Hag (along with several others ) is this insistence that without injuries we'd be in the top 4.
That may well be true but I am presuming he's talking about having players available all the time who have been long-term injury issues for the club and throughout their careers,
Shaw, Varane, Martial, Rashford too for that matter
And then others like Martinez, Malacia, Eriksen who have been injured across two transfer windows and we've made no attempt to mitigate for.
To rely on these players season after season in the miraculous hope that they're not going to be permanently injured is naive and stupid.
Meanwhile, he's bought a player in Mount coming off a long term injury, got rid of our stable goalkeeper to try and integrate a new one and sold/loaned players who are generally always fit - Fred, Elanga, Williams. They might not be good enough to be starters but we've desperately needed squad players
That may well be true but I am presuming he's talking about having players available all the time who have been long-term injury issues for the club and throughout their careers,
Shaw, Varane, Martial, Rashford too for that matter
And then others like Martinez, Malacia, Eriksen who have been injured across two transfer windows and we've made no attempt to mitigate for.
To rely on these players season after season in the miraculous hope that they're not going to be permanently injured is naive and stupid.
Meanwhile, he's bought a player in Mount coming off a long term injury, got rid of our stable goalkeeper to try and integrate a new one and sold/loaned players who are generally always fit - Fred, Elanga, Williams. They might not be good enough to be starters but we've desperately needed squad players
Two years later and its still in free fall, after throwing £400 mill at the problem.
I'm not buying the defensive injuries as an excuse for the state of our season, he messed up our left back issues in the transfer window this season and it has only been in the last few games where we have to play casimero there but at the same time has completely exposed our defence all season with his tactics allowing the opposition to easily walk through our midfield, something that may not have been as easy if we had fred's energy and legs in there.
Even with the injuries, the quality of players we have at our disposal should see us beat the likes of Burnley and Coventry without sweat. Problem is, the players have been set up to fail tactically.
ETH isn’t cut out for the EPL. He is a decent manager suited to a less aggressive and competitive landscape.
ETH isn’t cut out for the EPL. He is a decent manager suited to a less aggressive and competitive landscape.
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