It was the kind of season where if you manage to build on it, you will look back at it as the first sign of things to come with the team clearly showing more organization and quality than it had previous year. With how the next season has panned out though, it renders that season pretty much meaningless as it was clearly not a sign of anything.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Are both much easier to win the league than any PL, La Liga or Serie A team, which is why you don’t see people giving Poch that much credit for winning the league with PSG. Most seasons Europe is the real test for both.
I don't know about our resident scousers, but he (and a couple of others i know) have this strange belief that Klopp will become their version of Zidane. Always there for them when duty calls and so on... At least their board made an actual decision. Anyway, i thought it was a funny thought, if we believe that INEOS are seriously considering Southgate. And there's so much dithering going on at United post-Fergie, you couldn't blame anyone for thinking their tactic was to let things get so bad that any change would look like a step in the right direction after a certain point.
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Hopefully I’m never needed
How do you know he’s not getting the best out of them?
Who do we think could do significantly more? And how do you know it’s Ten Hag holding that player back?
So you agree we are lacking both of those players that are very important for a PL side to be very good?
Is Ten Hag director of football? Is he in charge of transfers? Is he in charge of the spending?
And even then Tuchel has hardly been dominant and able to do that.
Walter Shite
Well no, because he's had one bad season off the back off one very good season. This bad season was also shrouded in ownership uncertainty, structural frailties and injury.
We can, because objectively speaking he had one good season and one bad season.
Right, going back to the original point I made, which is echoing Rob Dawson, he's obviously not a "bad" manager just because he had one bad season.
Which is nonsense
We're performing like a borderline relegation candidate by many metrics. Loads could do better.Hopefully I’m never needed
How do you know he’s not getting the best out of them?
Who do we think could do significantly more? And how do you know it’s Ten Hag holding that player back?
So you agree we are lacking both of those players that are very important for a PL side to be very good?
Is Ten Hag director of football? Is he in charge of transfers? Is he in charge of the spending?
And even then Tuchel has hardly been dominant and able to do that.
Yes, Ten Hag has recruited terribly for whatever this style is he wants to play.
He's heavily involved in recruitment and should know a good player and fee when he sees one.
He's had one good half of a season.
Wel it's not because he pretty much overperformed in points, and league finish. And he won a cup.
Half Hag!
Getting nervous that this imposter will still be here next season
Half in the Hag!
Feck football.
Not a chance in hell , he is done here.
But there's no obvious replacement or something.
Marcel Brands, DoF PSV and Everton in the past was asked on Dutch TV if he has any advice to give to Arne Slot: "Don't bring in 5 players you trained at your former clubs." Ouch.
Heh.
The manager they want might still be in a job.
Well that isn't realistic. But it would also include the majority of Ten Hags signings as well I assume?
Remember when people used to say "give him until december to see what happens"? I'm seeing the same members saying they want to give him another season now and yet we've been as bad as ever this whole time. It will never change. If he somehow stays then next season it will be "new structure needs time to bed in".
Yeah it's madness.
I don't care about Ten Hag and it has nothing to do with Ten Hag.
I think most would agree, the players are as big, if not bigger (for me, a bigger issue) an issue as the manager - A lot of these players do need to go, and yeah we need those additions in defence and defensive midfield. While Ten Hag has dealt well with a lot of issues correctly, I do think that if his team doesn't have the legs to play the transition football he wants to play, he should have the ability to be a bit more pragmatic and just get the wins (However scrappy they are) against the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth, etc. I have no issues with his man management, I believe he's done that aspect better than Mou, Ole and LVG - I don't think someone like Tuchel will do better in that respect.
I do take issue with his tactics in these easy games he should win, yes of course we've got injuries but we can still win these games if we play with a bit more solidity after we've taken a lead - and I believe that can be coached. I would be OK if he gets a bit more time with a fully fit squad and a couple of additions in the summer to see if he fixes these issues, but I would also be OK with someone like Nagelsmann or Enrique coming in at the end of the season, as long as it's a tactically better coach that doesn't have a prolonged history of falling out with players.
Not going to put some of these transfers solely on the manager, and yes of course we'd play better with our injured players back / if we had better players in certain areas - But we should still be getting past these bottom half / championship teams despite these limitations, our 2nd eleven should be good enough to at least beat 10th in the PL. This is where he comes up short for me, and I hope he's able to address this if he stays next season.
Well I've posted it twice, but no worries carry on.
If that happens and I honestly think it’s a big IF and why do I think that? Just look at the way Eric has been acting in press reviews and after match interviews, he’s gone a bit loopy loo I tell you he’s a bit of a loony the performances and criticism has obviously got to the poor chap and he’s not the same as was when he first arrived or indeed through out last season.
Any way if Utd do give him another season, god help both him and Utd and it turns out to be another disaster then I would like to see Ipswich do pretty well and then for us to go for McKenna.
He won the league in both his seasons at PSG, he won the league last year at Bayern and failed this year mainly because of how absurdly good Leverkusen have been (normally this Bayern season would see them crowned as champions). It’s really hard to compare ten Hag’a accolades with Tuchel because clearly they are on a very different level, but it’s not surprising for me that you are now trying to downplay Tuchel to protect the manager you are so immensely in love with.
You think after the league cup win to the end of last season was good?
Do you not see similar issues with that period and this season?
We've been on a downward trajectory performance and form wise for going on well over a year now. We had 2/3 of a decent season and one horrific season.
He isn't a bad manager, but there's an increasing amount of evidence to suggest he isn't a particularly good one either.
He hasn’t had a ‘bad’ season really, he’s had a historically horrible one, and the team has clearly got massively worse during his reign. Basically the only truly good period we had was almost 18 months ago and it has been downhill since March last year.
I think it gets lost on people how horrible this season has been. We are extremely lucky to even be where we are as by all metrics we are a much worse team than 6th/7th. It’s delusional to believe that things are going to take such a drastically different shape when we get Martinez and Shaw back. It’s not an ‘one off bad season’, it’s an abomination.
Yes I think the final part of last season wasn't as good. That doesn't change the fact that he had a very good first season.
Above.
We've also had a historically horrible one with injuries and structural problems. And last season wasn't just good it was very good by way of points and a surprise to all fans that he managed two finals and one cup in the process for a debut year.
So as I said. One bad season doesn't make a manager bad.
It hasn’t really been historically bad in terms of injuries, we aren’t even the worst in the league this season when it comes to that. Certainly not to a point where you can expect a team of this caliber to drop off a cliff like this. The fact we’ve had all our forwards and Bruno available nearly all season yet show almost zero coherence in attack is frankly horrific.
Last season was solid. Our League Cup run was obviously made easy by the fact we played no one decent until the final, and we only really had to beat one good team to get to FA Cup final (also we were at home in every single draw in both competitions). League campaign was better than expected (I thought we would have got between 65 and 72 points, we got more).
It definitely wasn’t amazing to a point where it would render this season any less horrible. The kind of season we are having now, I think only winning a major trophy in the preceding one could give you enough credit to not deserve a sacking.
He’s not a bad manager, he’s just not good enough.
Last year was a strong over performance. No one expected us to get that many points, certainly no one expected us to hit 2 finals for a manager working out a foreign league with a club effectively in free fall weeks before he came.
We all know United have structural problems and there has been a drawn out takeover process. But neither of those things can be used as an excuse for the level of performances and the tactical ineptitude that has been consistent throughout this season.
Ten Hag isn't a bad manager, I could be proven wrong in the future but I don't think he's good enough for this level. But on top of that I don't think he's shown that he's not a good fit for Manchester United.
It is horrible. No team has had the level of injuries concentrated in defence as we have.
Teams would rather have one more injury overall but spread out in different positions, than to have a lot of injuries that effectively entirely decimates the defence. Horrible is the only word to describe our injury situation.
Last season was more than solid. Wind back to all the predictions and the neutrals didn't have us in top 4. He ended up walking it with 8pts between him at 3rd and Liverpool in 5th. He also did it whilst getting to two Cup finals and winning one.
Im not saying that this season isn't horrible by his standards or any standard by the way. I'm saying he has had to deal with a feck ton that many of us don't know about and the injury and structural frailties are pretty massive weights on any coach. He's still been shite this season. But he was very good last season.
One bad season doesn't make a manager bad. He may not be the guy for us, and that's fine. But he's not a bad manager.
I don't think you, or I, or anyone on the forum know the real impact structural issues have on team building, with respect.
I agree he should have still navigated many games better. But as I said, and hat you seem to agree, he's not a bad manager from one bad season.
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