Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It’s madness to blame ten Hag for this mess of a window. He doesn‘t buy or sell players. If he asks for players that aren’t realistic the DOF should step in. We interviewed him extensively, he would have hit us with a list of players needed back in April.

Klopp wanted Brandt but Michael Edwards and his team picked Salah. It appears our manager doesn’t have that support system around him. That’s not his fault. Thats on the club.
 
bosskeano said:
Given where we are and where we finished in the league, along with what has been done in transfer market around us, ETH has been dealt a pretty fuking harsh hand this season. This club should be backing him financially in the market to get the necessary players and putting together a squad that can make a top 4 challenge.

Its a bit shocking at how poor we've been so far getting him what he needs and are glaring holes in the squad at CM and Attacking players.
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What suggests he has not been backed financially?
Bought a CB for 50m and LB for 13m
Barca accepted an offer for de Jong
offer for Sesko submitted, and if you believe the reports quite a big offer for a young lad

It doesn't seem like a money problem to me.
 
largelyworried said:
18 months ago we were on route to finishing 2nd in the league after being undefeated away from home all season. Not that I think that was a true reflection of the squad either for what its worth, but it does show how short term you're looking at things here.
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I think the last 18 months is a reasonable timescale. Bruno, for example, was great in the season we came second. He was the catalyst of it all. But the end of 20/21 season and all of 21/22 he has been a liability at times and the recent games show that he is still closer to recent form than that of 2 years ago. On top of all of that, there has been considerable change at Chelsea and Arsenal in that time.

Spurs have hired a great coach who has clicked with them and, on paper, already improved the team in this window. Arsenal went for youth having being in a rut with older players that weren't performing, and are starting to reap the rewards. They have also made some proven great signings this summer, have added some talented youngsters. Chelsea in 20/21 were managed by Frank Lampard for the most part, then became the most consistent team I believe, over the period in which Tuchel took over, obviously winning the CL that season. They were better than us by the end of 20/21 and have continued to put space between them and us ever since.
 
I really try to avoid negative spew - but it really was career suicide joining United.

He has to perform a miracle to turn this around.
 
If ETH gets anywhere near 4th place this season he has done well. This is based on what we have currently of course. Cant believe how light we are, knowing the team was stripped back with people leaving and find ourselves with no fit Striker for opening game of the season
 
Borys said:
What suggests he has not been backed financially?
Bought a CB for 50m and LB for 13m
Barca accepted an offer for de Jong
offer for Sesko submitted, and if you believe the reports quite a big offer for a young lad

It doesn't seem like a money problem to me.
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Incompetence is the bigger problem. He came in and said Timber and Antony were top targets, had we bought them right away we probably would have picked up Timber for around 30-35 mil and Antony 50-55 mil. Instead we waited or whatever happened, Timber changed his mind, Ajax sold other players, cranked up the price on Martinez and Antony, and now we got his backup CB and didn't get his winger. Nunez was also his first choice signing, and we dicked around for 3 weeks and Liverpool showed up in an afternoon and signed him.
 
We have had what, 8-9 players leave the club and only brought in a handful? ETH has been harping about having a large squad this year with the congested fixture list due to the WC and we are going into this season with an even thinner squad? It's an absolute joke how the board has handled this summer. Spurs and Arsenal have shown they are more ambitious than us this year. If ETH sniffs top 4 this year with implementing a style of play that the fans will be excited to watch, it would be a massively successful season.
 
Does he have balls to drop Ronaldo now with Martial injury?

I think he will. Sends a message to Ronaldo for shite he has pulled so far.

Sancho, Rashford, Elenga to start or Bruno on left. Erikesen to come in.
 
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Klopp finished 6th in his first season so calm your tits. Imagine if they panic bought the wrong players instead of carefully building the team over three years.
 
pocco said:
I think the last 18 months is a reasonable timescale. Bruno, for example, was great in the season we came second. He was the catalyst of it all. But the end of 20/21 season and all of 21/22 he has been a liability at times and the recent games show that he is still closer to recent form than that of 2 years ago. On top of all of that, there has been considerable change at Chelsea and Arsenal in that time.

Spurs have hired a great coach who has clicked with them and, on paper, already improved the team in this window. Arsenal went for youth having being in a rut with older players that weren't performing, and are starting to reap the rewards. They have also made some proven great signings this summer, have added some talented youngsters. Chelsea in 20/21 were managed by Frank Lampard for the most part, then became the most consistent team I believe, over the period in which Tuchel took over, obviously winning the CL that season. They were better than us by the end of 20/21 and have continued to put space between them and us ever since.
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In my opinion I’d say Spurs are the only team I could see being miles ahead of us this season with Conte in charge and now the players he wants. They also have some serious players there in Kane and Son at the business end of the pitch.

Chelsea under Tuchel have really started to go stale towards the end of last season and i dont think they have a well balanced squad, and have been awful pre season. They play 3421 a lot so why have they made a wide forward their marquee signing?

And Whats new about arsenal having some young prospects but achieving zero? I’ll be surprised if Arteta lasts the season at Arsenal. Hes spent a hell of a lot of money there now and its his team. But you have to ask, is Jesus a million miles north of lacazette or auba? No. Jesus never been close to Aubas output.theyve got too many number 10s in odegaard, ESR and Vieira so cant get them all on the pitch. That will create unrest in the dressing room when one of them never plays. They are still weak in midfield.

For what its worth as well i dont think this will be a glamorous season for us - i think its going to be a bit LVG reminiscent with us playing solid football and keeping possesion etc but our attack as it stands lacks depth and quality
 
Strootman's Finger said:
Incompetence is the bigger problem. He came in and said Timber and Antony were top targets, had we bought them right away we probably would have picked up Timber for around 30-35 mil and Antony 50-55 mil. Instead we waited or whatever happened, Timber changed his mind, Ajax sold other players, cranked up the price on Martinez and Antony, and now we got his backup CB and didn't get his winger. Nunez was also his first choice signing, and we dicked around for 3 weeks and Liverpool showed up in an afternoon and signed him.
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Maybe, I don't know. Maybe those players were simply not keen on joining United. There are objectively better options than us so I wouldn't blame them. It is what it is, at least we have a manager who can "pull" players into his project. But I think he has to prove first he's getting us on the right track, so far he's just a promising young coach.
It's a part of managing my expectations and I would be happy with players who some think are not good enough for United (eg. Neves).
 
mu4c_20le said:
Klopp finished 6th in his first season so calm your tits. Imagine if they panic bought the wrong players instead of carefully building the team over three years.
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8th when he replaced Rodgers two months after the season had started, 4th in his first full season.
 
Borys said:
Maybe, I don't know. Maybe those players were simply not keen on joining United. There are objectively better options than us so I wouldn't blame them. It is what it is, at least we have a manager who can "pull" players into his project. But I think he has to prove first he's getting us on the right track, so far he's just a promising young coach.
It's a part of managing my expectations and I would be happy with players who some think are not good enough for United (eg. Neves).
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Timber very much was, it was all but done when he went to the Nations League games, than LVG got in his ear and changed his mind. Had the club closed the deal before he left, he couldn't change his mind. Antony has been desperate to follow Ten Hag since he left, still is.
 
Borys said:
What suggests he has not been backed financially?
Bought a CB for 50m and LB for 13m
Barca accepted an offer for de Jong
offer for Sesko submitted, and if you believe the reports quite a big offer for a young lad

It doesn't seem like a money problem to me.
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Strootman's Finger said:
Incompetence is the bigger problem. He came in and said Timber and Antony were top targets, had we bought them right away we probably would have picked up Timber for around 30-35 mil and Antony 50-55 mil. Instead we waited or whatever happened, Timber changed his mind, Ajax sold other players, cranked up the price on Martinez and Antony, and now we got his backup CB and didn't get his winger. Nunez was also his first choice signing, and we dicked around for 3 weeks and Liverpool showed up in an afternoon and signed him.
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incompetence 100% in the failings to have this sorted....look around us Sterling to Chelsea, Gabriel to Arsenal, Nunez to Pool, Haaland to City, Richarlison to Spurs....we are holding our dick in our hand for forward help

backed financially? are they signed? if not, why? have the come up with a solution to the issue that is keeping the deal from getting over the line?

He wanted Timber didn't get him. He wanted Antony didn't get him. Now they are talking about going for an 18 yr old CF while that is great for the future can we trust a young kid to really make in impact now? i mean just look at Diallo and Pellestri for example of money spent on potential but not reward yet.

We should have had a back up plan for Antony right away to get an experienced player.

What about a guy like Hudson_Odoi who is surplus at Chelsea...he's a prem player that can score and play CF or Wing?

These other clubs and chairmen are making decisive moves while we sit and wait for something to happen when we desperately need 1-2 attacking players outside of a guy like Frenkie.
 
It takes time before Ten Hag's system is effectively implemented. Was the same at Utrecht and Ajax. So I hope the fans will go easy on him as he forms his style of play in the squad.
 
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Idxomer said:
8th when he replaced Rodgers two months after the season had started, 4th in his first full season.
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Ok, close enough. Can't believe we were so bad that year, we finished 6th and everyone called it a success because Jose went all out in the EL...
 
dave2528 said:
Have you considered taking it down a notch, friend? I didn't attack you personally nor did I play armchair psychologist with you. I'm simply pointing out that the season hasn't started and some are already waiving white flags and calling ETH a failure.

I understand that nerves are on edge after last season's debacle but for Christ's sake, can we at least actually fail on the pitch before we start laying blame?
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I'm personally not on edge which is why I was surprised you thought I had knives out for ETH. I think you should reread what you wrote. "Jesus ...knives out". It was a bit of an outburst. Or did I quote the wrong poster?

Any case It's not like that at all. I don't have it out for ETH. We just have to accept that the decision was made to change course from the Rangnick interim.

There had been hope of us determining how the club should play and buying players according to a style regardless of the manager and then hiring a manager to come in that fit that philosophy. But we scrapped it to give ETH more authority on that.

So the direction of transfers this window is coming from ETH. Whether you call that blaming him or just saying it's on him, it's pretty factual. It was widely reported that he wouldn't have joined United if he didn't have that level of control.

I've been preaching patience with the club all thru the window. It's possible to be patient and also acknowledge why things have gone the way they have. You can brand it as blame but it's quite fair.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Ok, close enough. Can't believe we were so bad that year, we finished 6th and everyone called it a success because Jose went all out in the EL...
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We were terrible in the league, only scored 5 more goals than the previous season under LVG.
 
Strootman's Finger said:
Incompetence is the bigger problem. He came in and said Timber and Antony were top targets, had we bought them right away we probably would have picked up Timber for around 30-35 mil and Antony 50-55 mil. Instead we waited or whatever happened, Timber changed his mind, Ajax sold other players, cranked up the price on Martinez and Antony, and now we got his backup CB and didn't get his winger. Nunez was also his first choice signing, and we dicked around for 3 weeks and Liverpool showed up in an afternoon and signed him.
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"Probably would have picked up" ... How can you be so certain of something like this :lol: ?
 
Jezpeza said:
In my opinion I’d say Spurs are the only team I could see being miles ahead of us this season with Conte in charge and now the players he wants. They also have some serious players there in Kane and Son at the business end of the pitch.

Chelsea under Tuchel have really started to go stale towards the end of last season and i dont think they have a well balanced squad, and have been awful pre season. They play 3421 a lot so why have they made a wide forward their marquee signing?

And Whats new about arsenal having some young prospects but achieving zero? I’ll be surprised if Arteta lasts the season at Arsenal. Hes spent a hell of a lot of money there now and its his team. But you have to ask, is Jesus a million miles north of lacazette or auba? No. Jesus never been close to Aubas output.theyve got too many number 10s in odegaard, ESR and Vieira so cant get them all on the pitch. That will create unrest in the dressing room when one of them never plays. They are still weak in midfield.

For what its worth as well i dont think this will be a glamorous season for us - i think its going to be a bit LVG reminiscent with us playing solid football and keeping possesion etc but our attack as it stands lacks depth and quality
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Chelsea needed Sterling. I said last season that I thought they were missing a Hazard type player, because they had a lot of very good footballers but they lacked that player to cause chaos by beating players in the attacking third. Sterling will improve them a lot. They're still miles better than us right now. Their quality in attack is better than ours by far. Their midfield is lightyears ahead - Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho...and that's just three of them. Their depth players would probably get games for us. In attack they have quite a few good options, though they lack a true goalscorer. I expect them to add to this as the window goes on. I do rate Broja though, and it will be interesting to see how he does for them if given a chance. Defensively they have very good fullbacks, Koulibaly who should be a good addition. They need CBs still, though if I remember correctly, their younger CBs did a good job towards the end of the season.

Regarding Arsenal, the question was who is better right now. Not what they have/will achieve/win. Because neither us nor them will probably win anything this season. But they have proven last season that they are better right now. Them being a young squad is important because it is clear to everybody that these young players are improving quickly and have made them a better team. Jesus is better than Auba and Lacazette, both of whom were really poor at times in the last 2 years for Arsenal. Auba looked lazy whenever I watched them and let the rest of their hard-working side down. Jesus has more to his game right now than either of them. He's a player that never looked out of place at City, yet they upgraded and Arsenal saw the opportunity to sign a player that, really, didn't need to drop down the table to find a club. His signing was a coup for them. Saying their players will cause unrest is speculative at best. They found ways to rotate players last season.
 
pocco said:
Chelsea needed Sterling. I said last season that I thought they were missing a Hazard type player, because they had a lot of very good footballers but they lacked that player to cause chaos by beating players in the attacking third. Sterling will improve them a lot. They're still miles better than us right now. Their quality in attack is better than ours by far. Their midfield is lightyears ahead - Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho...and that's just three of them. Their depth players would probably get games for us. In attack they have quite a few good options, though they lack a true goalscorer. I expect them to add to this as the window goes on. I do rate Broja though, and it will be interesting to see how he does for them if given a chance. Defensively they have very good fullbacks, Koulibaly who should be a good addition. They need CBs still, though if I remember correctly, their younger CBs did a good job towards the end of the season.

Regarding Arsenal, the question was who is better right now. Not what they have/will achieve/win. Because neither us nor them will probably win anything this season. But they have proven last season that they are better right now. Them being a young squad is important because it is clear to everybody that these young players are improving quickly and have made them a better team. Jesus is better than Auba and Lacazette, both of whom were really poor at times in the last 2 years for Arsenal. Auba looked lazy whenever I watched them and let the rest of their hard-working side down. Jesus has more to his game right now than either of them. He's a player that never looked out of place at City, yet they upgraded and Arsenal saw the opportunity to sign a player that, really, didn't need to drop down the table to find a club. His signing was a coup for them. Saying their players will cause unrest is speculative at best. They found ways to rotate players last season.
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Hard to disagree with any of this.

I also have absolutely no doubt that ETH would do a million miles better with Arsenal’s squad than Arteta would with ours.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why don’t you help the quality of discourse by answering his question? I’m curious about the answer too.
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Well then, go on and do a little reading amigo! There's plenty of resources out there including the search button on this very forum.

The quality of the discourse would be helped by those that did their homework. It would be poor judgement to simply believe me when more primary sources are readily available to rehash the entire duration of club restructuring plan after Ole's dismissal. And, no I am not going to dig it up for anyone too lazy or stubborn to do so.
 
Ted Lasso said:
Well then, go on and do a little reading amigo! There's plenty of resources out there including the search button on this very forum.

The quality of the discourse would be helped by those that did their homework. It would be poor judgement to simply believe me when more primary sources are readily available to rehash the entire duration of club restructuring plan after Ole's dismissal. And, no I am not going to dig it up for anyone too lazy or stubborn to do so.
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:lol: Not sure how lecturing people on how to improve the discourse whilst swerving direct questions makes much sense but whatever. You do you.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Hard to disagree with any of this.

I also have absolutely no doubt that ETH would do a million miles better with Arsenal’s squad than Arteta would with ours.
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Absolutely. I've been saying this for a while now, but Arsenal took the plunge and got rid of overrated, overhyped and overpaid players to trust younger players. They did what I have been hoping we would do and purge out these 'stars' that get paid incredible wages but don't perform. Instead we have pandered to many for too long. I don't think we, as a club, were ever truly prepared to take the necessary steps to do this because it would bring hard times for a year or two. We're too concerned with image and the finances, rather than getting this team back on track.

What I will say is that we've seen a lot leave this summer, and a few more look on their way, so hopefully this is a sign of things to come. I believe in ETH, I don't think he is interested in all this superstar, selling merch crap. He will judge these players based on performances only. The club need to start backing him with conviction - he's their golden goose because he will do the things they haven't had the bollocks to do themselves for years.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I'm personally not on edge which is why I was surprised you thought I had knives out for ETH. I think you should reread what you wrote. "Jesus ...knives out". It was a bit of an outburst. Or did I quote the wrong poster?

Any case It's not like that at all. I don't have it out for ETH. We just have to accept that the decision was made to change course from the Rangnick interim.

There had been hope of us determining how the club should play and buying players according to a style regardless of the manager and then hiring a manager to come in that fit that philosophy. But we scrapped it to give ETH more authority on that.

So the direction of transfers this window is coming from ETH. Whether you call that blaming him or just saying it's on him, it's pretty factual. It was widely reported that he wouldn't have joined United if he didn't have that level of control.

I've been preaching patience with the club all thru the window. It's possible to be patient and also acknowledge why things have gone the way they have. You can brand it as blame but it's quite fair.
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I think some of us would just like to hear who you think we missed out on that ETH put the kibosh on.

I'd also like us to take a beating and for the transfer window to be fully closed before we start licking wounds and laying blame.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Klopp finished 6th in his first season so calm your tits. Imagine if they panic bought the wrong players instead of carefully building the team over three years.
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Didn’t he come in around Oct/Nov that season, and make two cup finals? I remember the seeds being sown and a lot of positivity among Liverpool fans even though they finished out of the CL spots.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Klopp finished 6th in his first season so calm your tits. Imagine if they panic bought the wrong players instead of carefully building the team over three years.
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Came in a third into the season with no window or pre season
 
DSG said:
Didn’t he come in around Oct/Nov that season, and make two cup finals? I remember the seeds being sown and a lot of positivity among Liverpool fans even though they finished out of the CL spots.
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VP89 said:
Came in a third into the season with no window or pre season
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With hindsight the job he inherited wasn’t as bad as it seemed.

Rodgers had got them to 84 points and 100+ goals in 2013/14, playing a Kloppish brand of football. We can only dream of those sort of stats in the post-Fergie era.

Equivalent season under Ole had 10 less points, 30 fewer goals and ETH is having to overhaul our style of play far more than Klopp needed to do at Liverpool.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I'm personally not on edge which is why I was surprised you thought I had knives out for ETH. I think you should reread what you wrote. "Jesus ...knives out". It was a bit of an outburst. Or did I quote the wrong poster?

Any case It's not like that at all. I don't have it out for ETH. We just have to accept that the decision was made to change course from the Rangnick interim.

There had been hope of us determining how the club should play and buying players according to a style regardless of the manager and then hiring a manager to come in that fit that philosophy. But we scrapped it to give ETH more authority on that.

So the direction of transfers this window is coming from ETH. Whether you call that blaming him or just saying it's on him, it's pretty factual. It was widely reported that he wouldn't have joined United if he didn't have that level of control.

I've been preaching patience with the club all thru the window. It's possible to be patient and also acknowledge why things have gone the way they have. You can brand it as blame but it's quite fair.
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I’m really surprised that some in the Caf think ETH hasn’t been backed by the board.

We bought two players from the Dutch league, one of whom was pretty obscure, the other an Ajax player, and, fair to say, shortish CB. There is no way the club would have bought those two players had Poch been manager.

We’ve spent almost the entire window fiddling around with trying to convince deJong to move from Barcelona. Again, doubtful that we’d be doing that under a different manager.

The good news is that ETH has very specific types he’s going for which means he’s laser focused on building a squad that can play the way he wants them to play. He has been hamstrung by the fact we are out of the CL, so top players do not want to come here (Nunez, de Jong, Timber, Antony, etc.). I said it in January when Ralf the Fraud was managing us that missing out on the CL would set us back at least a year in the squad rebuild.

I think some of the Caf is preparing a ready made excuse for ETH in case we start off poorly. Frankly, I don’t care much about early results, I want to see how we are playing, what kind of leader ETH is, if our players are progressing (Sancho, Rashford, Maguire, Bruno).
 
mu4c_20le said:
Klopp finished 6th in his first season so calm your tits. Imagine if they panic bought the wrong players instead of carefully building the team over three years.
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They didn't do that
 
DSG said:
I’m really surprised that some in the Caf think ETH hasn’t been backed by the board.

We bought two players from the Dutch league, one of whom was pretty obscure, the other an Ajax player, and, fair to say, shortish CB. There is no way the club would have bought those two players had Poch been manager.

We’ve spent almost the entire window fiddling around with trying to convince deJong to move from Barcelona. Again, doubtful that we’d be doing that under a different manager.

The good news is that ETH has very specific types he’s going for which means he’s laser focused on building a squad that can play the way he wants them to play. He has been hamstrung by the fact we are out of the CL, so top players do not want to come here (Nunez, de Jong, Timber, Antony, etc.). I said it in January when Ralf the Fraud was managing us that missing out on the CL would set us back at least a year in the squad rebuild.

I think some of the Caf is preparing a ready made excuse for ETH in case we start off poorly. Frankly, I don’t care much about early results, I want to see how we are playing, what kind of leader ETH is, if our players are progressing (Sancho, Rashford, Maguire, Bruno).
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Surprised? It couldn’t be more obvious what a massive uphill battle he’s inherited, thanks to the woeful running of the club this summer and in previous seasons.

In the short term we desperately needed some additions up front and there’s still no sign of any with the season starting next weekend. In the longer term he’s been handed a squad that’s been gutted by senior players leaving on a free, without the time or money available to adequately replace them all in a single summer. Plus the whole Ronaldo hospital pass. Which, even all on its own, would be a monstrous pain in the hole for any manager trying to establish himself at a new club.
 
Maik2022 said:
To be fair ;), This dutch market thing is so spot on, it's really the smoking gun, that they have no clue. I would have kept Rangnick, he doesn't need to talk to ETH at all, let them make a list of players that would fit, and get at least some of them. Or do something else, but this dutch thing is embarassing.
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I bet this sesko guy was rangnicks pick aswell which he might have communicated to the powers that we while he was still here.
 
Klopp managed Liverpool for 30 matches in his first season there and finished 8th. They scraped their way into 4th place by 1 point in his second season.

They also sold a bunch of players for a combined £76 million after his first season so it's not like the squad was awful. United will be lucky to offload most of their unwanted players for free without covering some of their wages.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
With hindsight the job he inherited wasn’t as bad as it seemed.

Rodgers had got them to 84 points and 100+ goals in 2013/14, playing a Kloppish brand of football. We can only dream of those sort of stats in the post-Fergie era.

Equivalent season under Ole had 10 less points, 30 fewer goals and ETH is having to overhaul our style of play far more than Klopp needed to do at Liverpool.
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They were pretty poor in 14/15, finishing 6th with a GD of 4. They spent quite a bit of money in the 2014 transfer window, and most of the transfers flopped (Moreno, Balotelli, Lallana, Lambert). Then in 2015, they spent 32m on Benteke (!) but also brought in Milner and Firmino. Klopp joined after the Everton draw in 2015.

If anything, ETH has the advantage over Klopp in that he has a summer transfer window and a preseason. It’s probably unfair to even compare him with Klopp, but he’s going to need to show improvement this season after the Ralf disaster.
 
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