Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Skills]

Not really, because the main issue which is lack of depth will only become apparent couple of months into the season, not in the beginning when we play one game a week.

Depth is a bullshit excuse and unless you know how to carefully manage a large squad it'll cause more issues than solve. Ole found this out last season.

Liverpool still have a relatively thin squad, and the squad they won the CL/Title with was even lighter.

 

[Thisistheone]

Depth is a bullshit excuse and unless you know how to carefully manage a large squad it'll cause more issues than solve. Ole found this out last season.

Liverpool still have a relatively thin squad, and the squad they won the CL/Title with was even lighter.

Liverpool’s squad is freakish in terms of fitness and no injuries. So much so there’s conspiracy theories about asthma pumps etc

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I wouldn't change Shaw, Varane, De Gea, Sancho and Eriksen for anything they've got.

I'd take Son, Kane and Romero off Spurs.
I don't want any of Arsenal's lot.
I'd take Mount, James and maybe Sterling off Chelsea but not if Rashford gets back to form.

Let me know if I've missed somebody.

I've seen many deluded/blinded fans but you take the cake with nonsense like that.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Depth is a bullshit excuse and unless you know how to carefully manage a large squad it'll cause more issues than solve. Ole found this out last season.

Liverpool still have a relatively thin squad, and the squad they won the CL/Title with was even lighter.

Two days from our first game and we literally have no fit striker.. come on

 

[BackfromtheRed]

Also:

• Malacia (currently Dutch national team starter)
• Lisandro Martinez (not really Eredivisie-standard: he's not Dutch and just a really talented player)
• Christian Eriksen (former Eredivisie too right)

The whole "he buys too much Eredivisie players" concern is no concern at all I think.

For me the issue is not so much "how many Eredivisie players" per se, but more whether the club as a whole has really moved on. The issue with Moyes/Van Gaal/Mourinho was that they all seemed to want to turn the club on its head and more and send it in a totally new direction. Clearly we want a level of change, but are we just again remaking the club according one particular individual's particular vision, when they may or may not be there in three years time.

We've still got players from Fergie's time lurking on the books ffs, and various leftovers from the above coaches. Are we just doing the same again ?

 

[Borys]

If we start well beating Brighton, Brendford and somehow Liverpool or even a draw after a good performance against them, a lot of the negative talks will disperse.

I really doubt that. We have a first XI which should beat Brighton and Brentford, maybe draw against Liverpool but we can't play them for 38 games. First XI would get into TOP 4 most likely if we could do that.
The problem is we are one injury away from playing Garner and Elanga.

 

[bosnian_red]

Depth is a bullshit excuse and unless you know how to carefully manage a large squad it'll cause more issues than solve. Ole found this out last season.

Liverpool still have a relatively thin squad, and the squad they won the CL/Title with was even lighter.

There is a happy medium between having Elanga as the backup winger and having Cavani, martial, Lingard, Greenwood, mata all in reserve you know.

Everyone needs depth and competition for places. Everyone needs to be able to put out a starting 11 and a backup 11 that is decent. In that backup 11, you want a few top players too who just compete and rotate with the starting 11 guys. You want 3 top wingers for 2 positions. You want 3 good CBs for 2 positions. You want a top midfielder to rotate around and change system. You want top backups for any injury prone starters. We are honestly fine in most positions. Its the winger depth where we are a disaster, and the striker position where we have a 37 year old who doesn't want to be here and Martial who is seemingly always injured now.

 

[RedSky]

It was only a few months ago that the majority of the forum agreed that we had one of the weakest midfield partnerships in the league. I think that was blown out of proportion a touch, but clearly it's not top 4 material and we've gone and made it weaker by reducing our depth.

Our forward options are not good at all. Rashford and Martial had stinker of seasons last year and we're gambling that they can turn their form around and have it sustain over the entire season. Ronaldo is doing his pissed off teenager routine and we're looking at bringing in a talented but very inexperienced forward as competition... Sancho will perform better than last season based on pre season form but our depth is woefully weak.

But, this is going to be a weird season given the World Cup mid season so who the feck knows. It's going to be a very tough season though, the smaller teams with less international players are going to be getting a lovely rest and time for prolonged training mid season. While the international players are going to be heading off to a hot climate to play in a World Cup which will no doubt result in English Internationals coming back with PTSD as usual. One of the seasons where you need a pretty big squad to cope with players coming back fatigued from the World Cup.

 

[Leftback99]

If we start well beating Brighton, Brendford and somehow Liverpool or even a draw after a good performance against them, a lot of the negative talks will disperse.

Of course it would, but we likely won't even beat Brighton. We've not even got a fit striker.

 

[largelyworried]

How are we possibly level with Spurs and Chelsea? I sense red tinted glasses were being worn when you were assessing each squad. I don't even think we're as good as Arsenal right now, and last season proved it. We've got worse (arguably) since then, and definitely have a much weaker squad than this time last season.

Because no-one can seriously argue that last season's 6th place was just the natural ceiling of a group of limited players all doing their best. It was a catastrophic, club wide meltdown early on that led to fans, manager and players alike losing all faith in each other and the whole project going down the toilet in a dramatic way. Barely any player reached anything close to their potential. I'm assuming there that ETH will get most of his players to at least the personal performance level that Ole got them playing at. I think that's a fair enough assumption, and if he does, then using last season as a benchmark makes little sense.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

This squad has a lot less quality than last year. Greenwood, Pogba, Matic, Lingard, Mata and Cavani have all left with only Eriksen coming in those areas. It’s pretty bonkers to me that we have people going around here telling everything is fine - there is no way this was the planned squad 2 days from a new season and I’d rank it the 5th or 6th best in England. He seems pretty relaxed but he has one hell of a job on here.

Yup. Big, big task to achieve anything of note with the current state of our recruitment.

I’m a big fan of ETH, and believe he can be the guy to get us back to the top. But it feels like he’s being set up to fail.

 

[Borys]

Because no-one can seriously argue that last season's 6th place was just the natural ceiling of a group of limited players all doing their best. It was a catastrophic, club wide meltdown early on that led to fans, manager and players alike losing all faith in each other and the whole project going down the toilet in a dramatic way. Barely any player reached anything close to their potential. I'm assuming there that ETH will get most of his players to at least the personal performance level that Ole got them playing at. I think that's a fair enough assumption, and if he does, then using last season as a benchmark makes little sense.

It's irrelevant what was the ceiling of that group since some of those are gone already, and they have not been replaced. So it's perfectly possible the ceiling of this squad is 5th/6th as things stand.

 

[Flexdegea]

We won’t challenge for title but will see improved passages of play and more balanced distribution of goals this season

Yeah I'm expecting a strong home performance this season and the beginning of teams starting to fear playing us at old Trafford again. Only basing this on how he sets it up and is very proactive.

 

[Hawks2008]

So Martial is out for the first game.

No attackers brought in, Cavani gone, Ronaldo wanting to leave.

We've certainly helped ETH out this summer.

Our recruitment has been almost entirely manger lead, he's as responsible as anyone for the state of our dealings in my opinion.

All we have left is the hope he is a miracle worker with his coaching.

 

[Kill3r7]

Yup. Big, big task to achieve anything of note with the current state of our recruitment.

I’m a big fan of ETH, and believe he can be the guy to get us back to the top. But it feels like he’s being set up to fail.

We have zero knowledge of internal expectations. Maybe we are on a 3+ year rebuild. Who knows?

The current squad composition certainly doesn’t suggest CL or bust. On the other hand the current squad is capable of getting top4 if everything comes up Millhouse which it rarely does. So more talent/reinforcements are likely needed. Hopefully we get them before the window closes or at worse in January.

 

[pocco]

Because no-one can seriously argue that last season's 6th place was just the natural ceiling of a group of limited players all doing their best. It was a catastrophic, club wide meltdown early on that led to fans, manager and players alike losing all faith in each other and the whole project going down the toilet in a dramatic way. Barely any player reached anything close to their potential. I'm assuming there that ETH will get most of his players to at least the personal performance level that Ole got them playing at. I think that's a fair enough assumption, and if he does, then using last season as a benchmark makes little sense.

A lot of other teams will say the same about their teams/some of their players. You are only as good as you perform, and a 12-18 month period, in which we have been dreadful, is enough proof.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Our recruitment has been almost entirely manger lead, he's as responsible as anyone for the state of our dealings in my opinion.

All we have left is the hope he is a miracle worker with his coaching.

This is almost exclusively ETHs own doing. He was adamant about scrapping the players we had lined up and getting his own list.

 

[bosnian_red]

This is almost exclusively ETHs own doing. He was adamant about scrapping the players we had lined up and getting his own list.

And what players did we have lined up
The only links to attackers were Darwin (who Ten Hag wanted, club failed to get), Nkunku (signed a contract extension early on anyway), Raphinha (only wanted Barca) and Antony who who we've been priced out for because we waited too long.

That line is horseshit. Ten hag might have rejected Tielemans/Ruben Neves in favor of a pursuit of Frenkie, but in the actual position we need players in (attack), nothing.

 

[bosnian_red]

Because no-one can seriously argue that last season's 6th place was just the natural ceiling of a group of limited players all doing their best. It was a catastrophic, club wide meltdown early on that led to fans, manager and players alike losing all faith in each other and the whole project going down the toilet in a dramatic way. Barely any player reached anything close to their potential. I'm assuming there that ETH will get most of his players to at least the personal performance level that Ole got them playing at. I think that's a fair enough assumption, and if he does, then using last season as a benchmark makes little sense.

It wasn't, but at the same time, we've lost mainly Greenwood from last season's group. He should've been priority 1 to replace. He hasn't been replaced. And that's what will cost us this season. You just can't go into a season with only Rashford, Sancho, always injured martial and a 37 year old wantaway Ronaldo as the attack options.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is almost exclusively ETHs own doing. He was adamant about scrapping the players we had lined up and getting his own list.

Why do people keep saying this? What evidence is there to make such a wild accusation? And who are all the great players we had lined up to sign that he vetoed?

 

[Ted Lasso]

And what players did we have lined up
The only links to attackers were Darwin (who Ten Hag wanted, club failed to get), Nkunku (signed a contract extension early on anyway), Raphinha (only wanted Barca) and Antony who who we've been priced out for because we waited too long.

That line is horseshit. Ten hag might have rejected Tielemans/Ruben Neves in favor of a pursuit of Frenkie, but in the actual position we need players in (attack), nothing.

There's nothing wrong with it being ETHs fault. Which is fact. This transfer window is a heavy consequence of his decisions and also the board deciding to let him make those decisions. That's ok! It doesn't mean he's a bad manager or leader. Just a steep learning curve that hopefully makes things go smoother next transfer window.

Relax and just let the window play out.

 

[Blood Mage]

There are people defending the transfer window, unbelievable.

It's been a disgrace. No fit striker to face Brighton on Sunday!

 

[dave2528]

This is almost exclusively ETHs own doing. He was adamant about scrapping the players we had lined up and getting his own list.

Who did we have lined up?

Also, it's ridiculous to think that the new manager shouldn't have a say in what players he wants for his system.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, we've yet to kick a ball this season and you're already sharpening the knives and blaming ETH for something that only exists in your head.

 

[Olecurls99]

Is this serious?

So you prefer McFred over Bissouma, Jorginho, Kante? Martial over Jesus? Rashford over Sterling or Saka?

You're seriously underestimating teams that were far ahead of us last season and strengthened significantly already.

I never said McFred are our best midfielders. I don't think the 3 you mentioned are that great.

I don't think Jesus is that great either and I rate our 2 best wingers ahead of Saka. Sue me

 

[sullydnl]

Because no-one can seriously argue that last season's 6th place was just the natural ceiling of a group of limited players all doing their best.

Of course not.

But we could make 11 points worth of improvement on last season and still finish in the exact same league position.

And that's assuming the clubs we're chasing haven't improved their sides since last season, which they have. And also assuming our squad hasn't gotten worse, which it also has.

 

[bosnian_red]

There's nothing wrong with it being ETHs fault. Which is fact. This transfer window is a heavy consequence of his decisions and also the board deciding to let him make those decisions. That's ok! It doesn't mean he's a bad manager or leader. Just a steep learning curve that hopefully makes things go smoother next transfer window.

Relax and just let the window play out.

I'm saying it's a bullshit statement. Some talk of us just going with his call in midfield, sure. But who exactly were the club's targets in attack that he turned down? Our midfield isn't a desperate situation. We have 6 first team midfielders without even looking at youth team players who have impressed. Our attack is our desperate situation. What have the club looked at there? Darwin? Antony? Nkunku? There's been nobody else even mentioned, yet it's a completely desperate situation for the club.

 

[Hantori12]

Usual transfer window by the club. This new guy gets a small pass as it's his first one. Only Chelsea seem to be signing everyone.

 

[Cassidy]

Usual transfer window by the club. This new guy gets a small pass as it's his first one. Only Chelsea seem to be signing everyone.

The transfer window is not the managers job

 

[Massive Spanner]

Blaming ETH is fecking dumb. Even if it were the case that he targeted the wrong players, it's up to the club to decide whether those players are worth going for or to identify more feasible targets to bring in.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Who did we have lined up?

Also, it's ridiculous to think that the new manager shouldn't have a say in what players he wants for his system.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, we've yet to kick a ball this season and you're already sharpening the knives and blaming ETH for something that only exists in your head.

I don't know where you got that from. Seems like you're reading every post with an angry voice. And you're creating a narrative out of nothing. Have you considered working for the media? Maybe a Twitter journalist?

The managers choices have consequences. There's nothing wrong with noting that in the context of this transfer window or anything else. If anything, the only "intention" I have is to add a sense of realism for anyone that expected this window to go smoothly. The chocies made earlier made it very near impossible.

 

[Hantori12]

The transfer window is not the managers job

Not talking about ETH obviously. My point was about Murtough

 

[BackfromtheRed]

I've heard Martinez has also played as a Defensive Midfielder - not sure if that was just an emergency injury crisis measure, but does anyone know anything about that ? Is that a serious option for United, given the lack of obvious options and certainly back up.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Blaming ETH is fecking dumb. Even if it were the case that he targeted the wrong players, it's up to the club to decide whether those players are worth going for or to identify more feasible targets to bring in.

Blame is not the right word. It has the wrong connotation.

It's a consequence. And it is certainly an ETH one because it was a requisite to his hiring. I think it was a good decision and sacrifice to make by leadership.

Shame how many posters can only think in black and white without any nuance. No wonder you're all at each other's throats constantly.

 

[Escobar]

What we gave him to work with is a bloody mess. Our inability to move smart in the transfer market will potentially cost us top 4

 

[Bebestation]

The Board would get shouted at for targeting Ten Hag’s players all season long and at the same time for not targeting them at all.

A no win situation.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't know where you got that from. Seems like you're reading every post with an angry voice. And you're creating a narrative out of nothing. Have you considered working for the media? Maybe a Twitter journalist?

The managers choices have consequences. There's nothing wrong with noting that in the context of this transfer window or anything else. If anything, the only "intention" I have is to add a sense of realism for anyone that expected this window to go smoothly. The chocies made earlier made it very near impossible.

Why don’t you help the quality of discourse by answering his question? I’m curious about the answer too.

 

[dave2528]

I don't know where you got that from. Seems like you're reading every post with an angry voice. And you're creating a narrative out of nothing. Have you considered working for the media? Maybe a Twitter journalist?

The managers choices have consequences. There's nothing wrong with noting that in the context of this transfer window or anything else. If anything, the only "intention" I have is to add a sense of realism for anyone that expected this window to go smoothly. The chocies made earlier made it very near impossible.

Have you considered taking it down a notch, friend? I didn't attack you personally nor did I play armchair psychologist with you. I'm simply pointing out that the season hasn't started and some are already waiving white flags and calling ETH a failure.

I understand that nerves are on edge after last season's debacle but for Christ's sake, can we at least actually fail on the pitch before we start laying blame?

 

[Blood Mage]

People playing into the Glazers' hands by blaming ETH for this catastrophic window rather than their cronies Arnold and Murtough who did zero preparation for it.

 

[bosskeano]

Given where we are and where we finished in the league, along with what has been done in transfer market around us, ETH has been dealt a pretty fuking harsh hand this season. This club should be backing him financially in the market to get the necessary players and putting together a squad that can make a top 4 challenge.

Its a bit shocking at how poor we've been so far getting him what he needs and are glaring holes in the squad at CM and Attacking players.

 

[largelyworried]

A lot of other teams will say the same about their teams/some of their players. You are only as good as you perform, and a 12-18 month period, in which we have been dreadful, is enough proof.

18 months ago we were on route to finishing 2nd in the league after being undefeated away from home all season. Not that I think that was a true reflection of the squad either for what its worth, but it does show how short term you're looking at things here.