Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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kouroux said:
We cannot say for sure he is the sole decider but the focus on the Dutch league is down to him I'd say
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Yes - it's obviously not a coincidence.

But the question is whether Murtough (I'm considering him as our DOF, and I furthermore consider him as being above ETH in the hierarchy) knows what he's doing.

For now - go after players ETH knows and fancies...sure. Possibly.

Possibly not, though.

At any rate - long term, no. Absolutely not. Murtough should only pursue players ETH knows and fancies if they fit a description/profile United (not ETH) have decided is right.
 
Fully expect us to finish 6th this time. ETH is no magician and he cannot work miracles
 
kouroux said:
We cannot say for sure he is the sole decider but the focus on the Dutch league is down to him I'd say
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Things like "Martinez over pau Torres" is ten hag. Go for Antony over Raphina probably as well. There is nothing to suggest there were any targets we missed out on due to a preference fr ten Hag though. He wanted Darwin apparently, didn't pan out. The only other midfielders we've ever had links with were tielemans and Neves, personally not keen on either but apparently both are still backups, so who knows.
 
kouroux said:
We cannot say for sure he is the sole decider but the focus on the Dutch league is down to him I'd say
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That's not really the problem in itself. There have been tons of talented players who have come from teams such as Ajax and PSV, especially younger players. The bigger issue for me is that we had (in my mind) two crucial areas that we needed to upgrade/improve/dramatically overhaul this Summer, which was the upfront/striker position, and central midfield. With the players we've got coming in, they don't help with either of those positions.

If we had spent money on getting a few exciting players for those two positions, even if they came from the Dutch league, I'm sure the fans would be happy. The issue is we're starting our first game with a potential midfield of McTominay and Fred, whilst relying on Rashford and Martial up front - and Martial is now injured, so we can't even choose him. The potential starting lineups for the Brighton game are all underwhelming.

Overall, I think fans have every right to be pessimistic going into the first game of the season. We had a very poor season last year and it doesn't look like the squad has been revamped enough. In some ways, you could argue it is a weaker overall squad compared to the one that started the first fixture last year.
 
bosnian_red said:
Things like "Martinez over pau Torres" is ten hag. Go for Antony over Raphina probably as well. There is nothing to suggest there were any targets we missed out on due to a preference fr ten Hag though. He wanted Darwin apparently, didn't pan out. The only other midfielders we've ever had links with were tielemans and Neves, personally not keen on either but apparently both are still backups, so who knows.
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I would have liked Neves tbh. Not world class but that's the level of players we can realistically get at the moment
 
Superunknown said:
That's not really the problem in itself. There have been tons of talented players who have come from teams such as Ajax and PSV, especially younger players. The bigger issue for me is that we had (in my mind) two crucial areas that we needed to upgrade/improve/dramatically overhaul this Summer, which was the upfront/striker position, and central midfield. With the players we've got coming in, they don't help with either of those positions.

If we had spent money on getting a few exciting players for those two positions, even if they came from the Dutch league, I'm sure the fans would be happy. The issue is we're starting our first game with a potential midfield of McTominay and Fred, whilst relying on Rashford and Martial up front - and Martial is now injured, so we can't even choose him. The potential starting lineups for the Brighton game are all underwhelming.

Overall, I think fans have every right to be pessimistic going into the first game of the season. We had a very poor season last year and it doesn't look like the squad has been revamped enough. In some ways, you could argue it is a weaker overall squad compared to the one that started the first fixture last year.
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Tbh I don't see it as a problem at the moment. It makes sense in a way, I am just predicting that ETH will be criticized on that particular aspect if/once things don't work out
 
kouroux said:
I would have liked Neves tbh. Not world class but that's the level of players we can realistically get at the moment
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I'd take neves over tielemans but generally think he's way too static and slow. He's got a nice long pass on him, but that's about it.
 
BusbyMalone said:
I would also like to know the list of players ETH apparently scrapped when he arrived at the club.
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Alvarez, Pau Tores, Nkunku.
There was rumor RR wanted Luis Diaz and Sesko during winter but ultimately it didn't happen, no idea the board vetoed against it or ETH did.
 
fallengt said:
Alvarez, Pau Tores, Nkunku.
There were rumor RR wanted Luis Diaz and Sesko during winter but ultimately it didn't happen, no idea the board vetoed against it or ETH did.
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I don't think so. He was moaning about the board telling him there was no one available, it sounded more like captain hindsight to be fair

"The answer at the time was no there was no player on the market that could really help us," the German said.

"There were a few, Diaz who is now at Liverpool, Alvarez who will be at Manchester City in the summer, Vlahovic who at the time still was with Fiorentina those are just three of them that come across my mind now.

"I spoke to the board and said shouldn't we at least speak and try and analyse if we could get a player either on loan or as a permanent deal but in the end the answer was no.

"I still believe that we should have at least tried, if we would've found and been able in 48 hours, 48 hours is short notice but it's still 48 hours, it might have been worth to try and internally discuss but we didn't and it was not done."
 
VP89 said:
Came in a third into the season with no window or pre season
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Exactly his point. He came in to a worse squad and still did wonders with them reaching two cup finals because he’s a great coach. He have added 3 signings and few to join and we are panicking not even trusting the manager that we all wanted can do wonders.
 
kouroux said:
Tbh I don't see it as a problem at the moment. It makes sense in a way, I am just predicting that ETH will be criticized on that particular aspect if/once things don't work out
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The fans/media/YouTubers/pundits will always find a way to find faults when things aren't going right, even if there is no correlation. Tbh, even if things are going well, we can still expect to hear criticism of some sort.
 
mu4c_20le said:
I don't think so. He was moaning about the board telling him there was no one available, it sounded more like captain hindsight to be fair

"The answer at the time was no there was no player on the market that could really help us," the German said.

"There were a few, Diaz who is now at Liverpool, Alvarez who will be at Manchester City in the summer, Vlahovic who at the time still was with Fiorentina those are just three of them that come across my mind now.

"I spoke to the board and said shouldn't we at least speak and try and analyse if we could get a player either on loan or as a permanent deal but in the end the answer was no.

"I still believe that we should have at least tried, if we would've found and been able in 48 hours, 48 hours is short notice but it's still 48 hours, it might have been worth to try and internally discuss but we didn't and it was not done."
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Are those real quotes from Rangnick?
 
Kill3r7 said:
We have zero knowledge of internal expectations. Maybe we are on a 3+ year rebuild. Who knows?

The current squad composition certainly doesn’t suggest CL or bust. On the other hand the current squad is capable of getting top4 if everything comes up Millhouse which it rarely does. So more talent/reinforcements are likely needed. Hopefully we get them before the window closes or at worse in January.
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I hope you’re right about the rebuild. But I feel like the powers that be will quickly let the manager take the fall as soon as there’s some real heat.
 
Olecurls99 said:
How does thinking this manager is really good and can achieve good things make me an Ole zealot? That's quite an acrobatic manoeuvre you've pulled off there.
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It seems to be the new go to reply when something is posted they don't agree with.
 
dave2528 said:
I think some of us would just like to hear who you think we missed out on that ETH put the kibosh on.

I'd also like us to take a beating and for the transfer window to be fully closed before we start licking wounds and laying blame.
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It's not simply a case of missing out on players. It's that the transfers we see happening early in the window are the fruits of work behind the scenes months ago. And indeed as early as the spring we had targets earmarked to begin pursuing.

Direct quotes from Rangnick:
"There might be a couple of players that, independent from style of football or new manager, could be of interest for a club like Man Utd.

"I have already named those players to the board."
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That shortlist was scrapped and Rangnick's consultancy as well as part of hiring ETH.

I wanted ETH more than any particular players so was personally understanding of the board feeling the same. But knowing the manager was coming in and only having the chance to do a late assessment - he had talks w Rangnick and it was suggested they didn't agree on several points - it's impossible to be in any other position than we are in. The FDJ situation is a perfect example. It's unwillingness from the manager to compromise on the personnel he brings in. And he's said openly in interviews as such.
 
dave2528 said:
Have you considered taking it down a notch, friend? I didn't attack you personally nor did I play armchair psychologist with you. I'm simply pointing out that the season hasn't started and some are already waiving white flags and calling ETH a failure.

I understand that nerves are on edge after last season's debacle but for Christ's sake, can we at least actually fail on the pitch before we start laying blame?
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Who has done that?

Christ, the negativity of this fanbase is embarrassing ( :cool: )
 
pocco said:
He's not to blame. Unlike Ole and Jose, to an extent, he hasn't been delivered his targets. If the club had such a shambles of a recruitment structure that ETH had to start suggesting targets, not something he has made a name of doing, then that is on the club.
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Which targets hasn't he got?
 
I’d rather us go under the radar and just do our own thing quietly. Theres going to be focus on Liverpool and City doing well, Spurs will have pressure as they’ve got a team ready to win stuff, especially with Son and Kane at peak ages now. Chelsea will need to step up after underwhelming in the second half of last season. Arsenal will be expected too as well with Arteta in his 3rd season.

We‘re in the process of shedding all of our bad Woodward habits, dropping all the troublesome personalities and refilling them with more suited players. We have a new manager in a new league, attempting to play more modern football.
 
alexthelion said:
:lol:
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What's funny? Ramsdale is much better than de Gea for a modern manager at this point. Maybe de Gea can improve on his passing, sweeping and aerial ability, but Ramsdale is miles better than him in those departments. And Gabriel Jesus? What is funny there? Of course he walks into our team, that one is a no brainer. He's quality, and we currently have to hope martial can stay fit (already can't), or 37 year old Ronaldo who wants to leave can press for the first time in his career (he won't). Jesus would be perfect for Ten Hag.
 
bosnian_red said:
What's funny? Ramsdale is much better than de Gea for a modern manager at this point. Maybe de Gea can improve on his passing, sweeping and aerial ability, but Ramsdale is miles better than him in those departments. And Gabriel Jesus? What is funny there? Of course he walks into our team, that one is a no brainer. He's quality, and we currently have to hope martial can stay fit (already can't), or 37 year old Ronaldo who wants to leave can press for the first time in his career (he won't). Jesus would be perfect for Ten Hag.
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Jesus would probably walk into our team not because he is quality but because our options are shite. But Ramsdale :lol:? Absolutely no chance.
 
It is so depressing visiting this and other threads these days. So much negativity even before ten Hag has managed even a single league match.
 
bosnian_red said:
What's funny? Ramsdale is much better than de Gea for a modern manager at this point. Maybe de Gea can improve on his passing, sweeping and aerial ability, but Ramsdale is miles better than him in those departments. And Gabriel Jesus? What is funny there? Of course he walks into our team, that one is a no brainer. He's quality, and we currently have to hope martial can stay fit (already can't), or 37 year old Ronaldo who wants to leave can press for the first time in his career (he won't). Jesus would be perfect for Ten Hag.
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Personally don't rate either of them.
 
dove said:
Jesus would probably walk into our team not because he is quality but because our options are shite. But Ramsdale :lol:? Absolutely no chance.
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Very relevant analysis quantifying the impact of the different aspects of goalkeeping over a season. Ramsdale is very decent overall.
 
alexthelion said:
Personally don't rate either of them.
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Think Gabriel Jesus will surprise you especially this season. He wasn't used properly at City, I was surprised no bigger clubs were after him as I think he'd start for just about any club in the world outside of City, Liverpool and Barca now with Lewa and Madrid.
 
If he's not a miracle maker this season's gonna be an exact repeat of the last one.
 
GifLord said:
If he's not a miracle maker this season's gonna be an exact repeat of the last one.
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I remember everyone saying exactly the same thing about Ralf Rangnick and then proceed to pile on him at the end of the season.
 
fallengt said:
Alvarez, Pau Tores, Nkunku.
There was rumor RR wanted Luis Diaz and Sesko during winter but ultimately it didn't happen, no idea the board vetoed against it or ETH did.
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Yeah, this seems tenuous at best to link these players not coming to United because of ETH. I mean, we're linked to a variety of players at seemingly every moment of the day. I'm sure there are players recommended to the club and the people in charge of recruitment all the time that don't go any further than that for a number of reasons. I'm just not seeing anything that would lead me to think ETH was the man who vetoed this (supposed) list of players.
 
fallengt said:
Alvarez, Pau Tores, Nkunku.
There was rumor RR wanted Luis Diaz and Sesko during winter but ultimately it didn't happen, no idea the board vetoed against it or ETH did.
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Droves of reports have said it was ETH. Seemed like there was a big disagreement between the two and ten Hag supposedly never met with him in person as planned , nixed the player list Rangnick had in place and so forth.
 
bosnian_red said:
What's funny? Ramsdale is much better than de Gea for a modern manager at this point. Maybe de Gea can improve on his passing, sweeping and aerial ability, but Ramsdale is miles better than him in those departments. And Gabriel Jesus? What is funny there? Of course he walks into our team, that one is a no brainer. He's quality, and we currently have to hope martial can stay fit (already can't), or 37 year old Ronaldo who wants to leave can press for the first time in his career (he won't). Jesus would be perfect for Ten Hag.
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Ramsdale wouldn't walk into a number of teams in the league let alone ours!
 
Well we went into last season on a wave of optimism, completely oblivious to the sh1t-show that was about to unfold. Maybe, just maybe, the current pessimism will prove to be equally unfounded.

No, I don't believe it either. But I need something to cling to.
 
Ted Lasso said:
Droves of reports have said it was ETH. Seemed like there was a big disagreement between the two and ten Hag supposedly never met with him in person as planned , nixed the player list Rangnick had in place and so forth.
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Wasn't Alvarez signed for City months before ETH got the job? Unless I'm mixing up Alvarez's.
 
Too many praise for Gabriel.J. Im sure, he wont be as good as 90% of you talk here. No consistency, and im not sure if hes gona be even fit for the entire season. He will take some spotliight but not even close how big expectations you got for him.
 
RacingClub said:
Wasn't Alvarez signed for City months before ETH got the job? Unless I'm mixing up Alvarez's.
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Not sure about the timeline. I. distinctly remember seeing us linked with him, watching very impressive highlights and then seeing him go to city what seemed like a month or two later. Quite possible City were already in advanced stages

Rangnick's claim of giving united a shortlist was well after that Jan window though
 
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