They did but the way this team is setup its unable to stop opposition attacks or our goal being peppered with 20 shots a game regardless of the opposition. We've seen it all season and the manager seems OK with playing this way.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
They did but the way this team is setup its unable to stop opposition attacks or our goal being peppered with 20 shots a game regardless of the opposition. We've seen it all season and the manager seems OK with playing this way.
Coventry messed up big time. They did not do their homework at all. They should have known that if they had only pressed our players a bit the whole team would have collapsed. All they had to do was man mark our player and they would have comfortably won the game. They did not and they still almost nicked it. Grim times.
Is that not an indictment of the manager who by all account had a choice to keep them or let them go? FYI Ronaldo was allowed to go once the manager did not want him here, Sancho was thrown under the bus once the manager wanted to assert his authority.
He has made these players his own and still struggling with them, so his judgement on these players is poor, I have no confidence he will be any different with the any other group of players.
It is a flawed analysis to say they are throwing managers under the bus when the only players that have survived Mourinho in the current squad are Rashford, Shaw and Martial- Martial has been injured for most of his reign and Shaw and Rashford are integral to his plans, what is your point really?
Not sure why the club are still pretending that he isn't fired. Just announce it ffs
Announce it after making it to the FACup final?
What do we mean by consistent, the players that ETH had yesterday have been with him for nearly two years and they were fit. The team that he had yesterday was fairly young and most of the players are also energetic, we are not going to pretend that McTominay, Dalot, Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund and Bruno aren't energetic or young enough, that's 6 members of the starting 11, he also had Mount, Amrabat and Diallo on the bench who are all energetic, relatively young and play in positions where we struggled.
I agree with your point if we are talking about playing at an elite level against an elite opposition. In that case the team will likely be outgun, the issue is that it's not our issue, our issue is that the team is subpar against everyone regardless of who is on the field. And in the case of yesterday, we have better players than Coventry, our slowest players were faster than theirs and none of their players was even close to the technical level of an average PL player(and no this isn't true for United players, not even the ones we don't like).
A better coach would play a system that suits the players available to him.
Ten Hag had no problem getting a tune out of these players last season.
The reality is that Arnold and Murtough gave him the keys to the kingdom.
Murtough ditched Rangnick (Glazers probably influenced) and went full panic mode with ten Hag. He thought he was the messiah and gave him unprecedented amounts of control.
ten Hag has been fully backed by Murtough and co. They allowed him to sign multiple players he wanted. Unfortunately for them, most of them have been poor signings overall. The squad hasn't improved enough after significant investment. It's actually regressing somehow.
They've also fully backed him in terms of disciplining players and moving players on that he no longer wants in his squad due to conflict. He was allowed to discard both Ronaldo and Sancho.
The old regime, Arnold and Murtough, will have to take a large portion of the blame for ten Hag. He's let them down also.
Had Mourinho been given similar control during his time at the club, I think he'd have managed United for at least 4 full seasons.
Murtough ditched Rangnick (Glazers probably influenced) and went full panic mode with ten Hag. He thought he was the messiah and gave him unprecedented amounts of control.
ten Hag has been fully backed by Murtough and co. They allowed him to sign multiple players he wanted. Unfortunately for them, most of them have been poor signings overall. The squad hasn't improved enough after significant investment. It's actually regressing somehow.
They've also fully backed him in terms of disciplining players and moving players on that he no longer wants in his squad due to conflict. He was allowed to discard both Ronaldo and Sancho.
The old regime, Arnold and Murtough, will have to take a large portion of the blame for ten Hag. He's let them down also.
Had Mourinho been given similar control during his time at the club, I think he'd have managed United for at least 4 full seasons.
Whilst I think he should go, I think its also fair to say the key components from last season are either missing most of the season (Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro) or massively underperforming from last season (Rashford, Eriksen, Casemiro)
It is fair but regarding Rashford, Eriksen and Casemiro one has to question our setup. Even if in theory it was a setup that has ever worked anywhere, is it a good fit for Eriksen and Casemiro or even Amrabat? Is that how you optimize their production?
That is fair but the question posed was "could a better manager get a tune out of these players".
Yes but Ten Hag himself had this squad performing better last season. It wouldnt be his fault for the underperformance of some players this season. But the majority of the squad are performing poorly. It can't all be just down to the individual players, very few of them look good in the setup we're employing.
It's like clockwork on here: It looks like the new man's tenure is coming to an end. That can only mean one thing: It's time to overrate the previous man's job and get all misty eyed and sentimental about the shite job they also done. Some of you will never learn.
Yeah, I don't get why Amrabat is being pitched as emergency signing when we'd courted him all Summer, he was a player ETH was familiar with and had known from his Utrecht days. We were just short on revenue to make it work and had to work out a loan deal with Fiorentina to balance the books. Had we been able to sell McTominay, we would have used majority of his fee to secure Amrabat on a permanent deal.
Blimey!
@Skills seconds this post
You're probably not even joking. When I was skimming through the thread, "yes" was apparently at around 30% before the Coventry game, so one game changed 10%.
Okay, yesterday was horrendous despite the win, but it should've been obvious before the Coventry game that ten Hag was out of his depth here. I'm going to assume that if we beat Sheffield in a couple of days, "yes" will go up to at least the mid 20s.
He's genuinely a more negative manager then Jose Mourinho, I'm absolutely convinced of it.
The only difference is he has no clue how to set-up a team to defend... and yet he still insists on it anyway, which is absolutely bizzare.
The only difference is he has no clue how to set-up a team to defend... and yet he still insists on it anyway, which is absolutely bizzare.
Getting pelters and shaming
from Coventry fans at work all because of this manager and his players
from Coventry fans at work all because of this manager and his playersAlso even Amrabat isn't great, he was good in Serie A in a more traditional setup where no one is too exposed on purpose. He is a true DM and energetic. I don't think that he would do far worse than Endo if Liverpool actually managed to land him.
It was quite refreshing to see for the past year or so, that more and more people seemed to care about and judge United for their performances rather than results.
But now i'm seeing this "do you want to fire him having just reached an FA cup final??" from some of the fanbase.
Come on now.
The football is so bad it's almost funny.
along with with tonnes of players, he has to go.
But now i'm seeing this "do you want to fire him having just reached an FA cup final??" from some of the fanbase.
Come on now.
The football is so bad it's almost funny.
along with with tonnes of players, he has to go.
When I say struggling I mean it don’t be a sure thing, they’d be battling to come up
dont get me wrong, I do not think that is the level of most of these players but they struggle against lower league sides because of attitude and tactics
I had this debate a few weeks ago. I think it was Adnan who argued that he wasn't 1st choice.
Onana was probably the 1st choice signing, but Amrabat was high up the list and United/ten Hag knew they could wait until later in the window due to Amrabat's desire to force a move. He basically skipped most of their pre-season, which turned out to be a bad decision. He arrived at United not fully match fit.
It's been a terrible move for all parties. Amrabat burned his bridges with Fiorentina due to his unprofessionalism. And it came only 6 months after trying to force a move to Barcelona in January 2023. United basically paid a very expensive loan fee for a player we won't sign. Fiorentina won't be able to sell him for a good fee now either. Amrabat's contract is up soon.
If the loan had worked out like planned, United were getting a good DM for £29-30 million. ten Hag's defenders would have been calling him a genius instead of putting Amrabat into a loan category. Loan signings don't count according to some fans. Neither do free transfers.
I have seen his Utrecht teams and he does know how to do it. But I will tell you something stranger, before Ajax he used all sorts of balanced 442(flat, 4132, 4312, 4222, 41212, 4411). He has mainly ignored his previous setups and especially defensive organizations to use our current stupid approach, even last season our defensive setup was as far as I can remember largely a 4411 with quick defensive transition which is common because it is very balanced and each player has organic support.
In all honesty, having watched Ajax under Ten Hag, I thought we were getting a good manager. Last season It seemed like we were heading in the right direction, save for some hidings here and there. As has been the case since Ferguson left, it proved to be a false dawn. I don't blame the board for signing him up, although in hindsight, it has proven to be absolutely wrong.
Mourinho's main problems are his toxicity and outdated negative tactics.
AWB played well earlier this season, until he got injured
The constant state of 'we have went ahead so let's sit back and invite pressure' really fecking annoys me. We are nowhere near good enough at doing it. So bloody negative.
I don't think AWB has played consitently well for us since the Solskjaer days. He hasn't improved as player since arriving at United.
He's still an excellent 1 vs 1 defender, but is poor in terms of concentration (back post runs) and positioning while being limited on the ball. Not terrible in his own half, yet offers very little creativity/dynamism in the final 3rd.
Yesterday was finally the day i've accepted we probably need to look elsewhere. It's not that I think ETH is garbage and I think he will go on to have success somewhere else, it's just that I think his position has become untenable at our club.
I left Wembley feeling dejected despite the fact we'd just reached the FA Cup final, it really does take some doing to manage that.
The main reason I wanted to keep ETH is so that the players don't get another chance to impress a new manager and we be in the same position in 18 months time when history repeats itself and our levels drop again. Whoever we bring in, he needs to have a massive overhaul of the playing squad, even if that is sacrificing a season as we can't replace them all, i'd be content to do that. Yesterday was an embarrassing day to be a united fan.
I left Wembley feeling dejected despite the fact we'd just reached the FA Cup final, it really does take some doing to manage that.
The main reason I wanted to keep ETH is so that the players don't get another chance to impress a new manager and we be in the same position in 18 months time when history repeats itself and our levels drop again. Whoever we bring in, he needs to have a massive overhaul of the playing squad, even if that is sacrificing a season as we can't replace them all, i'd be content to do that. Yesterday was an embarrassing day to be a united fan.
I refer you to earlier this season before his injury. People were talking about him bailing down first choice right back. He was showing what he could do going forward etc.
If we get rid of the majority of players we will be sending a five a side team out next season. There will be players who go, but it will not be all of them. We need better assessing of players and if they fit our club, not just ability, but background and character. They also need to look into why we get so many injuries, is it the conditioning coaches, is it the medical side, is it the training methods? If it is the training,medical side then no matter which players we bring in the injury issue will just continue. Problem with ETH is I don't think it has crossed his mind it might just be him causing the issues.
It was a confident run of form but not prolonged enough sadly
Season is a write-off anyway. They are waiting for confirmed CL qualification miss to not pay any compensation. And FA Cup final? We are not beating CL-exit-seething City in FA Cup final. Especially not with such clueless bunch. I don't put the blame exclusively on ETH. The team needs changing as the quality and the values are not there. To not have even a shade of self pride to produce such woeful individual and team performances. Bissaka switching off yet again at crucial time almost costing us defeat before penalties. To get from 3:0 to 3:3 against such weak team as Coventry is disgraceful. Casemiro is finished. Rashford needs selling ASAP. Garnacho a stern coach to improve him. Hojlund needs improving but first he needs service. Antony no words needed. Not of the required level. Of current bunch I don't know how many players I would actually keep. Onana is looking better after a shaky start. Dalot one of the few to come out of this season with any credit. Mainoo, Hojlund, Garnacho we keep. Shaw can't be relied upon fitness wise. Martinez the jury is out if he can stay fit. Varane, Casemiro get them tickets to Saudis. AWB sell. We need strengthening on wings especially. backup seasoned striker, a quality midfielder, new defenders... We need 3/4 of the team actually. And for the love of god get rid of Rashford. Get coach and players that will proudly represent the club and integrate players with the right work rate, quality and positive values that will demand certain performance levels every game not just here and then.
It's been a disgracefully bad season and if anything it's somehow currently worse that it's ever been.
When was the last time we won a game in normal time?
When was the last time we won a game in normal time?
The way we got through he needed so show some humility and showed none at all. His players, bar one showed far more.
You would think that the squads are even remotely similar. Funnily enough one actual common denominator is the attitude of the new managers when they join the club. Instead of working with the squad they inherited they first spend big and overhaul the team. Their big signings are generally subpar even when they are not bad and the manager still don't actually try to work efficiently with what he has until it reaches a point where most of the team is recent and the fanbase claim that all these players(who are mainly new) have let down the manager and the previous managers(that they never met).
Shaw is a really big problem for us, we seem to rely on him yet you know darn well he is going to pick up a number of injuries. The fact Malacia has also disappearred completely has made it worse.
Yeah I definitely think a wider discussion about the tactics is one of the reasons why he needs to go. It just hasn’t worked and he should have changed it if he didn’t have the players. I just think the players got off far too lightly yesterday.
One thing I will say, I thought at one point his in game management was working out great. Now it might be some of the worst ingame management i've ever seen, I dunno how it fell off so badly.
Woke up thinking I might read something about him being sacked, but nah fecking Rattclife you coward.
He's played fewer games for us than Martial despite being here a year longer, and Martial going out on loan at one point.
I know people that left when their goal got disallowed. Said they had just had enough. It sounds like the feeling of dejection was pretty widespread amongst supporters, which is incredible considering that we actually won and got to the final. But this just says it all. Win, lose or draw, it is tough going watching us at the moment and not good for your health
That big injury he got when Jose was here ruled him out for a long time, but it is the niggling injuries that are a worry.
- Status