Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
erikcred said:
I disagree. Look at our fixtures for two years under ETH. Except for the games against Liverpool and City, we were the favourites.

Think we've also had a majority of these games at home?
Click to expand...

Not quite sure if these games were at home or not regardless he got us a 3 cup finals in two seasons.

Whether you want to downplay that achievement it’s a matter of personal preference. Now, I do recognize the finals aren’t the best cup finals to be in, however, still got there.

Chairman Steve said:
Bryan Robson got Middlesbrough to 3 cup finals in 2 seasons in the 90s. Cup competitions aren’t a reliable indicator of how good a team or a manager is, which is why everyone looks at the league when judging managers and teams.
Click to expand...

You are correct I don’t disagree with that. However, he still did get us to three finals in two years, which is something we only did once in six years previously. Along with winning a trophy for the first time in six years.

Mind you I’m not arguing whether he should get sacked or not based on this. I’m just letting the facts be known without the emotional baggage attached.
 
Part of me feels sorry that the fan base can’t even celebrate getting to a final.

At the 70 minute mark 3-0 is a fair reflection of the game. But you can always rely on United to create a negative out of a positive.

Tonight is genuinely a new feeling for me, so strange.
 
Get In Scholesy said:
Big if indeed. Regardless, it’s 3 cup finals in 2 seasons. If he was as shit as some say he is on here, i’m not sure that would have been able to happen.
Click to expand...

With some of the easiest cup runs in history.

Nottingham Forrest, Burnley, Charlton, Wigan, Newport, Reading and Everton.

He did manage to beat Brighton on penalties and a freak result against Liverpool. Not bad for 2 seasons and half a billion. New contract I reckon.
 
Zed 101 said:
I kind of understand where you are going but where is the upside? the only possible positive thing that comes out of it would be if ETH managed to somehow change things around and make significant progress, if he doesn't do that, we will:

  • potentially have spent even more money on players the next manager may not like, or
  • wasted an important transfer window
  • have sent out a message that it is ok to manage the club to the worst season ever and retain your position,
  • potentially seen players like Garnacho alienated, and Rashford further devalued
  • had another season or half season written off whilst seeing teams like Villa and Spurs making progress
  • missed an opportunity to move back ahead of Liverpool
  • further loss of revenue,

Finishing 10th this season instead of 4th would lose us an estimated £13m (I know we may not finish 10th but 7th would still be £7m) add that to the approx £28m from early european exit, missing out on europe next season might cost us conservatively £60m, so in theory ETH this season will have lost the club somewhere in the region of £100m, that doesn't account for intangibles like shirt sales, subscriptions etc. which will all take a dive, this season could well have a massive negative impact carrying over for many seasons to come, consider that against FFP and sustainability, can we financially afford to risk another season under ETH

When ETH came in I was very positive, even when we were poor towards the end of last season I was upbeat for the progress we could make with the right signings, up until Novemberish, I was on the injuries brigade, once we get Mainoo, Shaw, Amad etc... back will see some improvement..... but then reality bites and we have just been so tactically inept, I just do not see how you can reward the abjectly awful tactics and coaching we have seen this season (irrespective of injuries) with another bite of the cherry.

I also cannot get on board with the "we need to stop sacking managers cycle" brigade, they have a fair point but it shouldn't mean we keep a man who has been factually our worst manager (this season) since long before SAF
Click to expand...

I can’t see him keeping his job now anyways. The point I was making was towards there not being enough top coaches available when everyone’s on the hunt for one, that we shouldn’t make a hasty decision.

But how INEOS is approaching this, I see them jumping at the chance of hiring a tuchel than keeping ETH now.
 
E-mal said:
We keep getting embarrassed under this manager, all sorts that you can think for
Click to expand...

We are getting embarrassed by the players on game days.

And no I'm not ETH in.

I played football for a local side in my younger days. I played in MF and it was really not hard to join the attack when we played a "weak" team and keep shape in MF, even dropping back if need be to support the defence.

None of that was the coach/manager doing so. Only time I got told I should join more up top was against a particularly weak side we beat 8 - 0. I stayed back because we were having a field day and even the defenders were in their half having pot shots. But I was worried about them punting one forward and us being out of position.

Now I am not even comparing my football days as anything more than a laugh on the weekends etc BUT I am saying players even at our shit level adjusted on the day.

Our current crop cannot do this. 3 - 0 up and people are complaining about taking off two young men in their breakout season. Because the old heads couldn't just shut up shop. Did they really need a coach/manager to give them that instruction?

City yesterday were 1 nil up. They were on the break in the last few minutes. Dbruyne had the ball on the left and they had players but he just slowed it down and went to the corner flag. Didn't need Pep to tell him this.

LVG, Moyes (according to rio), Ralph and Jose all blamed the players. Hell even Ronaldo blamed them. We need these c it's out of this club before another manager is appointed.
 
I keep thinking about just what is going through his head, I am pretty sure he is a very smart man considering he has reached this place in his career but I can’t understand how he can’t see so many of the most obvious things that most people can see. Like it’s a cup semifinal and because of injuries you have had to play Maguire & Casemiro at CB & AWB at LB so surely common sense says that you play a compact midfield & try to reduce the space in front of them. What does he expect will happen if you take out Mainoo and bring in Eriksen. I just don’t get it at all
 
I fully expect us to be convincingly thrashed in the final perhaps even eclipsing Manchester City's 6–0 victory over Watford in 2019. City will want to humiliate us as they would still be reeling from exiting the CL.

disgusting performance from the team today.
 
He has to go. I was in the Ten Hag in camp but after today and several other embarrassments for the club, I’ve changed my mind.

I mean 7-0 to Liverpool was a sackable offence in my book, but todays performance, and the sorry CL campaign along with so many late goals conceded and shots against record, non pattern of play, and not even any solidity at the back, means he is the worst of both worlds.

there isn’t a huge amount to choose from but Zidane, Ancellotti, Nagelsmann, Tuchel are all possibly free this summer. Or we could go and get Amorim or Gasperini for another up and coming manager.
 
Roane said:
We are getting embarrassed by the players on game days.

And no I'm not ETH in.

I played football for a local side in my younger days. I played in MF and it was really not hard to join the attack when we played a "weak" team and keep shape in MF, even dropping back if need be to support the defence.

None of that was the coach/manager doing so. Only time I got told I should join more up top was against a particularly weak side we beat 8 - 0. I stayed back because we were having a field day and even the defenders were in their half having pot shots. But I was worried about them punting one forward and us being out of position.

Now I am not even comparing my football days as anything more than a laugh on the weekends etc BUT I am saying players even at our shit level adjusted on the day.

Our current crop cannot do this. 3 - 0 up and people are complaining about taking off two young men in their breakout season. Because the old heads couldn't just shut up shop. Did they really need a coach/manager to give them that instruction?

City yesterday were 1 nil up. They were on the break in the last few minutes. Dbruyne had the ball on the left and they had players but he just slowed it down and went to the corner flag. Didn't need Pep to tell him this.

LVG, Moyes (according to rio), Ralph and Jose all blamed the players. Hell even Ronaldo blamed them. We need these c it's out of this club before another manager is appointed.
Click to expand...
BOth can be true @Roane
The players might not be good but the manager also not good enough.
We need to have a plan to get rid of these players and stop giving fat contracts, if that means we dont compete for a while, then so be it.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I keep thinking about just what is going through his head, I am pretty sure he is a very smart man considering he has reached this place in his career but I can’t understand how he can’t see so many of the most obvious things that most people can see. Like it’s a cup semifinal and because of injuries you have had to play Maguire & Casemiro at CB & AWB at LB so surely common sense says that you play a compact midfield & try to reduce the space in front of them. What does he expect will happen if you take out Mainoo and bring in Eriksen. I just don’t get it at all
Click to expand...

this is so true . I can't figure it out.

only thing I can think of is he felt Mainoo was tiring and that eriksen would help us control the game and see it out. But what the manager doesn’t realise is you still need legs in there to see the game out

we need some youth who can keep the ball and run through walls. Hard to find but they are out there.
 
E-mal said:
BOth can be true @Roane
The players might not be good but the manager also not good enough.
We need to have a plan to get rid of these players and stop giving fat contracts, if that means we dont compete for a while, then so be it.
Click to expand...

Not disputing that both can be true. However for me it's shocking that a player would be ambling around at Wembley in spite of the manager. Surely that's not because of the manager?

I mean these are people who are taught to be competitive at a very young age. Where is the self respect of letting a player from the lower leagues show you up?

I currently play cricket and the whole club structure and captaincy is a shit show. Even at 52 I'm pissed if I make a mistake or lose a game. I don't need a manager , captain or whatever telling me to put in effort. Sure I'm done playing at a higher level and this is just for a bit of fun but still.

These blokes are paid a fortune at the highest level. Why would you need a manager or coach telling you to even motivate you. You are playing in front of thousands, watched by millions, your own family and friends. And you look like a tit?

I'm ranting to a degree I know but I don't get it and why I don't place it all on the manager or owners or directors
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I keep thinking about just what is going through his head, I am pretty sure he is a very smart man considering he has reached this place in his career but I can’t understand how he can’t see so many of the most obvious things that most people can see. Like it’s a cup semifinal and because of injuries you have had to play Maguire & Casemiro at CB & AWB at LB so surely common sense says that you play a compact midfield & try to reduce the space in front of them. What does he expect will happen if you take out Mainoo and bring in Eriksen. I just don’t get it at all
Click to expand...

Eriksen was brought on to help us keep the ball; an experienced player brought on for an 18 year old.

You‘d think that they could see out the game at 3-0 up; you may even take off some players to give them rest.
 
Roane said:
Not disputing that both can be true. However for me it's shocking that a player would be ambling around at Wembley in spite of the manager. Surely that's not because of the manager?

I mean these are people who are taught to be competitive at a very young age. Where is the self respect of letting a player from the lower leagues show you up?

I currently play cricket and the whole club structure and captaincy is a shit show. Even at 52 I'm pissed if I make a mistake or lose a game. I don't need a manager , captain or whatever telling me to put in effort. Sure I'm done playing at a higher level and this is just for a bit of fun but still.

These blokes are paid a fortune at the highest level. Why would you need a manager or coach telling you to even motivate you. You are playing in front of thousands, watched by millions, your own family and friends. And you look like a tit?

I'm ranting to a degree I know but I don't get it and why I don't place it all on the manager or owners or directors
Click to expand...
I think you are under-estimating the importance of a manager in professional football but your points are valid to an extent, God bless
 
I said "no"

Not least going back to his summer signings who have been either injured, bang average or piss poor & ultimately this season those summer signings have made us worse not better.
 
He’s getting a lot of shit for the subs but Garnacho and Mainoo both desperately need rest and were three fecking nil up.
 
sugar_kane said:
He’s getting a lot of shit for the subs but Garnacho and Mainoo both desperately need rest and were three fecking nil up.
Click to expand...

True but we've 6 dead rubbers in the league coming up where they could have been given the day off.
 
Pav1878 said:
He has to go. I was in the Ten Hag in camp but after today and several other embarrassments for the club, I’ve changed my mind.

I mean 7-0 to Liverpool was a sackable offence in my book, but todays performance, and the sorry CL campaign along with so many late goals conceded and shots against record, non pattern of play, and not even any solidity at the back, means he is the worst of both worlds.

there isn’t a huge amount to choose from but Zidane, Ancellotti, Nagelsmann, Tuchel are all possibly free this summer. Or we could go and get Amorim or Gasperini for another up and coming manager.
Click to expand...
Wait til you hear Gasperini’s 66.
 
Some of us thought after 4-3 loss at Chelsea that that result would lead INEOS towards sacking ten Hag. Since then perhaps things changed slightly towards keeping him (not because results improved, they worsened, but because there aren't that many options) but the capitulation today... It's just too weird and unfortunately in many ways repetition of Galatasaray games, that Chelsea game, Newport, Brentford, even Wolves away though we won that game. So not an one-off but more of a pattern at this point.
 
I don’t understand the they needed rest part considering this was the first game we have played in 8 days and Garnacho actually played only one half in the last game. We have pretty much nothing to play for in the league.
 
This game was our 45th game in all competitions this season

Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74


If we remove the wins against Newport & Wigan then we are close to even on wins & losses this season and have a negative goal difference. These are just basic numbers without even going into deeper stats which are absolutely horror.
 
BorisManUtd said:
Some of us thought after 4-3 loss at Chelsea that that result would lead INEOS towards sacking ten Hag. Since then perhaps things changed slightly towards keeping him (not because results improved, they worsened, but because there aren't that many options) but the capitulation today... It's just too weird and unfortunately in many ways repetition of Galatasaray games, that Chelsea game, Newport, Brentford, even Wolves away though we won that game. So not an one-off but more of a pattern at this point.
Click to expand...

There are hundreds of experienced managers out there. If Ineos decide they need to make a change there will be options.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
This game was our 45th game in all competitions this season

Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74


If we remove the wins against Newport & Wigan then we are close to even on wins & losses this season and have a negative goal difference. These are just basic numbers without even going into deeper stats which are absolutely horror.
Click to expand...

Shocking numbers
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
This game was our 45th game in all competitions this season

Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74


If we remove the wins against Newport & Wigan then we are close to even on wins & losses this season and have a negative goal difference. These are just basic numbers without even going into deeper stats which are absolutely horror.
Click to expand...
Different CB combinations - 64
Excuses for ten hag - 24
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
This game was our 45th game in all competitions this season

Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74


If we remove the wins against Newport & Wigan then we are close to even on wins & losses this season and have a negative goal difference. These are just basic numbers without even going into deeper stats which are absolutely horror.
Click to expand...
And 14 games so far where we conceded 3 or more goals.
 
Some highlights this season:


- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Newport (A) - 2-0 up against a league 2 side and they get level.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.
- Coventry (N) - 3-0 up with 20 mins ago to a Championship side and but for a toenail would’ve lost 4-3.

Genuinely impressive levels of capitulation. I’d love to hear his team talks.
 
Offside said:
Some highlights this season:


- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Newport (A) - 2-0 up against a league 2 side and they get level.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.
- Coventry (N) - 3-0 up with 20 mins ago to a Championship side and but for a toenail would’ve lost 4-3.

Genuinely impressive levels of capitulation. I’d love to hear his team talks.
Click to expand...

We ended up winning the game but we also threw away a 2-0 and 3-1 lead vs Wolves, Mainoo rescued us with a 97th minute winner. If the game had gone on another 2 or 3 minutes they'd have probably made it 4-4.

Never seen anything like it this season. We could be 4-0 up against a non league side with 15 minutes to go and you'd have your doubts if we were truly safe.
 
Offside said:
Some highlights this season:


- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Newport (A) - 2-0 up against a league 2 side and they get level.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.
- Coventry (N) - 3-0 up with 20 mins ago to a Championship side and but for a toenail would’ve lost 4-3.

Genuinely impressive levels of capitulation. I’d love to hear his team talks.
Click to expand...

Absolutely incredible to think back on...wow!
 
Even taking into consideration that some of the votes for "yes" are from opposition fans trolling, I can't believe around 20% of United fans here would be fine wasting another season on him.

I feel like Fergie's final speech after the Swansea game seriously impacted a good portion of our fanbases mindset when it's come to managers. Back them no matter what.
 
I'm no good at hanging around a relationship when I become dead certain it's not going to work out. I was that certain of Ten Hag a lot earlier this season. Said it would turn everything I know about this game on its head if he turned it around at United. It's actually got a lot worse. The fundamentals are simply not there. We're failing at the very basics of top class football. United/INEOS can decide when to get rid. One thing is sure, we ain't going nowhere with Ten Hag. For me, he might as well leave tonight. There's nothing left to salvage. Put your hands up and start again.
 
I'll say one thing for ETH.

Prior to him taking over we'd been in 12 penalty shootouts, not including the charity shield which is a friendly really, and only won 3.

We're 2 for 2 with him. A very very minor positive :lol:
 
There will be a few managerial changes this season. We could lose out on potential targets by dithering. Even if we only get an interim now, at least prospective managers will know there's a vacancy at United.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.