Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[horsechoker]

The question is: "How many?"
The choices to answer are: "Yes" or "no".

It's not right.

*cocks gun*

Yes or no?

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[FortunaUtd]

*cocks gun*

Yes or no?

No?

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[FortunaUtd]

feck him. Goodbye, what a loser.

 

[horsechoker]

No?

Wrong answer!

 

[Irwin99]

Shouldn't the people who hate him on here be glad if the rumor of him quitting is true rather than having a go at him? I assume if he quits the club pays him no money?

On a related note, I remember LvG offering to quit during his second year and then being angry with what the club did to him. Quite a few parallels with that season. Anyway, it looks pretty much certain that it'll be over soon. I just hope he leaves with the FA cup (very unlikely I know)

 

[Berbaclass]

Ten Hag in those quotes

Spoiler

 

[Xtal]

If the unthinkable happens and we lose to the sky blues tomorrow, I suggest Ten Hag should be denied entry to the team bus. He may as well resign on the Wembley grounds. That'll be funny though.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

The excuses are creeping in with him now, I can't recall him saying things like this up until recently.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

feck him. Goodbye, what a loser.

Why does this quote deserve this response?

Please articulate your view.

 

[JPRouve]

Shouldn't the people who hate him on here be glad if the rumor of him quitting is true rather than having a go at him? I assume if he quits the club pays him no money?

On a related note, I remember LvG offering to quit during his second year and then being angry with what the club did to him. Quite a few parallels with that season. Anyway, it looks pretty much certain that it'll be over soon. I just hope he leaves with the FA cup (very unlikely I know)

There are people that hate him? That's a strong feeling.

 

[Laurencio]

Shouldn't the people who hate him on here be glad if the rumor of him quitting is true rather than having a go at him? I assume if he quits the club pays him no money?

On a related note, I remember LvG offering to quit during his second year and then being angry with what the club did to him. Quite a few parallels with that season. Anyway, it looks pretty much certain that it'll be over soon. I just hope he leaves with the FA cup (very unlikely I know)

Maybe it's a Dutch thing? Threatening to quit and then be all shocked when they take you up on it.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Sure. But you still had a better pool of players to pick from than most of the opposing managers that beat you. What is he? The Paul Pogba of managers where he can be brilliant but if only a magical combination of players are available?

 

[Xtal]

Shouldn't the people who hate him on here be glad if the rumor of him quitting is true rather than having a go at him? I assume if he quits the club pays him no money?

On a related note, I remember LvG offering to quit during his second year and then being angry with what the club did to him. Quite a few parallels with that season. Anyway, it looks pretty much certain that it'll be over soon. I just hope he leaves with the FA cup (very unlikely I know)

Mate, we might have stood a chance against Chelsea. But with City winning, there's no point going to play the final really. Ten Hag (if he remains our manager till then) has zero clues about playing Manchester City. I miss Ole on that, he had the perfect plan for Manchester City. Glory Man Utd.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Why does this quote deserve this response?

Please articulate your view.

I articulated it just fine.

 

[Leftback99]

So many excuses

 

[BenitoSTARR]

feck him. Goodbye, what a loser.

There are people that hate him? That's a strong feeling.

^^^ I’m sure the above is just an example of a completely rational and logical response about a football manager and is in no way personal or vindictive and indicative of an at least extreme dislike of him.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Shouldn't the people who hate him on here be glad if the rumor of him quitting is true rather than having a go at him? I assume if he quits the club pays him no money?

On a related note, I remember LvG offering to quit during his second year and then being angry with what the club did to him. Quite a few parallels with that season. Anyway, it looks pretty much certain that it'll be over soon. I just hope he leaves with the FA cup (very unlikely I know)

Did LVG offer to quit? I had no idea about that. I remember being furious that we missed out on Klopp because we were set on giving LVG a second season though.

 

[Semper Fudge]

I know this isn't your point, but surely Ashworth can advise us to hire Southgate now if that's who he his wanting, or Potter!

I'm sure Newcastle don't have his phones bugged, and private detectives watching his every move.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I articulated it just fine.

I don’t understand the argument or point you are making about Ten Hag in relation to this quote?

Im sure you didn’t mean to just swear and call him a loser that would be adding nothing to the discussion.

 

[FortunaUtd]

^^^ I’m sure the above is just an example of a completely rational and logical response about a football manager and is in no way personal or vindictive and indicative of an at least extreme dislike of him.

I am a football fan. I was happy and over the moon that we hired him, two years later I say, feck him and sack him. It is completely logical.

 

[Dannn411]

So your honest hope is that before a knock out game he resigns?

We might win the FA cup if he resigns.

 

[FortunaUtd]

I don’t understand the argument or point you are making about Ten Hag in relation to this quote?

Im sure you didn’t mean to just swear and call him a loser that would be adding nothing to the discussion.

Because he makes ridiculous excuses for his failure. Just like you.

 

[Bastian]

There are people that hate him? That's a strong feeling.

Look at the last couple of pages. Maybe hate is too strong a term, but he's certainly despised on here. And he apparently is a clueless wanker or something similar.

 

[JPRouve]

^^^ I’m sure the above is just an example of a completely rational and logical response about a football manager and is in no way personal or vindictive and indicative of an at least extreme dislike of him.

Or it's someone that took poorly a quote that is not really palatable. It's not rational because it is a hot take but it is as irrational to jump to the conclusion that it demonstrates hate or to extrapolate it out of context.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Look at the last couple of pages. Maybe hate is too strong a term, but he's certainly despised on here. And he apparently is a clueless wanker or something similar.

Every manager post SAF gets called that, it's endearing nowadays

 

[FortunaUtd]

Or it's someone that took poorly a quote that is not really palatable. It's not rational because it is a hot take but it is as irrational to jump to the conclusion that it demonstrates hate or to extrapolate it out of context.

I am a football fan. I was happy and over the moon that we hired him, two years later I say, feck him and sack him. It is completely logical.

Because he makes ridiculous excuses for his failure. Just like you.

Exactly this. Of course I don't "hate" Ten Hag. Although I do hate him as our manager right now. It is really not that hard to understand, it is a completely normal situation for a football fan to be in.

 

[JPRouve]

Look at the last couple of pages. Maybe hate is too strong a term, but he's certainly despised on here. And he apparently is a clueless wanker or something similar.

Being upset with someone or their work doesn't mean that you hate them. Maybe there are people that hate him, I don't really know but the examples that you are trying to use are more than a stretch.

 

[Bastian]

Being upset with someone or their work doesn't mean that you hate them. Maybe there are people that hate him, I don't really know but the examples that you are trying to use are more than a stretch.

Like I said, maybe hate is not the term, he's despised on here.

Every manager post SAF gets called that, it's endearing nowadays

And then a couple of years after they've gone some people think maybe they were on to something.

 

[JPRouve]

Like I said, maybe hate is not the term, he's despised on here.

There is no maybe. We both know that the word was used to paint a particular picture.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Starting to sound like some of his defenders

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I am a football fan. I was happy and over the moon that we hired him, two years later I say, feck him and sack him. It is completely logical.

I am a football fan too. And a Manchester United one.

Im not sure why his quote about not having a full squad available was so triggering you felt compelled to swear and call him a loser?

Can you articulate the reasons why you are unhappy?

We might win the FA cup if he resigns.

We might win if he doesn’t too?

I don’t think we’ll beat City in either scenario though so it’s a pretty poor argument to have to sack someone.

Because he makes ridiculous excuses for his failure. Just like you.

I’m not excusing failure, I’m explaining it in context.

Please point out any explanation I have given that is factually incorrect about this season in relation to Ten Hag? There must be something I have posted otherwise you’re attacking the poster not the post here.

Or it's someone that took poorly a quote that is not really palatable. It's not rational because it is a hot take but it is as irrational to jump to the conclusion that it demonstrates hate or to extrapolate it out of context.

Why is the quote not palatable?

I’m glad you agree it is completely irrational as a response to words spoken that are also factually correct.

It’s not extrapolation. If someone says “feck him he’s a loser” believe it or not I don’t believe that person likes the person they are talking about. Call it intuition?

 

[FortunaUtd]

I am a football fan too. And a Manchester United one.

Im not sure why his quote about not having a full squad available was so triggering you felt compelled to swear and call him a loser?

Can you articulate the reasons why you are unhappy?

We might win if he doesn’t too?

I don’t think we’ll beat City in either scenario though so it’s a pretty poor argument to have to sack someone.

I’m not excusing failure, I’m explaining it in context.

Please point out any explanation I have given that is factually incorrect about this season in relation to Ten Hag? There must be something I have posted otherwise you’re attacking the poster not the post here.

Why is the quote not palatable?

I’m glad you agree it is completely irrational as a response to words spoken that are also factually correct.

It’s not extrapolation. If someone says “feck him he’s a loser” believe it or not I don’t believe that person likes the person they are talking about. Call it intuition?

At this point you are actually being obtuse, no point to go on.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Exactly this. Of course I don't "hate" Ten Hag. Although I do hate him as our manager right now. It is really not that hard to understand, it is a completely normal situation for a football fan to be in.

Maybe express your opinion in that way then so that it adds value to the discussion and isn’t just negative without context.

It’s very tiresome to see posts like the initial one quoted which just come across hate fuelled and reactionary which it’s my understanding is not what this thread or the forum is meant for.

 

[JPRouve]

Why is the quote not palatable?

I’m glad you agree it is completely irrational as a response to words spoken that are also factually correct.

It’s not extrapolation. If someone says “feck him he’s a loser” believe it or not I don’t believe that person likes the person they are talking about. Call it intuition?

He is once again deflecting criticisms and making excuses. Some people will rightfully have an issue with it.

 

[FortunaUtd]

It’s not extrapolation. If someone says “feck him he’s a loser” believe it or not I don’t believe that person likes the person they are talking about. Call it intuition?

Just one last hint: Maybe the person used to like, or would like to keep liking, the person they are talking about but are now very, very disappointed with them. Is that an acceptable state of mind to you?
Now stop playing dumb.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

At this point you are actually being obtuse, no point to go on.

So you can’t explain why you feel how you do and also cannot point out a single post I have made that was a “ridiculous excuse”.

That’s a shame it feels like you’re not open to explaining your views when someone is asking you to.

It’s also coming across like you’re just attacking the poster now with a baseless accusation and not anything they’ve actually posted.

Shame.

 

[Sarni]

Good luck with that considering pretty much no team ever has full squad healthy.

 

[Laurencio]

So you can’t explain why you feel how you do and also cannot point out a single post I have made that was a “ridiculous excuse”.

That’s a shame it feels like you’re not open to explaining your views when someone is asking you to.

It’s also coming across like you’re just attacking the poster now with a baseless accusation and not anything they’ve actually posted.

Shame.

Ten Hag has not failed, and has been successful, last season, and there is no need whatsoever to constantly conjure up doomsday scenarios. We have 6 points from 3 games. It is not excellent, it is not horrible. As for recruitment setting him up to fail, let us just at least wait until the end of the window, can we not? And to introduce the notion of sacking him is, honestly, pure lunacy. Some on here are suffering from what could be called football club dysmorphia.

I cannot even believe anyone would pose this question.
Five games into the second season, after a very good first season. People need to get their heads examined.

I am not saying he should be immune to criticism. Am I happy about the current state of his management, and about the development the team has taken over the last half a year? No.
But still let us break down your argument.

1. Over those 60 games, long spells were very good. We also had deep cup runs and won one. All in all, last season has to be classified as a successful one, in no easy circumstances. To start off, this has to be punctuated with a period.

2. About the money spent, most of it was to replace outgoing players. Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Ronaldo, and then De Gea, Bailly, Jones, Tuanzebe all left on free transfers. Fred, Elanga, Telles left for very little money. Obviously in order to replace them or even begin to try to improve the squad, money had to be invested. In that context, 400m really is not incredibly much.
Has that money been invested wisely? Partly yes, partly no, partly doubtful.
- The investments in Casemiro, Lisandro and Onana were necessary and good. Lisandro is quality and a fighter, exactly what the team needed. Casemiro was a great addition last season, a seasoned world class player to upgrade on Matic. The GK position desperately needed action, and we signed the GK of a CL finalist.
- The investment in Antony has not turned out to be good. Malacia, unconvincing but not terrible as a squad player.
- Mount, Amrabat and Höjlund, it makes no sense to judge them, as they have been injured and Höjlund is a kid just getting his first games. Mount is a hard-working, yet creative and forward-thinking midfielder whom just a year ago, in light of his heroics under Tuchel, would have commanded a much larger fee. Will he be the right choice, we do not know yet, but it is certainly not an absurd or wrong transfer to have made.
If you ask me, Höjlund was baffingly expensive, but let us not pretend that the striker market is ripe with bargains, and arguably the state of this position in the squad would have required even more investment.

But there we arrive at the nexus of Ten Hag's management and the overall club management at DoF and CEO level, which is quite clearly where the problems lie.
- The squad is riddled with problems stemming from the chaotic period our club has been going through. Manager recruitment has been confused, opportunistic, ill-timed, and so has been player recruitment. We are paying the price in that the squad is patchy, uneven and has basically been a value- and talent-destroying deadwood generator. Clearly that affects squad building - getting rid of players is unprofitable and difficult, restraining possibilities to get new ones. With regards to that last point, it does not help that the club negotiators have suddenly discovered the need to take a hard line on fees when it would be needed to get rid of a player. Of course, better negotiating and not being taken for mugs is what we all were screaming for, but holding out for more money just out of a sense of pride does not seem intelligent when it keeps us from moving on. But obviously I do not know the fine print and insides of finances, negotiations and FFP requirements.
- The club has attempted a structural shift/update with the position of a DoF and the change of CEO, albeit without bringing in proven expertise from the outside. I was willing, and sort of still am, to give Murtough a chance, but the input into squad planning and its execution from the DoF position is looking very questionable. Signings still tend to be opportunistic (Casemiro and Mount, even if both are quality additions and there is nothing wrong with taking opportunities) and there is no sense of a strategic and shrewd squad building apart from plugging present holes. It seems reactive, and many transfers came very late in the windows.
- In the absence of a proactive DoF line, there is a somewhat worrying tendency to amend squad planning by bringing in players Ten Hag knows. Now, DoF-manager constructs are always difficult to balance, and part of that balance should indeed be to let the manager have a couple of players he favours even if consequent scouting would suggest other alternatives. After all, the manager needs to engineer team chemistry and for that, his judgement and confidence is vital. But it does look like we need more expertise and decisiveness from the DoF side to balance squad building if, as the case of Antony shows, the manager gets it wrong, as can and will happen.

The DoF was installed by the board and works within the parameters set by them. Either he is just an extension of their general obtuseness towards running a football club (having been promoted from within), or rather his ability to act competently, decisively and proactively is hampered by that obtuseness. I am assuming it is a mixture of both, with the weight on the latter.
Because there is the main problem:
The club has been put up for sale, in the middle of Ten Hag's first season. If our owners were not much interested in Man Utd's essence as a football club before, they are now not at all so. The grave situation is that we are owned and run by people who are not invested in the club's future at all. It is not hard to conclude that this also means a reluctance or downright refusal to make consequential decisions and investments into the squad, instead we have been chasing cheapskate loans for anything other than the most needed core additions. That is the hand Murtough has been dealt, one year into his tenure. It also means board, CEO, DoF have no clear future at the club which surely can only add to the sense of disconnect between club, fans, manager, and board.

So are we going to acknowledge the severity of this situation, the hand that has been dealt to Ten Hag, or are we really going to senselessly debate about his sacking? Ten Hag was the right hire, he is a quality manager. He is not the only quality manager out there, but he is not the problem.
To adress your point about his tactics, he seems to be struggling, and I cannot help but feel this is connected to him trying to be pragmatic. Whether that is the right approach, I do not know, arguably the circumstances of the squad are not favourable for the free-spirited and commanding tactical reset we were expecting. But he has shown resiliance before, and he deserves our continuing if critical support. So do our players.

That being said, after the Bayern game, where really there is nothing to be lost, we have four games against weak opponents. Away to Burnley and Sheffield, home to Palace and Brentford. We need 12 points from those, nothing less, and no excuses.
Not even refereeing.

To

feck him. Goodbye, what a loser.

That's the post of a frustrated and fed up fan who's lost hope in the manager.