Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Berbaclass said:
No, that isn't what is going on here pal.

You for whatever reason think I'm attempting to defend ETH. I'm not.

You like this thread being an ETH out echo chamber and cant handle it when anyone doesn't agree with your point of view.

My point is clear regarding there being a difference between blaming him for tactics (which is a completely valid criticism because it's his decision and his decision alone) and blaming him for training (which is a complete guessing game because none of us have a clue of how it's set up, who does what specifically and to what level the intensity is set at).

You are attempting to try and discredit me through sheer whataboutism, and to an extent trying to be insulting. Hence me telling you to grow up.

From now on I just won't respond to you anymore because you couldn't be any more transparent.
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Well I didn't actually say you were trying to defend Ten Hag, but whatever. All I said is you go off on mad tangents. And I didn't actually accuse you of trolling either. I simply said I've suspected it. If you tell me you are not OK fair enough I'll take you at your word.

I will say though you do seem to be overreacting just a tad.
 
Great news. Mr negative goal difference wants assurances. Hopefully we can move on from this mess. It's gonna be very hard for someone to bring us back to where we should be but it's certainly not him.
 
You'd have to be a bit of an arrogant wanker to demand assurances from your bosses after performing so badly at your job
 
The Hilton said:
I don't really want to get snarky, so I'm not gonna bite this time, but "if we're being honest" is unnecessarily condescending and undermines the idea that you're debating in good faith.

As for his disciplinary measures, I'd say they've been much more successful than previous managers. Ronaldo basically ran roughshod over Ole and Rangnick, Mou had key players in open rebellion, LVG had half a team playing his way and half a team trying to default to a mid block, really we've been governed by player power since Moyes took over. Sancho is gone, as he should be given his behaviour, whereas under any of the previous managers he'd have become a dressing room poison.
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You've read a lot into one phrase there mate to be fair. If you're going to sing Ten Hags praises on disciplinary issues then I think it's fair to bring up examples where squad discipline hasn't been great. Is that not fair game no?

Struggling to see how that is condescending or amounts to discussing in bad faith. This isn't a Facebook or Twitter positive echo chamber. Things will be challenged on here, which is a good thing. Or at least I thought so.

The Hilton said:
Have us playing proactive football, looking like a well drilled team and winning doing so. I'm sure we might have done a bit better going back to the trusty mid block of the past decade, but for me that's a worse option than trying to adopt a new approach, even if we fail at first.
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Yeah well that's a pretty low bar, but is he trying to implement a new approach?

Is this how he wants to play long term? Because it won't work with pretty much any set of players. The defence are setup in a deep low block and the midfield and attack attempt to press high but both are totally detached from each other and both play like they've been set up in different styles of play. Basically working against each other it makes little sense. It's cost us the chance of any sort of decent finish in the league and seen us finish bottom of one of the weakest groups in the CL.

What has actually been gained with persevering with this setup all season in your opinion?
 
Berbaclass said:
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Theres simply no way EtH or any sane manager walks away from a role and forfeits the 10 million he will be due if we actually have sense and give him the boot.

Echoing what a few others have said I reckon regardless of what happens for the rest of the season we will wait until the performance related clauses kick in for missing top 4 and he gets less of a payoff.

Although if we lose to Coventry tomorrow he should be gone instantly at full time.
 
Another slow news day… “nameless sources”
It’s almost like they’re making things up again..
 
Jev said:
I’m actually astounded that 30 percent want this nightmare to continue. Really thought only a very small minority was still behind him. You lot deserve the football you’re getting.
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It's the sheer delusion that given time he will suddenly turn into Fergie amazes me about his fan base.
 
Dannn411 said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Exactly what came to my mind. He really thinks he's all that doesn't he? Deluded is not the word.
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The article is obviously bollocks, he's not going to walk away given the salary he's on and it's probably the biggest job he will ever get but there's a decent chance the club will decide to make a change.
 
Berbaclass said:
I think you make fair points in regards to some of those examples. I see most of them as setting the standard rather than being downright stubborn.

If he was just as intense and stubborn at Ajax then why did they not have comparable levels of injury?

Is it possible that our squad is just made up of or built around key players that are just totally not up to the level physically or are somewhat injury prone. Casemiro, Varane, Shaw etc.
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Unfortunately statistics on injuries aren't easily found, a quick Google search reveals that Ajax had plenty of key players injured at the same time throughout the season and had situations like Martinez and Shaw with repeat injuries. But without data, it's anecdotal and meaningless.

Injury proness doesn't explain season long repeat injuries and the number of injuries we sustain, particularly the amount of muscle injuries to players with relatively low game-time. Muscle injuries are mainly caused by impact, march overload or training intensity. On average you expect 15 muscle injuries per season with good load management. We cutrently have 7 players out with muscle injuries.

Let's also look at the individual players injury proness.

Casemiro is closing in on being more injured this season than the past 4 seasons combined. He's spent more time out of action with us this season than he was when he fractured his fibula shaft in 2016.

Shaw has been out all season with repeated muscle injuries. In total days injured only his ligament injury in 2016/2017 and double foot fracture in 2015 matches that.

Martinez has never been this injured before.

Mount has been injured for longer this season than the entirety of his career up to this point.

Quite a few of our players are having the longest injury absences of their careers. For some the increased PL minutes are probably partly at fault, but some of these players barely play and are injured in training. That can't be blamed on lacking the physicial level to compete in the league.
 
Robertd0803 said:
Theres simply no way EtH or any sane manager walks away from a role and forfeits the 10 million he will be due if we actually have sense and give him the boot.

Echoing what a few others have said I reckon regardless of what happens for the rest of the season we will wait until the performance related clauses kick in for missing top 4 and he gets less of a payoff.

Although if we lose to Coventry tomorrow he should be gone instantly at full time.
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The thing about Ten Hag is hes meant to come from a family of wealth (I read somewhere). It makes it interesting if this Mullock article is true as it means he's really is not that bothered about the money.

When he first started talking to us before joining there was talk of a german club in the champions league that was trying to hijack the negotiations (perhaps Dortmund). But he chose us even though we werent in that tournament. I cant remember whether it was from an interview or an article but it later came out that he joined us for the challenge and our club history.

Hardly any manager leaves because they werent given assurances. Even Ole hung on after heavy defeats until we pulled the trigger.
 
TsuWave said:
Do the fans that defend Ten Hag find him culpable/responsible for anything, at all?

I see people here excusing him for results/table position, performances, transfers (for which he was adamant in having “decisive” input on), training and adjacent injuries etc. What’s the point of him/What does he do?
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AndySmith1990 said:
Indeed. They essentially argue that the man in charge of the entire first team, is not responsible for most of what goes on in the first team.

It's like arguing with a flat earther. The nonsense is off the scale
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Please both quote such posters.
 
Berbaclass said:
If he resigns then use the money and give it to Newcastle
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What money? There is no spare 20m between the sofa cushions. If anything if Erik resigns at the end of the season and Ashworth is still tending to his garden, it will give Newcastle more leverage.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
You'd have to be a bit of an arrogant wanker to demand assurances from your bosses after performing so badly at your job
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Do we know what kind of assurances this speculative narrative suggests? I know it's all the rage to hate on him at the moment, but he could be looking for assurances such as being supported over individual players (which would be a pretty low prerequisite). Does this suggest that he's demanding a new 5 year contract on the back of this glorious season?
 
stevoc said:
You've read a lot into one phrase there mate to be fair. If you're going to sing Ten Hags praises on disciplinary issues then I think it's fair to bring up examples where squad discipline hasn't been great. Is that not fair game no?

Struggling to see how that is condescending or amounts to discussing in bad faith. This isn't a Facebook or Twitter positive echo chamber. Things will be challenged on here, which is a good thing. Or at least I thought so.
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The phrase "if we're being honest" and then going on to state your opinion is obviously not a good faith discussion. It's only slightly better than the usual "anyone who disagrees doesn't understand football" rubbish you see thrown around the forum. We can have a genuinely good faith discussion here, but that involves not framing your opinion, no matter how strongly you believe it, as the only possible opinion. By all means disagree, I can see where you're coming from, but statements like that are about shutting down discussion and, ironically, belong on Facebook or Twitter comments that you deride rather than as part of a genuine debate.

stevoc said:
Yeah well that's a pretty low bar, but is he trying to implement a new approach?

Is this how he wants to play long term? Because it won't work with pretty much any set of players. The defence are setup in a deep low block and the midfield and attack attempt to press high but both are totally detached from each other and both play like they've been set up in different styles of play. Basically working against each other it makes little sense. It's cost us the chance of any sort of decent finish in the league and seen us finish bottom of one of the weakest groups in the CL.

What has actually been gained with persevering with this setup all season in your opinion?
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I'd say we're about a season closer to adopting a Ten Hag's system, the gap between midfield and defence is obviously not what it'll look like when we have the players to make it work, but we'll never adopt another system if we don't persevere with it ,just like last season we couldn't pass out from the back given the personnel we had, yet that's improved a lot. It's not like we can stay in our mid-block comfort zone until we've got the players we want and then just switch to camping in the opposition half without issue, we have to start trying to transition at some point, and I'd much rather we continue to do so, with Ten Hag or anyone else that comes in, rather than revert back to the usual mid block when things inevitably get tough.
 
NLunited said:
So that Ashworth can hire Southgate. Great plan.
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I know this isn't your point, but surely Ashworth can advise us to hire Southgate now if that's who he his wanting, or Potter!

I'm sure Newcastle don't have his phones bugged, and private detectives watching his every move.
 
This doom mongering about Ten Hag leaving before Ashworth is in place makes no sense. His impact will be built up over years, not weeks, and certainly not through the first managerial hire.
 
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