You’re so funny mate, have me in stitches. Your condescending humour is a charm you shouldn’t lose
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
There's nothing to learn from the remaining fixtures that we don't know already. In the highly unlikely event that we go on a run, it would be an anomaly in what would be a 2 year stretch.
Our attacking output has been terrible under EtH with just 43 (-1GD), loweat in the top 13, scored in the league this season and 58 (15GD) total last season, only Villa (51) scored less last term in the top 9.
For me, this points to a serious issue with coaching. With the right coach almost any player can improve to a higher level. You can see this when watching Brighton, for example, individually you could say United have a better squad with like for like better players but they are coached much much better than we are. You can see that every man knows their role in the team and what is expected of them. This doesn't mean that they win every game but they have a solid, clear plan to approach every game.
EtH seems like he has the footballing morals that match Uniteds and I'm sure he has a plan/style but his lack of coaching ability to get that over to the players is obvious to all.
It's a fresh start for United with SJR and his crew coming in, a perfect time for a clean sweep in the dugout. Also, although on gardening leave, I fully believe the new employees will be in contact and be making decisions already.
EtH, I've no ill feelings and I wish you well and with that said, goodbye!
Our attacking output has been terrible under EtH with just 43 (-1GD), loweat in the top 13, scored in the league this season and 58 (15GD) total last season, only Villa (51) scored less last term in the top 9.
For me, this points to a serious issue with coaching. With the right coach almost any player can improve to a higher level. You can see this when watching Brighton, for example, individually you could say United have a better squad with like for like better players but they are coached much much better than we are. You can see that every man knows their role in the team and what is expected of them. This doesn't mean that they win every game but they have a solid, clear plan to approach every game.
EtH seems like he has the footballing morals that match Uniteds and I'm sure he has a plan/style but his lack of coaching ability to get that over to the players is obvious to all.
It's a fresh start for United with SJR and his crew coming in, a perfect time for a clean sweep in the dugout. Also, although on gardening leave, I fully believe the new employees will be in contact and be making decisions already.
EtH, I've no ill feelings and I wish you well and with that said, goodbye!
I've got the feeling that you want to give him more time but have no clue why other than wanting to roll the dice and see what happens when he's given players instead of being able to choose for himself. But it sounds so simplistic and arguably stupid that you struggle to explain it yourself.
That was one of the reasons, if you can't work out why having better people in the most important postions for youself without having a scientific breakdown to statisfy your needs of the potential benefits then that's not my problem, it yours.
New structure will stop overpaying for average players, Antony, will offer up better alternatives that suit the system rather than a bunch of individuals. We havent had anyone in place to identify this since Fergie, Mourinho tried but was blocked by the Glazers. He wanted Pogba and Martial out and Perisic to come in as he didnt trust Shaw either.
How this will affect Ten Hag next season is to stop handing out contracts to players not deserving of them, will also include performance related bonuses in them so if they play well they get paid more. All these changes will directly affect ETH if he stays.
Transfers, rather than overpaying for 1 player, we get 2 replacements for the same money, helps with the rebuild and injury crisis.
Getting rid of players who dont perform, similar to not renewing contracts for undeserving players, Martial for example. Instead of keeping hold of them, sell them within a year to 18 months if they dont make the cut, get some money back rather than losing them for free and paying a contract for 5 years.
Not sure what else the new guys will bring, but thats a few advantages, im sure the improvements to data analysis and the medical team will also be beneficial.
INEOS just don't want to rock the boat as they want us to try and get CL. I can't see any way they can keep him without looking stupid when it inevitably goes pear shaped again.
It's obvious he'll never compete for the league or CL. Absolutely nobody will complain if he's sacked, it's basically a free hit for them and they'll take it.
It's obvious he'll never compete for the league or CL. Absolutely nobody will complain if he's sacked, it's basically a free hit for them and they'll take it.
To a would be smart arse like the one I was talking to then it clearly seems so, but is that so wrong even if it's true?
So you don’t know. Just the best people in the best place. That’s great for the club, obviously. Doesn’t sound so great for ten hag and certainly not a reason to keep him.
On the one hand it's getting harder and harder to defend him. on the other I wonder who else is out there who can get this bunch of players to perform?
All the talk about getting new players in is pointless until we can get rid of some of the present squad, but who will pay them the stupid wages we are paying.
I've got a feeling EtH will still be here next season, and we will still be going around in circles.
All the talk about getting new players in is pointless until we can get rid of some of the present squad, but who will pay them the stupid wages we are paying.
I've got a feeling EtH will still be here next season, and we will still be going around in circles.
Even these guys sign duds, and they don't magically force teams to sell players for cheaper. So I don't think all of that will necessarily be true.
The purpose of these positions is continuity amongst other things. They make the coach replaceable by outlining the overall vision. They'll come in and no doubt tell ETH how they want us to play, and it certainly won't be how he has us playing. At that point they'd have to ask themselves why bother keeping him and not hiring somebody that is proven in delivering the football they want.
I just found it amusing that all this dancing around and new structure talk is really just about the players, like a poster suggested. Is it wrong? Probably not, if thats what you believe then it is what it is.
To expect him to be an elite manager with the right players though, I can only imagine you guys are still thinking about that night at the Bernebau. You still think he can get us playing like that, don't you?
Just stop, Ten Hag is likely going nowhere, so you'll just have to deal with it some other way,
Thank you. Someone who actually has an idea instead of just repeating best people. I fully get the transfer bit, I didn’t think of the bonus’s you mentioned and how they can help.
I asked a question you couldn’t answer. No need to get spicyThis is what my thinking of structure was. Continuity in how we play as a club and transfers aligning to that. It’s why I’ve been curious enough to ask after seeing so many people say let’s see how he does under a new structure if I was missing something as that doesn’t seem like it’s magically going to help him next year. I didn’t realise it would upset folk so easy
No, but I take your point.
I think I my biggest issue is I fear what might follow him.
It wont always be true but hopefully stops us overpaying for players like we have done for years now. Instead of getting Antony, they would provide alternatives for half the amount for example, no gaurentee of success but means an extra 40m not wasted if it goes wrong and also means sell on fee and wages will be attainable for buying teams. Sancho is an example of a massive loss we will take, we could end up paying some of his wages to the new buying team because he earns so much unless he takes a massive pay cut.
Theyve already reduced the wage bill which is a good start, reduced the loan repayments by bouncing credit cards. I dont think ETH is the right man for the job personally, seems too stubborn to adapt to the new structure telling him how to play the team, considering he has no tactical awareness as it is.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,284
- Supports
️
So you post this sarcastic comment and can’t handle getting a bit back.
See above. If you want a genuine response ask a genuine way. You know I’m more than happy to.
Good point. He could be the last great failure of the glazernomic structure.
No problem, Im sure theres other advantages, read about Wilcox being a link between the owners and coach and the youth team etc to highlight players to bring into the first team. We havent had this at the club so its a massive improvement. We also have football people in higher positions of influence rather than money men only interested in the balance sheet.
Even with the stream lining of the staff at the club could help, maybe too many people doing the same job and causing confusion, too many differences of opinions and not sure who to listen to, just my view on it.
Having a good structure in place should help us stop conceding a huge number of chances a game.
I did ask in a genuine way. See post 86,324. Your answer was a sarcastic one. Hence my reply. It’s fine. Looks like people don’t like answering it anyway. Let’s just all believe the structure will help ten hag next year
Again, thank you. And I’ll look into that Wilcox too
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,284
- Supports
- ️
It was no different in tone to half of the thread in here. Then difference being you don’t like my tone as I’m not usually condemning Ten Hag.
Your post was clearly being disparaging about your perception of my posts and my understanding. What did you expect back?
Im perfectly capable of explaining the benefits but when I do I get told I’m excusing Ten Hag or whatever else it may be.
Do you believe it will harm or hinder him then?
It's something that pays in the long run. It's not a magical fix that will make Ten Hag look better than he is.
To your satisfaction, there is a difference.
Go on then, what does Zlatan 7 see the best way forward for United next season
You're right, but none of that affects Ten Hag, especially in the short term. He's signed loads of players as it is, what is he hoping, we'll be able to sign even more?
See what pocco just wrote. I think the renewed structure and the way we’re heading is fantastic for the club and the future. Not an immediate help for ten hag, as some people seem to be suggesting.
I think the best way forward is for the new people in charge to get a new manager in that aligns with their vision for the squad and future
Yes. Will Omar Berrada tell ETH that it’s maybe not a great idea to play without a midfield and leave acres of space to pass and run into in our half?
A day later, I do not actually feel the Chelsea game pushed me any more towards the feeling we have to sack him right now.
As maddening as that ending was, it was actually a much better performance than the game before. It was a crazy, entertaining game.
And the players clearly do not play against him even if they seem tactically lost at times. We came back from 0:2 but then we just cannot defend a lead. It is the same picture as before, the players are trying, hell they are even fighting. They play some great stuff intermittently. But they are set up to fail, ultimately.
There is no urgency to sack him now. No interim of any quality will be able to come in and affect our season much positively now. Next season's CL is likely gone, let him go out with a cup win, hopefully, and bring in a new manager in summer. Lay the groundwork now, though. Hopefully Berrada and Ashworth can make some phone calls from their garden.
As maddening as that ending was, it was actually a much better performance than the game before. It was a crazy, entertaining game.
And the players clearly do not play against him even if they seem tactically lost at times. We came back from 0:2 but then we just cannot defend a lead. It is the same picture as before, the players are trying, hell they are even fighting. They play some great stuff intermittently. But they are set up to fail, ultimately.
There is no urgency to sack him now. No interim of any quality will be able to come in and affect our season much positively now. Next season's CL is likely gone, let him go out with a cup win, hopefully, and bring in a new manager in summer. Lay the groundwork now, though. Hopefully Berrada and Ashworth can make some phone calls from their garden.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,284
- Supports
- ️
Well there is an immediate benefit to improved transfer identification, negotiation and incentivisation of incoming players and those at renewal. We negotiate better, we have more funds for other talent or at very least minimise the risk of signing players and being unable to shift them if they fail.
There is an immediate benefit to a harsher culture of good enough or gone.
There are medium to long term benefits for a coach in terms of the marginal gains approach to data science, medical teams etc.
There are medium to long term benefits in terms of connections between agents, agencies and other sporting professionals brought in by INEOS, Ashworth and others. United have reportedly struggled in this aspect recently.
The commercial benefit of having a Berada should see us able to increase our revenue and invest in facilities to improve the medium to long term too. This hopefully helps us with profit and sustainability which also means more funds accessible to invest in the playing staff.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,284
- Supports
- ️
So you don’t think it will help at all in the short term?
What if their vision is to play high pressing transition football? What if they’ve already had conversations with Ten Hag about this? What if having had those conversations the two parties are aligned?
And you don’t think that is undone by keeping a manager who has us playing like a bottom-half team?
To be fair I asked you and not Pocco, that aside who do you suggest the new manager will be?
No but he can give him more structure and support, for example hire assistant coaches that will take care of tactics so that ETH doesn’t have to do that.
Berrada’s and all other executive’s job will first and foremost be to ensure Erik ten Hag has everything he needs to succeed. If he fails at that then we hire a different CEO to build structure around ETH.
I see. And transfers will be taken away from him too which will help immensely. Then we’ll just need someone new to deal with man management and another one to do media duties and we’re almost there.
Sorry, I did just repeat what he said to be honest and added my own to it. I didn’t need to write see what he wrote, was just pointing out I agreed with him.
I’ve no idea who the new manager can or will be. I just think our football hasn’t been upto standard for over a year with ten hag.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,284
- Supports
- ️
That is your opinion. I don’t believe it is shared currently by those in power. INEOS will make that decision and I trust them to do what’s best for the football club.
What is my opinion? That we’re playing like a bottom-half team? You will not find a single stat that suggests otherwise.
Players should not need motivation and if they do, they are wrong players.
And most definitely we should have PR experts to take care of media.
Suppose we’ll need one to take over training as well as that seems to be a bit of a problem area.
- Status