Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Laurencio said:
Then explain the merit.
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Lack of options to replace him.
New structure to give him proper support for the first time.
Ineos deciding they want to keep would only be done if they thought he could turn it around.
He was clearly a decent manager at Ajax, and for a decent period of time for us last season.
it's been proven that sticking with managers after they take a step back can work out sometimes.

I am not even that fussed if he does go, but if he does then I want a manager that I can get excited about coming in, and not some Moyes (Potter/Southgate), or Jose (Conte/Tuchel), type manager coming in to mess things up for another 3 years.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Lack of options to replace him.
New structure to give him proper support for the first time.
Ineos deciding they want to keep would only be done if they thought he could turn it around.
He was clearly a decent manager at Ajax, and for a decent period of time for us last season.
it's been proven that sticking with managers after they take a step back can work out sometimes.

I am not even that fussed if he does go, but if he does then I want a manager that I can get excited about coming in, and not some Moyes (Potter/Southgate), or Jose (Conte/Tuchel), type manager coming in to mess things up for another 3 years.
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What does this mean?
 
Oranges038 said:
Why would Utd want him if Germany have a poor tournament?

I'm of the firm opinion that it doesn't matter if ETH stays or goes, most of the current squad need to feck off too before Utd will come anywhere near winning trophies consistently over a number of years.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: Exactly. Such a weird phrasing. He'd still be a good choice should ETH go, but I don't see it happening.
 
I would really like to know how this new structure is going to help or unleash ten hag so much. Genuinely curious.
What is this magic new structure everyone is pinning so much hope on? I can see that that they will get someone in to over see footballing direction and transfers but what is going to help ten hag so much next season working under this new structure?
 
I am very divided on ETH. On one hand, I like him as our manager. What he did last season was excellent, even though there are many out there now who don't want to acknowledge it. I also like him as a personality - he seems like a genuinely nice dude. On the other hand, 12 defeats in the prem by the start of April and bottom of the group in the CL is hard to look past - even with all the injuries that we've had. I think the sheer number of losses this season will ultimately cost him his job, but I think he's still a top manager and will do well somewhere else.

As an aside, the thought of Southgate as a replacement makes me want to cry.
 
Jev said:
What does this mean?
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Cliché. The structure exists more to protect the club from the manager (that is, to mitigate the consequences of his decision-making) rather than the other way around.
 
Worst record in the top 5 big leagues in terms of shots given up

no point prattling on about it, we all know his failings now at this stage.

I wonder what Steve McClaren as input into this is? Surely he knows that the formation or how ETH applies it is a non starter. Does ETH take no direction from his number 2?
 
golden_blunder said:
Worst record in the top 5 big leagues in terms of shots given up

no point prattling on about it, we all know his failings now at this stage.

I wonder what Steve McClaren as input into this is? Surely he knows that the formation or how ETH applies it is a non starter. Does ETH take no direction from his number 2?
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It's always difficult to work out the influence of the backroom staff.
Most of the cafe had convinced themselves Carrick and McKenna were just dummies when they were here, yet both are doing good stuff elsewhere as the main man.
Totally different scenario and size of challenge etc, but I bet they aren't conceding 30 shots a game to midtable rivals.
 
Alex99 said:
Ashworth and Wilcox aren't yet in post, and they'll be the primary decision makers for hiring a new manager.

We're in the shit with FFP and it will cost us to sack Ten Hag, but he's only got a year left on his contract.

There are currently no standout candidates available to come in now or at the end of the season.

Not sure that's enough merit for me to want him to stay, but I can see the logic behind the decision if it happens.
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This is not merit though, there's no mention of what it is about him as a manager that merits getting another season.

C'est Moi Cantona said:
Lack of options to replace him.
New structure to give him proper support for the first time.
Ineos deciding they want to keep would only be done if they thought he could turn it around.
He was clearly a decent manager at Ajax, and for a decent period of time for us last season.
it's been proven that sticking with managers after they take a step back can work out sometimes.

I am not even that fussed if he does go, but if he does then I want a manager that I can get excited about coming in, and not some Moyes (Potter/Southgate), or Jose (Conte/Tuchel), type manager coming in to mess things up for another 3 years.
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The structure will be there for anyone. What about his performance as Man Utd manager over the past few season gives us reason to believe he merits a third season? Given the tactical issues we have this season, the quite terrible records he's set as manager and considerable underperformance by several players - including those specifically recruited by him, how has this manager shown that the can build and manage a football side capable of winning the title?

Can he come out top in tactical battles with the best in the world, and when has he shown that? Can he adapt the game plan to the situation we are in, the competition we are competing for or the opposition we are playing, and when has he shown that? There are concerning performances against sides that are quite clearly and obviously less talented and have considerably less ability than us, why is that?

Another thing to keep in mind, is that his contract expires next summer, so if you intend to keep him without undermining his position as manager with a lame-duck season, you also have to consider extending his contract.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I would really like to know how this new structure is going to help or unleash ten hag so much. Genuinely curious.
What is this magic new structure everyone is pinning so much hope on? I can see that that they will get someone in to over see footballing direction and transfers but what is going to help ten hag so much next season working under this new structure?
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It won’t. Its a narrative that emerged from people fumbling for excuses for him back in October when it became clear he was not up to it. The ‘structure helps him’ argument bought him until the summer many believe.

Give him as many well scouted players as you like and get to the top on sports science so injuries reduce and we’ll still be playing this back 4 front 6 crap or trying to play rashford and garnacho in behind with kick and rush crap.

FFP has bitten us and we aren't going to be able to change the squad as much as we need to this summer so it will be more of this turd every week if we keep him into next season
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
We're replacing the structure that supports the manager from no marks, to the best money can buy, how is the original point hard to understand?
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So transfers?

you said the new structure is going to give him support. Is it that hard to explain what you mean instead of being cryptic
 
Laurencio said:
This is not merit though, there's no mention of what it is about him as a manager that merits getting another season.



The structure will be there for anyone. What about his performance as Man Utd manager over the past few season gives us reason to believe he merits a third season? Given the tactical issues we have this season, the quite terrible records he's set as manager and considerable underperformance by several players - including those specifically recruited by him, how has this manager shown that the can build and manage a football side capable of winning the title?

Can he come out top in tactical battles with the best in the world, and when has he shown that? Can he adapt the game plan to the situation we are in, the competition we are competing for or the opposition we are playing, and when has he shown that? There are concerning performances against sides that are quite clearly and obviously less talented and have considerably less ability than us, why is that?

Another thing to keep in mind, is that his contract expires next summer, so if you intend to keep him without undermining his position as manager with a lame-duck season, you also have to consider extending his contract.
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Not fussed about the contract, if he smashes it next season he'll sign a new one, if he doesn't then we get to sack him on the cheap.

But at the end of the day if new structure deem it's worth giving Ten Hag another season then we can't argue with it, at the same time if they sack him then I'll trust they are doing it for the right reasons, and have a well thought out plan in place.
 
Jezpeza said:
It won’t. Its a narrative that emerged from people fumbling for excuses for him back in October when it became clear he was not up to it. The ‘structure helps him’ argument bought him until the summer many believe.

Give him as many well scouted players as you like and get to the top on sports science so injuries reduce and we’ll still be playing this back 4 front 6 crap or trying to play rashford and garnacho in behind with kick and rush crap.

FFP has bitten us and we aren't going to be able to change the squad as much as we need to this summer so it will be more of this turd every week if we keep him into next season
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The idea of the structure being poor was confirmed by Ratcliffe himself.

"If you look at the 11 years that have gone since David Gill and Sir Alex have stepped down, there have been a whole series of coaches, some of which were very good - and none of them were successful, or survived for very long," Ratcliffe said.

"And you can't blame all the coaches. The only conclusion you can draw is that the environment in which they were working, didn't work. And Erik's been in that environment."
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Id argue he knows more about the club having been involved in talks for over a year than we do.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I would really like to know how this new structure is going to help or unleash ten hag so much. Genuinely curious.
What is this magic new structure everyone is pinning so much hope on? I can see that that they will get someone in to over see footballing direction and transfers but what is going to help ten hag so much next season working under this new structure?
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The one thing a good structure can do is give ETH the right players for whatever style of football we want to play, rather than the ones he thinks fit that style, as his judgement seems to be questionable.

Having said that, I doubt that new structure will make a huge difference going into next season because it isn't in place yet and even if it is in place in the next couple of months, it will take time to get going and will be limited in what it can do in one transfer window.
 
Amir said:
The one thing a good structure can do is give ETH the right players for whatever style of football we want to play, rather than the ones he thinks fit that style, as his judgement seems to be questionable.

Having said that, I doubt that new structure will make a huge difference going into next season because it isn't in place yet and even if it is in place in the next couple of months, it will take time to get going and will be limited in what it can do in one transfer window.
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Yeah, so direction on how we want to play and transfers. I doubt that will immediately help ten hag next year so when I read let’s see what he can do under a new structure, how long into the future are people looking. I’m yet to see what else this structure involves and no one really goes into detail with it, It’s constantly just called structure. The structure will help :lol:
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Yeah, so direction on how we want to play and transfers. I doubt that will immediately help ten hag next year so when I read let’s see what he can do under a new structure, how long into the future are people looking. I’m yet to see what else this structure involves and no one really goes into detail with it, It’s constantly just called structure. The structure will help :lol:
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I mentiond it a few days earlier in the thread of this week's podcast. Saying we should keep him next season because he may do well with the new structure is pointless. The effectiveness of that structure will not be judged next season anyway.
 
gaffs said:
Not often you get a decent caller on a TalkSport show, but this guy came with the facts....

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I hope that was sarcastic.

The first thing that came to mind after listening to that was the famous clip from Billy Madison. "What you just said was one of the most insane idiotic things I've ever heard...".

He talks about Bayern sacking Nagelsmann and Chelsea sacking Tuchel, look at what the state of those clubs are now after sacking them :lol: it's pretty much universally agreed that Bayern sacking Nagelsmann was the wrong decision.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
So transfers?

you said the new structure is going to give him support. Is it that hard to explain what you mean instead of being cryptic
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I suppose I get the point, but having the best we can get in the main posts at the club has to give you a better chance to succeed than the mess we've had since he first came here.

Worst case scenario they deem Ten Hag is not good enough, and replace him, but if the opposite is decided then I'm willing to give him another chance,
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I suppose I get the point, but having the best we can get in the main posts at the club has to give you a better chance to succeed than the mess we've had since he first came here.

Worst case scenario they deem Ten Hag is not good enough, and replace him, but if the opposite is decided then I'm willing to give him another chance,
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I don’t want to sound a dick but you still haven’t answered and it seems you don’t even know how this structure will help. Just keep saying the best people in the best places. I get that but how will that directly affect ten hag next season.

I sound like a broken record but to me the structure is all about footballing philosophy of the club and getting the right people in to deal with that and get the players and manager required. That’s not going to happen immediately for ten hag next year.
 
mu4c_20le said:
#TenHagUnleashed will be something, I can feel it.


Darn these structure cultists
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Yeah Ratclifffe blaming the structure such a cultist. I reckon he’s a Ten Hag fan boy top red type?

He must think an interim a sexual favour from an Italian football side.
 
Rista said:
Very true and what many have been saying for some time now. I'm now seeing some arguments that it's not ALL Ten Hag's fault so he deserves more time. It doesn't have to be all his fault. Ultimately he's still responsible, that's literally part of the job. You can't back a manager more than pretty much any other manager has been backed and then use every excuse under the sun for him. Literally no other top club would tolerate this and here we are still thinking whether he will be sacked or not. No other top club would take an eventual cup win into consideration when making a decision like this either.
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Thanks for sharing whoever did that. Most of these points have been made in this very thread. Kudos to the caller who started off with the baseline “Big clubs change managers when targets are not achieved” and proceeded to list out all of the fired managers after winning the league.

‘That’s it in a nutshell. If we want to challenge year after year for titles and silverware, then that has to be the standard. If we are happy with 6th or 7th then we should keep Ten Hag. A mediocre manager for a mediocre club.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Yeah Ratclifffe blaming the structure such a cultist. I reckon he’s a Ten Hag fan boy top red type?

He must think an interim a sexual favour from an Italian football side.
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Your posts are the threads font of all knowledge, can you shed light on how it’s going to directly help ten hag next season and what the new structure exactly entails apart from football philosophy and transfers.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I don’t want to sound a dick but you still haven’t answered and it seems you don’t even know how this structure will help. Just keep saying the best people in the best places. I get that but how will that directly affect ten hag next season.

I sound like a broken record but to me the structure is all about footballing philosophy of the club and getting the right people in to deal with that and get the players and manager required. That’s not going to happen immediately for ten hag next year.
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Right, so you've answered your own question.

I didn't say that would happen immediately for Ten Hag, but was a reason to keep him, and give him a bit more time.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Right, so you've answered your own question.

I didn't say that would happen immediately for Ten Hag, but was a reason to keep him, and give him a bit more time.
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So it’s getting the right players. That’s not going to happen for a few seasons. That’s more than a bit more time. And it’s not going to help him as much as people are making out next season.

edit. So it’s not really a reason to keep him is it.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Out of interest did you read the thread?
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Admittedly I haven't before making that post, but now that I've looked at it, it just seems to be yet another attempt at excusing ETH's underperformance on injuries.

Isn't it the manager's job to get the best out of all of his players, not just our first XI? If said players can't play the way he wants to, isn't it the manager's job to get the players he wants that can perform the job?

We're statistically hovering around the bottom for metrics, like shots conceded for example. Are our backups just flat out not good enough to play in the PL?

At a vacuum, I can understand the underperformance in results relative to injuries. But not only are we unable to get results, but our core foundation is also rotten - we don't know how to control matches, we don't have a defined style of play - ETH's been manager for almost 2 seasons now and he can't figure it out still?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
So it’s getting the right players. That’s not going to happen for a season or 2. That’s more than a bit more time. And it’s not going to help him as much as people are making out next year
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It's not going to take that much for us to show alot of progress next season. Progress usually equals more time.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Your posts are the threads font of all knowledge, can you shed light on how it’s going to directly help ten hag next season and what the new structure exactly entails apart from football philosophy and transfers.
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If I answer can you promise not to be like Reg?

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
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BenitoSTARR said:
The idea of the structure being poor was confirmed by Ratcliffe himself.



Id argue he knows more about the club having been involved in talks for over a year than we do.
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the structure is poor - the narrative it helps him when it changes is faux because he is a poor manager appointed by the old poor structure
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I don't know what your problem is tbh, you're just trying very hard to be clever arse for some reason.
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No, I’m not. I even said I’m not trying to be a dick but this constant talk of let’s see what he does under a new structure had me wondering exactly how it would help him next season. Then I seen a post of yours where You said you’re willing to give him another season. And a reason for that is the new structure. All I wanted to know is how that is going to help him directly next season. The best you came up with was the best people in the best places and non answers.
 
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