Our whole backline barring couple of them isn't fit for purpose for various reasons , Similar thing could be said about our midfield options and despite our lack of goals I am most confident in our frontline that they could play some role in successful United's side .
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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I have some sympathy for ETH because he has a bunch of players that are simply not good enough when the pressure is on, so many players just lack any form of composure and no amount of coaching will change their ways.
However, he has also proven that he is a weak manager and incapable of implementing a style of play to maximise performance with the players he has at his disposal.
He has just refused to drop certain players regardless of performances and not used other players that deserve a chance.
Whilst I still think he is a decent manager under the right circumstances, he does not seem to fit what we need going forward.
If he leaves then at least half this squad should go with him otherwise the new manager will go down the same path with these professional bottlers we have as players.
However, he has also proven that he is a weak manager and incapable of implementing a style of play to maximise performance with the players he has at his disposal.
He has just refused to drop certain players regardless of performances and not used other players that deserve a chance.
Whilst I still think he is a decent manager under the right circumstances, he does not seem to fit what we need going forward.
If he leaves then at least half this squad should go with him otherwise the new manager will go down the same path with these professional bottlers we have as players.
If it's just about calming a game it's actually not that difficult that you have to say the players are incapable of that style. I agree that they probably aren't suited to breaking down defences by intricate passing etc, but they all should have enough technical ability to keep the ball in deep positions and take a breath while doing that. But they obviously need to be coached to be confident about that option. Always passing quickly forward in such situations can be a symptom of fear of losing it in dangerous positions. The team needs to become more confident in possession just to be able to calm things down.
No doubt he made his fair share of mistakes last year but we were a far better team overall and I'm baffled at how we've managed to go backwards. Everything has gone to shit this season from the managers set up and tactics, players losing form and injuries piling up. By far the biggest positive from this season is the rise of Mainoo and Garnacho, ten Hag deserves credit for bringing through those players.
Ironically I would say he made the wrong call given how open the game was Garnacho right, Rashford left (a combination which has been working well) would have probably provided a better outcome, the amount of space we had in the first half would have suited Rashford on the wing, not knocking Antony, apart from his part in the 1st penalty, if he never kicks another ball in a utd shirt that pass will go down in history....
which kind of brings me to another thing that bugs me, ETH insists on playing a left footed right winger and a right footed left winger, when you see how effective crosses can be especially when you have quick players on the break it boggles my mind that we have players who cannot naturally cross from the position they are in (I am missing Beckham still), who either have to cut in or run right around the back
ETH has had 3 windows to address this issue and players who are not Mount were available, are you telling me we could not have signed Ndidi for the same or less cost? irrespective of that I am fed up with the injuries and incorrect personnel excuses.... we have consistently fielded 9 or more players who are current full internationals this season each game, we are not fielding kids or 1st division players, these are players who have made it to the top of the game on merit, ok so they may not be ETH's ideal but a manager has to utilise the players he has not the players he wants to have, no midfield? play 5 at the back and have AWB and Dalot tuck in to support the midfield.... it ain't rocket science other teams do it all the time, the issue is trying to force players who are not suitable for his tactics and formation to play that way and expecting still after 2/3rds of the season for it to work, it is idiocy
That Liverpool win in the cup masked the issues we have with this guy. Will be a painful end to the season. I just hope the club make the right decision and get rid in the summer. Hopefully they are scoping out a new manager now.
I'm always reminded by the Ajax vs PSV Dutch Cup final the season before he joined us. We defend as porously as that Ajax side and only seem to know how to attack and without controlling the game. It's a good watch when you have the right players that fit the system but it did strike me as a bit naive at the time.
This is the strange thing about this all, when he first came he did a great job of taking out underperforming players (Ronaldo, Maguire, Sancho etc..) but hasn't shown that same ruthlessness lately.
Rashford started against Brentford and we were horrendous, one of the worst games we've played in the last ten years. I don't think him switching it up was a bad decision and as I say he was rewarded with a decent performance from Antony, penalty aside.
Rashford as usual did his usual jogging around when he came on, but it made sense to try and light a fire under him.
Citing internationals ignores the fact that a lot of these guys are finished (Casemiro) or just don't work together.
I agree he could go more pragmatic but I respect his decision that he is sticking to his game plan until we can fill out those gaps, as that's what I wanted him to do months ago - even if the results are often dire to watch.
Correct - but he has chosen to adopt a philosophy of quick transitional play. Moreover he's fostered an approach of high risk stakes, be it suicidal attacks to salvage a game, going all in for 1v1 defending and risking dangerous set plays/open chances or as you eluded to, taking the high risk high reward pass rather than keep it simple.
He has also come out in interviews many times this season and said "we should have kept the ball better at times and not rushed".
My view is that he's failing to find the balance between the two - he can say we slipped up on going too adventurous one or two times but its now a chronic problem. I maintain my view that he's a good coach, but he's a coach that's trying to speed up this squad to a level that they'll never get to. The style he wants to implement only works for a prime side, hopefully us, maybe 3 seasons down the road. He should know that we aren't ready to play such high stakes football because we dont have the football intelligence for it.
I wanted to see how he was when he had key players back, but its becoming more and more apparent that he's not able to find a system that flourishes for this squad.
So according to you we should either shut shop or just persist with the same guy hoping for miracles, by that logic no club should ever sack their manager for who knows if given enough time, the said manager will magically transform into Sir Alex.
Eric’s credentials -
1. Winning league titles with Ajax. Even Frank De Boer has 4 titles.
2. Reaching semis of UCL. Plenty of nobody managers have done that before.
What’s the point of keeping a manager who actually can’t be blamed for anything as he is not responsible for anything at Manutd according to many, except whenever we win, he should get the applause, rest times it’s the fault of the players, the kits-man, the tea lady, and so on and so forth.
He loves surrendering late winning positions to Poch eh?
His in game management is baffling. I swear there was a period last year where it seemed almost all the time he made a change it would turn the game in our favour.
Now he either does nothing when it requires a change or makes a change whilst we're cruising and makes things worse.
A lot of options available are due to him too.
His in game management is baffling. I swear there was a period last year where it seemed almost all the time he made a change it would turn the game in our favour.
Now he either does nothing when it requires a change or makes a change whilst we're cruising and makes things worse.
A lot of options available are due to him too.
Took some months but it feels like you and I are finally agreeing on EtH
I'm fine with the basic philosophy he has chosen, but as you say he didn't create the right balance. He obviously knows that's what his team should do when he himself mentions it at times, but he just hasn't coached that into this team. Maybe the players are also too stupid to make this switch to keeping control when necessary, but somehow I think who is able to run in a straight line should also be able to calmly walk instead if he is asked to do so.
Exactly. You don’t magically become a retentive team at the most pressurised point in a game without a hell of a lot of familiarity with the ball and keeping it where you want it to be (control).
A lot of fans seem to believe it’s as simple as switching a light on/off. The reality is that they are likely to be even more nervous and prone to mistakes because they have zero confidence or familiarity with the ball.
Focus on the cup and rotate in the league now.
He's probably over the tipping point anyway but can go out with a trophy and if not he's given more time to kids to develop them for next year.
He's probably over the tipping point anyway but can go out with a trophy and if not he's given more time to kids to develop them for next year.
I agree with this point, seems like ETH wanted to jump from A to Z in one leap, ignoring the "build-up" phase completely.
On the other hand, there's nothing sophisticated to our game. It's not like we're trying to play from the back and failing, or playing complicated triangles around the box. We play very simple football that requires players to be at the top of their game all the time (keeper, one midfielder, striker especially; lack of Martinez is more important because we can't play through midfield). So no, he's not a good coach, having an "idea" that is almost impossible to be implemented with current squad is not enough to call him "good coach".
‘The quality of our football is really high’ was a quote from last night.
It’s not even a system or formation it’s 11 players running around like headless chicken, I’ve seen better setups in Sunday league football.
Dumped out of Europe in the group stages (easy group I might add), 6th in the league at best and an outside shot at an FA Cup is a terrible season when there’s nothing to build on. Arteta and Klopp didn’t have the best early years but you could see a vision and plan, I generally think ETH is fecking clueless.
It’s not even a system or formation it’s 11 players running around like headless chicken, I’ve seen better setups in Sunday league football.
Dumped out of Europe in the group stages (easy group I might add), 6th in the league at best and an outside shot at an FA Cup is a terrible season when there’s nothing to build on. Arteta and Klopp didn’t have the best early years but you could see a vision and plan, I generally think ETH is fecking clueless.
It's baffling how in the last 5 days we were literally 2 minutes combined away from crucial 6 points and we ended up getting 1.
We are heading for below 60 points season and no matter what the circumstances are, this is absurd.
He is not the only problem, but he definitely is a part of it.
feck it, get Jose in to finish the season. He has better chance in winning FA cup than Eric. Not even joking.
We are heading for below 60 points season and no matter what the circumstances are, this is absurd.
He is not the only problem, but he definitely is a part of it.
feck it, get Jose in to finish the season. He has better chance in winning FA cup than Eric. Not even joking.
I said to my friends earlier in the season that Rashford and McTominay is a weird hill he's willing to die on. I was dismissed because Rashford is "struggling" and McTominay is a "fighter", whatever these mean.
I guess I'm going to be proven right.
I agree, the buck stops with him, but there's a whole lot of personal responsibility that's needed from the players for chucking that lead away.
There's still time yet to rescue this season.
Brentford are a completely different team and everyone stank against them, they far more compact striking out on the break, my point was that against wide open Chelsea Rashford would have been playing to his strengths, as was Garnacho, unfortunately Antony does not have that pace, and TBH he had an OK game the pass and penalty aside, I would not say he was in anyway otherwise stand out
I just do not get the "pragmatic" view you take.... so you would rather a manager not demonstrate flexibility in order to secure results, instead sticking blindly to his principles? so basically we need to secure a squad of what 18+ players who perfectly fit ETH's tactics, how long will that take and how much will it cost? we are probably 10 players short of that as things stand, and what then? when have a squad which is specialised and can play only one way... unless you are mid 2000s Barcelona other teams will find ways to nullify what you do as you are predictable, and if ETH does leave (after getting this high press high defence team) where does that leave the squad?
I do not mind ETH having a preferred style and working towards that but I would much rather have a manager who can roll with the punches whilst he gets where he wants to be
Absolutely, I don’t think anyone in here who defends the players is suggesting they’re good enough for more than a semi regular cup win and top 4. However, you can build on that, you can’t build on shite managers deciding they want everyone replaced because they aren’t going to win the league this season. We need some form of consistency season on season before we can even start to dream about the big titles.
Time, yes, but ability, no. Top 6 looks shakey to me.
I am very often left with the thought that Managers are being ordered to play certain players, I had the same thoughts when Solskjaer was here, and to an extent Jose too.
At this club, who really knows what the heck goes on behind the scenes..
It is not about being patient or totally irrational like Boehly at Chelsea. They will NOT depend on whoever the manager is and the structure they are putting in place will have a big say in how this summer will shape up. So this justification to keep Eth, as some posters are putting it, so that he can clean house is not relevant irrespective of whether he stays or is fired.
There’s some superb players in that squad.
Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojilund are going to be at the top of the game for a decade. We have an 80 million defender we beat city to, two 5 times champions league winners, Rashford who scored nearly 30 goals last year. Fernandes who scored for fun when we first signed him. A £55million goalkeeper who played in the champions league final the year we signed him. Mount, Sancho who were England regulars. Shaw the most expensive teenager ever who we fought Chelsea for. Anthony who shows what he can do in spurts. We can’t keep blaming the squad, it’s Eric’s squad, he signed a lot of those big names. It’s his job to get the best out of them and to get the people in place to help them stay injury free. There’s no more excuses.
He proved he can be pragmatic last year (and brave where required eg. taking on Ronaldo) and it resulted in a decent season, he's gone in the opposite direction this year.
I honestly don't care that much about top four, we're miles away from challenging in the CL and any player who only wants to come to the club to play CL football can do one. I'd rather we singularly pursued a style of play which I think Ten Hag is doing.
I disagree that we need ten players, we need to bolster the midfield and central defence with mobility and intelligence and ideally, with players that can stay fit. That negates the issue of being wide open in midfield which is our biggest problem.
With how the money have been wasted by all our managers post Sir Alex , If it were upto me I wouldn't let the new coach anywhere near recruitment or selling of the players let them earn that right and even then we can't cede complete control ever .
Whose fault is all despite spending hundreds of millions?
We can play
Mainoo - Bruno
Garnacho - Mount - Amad
Hojlund
Worth a try.
Anyway I'm pretty sure Rashy will be happily jogging on Sunday anyway, looking a bit frustrated, a bit disinterested and a bit shit.
Not expecting any experimenting, rotation or change whatsoever.
Mainoo - Bruno
Garnacho - Mount - Amad
Hojlund
Worth a try.
Anyway I'm pretty sure Rashy will be happily jogging on Sunday anyway, looking a bit frustrated, a bit disinterested and a bit shit.
Not expecting any experimenting, rotation or change whatsoever.
I've been in the camp of sack him at the end of the season for some time, but honestly, if we lose to Liverpool I think we should get rid now.
I give more of a chance that a random caretaker could win the FA Cup then I do to ETH.
I give more of a chance that a random caretaker could win the FA Cup then I do to ETH.
Stylistically or due to being injury prone I'd agree but I still think there a lot of good players in this squad that would look better under a good manager and a proper structure.
It's the club fault for letting a manager dictate our transfer policy and spunk it all up the wall. If you want an individuals name I'd cite John Murtough for allowing Ten Hag to do his job for him.
Yes clearly Ten Hag has very sketchy taste in players but he shouldn't have been allowed this control in the first place. He was working under a stable recruitment structure at Ajax so there was nothing to suggest he would be great at it, and handing him hundreds of millions to spend was insane.
I think he's a good manager that has been swallowed up and spat out by this club and this squad, like so many others. But now he's in a defensive, reactive mode where he seems to be doubling down on players and tactics that have failed him consistently. I doubt he knows who he can trust among the squad, and those he does let him down endlessly.
Genuinely think we will end up 8th/9th the way he has us playing, and other sides below us finding a bit of form.
He's equally letting the players down by setting the team up to fail.
Team's a laughing stock now
I don't get this argument, a good chunk of this squad is his, Antony, Hojlund, Mount, Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, Onana, Amrabat, Evans and Malacia.
Are they all bottlers? Or has his transfer business been a bit hit and miss, like most other managers?
He clearly has a talent with younger players, Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund for example have all progressed very well under his guidance and I think most of the caf would agree they need to stay.
But the problems through the squad I think reflect only really on EtH and his seeming inablity to motivate them.
Personally I would sell/let leave on a free Martial, Greenwood, DvB and Sancho obviously to help with FFP. I'd also sell on Cas, Varane and Eriksen.
Controversially I'd keep Rashford as there's a great player in there and McT as he is a versatile squad player and possibly look to replace Bruno with someone who is ab it more careful with the ball.
I'd rather be out of Europe for a year than have Thursday nights feck up our league form.
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