Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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RuudTom83 said:
Yeah I can’t disagree…but post SAF no manager has gotten the squad (multiple squads) to give a shit beyond a 12-18 month spell.

It’s a sodding mystery to me.
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It is easy. No leadership in the squad. Where is your Keane, Cantona or Irwin who are determined, ambitious and vocal? Our team is a bunch of spoilt losers
 
Escobar said:
It is easy. No leadership in the squad. Where is your Keane, Cantona or Irwin who are determined, ambitious and vocal? Our team is a bunch of spoilt losers
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I don’t think they are particularly spoilt, but yes, they are losers. There’s not many player you can count on to give 100% every time they step on to the pitch. As Keane said, you have to earn the right to play football, our players nowadays turn up to half the games expecting to not compete physically and still win by virtue of playing for Utd, then go into paralytic shock when the other team have different ideas.
 
DSG said:
Despite his tutelage? We’ll only know once he’s gone. I will give ETH credit for having identified them and made them 1st team regulars.
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Poor argument to make because why can we then blame him for players playing poorly but not praise him for players playing well?

But glad you’re a bit more balanced on this issue.
 
Malons said:
I worry he can't read the game. None of his subs seem to be in response to anything that happens on the pitch. Everything seems to be what's pre- planned. Of course there'll be players for fitness reasons you're going to have a pre- plan to give them game time. But he only ever seems to make this type of substitution or when there's been an injury

It's never "hasn't worked out for X, so Y is coming on". It's almost as if how players are actually performing on the field has absolutely no influence over what changes are made. That's worrying for me.
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Yeah, definitely seems like that now you point it out.

BenitoSTARR said:
Give him start of next season. Give him another 4/5 players (and at least one fit LB)

Last night was absolutely awful.
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4/5 new players? Wtf? Well after a few more windows and another 12/15 new players we should see some progress :wenger: I hope to god you're being sarcastic!

pcaming said:
He probably is genuinely waiting on the rest of the executives to be put in place, and there's likely a CL clause in Eric's contract which would lessen the burden.

Sadly, there's no benefit of sacking him now. We aren't in threat of relegation, so might as well suffer through.
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But there is obviously a benefit, he will be gone so that's one step in the right direction and we can move forward without the bad smell hanging around.

Suv666 said:
Yea its fecking weird every time when I think the team is looking good and ready to take the next step everything unravels.
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That's probably due to the Glazers only trying to get champions league and then not building on it.
 
spwd said:
4/5 new players? Wtf? Well after a few more windows and another 12/15 new players we should see some progress :wenger: I hope to god you're being sarcastic!
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4/5 proper signings that are suited to high pressing transition football would be transformative.

CB x2
DM
LB
ST

Would be huge.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
The players are bad because they are being managed terribly and expected to play a way they simply cant play
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Id argue a compromise has been made so that the defense can do what they are comfortable with (blocks) and the attack is able to learn what will be longer term beneficial (pressing)
 
I so want to back him, but he makes it unbelievably hard.
IF something isn't working, just for God's sake try something different.

Do you want to keep your job? It's a bigger risk NOT to change this dysfunctional team selection and tactics than keeping with it.

Just for once, try benching players that stinks week in and week out, it can't be that hard!
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Poor argument to make because why can we then blame him for players playing poorly but not praise him for players playing well?

But glad you’re a bit more balanced on this issue.
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I have praised ETH when he has delivered. I praised him last season for the revival of Rashford, the League Cup win and the 3rd place finish. I was genuinely excited for this season.

Very few things in life are black and white. Our poor performances and results this season are partially the fault of the players for sure. They absolutely have to have some accountability for the results. But Ten Hag also deserves a lot of blame. A lot. Most people, fans, pundits, ex-players can see that he is trying to install a tactical philosophy that is either inherently stupid or so difficult to execute that it is impossible to get results in the PL and CL.
 
DSG said:
I have praised ETH when he has delivered. I praised him last season for the revival of Rashford, the League Cup win and the 3rd place finish. I was genuinely excited for this season.

Very few things in life are black and white. Our poor performances and results this season are partially the fault of the players for sure. They absolutely have to have some accountability for the results. But Ten Hag also deserves a lot of blame. A lot. Most people, fans, pundits, ex-players can see that he is trying to install a tactical philosophy that is either inherently stupid or so difficult to execute that it is impossible to get results in the PL and CL.
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I agree he absolutely deserves to shoulder some of the blame. No question there.

But let’s say we had Shaw and Martinez or players with similar profiles fit and available all season. Do you think we still play this way?
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I don’t think they are particularly spoilt, but yes, they are losers. There’s not many player you can count on to give 100% every time they step on to the pitch. As Keane said, you have to earn the right to play football, our players nowadays turn up to half the games expecting to not compete physically and still win by virtue of playing for Utd, then go into paralytic shock when the other team have different ideas.
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They are incredible spoilt. Millionaires before they can drive a car legally
 
BenitoSTARR said:
4/5 proper signings that are suited to high pressing transition football would be transformative.

CB x2
DM
LB
ST

Would be huge.
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Yes!

Let’s do this! Ten Hag will deliver results! All we need to do is buy:

CBs (2): Ruben Dias and Kim min Jae should do the trick!
DM: Declan Rice, Rodri or perhaps Tchouchemeni.
LB: Alphonso Davies would be a good addition
ST: There’s a fella at a scrappy club in Paris, PSG it’s called I think. Mbappe is his name, the striker, and he’s out of contract in June. Dumpster diving, but he’d be a decent backup to Hojlund.

500m, tops.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I agree he absolutely deserves to shoulder some of the blame. No question there.

But let’s say we had Shaw and Martinez or players with similar profiles fit and available all season. Do you think we still play this way?
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This is my biggest issue. An excellent manager would adjust and make the most out of what is available and I don't think he can do this.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I agree he absolutely deserves to shoulder some of the blame. No question there.

But let’s say we had Shaw and Martinez or players with similar profiles fit and available all season. Do you think we still play this way?
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Yes, because we have done when available. And that's the problem, not that we'd be better with better players available (which is just obvious for any team)
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I agree he absolutely deserves to shoulder some of the blame. No question there.

But let’s say we had Shaw and Martinez or players with similar profiles fit and available all season. Do you think we still play this way?
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Yes. Because he has installed a system with one DM, playing a low block with a very weak/non-committed high press. These three do not go together. I could buy the finest mayonnaise, gourmet pickles and and freshly ground, all natural peanut butter. But if I put it all together, it would still taste like shit.

There will always be injuries. It’s football. If he can only get results when all of his first choice are fit and available, there’s no point in keeping him on as manager.
 
DSG said:
Yes!

Let’s do this! Ten Hag will deliver results! All we need to do is buy:

CBs (2): Ruben Dias and Kim min Jae should do the trick!
DM: Declan Rice, Rodri or perhaps Tchouchemeni.
LB: Alphonso Davies would be a good addition
ST: There’s a fella at a scrappy club in Paris, PSG it’s called I think. Mbappe is his name, the striker, and he’s out of contract in June. Dumpster diving, but he’d be a decent backup to Hojlund.

500m, tops.
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Exactly :lol:
 
DSG said:
Yes!

Let’s do this! Ten Hag will deliver results! All we need to do is buy:

CBs (2): Ruben Dias and Kim min Jae should do the trick!
DM: Declan Rice, Rodri or perhaps Tchouchemeni.
LB: Alphonso Davies would be a good addition
ST: There’s a fella at a scrappy club in Paris, PSG it’s called I think. Mbappe is his name, the striker, and he’s out of contract in June. Dumpster diving, but he’d be a decent backup to Hojlund.

500m, tops.
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The irony here is that Kim and Rice were players we were linked with before their big moves that would be perfect.

You just look stupid making this post though. You know we can get similar players in terms of physical and technical profiles.
hobbers said:
A lot of them are bad because they are bad.

They're even worse because ETH is very bad at his job.
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Na well just agree to disagree.
The Cat said:
This is my biggest issue. An excellent manager would adjust and make the most out of what is available and I don't think he can do this.
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What would they do then?
Leftback99 said:
Yes, because we have done when available. And that's the problem, not that we'd be better with better players available (which is just obvious for any team)
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When have they been available to make this judgement?
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
If I trusted them not go for Potter or Southgate then I'd get on board the Ten Hag out train, but I don't.
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People said Ratcliffe was just another Glazer, wanted the money or to greenwash his image etc, so far it looks like they're wrong and he means business. Basically there's no way he'll sabotage the good work he's done in building trust from the fans by appointing somebody like Southgate. He might as well have not bothered, and I'm sure he's well aware of that. I'd like to believe that he'd turn down the idea even if Ashworth etc put it forward, which I don't think they will.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
4/5 proper signings that are suited to high pressing transition football would be transformative.

CB x2
DM
LB
ST

Would be huge.
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And a new Bruno. And a new Rashford. But Bruno lacking most of what a midfielder supposed to do but also his complete lack of captain traits is what is doing us and Ten Hag in.

He is all that creating chances but please replay the match and see how Bruno time and again messes up a defensive action. The defenders clear, pass on to Bruno and he supposed to either hold and go forward, or give the right pass to the right guy. And every time he just fails miserably. It doesn't help *** Rashford also really has no idea what to do other than a counter attack run, but when he just needs to be available as an option he just goes AWOL.

I believe in Ten Hag and Brentford is a decent team, and I also think that from a result perspective we got the draw and even went ahead the reality is we should have been killed with 3 or 4 Brentford goals. Even with Lissandro if we don't have an attacking midfielder that knows and leads his team... what purpose is there?
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Do you mean the 3 games we won?
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Ha how did I know that shifted goalpost was coming. You're talking about how we play not the result.

Like if Brentford didn't equalise last night you'd call it a good performance on your basis.
 
DSG said:
Yes. Because he has installed a system with one DM, playing a low block with a very weak/non-committed high press. These three do not go together. I could buy the finest mayonnaise, gourmet pickles and and freshly ground, all natural peanut butter. But if I put it all together, it would still taste like shit.

There will always be injuries. It’s football. If he can only get results when all of his first choice are fit and available, there’s no point in keeping him on as manager.
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I disagree that this is what we’ve been doing through choice though. We’ve ended up having to make significant compromises to what the team can do.
Leftback99 said:
It would, and a better manager would multiply the effect. Get both.
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The players would. The manager is very much up for debate. Which manager do you think without these players and in identical circumstances to this season (no LB and without a clear CB pairing all season, with significant injury and disruption to midfield) would do better?
 
The Cat said:
Not consistently serving up shite like last night hopefully.

We were yet again playing a club at the bottom end of the table and looked easily second best. He's got no answers.
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Yet we played Liverpool and played better than them?
 
Leftback99 said:
Ha how did I know that shifted goalpost was coming. You're talking about how we play not the result.

Like if Brentford didn't equalise last night you'd call it a good performance on your basis.
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Ok so let’s ignore the results then (but we did win…)

How exactly did we play in those games and how do you know?

How long do you think it takes to get a side to play higher up the pitch and cohesive as a unit if they’ve not played together all season and 2 of the key players are coming back from serious injury.

And no last night was awful. I’ve not once said otherwise and you can see my post match reaction in my post history to see I’ve never argued anything else.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
The players would. The manager is very much up for debate. Which manager do you think without these players and in identical circumstances to this season (no LB and without a clear CB pairing all season, with significant injury and disruption to midfield) would do better?
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Most of the PL. Same as the ones that have outplayed us with inferior sides like last night.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Ok so let’s ignore the results then (but we did win…)

How exactly did we play in those games and how do you know?

How long do you think it takes to get a side to play higher up the pitch and cohesive as a unit if they’ve not played together all season and 2 of the key players are coming back from serious injury.

And no last night was awful. I’ve not once said otherwise and you can see my post match reaction in my post history to see I’ve never argued anything else.
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They had all pre season and it's been the same since matchday 1.

Results have been very fortunate for how we've played all season. Don't let them fool you.
 
Leftback99 said:
Most of the PL. Same as the ones that have outplayed us with inferior sides like last night.
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So you are of the opinion most (so more than 10? Managers currently in the PL) would have us higher than 6th and would have done a better overall job than Ten Hag has so far?

Please name these 10.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
The irony here is that Kim and Rice were players we were linked with before their big moves that would be perfect.

You just look stupid making this post though. You know we can get similar players in terms of physical and technical profiles.

Na well just agree to disagree.

What would they do then?

When have they been available to make this judgement?
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The key point is not the players themselves. It’s the fact that your premise is “we just need 5 more players”. There really isn’t much evidence that Ten Hag can deliver results with 5 more players. He’s already brought in 11 and we’re worse than we were last season.
 
DSG said:
The key point is not the players themselves. It’s the fact that your premise is “we just need 5 more players”. There really isn’t much evidence that Ten Hag can deliver results with 5 more players. He’s already brought in 11 and we’re worse than we were last season.
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Who are these 11 players?

We do need a better squad. Do you not think this season has highlighted the lack of physical and technical profiles in defence and midfield in particular?
 
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