Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Speako said:
They seem to be making it fairly clear, that they want a Head Coach in place leading the team, rather than a Manager in the mould of SAF who had control over a number of facets. ETH struck me as someone who was almost demanding a high level of autonomy at United prior to taking the role. It'll be interesting to see if he now changes that stance to remain in situe.
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Could very well be wrong but I'd imagine that ETH was demanding a high level of autonomy because of the utter bin fire of a club (in terms of structure) that the was taking over.

LVG essentially told him not to take the job and I don't doubt there would have been others saying the same to him. He probably felt the only way to give himself a chance of succeeding was to try and get as much control as possible.

I would imagine that he will be willing to defer to the new structure on the premise that it's going to be properly done, which on the face of it seems to be the case so far.
 
Speako said:
They seem to be making it fairly clear, that they want a Head Coach in place leading the team, rather than a Manager in the mould of SAF who had control over a number of facets. ETH struck me as someone who was almost demanding a high level of autonomy at United prior to taking the role. It'll be interesting to see if he now changes that stance to remain in situe.
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I think we may as well roll the dice with him in full control for another season. Have him have full, complete control of transfers (and keep his veto), ask him to give us a list of targets and have Ashworth and the others work on getting them which they may do a better job at than the previous regime. Otherwise we won't know how good he is without having the players he genuinely wants, rather than players picked by someone else which may not necessarily be aligned with his philosophy.

If things don't work out, then take him off transfer duties in Summer 2025 and have our front office manage that part of the job while he continues as a head coach only.
 
Sarni said:
I think we may as well roll the dice with him in full control for another season. Have him have full, complete control of transfers (and keep his veto), ask him to give us a list of targets and have Ashworth and the others work on getting them which they may do a better job at than the previous regime. Otherwise we won't know how good he is without having the players he genuinely wants, rather than players picked by someone else which may not necessarily be aligned with his philosophy.

If things don't work out, then take him off transfer duties in Summer 2025 and have our front office manage that part of the job while he continues as a head coach only.
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Well it wasn't funny when you started initially now it's just sad .
 
gajender said:
Well it wasn't funny when you started initially now it's just sad .
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His transfers have not even been that horrible. Onana has sorted himself out and is one of the best goalkeepers in the league, Martinez has been good all along, Hojlund has shown true talent. It is really only Antony that has been truly bad, and Mount who we cannot really assess due to how little he's played. Casemiro was a panic signing and probably as much of a club signing as his, and Malacia was a cheap punt that hasn't even been that bad.

He is limited in his knowledge of the market and pretty much tries to go for players he knows most of the time, but he's used to working with them and maybe it's better than just feeding him several players he's not familiar with.
 
VP89 said:
I don't think there is a manager available who would be surely better than him.

If I were forced to look at options I like Nagelsmann and Amorim is interesting, but I favour neither of them over who we currently have.
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Why wouldn't you favour either of those,personally I hope Alonso goes to scousers because don't want them getting Nagelsmann. Least if he goes to Barca there is a chance of him still managing us one day.
 
Speako said:
They seem to be making it fairly clear, that they want a Head Coach in place leading the team, rather than a Manager in the mould of SAF who had control over a number of facets. ETH struck me as someone who was almost demanding a high level of autonomy at United prior to taking the role. It'll be interesting to see if he now changes that stance to remain in situe.
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To be fair, I think any manager would’ve demanded autonomy considering how famously incompetent the management has been since SAF retired. You would think he would be more comfortable letting go of that with the team we are putting together.
 
UnsungHero said:
Yeah, why would the person in charge of running the entire club be involved in appointing the most important figure at the club...
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Being involved and choosing are very different things. No one is saying he won’t be involved. Richard Arnold was the previous CEO, would you want him choosing the manager directly?
 
Dan_F said:
Being involved and choosing are very different things. No one is saying he won’t be involved. Richard Arnold was the previous CEO, would you want him choosing the manager directly?
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You keep going back to our old structure as a reference. That was an exception rather than a norm. Omar is hugely experienced in the world of soccer and can't be compared against our current hierarchy
 
Sarni said:
His transfers have not even been that horrible. Onana has sorted himself out and is one of the best goalkeepers in the league, Martinez has been good all along, Hojlund has shown true talent. It is really only Antony that has been truly bad, and Mount who we cannot really assess due to how little he's played. Casemiro was a panic signing and probably as much of a club signing as his, and Malacia was a cheap punt that hasn't even been that bad.

He is limited in his knowledge of the market and pretty much tries to go for players he knows most of the time, but he's used to working with them and maybe it's better than just feeding him several players he's not familiar with.
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I know you have been sarcastically mocking some of the staunchest ETH supporters which few of them genuinely deserved but now it's getting harder to discern when you are being serious or when you just taking piss .

But to get back to the ETH his signings have been just about average and unless he shows real progress on field in terms of style of play with most of his squad back even FA Cup triumph or CL qualification shouldn't be enough to keep him in his job .
 
gajender said:
I know you have been sarcastically mocking some of the staunchest ETH supporters which few of them genuinely deserved but now it's getting harder to discern when you are being serious or when you just taking piss .

But to get back to the ETH his signings have been just about average and unless he shows real progress on field in terms of style of play with most of his squad back even FA Cup triumph or CL qualification shouldn't be enough to keep him in his job .
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Are we talking about football or a sport that involves judges I'm confused now.
 
GlasgowRedz said:
Could very well be wrong but I'd imagine that ETH was demanding a high level of autonomy because of the utter bin fire of a club (in terms of structure) that the was taking over.

LVG essentially told him not to take the job and I don't doubt there would have been others saying the same to him. He probably felt the only way to give himself a chance of succeeding was to try and get as much control as possible.

I would imagine that he will be willing to defer to the new structure on the premise that it's going to be properly done, which on the face of it seems to be the case so far.
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Precisely.
He would love the structure SJR is putting in place.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Are we talking about football or a sport that involves judges I'm confused now.
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Well he needs to show that he can set up the team to play progressive and entertaining football which is sustainable and also scalable with improvement in playing personnel to continue into next season otherwise change is needed .
 
gajender said:
I know you have been sarcastically mocking some of the staunchest ETH supporters which few of them genuinely deserved but now it's getting harder to discern when you are being serious or when you just taking piss .

But to get back to the ETH his signings have been just about average and unless he shows real progress on field in terms of style of play with most of his squad back even FA Cup triumph or CL qualification shouldn't be enough to keep him in his job .
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I still don't think he'll win major trophies with us but I'm not really being sarcastic here. I want him to have a proper go next season, full control like he wanted, a competent board just getting players he wants them to sign and see where it leads. Otherwise it's just going to be another write off season after which we won't be able to judge him because maybe the players we got him do not suit his style, or do not have the character necessary to succeed in his team, and then we need another season to assess him etc... just get him what he needs / he thinks he needs, with competent structure in place, and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then it's Ashworth and co. signing players from then on and ETH just coaching them.
 
croadyman said:
Why wouldn't you favour either of those,personally I hope Alonso goes to scousers because don't want them getting Nagelsmann. Least if he goes to Barca there is a chance of him still managing us one day.
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I see neither as being any more credible than Ten Hag
 
Sarni said:
I still don't think he'll win major trophies with us but I'm not really being sarcastic here. I want him to have a proper go next season, full control like he wanted, a competent board just getting players he wants them to sign and see where it leads. Otherwise it's just going to be another write off season after which we won't be able to judge him because maybe the players we got him do not suit his style, or do not have the character necessary to succeed in his team, and then we need another season to assess him etc... just get him what he needs / he thinks he needs, with competent structure in place, and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then it's Ashworth and co. signing players from then on and ETH just coaching them.
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Not sure I understand you. 'Full control like he wanted', well he had near full control of transfers and its overall been woeful. Under the new model he absolutely wont have full control, he will be the coach with limited input to transfers. Your last bit is right, it will be Ashworth and co but from the outset. You understand that's the whole point of the new structure?
 
DRJosh said:
Agreed. I actually think the future looks bright for us looking at the youth talent we have. Mainoo has been a revelation and I think in many ways he has set the modern day Post- Sir Alex standard on youth quality.
Good times are coming!
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He is the manager for me at has shown the most confidence in the young players and even in purchases like Hojlund. I genuinely believe we can have up to 10 players from the academy in the squad in the next 5 years or less. The talent there just need opportunities and stability. I too believe! Haha
 
Gordon's Hill said:
Not sure I understand you. 'Full control like he wanted', well he had near full control of transfers and its overall been woeful. Under the new model he absolutely wont have full control, he will be the coach with limited input to transfers. Your last bit is right, it will be Ashworth and co but from the outset. You understand that's the whole point of the new structure?
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Woeful ? Except Antony which of his signings has been woeful ?
 
bond19821982 said:
Woeful ? Except Antony which of his signings has been woeful ?
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They've been mostly nepotism hires from his time at Ajax. I rate Martinez, but over all I don't think it would be in the least bit controversial to say most of his transfers have yet to deliver anything substantial for a variety of reasons including not only injuries, but mediocre performances as well.
 
VP89 said:
I see neither as being any more credible than Ten Hag
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Nagelsmann has a Bundesliga title and 57% win rate with Leipzig.
Alonso 67% win rate and probably a league title with Leverkusen.

Both are bigger achievements than 4 Eredivisies.
 
Laurencio said:
With all the changes to management it was never likely that Ten Hag would be sacked before the end of the season anyway. I think the big question facing them this summer is whether or not they believe in Ten Hag enough to extend his contract. Either they extend his contract or they sack him IMO. Maybe they are waiting to see how he does with top 4 and the FA Cup, and whomever else is available. They might not have any plans to sack him, but they need to decide whether or not to extend his contract.

Given the situation it is basically untenable for him to manage an entire season with no deal in place and a contract that expires in the summer of 2025. He'll be fielding questions about the club's confidence in him weekly with no extension, and that is just detrimental to the team, recruitment and stability of the club. That's a nightmare situation for everyone involved. INEOS creates a situation of chaos at the start of their rebuild, Ashworth's decision making is questioned and Ten Hag is basically fighting for his job weekly. They might not have any plans to sack him, but I doubt they have any plans to extend his contract.

So the real question is; will Berrada and Ashworth want to give Ten Hag a new contract on the back of this season?
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Yeah pretty much, the Interim CEO didn't want to sack the manager and by the time Ineos got control the season was pretty much a write off anyway. And yeah good point they can't allow him to go into next season with his contract running out as it would create a lot of uncertainty and drama. In an ideal world they might be willing to give him another season but as you say they won't want to give a contract extension to a manager that's underperfromed and that they might not 100% believe in.
 
DJ_21 said:
I find it disrespectful how we’re being linked with every manager even though ETH job is secure at the minute. The same happened with LVG before the fa cup final. Why not focus on Liverpool, Barca and Bayern who you actually know need new managers.
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Because A, United generate more clicks than any team on the planet and B, with everything that has happened on and off the pitch at United this season Ten Hag's job is far from secure.
 
He has to get one more season at this point unless the team nosedives again before the end of the season. A probable final (with all due respect to Coventry) and hopefully we can push hard until the very end for top 4, we won’t make it now but with all the injuries Sancho Antony and Greewood and then Rashford not getting going at all. I think he deserves a chance to show whether he can actually make it click or not. A lot of these players will know they are on the way out if they don’t turn it around asap. It’s an interesting situation
 
hobbers said:
Nagelsmann has a Bundesliga title and 57% win rate with Leipzig.
Alonso 67% win rate and probably a league title with Leverkusen.

Both are bigger achievements than 4 Eredivisies.
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No, it isn't. And I am not talking about Alonso.
 
hobbers said:
Nagelsmann has a Bundesliga title and 57% win rate with Leipzig.
Alonso 67% win rate and probably a league title with Leverkusen.

Both are bigger achievements than 4 Eredivisies.
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Can I ask why? I know the bundesliga is perceived as ‘stronger’ than the Dutch league but surely 4 titles shows consistency? Especially considering the title Nagelsman won was with the biggest team similar to Ten Hag. Alonso winning is impressive but we’ve seen one off situations before.

Just trying to get some understanding no criticism intended.
 
I think the biggest thing going for ETH right now is we seemingly haven't got our new football structure in place so I reckon that might be the main reason he will continue
 
Borninthe80ts said:
Can I ask why? I know the bundesliga is perceived as ‘stronger’ than the Dutch league but surely 4 titles shows consistency? Especially considering the title Nagelsman won was with the biggest team similar to Ten Hag. Alonso winning is impressive but we’ve seen one off situations before.

Just trying to get some understanding no criticism intended.
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Because De Boer won 4 Eredivise titles with Ajax and was the worst manager in Prem history. Ergo it's worthless as a barometer for managers. Sort of like winning in Scotland with Celtic.
 
gajender said:
Well he needs to show that he can set up the team to play progressive and entertaining football which is sustainable and also scalable with improvement in playing personnel to continue into next season otherwise change is needed .
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Sustainable, that is the key issue. The injuries have been making that difficult as well as squad deficiencies. More time is needed to get to that consistent performance we are all craving.
 
hobbers said:
Because De Boer won 4 Eredivise titles with Ajax and was the worst manager in Prem history. Ergo it's worthless as a barometer for managers. Sort of like winning in Scotland with Celtic.
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I'm not sure you can say this and then say Nagelsmann is better for a win % with RBL who are one of the richer teams. Add that he never actually did better than Hasenhuttl in the league despite heavy spending and a better team and it does create some question marks there. Then it's hard to read into his time with Bayern, every coach who goes there will have a high win %. Alonso will have done something impressive though to break the monopoly, especially as Bayern are actually having a pretty good season.

The issue with all the Ajax managers is the style of football there (broadly speaking if we're talking Michels total football) isn't one you can really implement without insanely high spending and massive transfer windows. In hindsight, Palace, a mid table and hardly wealthy PL club, hiring him to succeed Allardyce is about as visionary as us hiring Mou to follow LVG. It was always going to be a disaster.
 
Raoul said:
They've been mostly nepotism hires from his time at Ajax. I rate Martinez, but over all I don't think it would be in the least bit controversial to say most of his transfers have yet to deliver anything substantial for a variety of reasons including not only injuries, but mediocre performances as well.
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Martinez when fit has been great. Don't know if Hojlund is his or club’s but he has had a good season so far. Huge potential too.
Casemiro and Eriksen is 100% on club . Malacia for 12m is an able backup to Shaw.

Yes- Antony and Amrabat has been terrible but other than that I don't see any major issues. He shopped from a place he know very well. Amrabat is on loan luckily.
 
Zen86 said:
To be fair, I think any manager would’ve demanded autonomy considering how famously incompetent the management has been since SAF retired. You would think he would be more comfortable letting go of that with the team we are putting together.
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Absolutely fair points, and ultimately what I also think will happen.

He must understand that he needs guidance on transfer strategy, in particular, if we are to compete again at the top table.
 
To be fair, Bayern have been looking really bad the last 2 seasons.

Alonso winning the league is impressive, but its as much down to Bayern looking uncharacterstically bad the last 2 seasons.

Could just as easily be like Ranieri winning the EPL with Leicester, where at the time the big guns had an off season.
 
My apologies if this has already been sorted, but what were his powers at Ajax? It seems like they have quite a solid structure in place, perhaps the best in Europe, for identifying and bringing players through.
 
Speako said:
Absolutely fair points, and ultimately what I also think will happen.

He must understand that he needs guidance on transfer strategy, in particular, if we are to compete again at the top table.
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ETH already has agreed to whatever terms INEOs have said is gonna happen, hes either agreed or hes leaving end of season. People dont need to concern themselves with "will ETH agree", from what i heard he worked well in a structure at Ajax which was closer to what INEOs will be doing.

I think, like others have said, he was warned off United and he made it a term of his employment because of the relative amateur setup at United.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
To be fair, Bayern have been looking really bad the last 2 seasons.

Alonso winning the league is impressive, but its as much down to Bayern looking uncharacterstically bad the last 2 seasons.

Could just as easily be like Ranieri winning the EPL with Leicester, where at the time the big guns had an off season.
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Well that's just wrong. Totally wrong. Alonso's Leverkusen is playing close to the best ever BL season and might even break that record. That's pure strength on their behalf. He already got the record for most unbeaten competitive matches in a row for a Bundesliga team. He isn't just on track to win a title, he is breaking all time records.

Bayern is playing a season that would win them the league in any other year against any other opposition (or at least keep them closely in the mix at this point).

They were a lot weaker last season and had Dortmund won that title you would be right about your comparison, but they are clearly improved in getting results compared to last season.
 
Yeah, think we're downplaying Xabi's season a bit. He's been brilliant tactically. Reminds me a lot of Rafa, for both the right and wrong reasons.
 
hobbers said:
Because De Boer won 4 Eredivise titles with Ajax and was the worst manager in Prem history. Ergo it's worthless as a barometer for managers. Sort of like winning in Scotland with Celtic.
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See this is where I see things differently. Just because De Boer was poor at Crystal Palace doesn’t devalue the previous achievement. Di Matteo won the champions league, doesn’t mean it should be an any less.

Ajax had not won in 4 seasons before Ten won 3 in a row. It was actually easier for Nageslman to win his respective league. Also I don’t believe a poorer standard league doesn’t mean good players, managers can’t come from there.
By the logic of doing well in the bundesliga being greater then actual title wins then Terzic, Favre and also Rose should be better options than keeping the current manager.
 
Borninthe80ts said:
See this is where I see things differently. Just because De Boer was poor at Crystal Palace doesn’t devalue the previous achievement. Di Matteo won the champions league, doesn’t mean it should be an any less.

Ajax had not won in 4 seasons before Ten won 3 in a row. It was actually easier for Nageslman to win his respective league. Also I don’t believe a poorer standard league doesn’t mean good players, managers can’t come from there.
By the logic of doing well in the bundesliga being greater then actual title wins then Terzic, Favre and also Rose should be better options than keeping the current manager.
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Favre would be, but he is more or less retired I think, surely in so far as he wouldn't want that stressful job at United.
Terzic is just so so bad, basically their Ole, only got the job for emotional reasons, not for skills.
Rose is an interesting call... he won stuff with Leipzig and regularly looked good against big teams (although he sometimes also saw his teams getting smashed to pieces). I don't think there is much difference in level between him and EtH.
 
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