Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Indeed!
Yeah let’s allow him to waste another £200m. He’s not United level as a manager and no amount of whatabouterry on here will change that. Ineos are looking at world class in all levels ETH is not. Same as these nonsense links to Southgate sell rags yet some on here lap it up. Our new CEO will ultimately answer to SJR who has clearly stated its success on the pitch that matters to him. To achieve this we need a top Manager not a mid level EPL at best manager. For all the ETH lovers name one absolutely top level club who would take him on?
He’s trolling you mate. He’s ETH out like the most of us.
I have moved on from being firmly ETH out to accepting that it's not going to happen anytime soon and just merely hoping he can prove to be a good coach.
No big club would currently take him but he's already here and we may as well get the best out of him because he isn't going anywhere.
I don't think they'll go into next season with him on his current contract as it will just cause more drama. INEOS will sack this summer or he'll have a new 3 year deal. I know which would be the biggest 'neck on the line' decision for them. They're going to have to be very sure he's the right man if they continue beyond this season, as they will come in for a lot of flack if they give him another contract and he inevitably isn't up to the task.
I think folk who want ETH out are more vocal, not necessarily a reflection of the majority of the fanbase. Since they complain a lot , they are convinced they represent the majority.
I’d say the majority are probably unsure either way and not arsed arguing about it.
True but if the managers take responsibility for identifying targets then they have to take part of the responsibillity when they don't work out.
We've tried to carry on with how things were run under SAF, but none of the 5 managers we've had could ever dream of being that good to be a manager, coach and DOF all rolled into one.
He’ll get another decent job after here. Somewhere like Dortmund would probably suit him. He was linked with Bayern the other day as one of the potential clubs that could want him if he leaves us.
Fellaini was one of Moyes top targets, behave.
That's life though isn't it? You draw up a list of targets and for whatever reason they don't pan out so you move down the list. In Van Gaal's first season we didn't even have european football to offer never mind CL football so it makes sense that we couldn't attact some players.
The managers we've had have failed irrespective of the fact the club has also been poorly run. The club has been poorly run and of course that wouldn't have helped any manager. I hope that the club being poorly run will end with Ineos, the signs are promising. Once we have a proper football structure in place then we won't be primarily relying on the managers identifying targets like we were under Moyes, Van Gaal, Ten Hag etc.
I would have thought the idea was to win the title within 3-5 years of hiring Ten Hag (or any manager). I don't think Ineos will be wanting the club to wait 7 years for a title win.
@Plant0x84
Really? Mathematically, there are very very few great managers, and even fewer all-time great managers. What’s the list of current active great managers? Klopp, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Simeone and maybe Luis Enrique. Mourinho and Zidane as well, but they aren’t active. That’s it. Very good managers, based on achievements, Tuchel, Allegri, Arteta, Conte, Alonso (although he hasn’t won anything yet). Then you are into merely good managers like Pochettino, Pioli, Spalleti, Emery, all have won more at higher levels, more often, both league and Champions League than Erik Ten Hag.
Then there is the eye test…. Not only can we see it, but the pundits, ex-players, rival managers all see it too. What ETH is asking of his players is impractical at this level.
Finally, there are the statistics. GF, GA, GD, xG, xGA, xGD, possession, shots against, all pretty fecking damning.
what more do you fecking want? He is probably just a mediocre manager. Rafa fecking Benitez has done more than he has, much much more, much earlier, and in more difficult circumstances than Erik Ten Hag. They are 9 years apart.
So tell me there, Sparky, what evidence do you have that Erik Ten Hag is a “great” manager.
Fellaini was signed 51 minutes before very end of the transfer window for 25% more then he would of cost at the end of July. Doesnt sound like a top target.
I think some of you think that because a manager worked with a player previously and then they are signed, it means they are "a top target". It can just as easily mean, the club has no decent alternatives lined up and/or has f**ked up the transfer window to the point where they have to sign these players usually for way more then they would of cost earlier in the transfer window (sounds familiar).
CL is not a defining factor in signing top stars, thats bollox. We signed Zlatan, Di Maria and Pogba when we werent in CL (probably others).
Managers have failed relative to the expectations, but its not a seperate thing from the club issues. You cant say its "irrespective of the fact the club was run", it doesnt work like that. If you work in poor environments and fail in that environment, it doesnt mean you are necessarily a failure. How to objectively assess the conditions played in your failure is not easy, but its not an absolute fail. In football , I guess theres not much interest in delving too deep below "look at that result/performance/XG/possession" so I do understand why some of you dont get it.
Oh for sure. But who is responsible is less important than how do we fix this. And fixing involves a structure. Even SAF wouldn't be able to do what he used to do.
Unless we’re going to give a new manager a solid 3 years support, just keep ten Hag for a year.
Get the structure above him right, give him a few signings that fit the profile of the new club direction. Even if he’s not ‘The Guy’, let him advance the team for another 12 months with a refreshed group of younger players.
Onana, Dalot, Martinez, Shaw, Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho & Hojland are a strong enough base 8 for a good team. Fix the squad around that.
Having a new manager arrive under pressure from day one is mad UNLESS you get a manager that is allowed to finish 5th next year and survive. If we don’t back EtH or allow the next manager to be bang average for his initial season, it’s the same damn cycle.
Get the structure above him right, give him a few signings that fit the profile of the new club direction. Even if he’s not ‘The Guy’, let him advance the team for another 12 months with a refreshed group of younger players.
Onana, Dalot, Martinez, Shaw, Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho & Hojland are a strong enough base 8 for a good team. Fix the squad around that.
Having a new manager arrive under pressure from day one is mad UNLESS you get a manager that is allowed to finish 5th next year and survive. If we don’t back EtH or allow the next manager to be bang average for his initial season, it’s the same damn cycle.
Is it really? Elite level players shouldn’t be expected to run? They aren’t cable of playing a press? They are too stupid to understand playing a high defensive line? Doesn’t sound very elite. Other teams in the PL manage these things.
Hell, even we can do it in fits and starts. We look a very good team when we do.The first 30 mins against Liverpool was superb for example. It’s the consistency of performance we lack. What would you have him do? Go back to a kick and rush counter attacking style so it’s simple to understand? One man’s pragmatism is another man’s regression.
I wasn’t even commenting specifically on anyone or anything. Just a general throw away line taking the piss, but the flaw in this whole debate is the events of the season aren’t being taken into account. No leeway for Onana settling into a new team and country. No benefit of the doubt for all the injuries. No concern for the off field distractions. To the outers these are just excuses. I thinks he’s doing okay given the circumstances and deserves next season with proper support before we decide whether to stick or twist.
Alonso,Nagelsmann and Inzaghi but the first one isn't realistic so would go with Amorim
My faith in ETH is so low, that even after a monumental victory against the bin dippers, I'm half expecting us to go to Brentford and struggle.
I still have doubts whether Alonso could be successful in the prem. I guess we’ll find out if he chooses Liverpool in the summer. I think he might go with the easy option and choose Bayern though.
For all the criticism he gets he’s developed players this season like no other manager has. Dalot plays like a 7+ every game, garnacho is developing very well, Mainoo has broke into the first team and his performances are stronger every match. Onana after a struggling start is becoming more solid. Hojlund after starting slow scored in like 7 games in a row and his doing better than last season at Atalanta. AWB is now comfortable at playing both RB and LB. Mctominay has turned into a goalscorer after we wanted to sell him last season. Takes a lot of doing that from ETH. Have faith.
Not sure how or why this is relevant to what I asked, i don't see anywhere in my post mentioning EtH as some great manager.
EtH is a decent to good manager and it's not working out for him this season. Last season he did very well.
The fact that you put Poch there and in 2024 calling Jose as great manager says it all.
The way I see it, if we were to keep a manager who finishes 5th just because he’s made the Champions League it would be a concerning indicator of the direction INEOS are taking us in, particularly when it comes with terrible performances and results.
I cant see how that’s any different to what we would have done under the Glazers and there will inevitably be fans (possibly correctly) claiming INEOS are more concerned with securing the UCL money than they are with the actual progression of the club as a whole.
Which is why I can’t see him continuing on, because on the face of it INEOS do seem to take a more holistic approach and given some of SJR’s comments around the takeover, settling for 5th and CL in the manner we would have made it in just doesnt line up.
I cant see how that’s any different to what we would have done under the Glazers and there will inevitably be fans (possibly correctly) claiming INEOS are more concerned with securing the UCL money than they are with the actual progression of the club as a whole.
Which is why I can’t see him continuing on, because on the face of it INEOS do seem to take a more holistic approach and given some of SJR’s comments around the takeover, settling for 5th and CL in the manner we would have made it in just doesnt line up.
This invalidates your entire post for me
We tried to sign him and Baines in a double deal early in the window, that didn't work out because Baines didn't want to leave. Moyes admitted that he didn't want Fellaini to be his first United signing as he didn't want him to carry that pressure, but he did want him that's common knowledge.
It'd have been some fecking coincidence that Ed Woodward for some reason decided to sign Evertons best player right after we hired the Everton manager.
DiMaria didn't want to come to United, Pogba only came for money. It's not bollox at all, no CL football severly limits the players willing to join you.
Of course I can and that's exactly how it works. Moyes, Ole and LVG would have failed even under a proper football structure because they either weren't top managers or were past it. There's strong evidence that Jose was past it as well by the time he joined, the jury's still out on Ten Hag.
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There are lots of very good managers out there, but not many who have the personality to manage a club like MU.
Of those there is probably no one who wants to come here until the club is in better shape.
Erik was told by his colleagues and friends NOT to take this job. We will find out whether they were right.
Of those there is probably no one who wants to come here until the club is in better shape.
Erik was told by his colleagues and friends NOT to take this job. We will find out whether they were right.
I'm ETH out but not ETH out at all costs, we have to replace him with the right manager not just any manager. No to Southgate, Potter and Mourinho.
Another 50m for Brobbey from Ajax ? I'm all in for the wild ride. His transfer has been so shitty that I am convinced he and his agent see us an ATM to get a quick buck off. If he wont relinquish his power over transfer he should go.
Wait…. What? BTW, thanks for ignoring 97% of my post and pulling out one single sentence. I’m guessing the rest you can’t argue with and are not going to address.
A few of possibilities here mate:
1. The players are deliberately not playing the tactics which he has installed, in which case, he’s lost the dressing room and needs to go because you can’t turn over an entire team in one transfer window, and the alternative is 3 transfer windows and 600m, plus 200m in lost revenue because he can’t get into the CL.
2. He has a hard time explaining and implementing his tactics to “elite players” (your words, not mine), and therefore, needs to go because a manager that has a hard time communicating and implementing tactics is not a good manager. It’s basically the lowest bar you need to clear. Context is key… PL vs Eredivise is a massive gulf in quality of the other sides of the league.
3. The players aren’t good enough. Well, see no. 1. 3 transfer windows, 600m and lost revenue. And it’s not like he hasn’t signed off on 400m worth of mostly mediocre players to get us here. No company is going to bleed that much money only to prove or disprove that ETH is a great manager. Would you write off that much if you were the owners of the club? I think not.
4. His tactics are actually mid table tactics and he’s a mediocre manager. And here we are. This is the most likely and literally hundreds of pundits, YouTubers, former players have commented that he has asked too much of the squad that he has. Not only is that stupid, it’s arrogant.
Look, I hope I’m wrong. I hope that ETH is the second coming of SAF. I really do. But at this point, he’s had massive advantages in spend compared to every PL club save two, and every single metric that we measure managers by is pretty dire compared to the standards of the club: table position, stats, CL results, eye test and transfers.
At some point, no matter how much you emotionally believe ETH will win the PL or the CL, the data is showing us that he’s not that guy.
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Really? Jose won the CL with fecking Porto. And Inter. He’s absolutely past his prime and the game has passed him by, but by the metrics, he is an all time great manager. To not put him with the all time greats just shows ignorance. I wouldn’t hire him now, but he was a great, great manager..
I guess I quoted your post to more or less ask you… Do you want a good manager or a great one? Is there a significant difference between good and great? So, good would mostly get you into the Top 4, get you a trophy every year or two, you might challenge for the league into February some years. Or, do you want a manager that is fecking elite, someone who will have you challenging most, if not every year for the league and regularly making the semifinals of the CL, and winning one every five years?
Thank you, I’ll take the latter. And I don’t mind a bit of a revolving door to find him.
Why are you even talking about historical achievements of past it manager when we are talking about current managers.
Was Jose great manager? Yes.
Is he great manager or even good manager who should be discussed? No.
Anyone who thinks EtH is a mediocre manager doesn't know how to rate players and managers, they will just talk in extremes. There are many good managers who didn't work out well at different clubs, EtH had good season and now he is struggling. As simple as that, not sure why people think talking in extremes to make their point is important.
The list, it's like putting Messi and Hazard in same category. Both elite dribblers but world apart in what they achieved and their quality.
It’s clear you have an irrational agenda against the manager clouding your view, thus making conversation around the issue impossible. Have a great day.
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They haven't been that bad, only Antony has really failed.
It is important that we back him to maximum extent, if it means getting players he's familiar with because he is going to feel more comfortable managing them, then so be it. He must get all the support he needs and proper backing from the new structure to succeed, otherwise it will be more excuses and we will never know how good he could be here. If we persist with him but don't bring the players that he requests, then next year we will be back to square one with 'we cannot assess him'.
I am glad fans only pick out bits of what SJR says to suit their agenda. Firstly, he has said he needs to get the structure right, then comes style of play, then players who fit the style.
Firstly, we are approaching April and the structure isn't in place, so initially, its about getting this right. Then they need to decide on the manager, which may be August by the time Barrada and Ashworth come in. So you saying we change manager in August?
Secondly, SJR has also said, in 10 years alot of top managers have come in and its not worked, so he knows even if the manager is important, its crucial to get people above the manager right.
I honestly don’t know what a good manager looks like no more. Winning titles doesn’t seem to mean much and it seems like style of play dictates most perceptions. I’ve lost count of the number of flavours of the months that have come and gone and replaced by the next.
We are definitely in the era of what have you done for me lately and it’s like a manager has a season to implement his plan or it’s bye bye. I miss the times of watching a team grow and mature.
We are definitely in the era of what have you done for me lately and it’s like a manager has a season to implement his plan or it’s bye bye. I miss the times of watching a team grow and mature.
I am glad your reasoning behind my so called agenda is so obviously flawed. If and it’s a huge if. I have an agenda its that I wish to see a decent United Team playing good to watch footy. Is that too much to ask? It certainly seems so under ETH. As for structure in place Barrada and Ashworth both seem too class appointments. Do you honestly think they will risk their reputation by saying ETH is our man? They in my opinion will want a top manager to manage the team. I don’t think ETH is anywhere near good enough. You obviously do one if us will be right.
We don’t need to wait until August come to change manager btw so sorry to bust your Agenda. Great reason to keep ETH that. Both Barrada and Ashworth were approached and put in place for a while now. Yes Newcastle playing will re compensation on Ashworth but that’s not to stop us appointing anyone whether playing or back room in the meantime.
As for saying SJR want success on the pitch this surely is music to all fans ears? So your analogy there is suspect.
You'd have expected the same under every manager post SAF bar a purple patch here and there.
I think actual football professionals look at it with a little more balance and common sense than your average social media fan who first and foremost want to be right. The uncertainty now is mostly due to the fact that since SAF retired we never had any reputable football professionals bar the managers themselves, nor was there ever any desire to hire one as the club was doing its job as a money front.
Then you have people in this thread that would rather downplay what the Glazers have done to this club than admit ETH had to deal with any kind of adversity. Never mind that Ragnik and van Gaal, who have forgotten more football than any of us will ever know, said there needs to be a complete overhaul up top and in the squad for the club to compete for the League/CL.
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