Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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VP89 said:
Head start is the wrong wording, I've amended the post. I should clarify that he was given room for error under context of joining half way and needing to stabilise the team, learning on the job and making his own mistakes - but was broadly still quite poor.

Ultimately he took over a club with better resources and a better squad than to finish 8th back to back, and was capable by year 3 to make top 4. He actually underperformed these benchmarks back to back for 3 years until he got things going in season 4. The "but he's learning on the job" argument doesn't quite cut it there.

I think what is moronic is throwing money spent around when we both know Ten Hag works for clowns that overpay almost every transfer by 30-40%. Moreover, you want to consider Arteta's lack of support and ignore that when Ten Hag joined we had global scouts sacked, no real structure in place to challenge his own suggestions and an academy player's brother brought in as an emergency to negotiate contracts for new signings. This affects transfer windows too. It's a bit weird for you to talk about Ten Hag's backing in absolute sums, and not actually dive into anything about the structure.


You actually haven't debunked anything - you keep hiding behind this "Arteta is allowed because he's learning on the job" without actually considering that the expectation on him was to do better than 8th twice and 5th for his first 3 seasons, even when considering him learning on the job.

You've tried to pretend that Arteta has shown clear progression since he joined year on year which is such frankly, nonsense. How one can say a manager finishing 8th back to back with 4-5 points between the two seasons is "progression" is beyond me. As I said, if Ten Hag finished 8th in season 1 and 6th this year, he'd get sacked quite quickly, despite showing "improvement" by your own logic.
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Oh they’ll shamelessly downplay the damage the Glazers have done to the club they support to just further their argument
 
It feels a bit like people take the development of Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo for granted. In my opinion EtH deserves a lot of credit for that. One year ago, Garnacho reminded me of Rashford, Greenwood or even Martial in certain part of his games. But off the ball, he has made huge progress that those players barely ever made.

He is a great coach for player development. I think he proved that Ajax with young players like Frenkie, de Ligt, Gravenberch and Timber, but also a few older ones like Haller, Tadic and Ziyech.
 
andersj said:
It feels a bit like people take the development of Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo for granted. In my opinion EtH deserves a lot of credit for that. One year ago, Garnacho reminded me of Rashford, Greenwood or even Martial in certain part of his games. But off the ball, he has made huge progress that those players barely ever made.

He is a great coach for player development. I think he proved that Ajax with young players like Frenkie, de Ligt, Gravenberch and Timber, but also a few older ones like Haller, Tadic and Ziyech.
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Not only that but they’ll simultaneously say Ten Hag doesn’t improve players and we only finished third because we rode Rashford’s best season in his career…playing for Ten Hag.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Not only that but they’ll simultaneously say Ten Hag doesn’t improve players and we only finished third because we rode Rashford’s best season in his career…playing for Ten Hag.
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Does that mean he takes the blame for Rashford being useless this season? Or is it just another terrible point?
 
Leftback99 said:
Does that mean he takes the blame for Rashford being useless this season? Or is it just another terrible point?
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Yes. I have posted multiple times in this thread that the reason the players are underperforming won’t matter and he’ll lose his job if it’s not fixed. That’s how professional football works for the most part fair or not. I just think tactics are far from the main reason for it cause I’ve seen them work. You lot are twisting yourselves into pretzels to attribute every positive thing that’s happened to everyone but the manager.
 
Leftback99 said:
Does that mean he takes the blame for Rashford being useless this season? Or is it just another terrible point?
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Ten Hag tactics got him 1:1 with goalkeeper. Then he needs to finish that. You also want to blame Ten Hag for him flying to Dublin for a night on the lash?

But all in all is it far fetched to say Ten Hag's influence on this troublesome, at times toxic group has been a positive note? How many times did we read how he had lost the dressing room, only to emerge with games like last sunday? Maybe he isn''t perfect but for this group, at this moment, I think you cannot get a better coach than Ten Hag.

And I would'v loved to see Mainoo from the start of the campaign, together with a new owners start and much better transfer summer. As it is, I don't think it's so bad at all. Onana fills up a space that needed changing. Mount can be for Bruno's position. Hojlund coming along nicely. A top 6 finish at worst and a few more additions, hopefully a good pre season tour and let's see for 24 25. I know, a lot have the knives sharpened for the next 'crisis' but I agree Ten Hag has made several up their game, not least Garnacho. As an aside, I like that Ten Hag doesn't care for Antony's price tag. If Garnacho performs better then he starts.Let's go and make Spurs and Villa a bit shaky.
 
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NLunited said:
5th/6th in the media. Out of 26 journalists at the BBC, 23 had MU out of the top 4.
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And it wouldn't be like the media to run a negative story about United for clicks.

What do you think the clubs expectations at this stage of the Ten Hag era would have been?

Do you think considering he took over a team that finished 6th with a GD of 0, that they'd be happy after letting him spend £450m that we're currently 6th with a GD of 0?
 
feck me this place is a dumpster fire .

Same arguments over and over again. I just don’t understand it. The most likely scenario is that Ten Hag is just a mediocre manager. If he was an all time great, he would have shown us by now. I guess you just have to ask yourself if he is good enough for one of the 5 biggest clubs in the world?
 
NLunited said:
We have had a Frankenstein of a squad, which needs sorting out. Chopping and changing like Chelsea does is not going to do us any favours.
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This is where I’ve been for a long time.

But in reality, a lot of football fans don’t look at the bigger picture.

I’ve yet to see an ‘out’ argument that does so convincingly.

Of course, none of us can predict the future, but it’s nice to see a few willing to look past quoting stats, or making bizarre arguments about ‘patterns of play’.

Uncanny echoes of the pundits who we lambast on a weekly basis, minus the spitting hopefully!
 
andersj said:
It feels a bit like people take the development of Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo for granted. In my opinion EtH deserves a lot of credit for that. One year ago, Garnacho reminded me of Rashford, Greenwood or even Martial in certain part of his games. But off the ball, he has made huge progress that those players barely ever made.

He is a great coach for player development. I think he proved that Ajax with young players like Frenkie, de Ligt, Gravenberch and Timber, but also a few older ones like Haller, Tadic and Ziyech.
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Dalot is another big improvement for me under EtH. Until the Liverpool game at the start of last season i just had no idea what he was supposed to excel at other than having good/decent technique. The first part of last season had me thinking 'there's a good player here' but then AwB won his place back in the second half of last season.

Dalot has had a few bad games early on this season but his consistency for the most part has been really impressive and I think EtH deserves a lot of credit for that considering that we never really saw anything from him under Ole or Jose who bought him.
 
andersj said:
It feels a bit like people take the development of Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo for granted. In my opinion EtH deserves a lot of credit for that. One year ago, Garnacho reminded me of Rashford, Greenwood or even Martial in certain part of his games. But off the ball, he has made huge progress that those players barely ever made.

He is a great coach for player development. I think he proved that Ajax with young players like Frenkie, de Ligt, Gravenberch and Timber, but also a few older ones like Haller, Tadic and Ziyech.
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I agree and I also completely forgot Nick Powell used to play for us. He just disappeared from top level football, huh.
 
DSG said:
feck me this place is a dumpster fire .

Same arguments over and over again. I just don’t understand it. The most likely scenario is that Ten Hag is just a mediocre manager. If he was an all time great, he would have shown us by now. I guess you just have to ask yourself if he is good enough for one of the 5 biggest clubs in the world?
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Always happens when there's no united footie. Tone of the arguments is dictacted by the result and performance of our last match(es)
 
stevoc said:
And it wouldn't be like the media to run a negative story about United for clicks.

What do you think the clubs expectations at this stage of the Ten Hag era would have been?

Do you think considering he took over a team that finished 6th with a GD of 0, that they'd be happy after letting him spend £450m that we're currently 6th with a GD of 0?
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How would I know? The injuries surely give him a bit of leeway and third place last season. 6th is not great but it isn‘t 10th (Chelsea).
 
stevoc said:
And it wouldn't be like the media to run a negative story about United for clicks.

What do you think the clubs expectations at this stage of the Ten Hag era would have been?

Do you think considering he took over a team that finished 6th with a GD of 0, that they'd be happy after letting him spend £450m that we're currently 6th with a GD of 0?
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Shameless :lol:

Yes, that we were run by a bunch of clowns who slowly turned the club into an amateurishly ran dysfunctional money front is a media invention.
 
A few of you just refuse to accept that there are people who like and support ETH.
Deal with it and move on.
 
NLunited said:
How would I know? The injuries surely give him a bit of leeway and third place last season. 6th is not great but it isn‘t 10th (Chelsea).
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I'm asking you what you think their expectations would have been mate.

I think the takeover process more than anything has given him leeway.
 
DSG said:
feck me this place is a dumpster fire .

Same arguments over and over again. I just don’t understand it. The most likely scenario is that Ten Hag is just a mediocre manager. If he was an all time great, he would have shown us by now. I guess you just have to ask yourself if he is good enough for one of the 5 biggest clubs in the world?
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He's done better than Klopp in his first couple of years. I say give him time.
 
LordSpud said:
He's done better than Klopp in his first couple of years. I say give him time.
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In Klopps first 2 full seasons he finished 4th, 4th, and got to the CL final.

It's still mathematically possible for us to finish 4th this season of course. But even if we somehow did which seems unlikely, then that League Cup win would be doing a lot of heavy lifting to say Ten Hags done better.
 
If nothing else, just look at how Southgate gets good old Maguire to play his usual wooden act and how different Ten Hag makes him circumvent his obvious lesser traits.
 
stevoc said:
In Klopps first 2 full seasons he finished 4th, 4th, and got to the CL final.

It's still mathematically possible for us to finish 4th this season of course. But even if we somehow did which seems unlikely, then that League Cup win would be doing a lot of heavy lifting to say Ten Hags done better.
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Who's coming in to do better out of interest?
 
andersj said:
It feels a bit like people take the development of Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo for granted. In my opinion EtH deserves a lot of credit for that. One year ago, Garnacho reminded me of Rashford, Greenwood or even Martial in certain part of his games. But off the ball, he has made huge progress that those players barely ever made.

He is a great coach for player development. I think he proved that Ajax with young players like Frenkie, de Ligt, Gravenberch and Timber, but also a few older ones like Haller, Tadic and Ziyech.
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Yeah it doesn't feel like he gets anywhere near enough credit for it. We've seen it in the past with talented young players, it's not easy to develop them. We have two youth academy players that look like they could be legitimate superstars and starters for us for years to come. ten Hag deserves a lot of praise for that.
 
Ten Hag is miles ahead of Southgate. Both of their treatment of Mainoo shows that. Southgate the prick took too long to recognise Bellingham, and now is doing the same with Mainoo.

How could Southgate have United DNA? No chance.
 
The only manager who is arguably good enough to replace ETH right now would be Nagelsmann. If somebody like Potter, Southgate, De Zebri, Flick becomes United manager, the "fraud" brigade will have field days!
 
Pronewbie said:
I agree and I also completely forgot Nick Powell used to play for us. He just disappeared from top level football, huh.
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Scored on his debut against Wigan! Off topic, I know, but I'll always remember this sequence of tackles from that game:

 
Himannv said:
Southgate being linked to the job has done wonders for the confidence everyone has in Ten Hag. :lol:
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Maybe that was the trick. Now retaining EtH for one more year doesn't look like a bad idea.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah, you willing to share the list of managers you think are better than Ten Hag?
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I don't think there is a manager available who would be surely better than him.

If I were forced to look at options I like Nagelsmann and Amorim is interesting, but I favour neither of them over who we currently have.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah, you willing to share the list of managers you think are better than Ten Hag?
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We Have a Goal Difference of Zero after 28 games let that sink in. We play awful footy under ETH it’s boring. All the teams above us in the league are better managed for sure. He’s 10 league games left of the season let’s see how they play out. Excellent cup win for sure couple of easy games coming up to so momentum should be good. I want him out never hidden that but if he gets top 4 then he may get another chance. His zealots on here are wonderful with the excuses but there is no denying we are a terrible team to watch under ETH.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Yes. I have posted multiple times in this thread that the reason the players are underperforming won’t matter and he’ll lose his job if it’s not fixed. That’s how professional football works for the most part fair or not. I just think tactics are far from the main reason for it cause I’ve seen them work. You lot are twisting yourselves into pretzels to attribute every positive thing that’s happened to everyone but the manager.
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But what if those players are highly inconsistent every season after a long time at the club? Are we then twisting ourselves into knots trying to attribute everything to the manager? When the constant variable is in fact a large set of the players…

Edit: on second reading, think we’re saying the same thing
 
Himannv said:
Southgate being linked to the job has done wonders for the confidence everyone has in Ten Hag. :lol:
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Maybe that was the ploy from the leadership team... to galvanise support for this final run.. 4d chess if so.
 
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