The worst move is the one that never happened - at striker. We have had the likes of Weghorst and Hojlund. Rashford's highly improbably run of goals after the new year last season aside, the conspicuous absence of a proper striker has been doubly infuriating given what he needlessly spent on Mount and Hojlund (who I think will develop into solid player, just not soon enough to save ETH).
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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The worst move is the one that never happened - at striker. We have had the likes of Weghorst and Hojlund. Rashford's highly improbably run of goals after the new year last season aside, the conspicuous absence of a proper striker has been doubly infuriating given what he needlessly spent on Mount and Hojlund (who I think will develop into solid player, just not soon enough to save ETH).
Who should we have signed instead?
Dortmund lost the league last season, Bayern only won it cause they bottled it. I wouldnt say winning league last year was any indication of "how good" Bayern were.
I think its more impressive winning a league when you are kneck and kneck with a rival. Cruising to a title with double digit comfort is impressive, but doesnt tell you anything about how a team performs under pressure. Its like the nonsense when Arsenal didnt lose a match all season, who cares, thats not the most impressive league win by a stretch.
Alonso is the flavour of the season. I would expect Leverkusen to win the Europa aswell. If they are breaking all these German records and German football is so good, it should be very attainable.
If you think hes as good as you say, then I think the bar needs to be set higher to warrant the praise.
Honestly I’m not really even putting them forward for the job but their just part of my reasoning. I can’t say I’m overly knowledgeable on any of them so I’ll take your word on their levels. Good to know there’s options.
Your last point goes to what I’m saying though, the levels are not as distinct as some are making out for me. Past achievements have to be considered.
Also is perception of style of play having an influence on those who want a change? I’m thinking any new manager will face the same problems implementing a new style with players he hasn’t chosen from the start and other factors.
I think the fact that United managers, only in the last 3 seasons have had to rely on strikers like Ighalo, a crocked Martial and Weghorst says it all about Uniteds squad building competency. These were not manager issues, they were club issues.
I really wish people would stop quoting Weghorst as if ETH had the pick of any players in the world and opted for him. That season, Two of our strikers, Ronaldo and Greenwood, were effectively gone and he had no chance to replace them. Then when he had a chance to do something, the club clearly didnt have much money in January and he had to get cheap as chips Weghorst.
Its one of the many annoying things when people talk about certain aspects of ETH tenure, without adding context to certain decisions.
I don't disagree that there's a club component to our decade of ineptness, but ultimately its up to the manager to tell the club which players he wants. ETH clearly did that since we wound up with a gaggle of former Ajax or Dutch players. He also clearly did that by asking the club to spend so much on Mount - a player who despite his injuries, doesn't appear to have a clear role in our starting XI. At the same time, we are in another situation where we are clearly struggling with goals all year which is born out in our goal difference numbers. That transcends just the club making mistakes. This is clearly a situation where the manager bought the wrong players needed to improve on last year's finish. This is before we even discuss moves like Weghorst, Armrabat, Regulon, and Evans (who at his age I rate but is obviously not a long term solution).
It’s still more secure than the other 3 teams I’ve mentioned as there 100% leaving. You don’t even hear or see Chelsea linked with any managers and there far worse than us.
I think A club making a consistent balls of transfers , squad mismanagement and contract extensions for over a decade under multiple managers is a club problem that no manager could fix in one or two windows. Especially when the club is in a state of flux and nobody knows who is gonna be running the show or even if the manager is in the plans of the new owner.
I mean, Ratcliffe spent a billion to be able to completely restructure the football infrastructure before he’s even looked at the manager. That tells us all we need to know about how bad things really were. I can’t understand how anybody can think “a better manager signs better players” when literally none of the top managers at the top clubs do that.
Only because it's been made public those 3 are leaving in June. There's no more story for the media to speculate about.
Story about United=clicks
Story about will a manager be sacked=clicks
Story that the United manager might be sacked=mega clicks
To be fair the managers to varying degrees have contributed to the problem.
I already agreed with you on Dortmund.
I also agree that a race neck on neck is more impressive in general, but then I think we should give credit for how the current gap was opened - in a direct duel where each team could have been in first place afterwards. Leverkusen won 3-0 and didn't look back, that probably was the highest pressure match possible.
And yes, the expectation for them by now has to be to win at least the domestic double and in the EL probably only a loss against Liverpool would be the only scenario except winning it that wouldn't be seen as a failure.
I think they stick with EtH. Hardly any elite managers available and already there are two, maybe 3, looking for one. To be fair to Erik we have had a shocking season of injuries. If SJR/Ineos get the structure right around him, and we have money available to spend in the summer, then I think they give him until the end of the year. Then either sack him or extend his contract based on where we are at that time. Without injuries, and with a couple of additions, this squad should be more than capable of challenging.
Hojlund and Weghorst in the same line . I rest my case . Sorry !
Again, we just can't bring emergency loan signings to the mix and say his signings has been bad. That would be a agenda based discussion just to slate him.Weghorst was bad but his numbers before Burnley were decent and he had a good world cup too. Was there a better option there in Jan for a loan ?
That's yet another bad reflection on the club. As long as we look to the manager to fix the transfers...the problems will continue
The better option is to not sign him at all.
He provided nothing and was an hindrance.
The fact our manager wanted him in and then proceeded to play Rashford and Bruno out of position to accommodate him some games was very concerning.
I think Ten Hag deserves a lot of credit allowing Mainoo into the team so young.
You can tell it’s gonna take time but even Amad against liverpool or Garnacho all season you can see he’s improving players.
I’ve gone from not impressed one bit first half of the season to now seeing something emerging.
You can tell it’s gonna take time but even Amad against liverpool or Garnacho all season you can see he’s improving players.
I’ve gone from not impressed one bit first half of the season to now seeing something emerging.
Yeah and mine too,so who would be the other two?
Probably De Zerbi, and as a gamble I like Amorim/inzaghi aswell. Who would your top 3 be?
I’m not saying managers haven’t contributed but our club consistently makes it hard for managers. If you are a manager of city or Liverpool or even Brighton or spurs, you are more likely to inherit a better squad (to meet relative targets) and get value for money on signings.
I mean Fellaini was Woodwards first signing. Pay way over the odds, for a player the manager probably didn’t want, probably not even a top target and it was really as much to add a body to the squad. How often has that happened or many of these factors played a role in a signing ?
That really did set the precedent for the Woodward years. Even Mata after that was nothing to do with Moyes, he never fit into any Moyes tactical plan. That was to make Woodward not look like a complete clown, but Mata was put up for sale and was a nice easy big name win.
Van Gaal repeatedly stated that United kept buying players well down the top targets. Every transfer window the last 11 years you can pick out players where you could see a situation where it wasn’t the managers choice (or well down pecking order) and/or a player was signed because they could be signed as opposed to it being a player really wanted or needed.
Big name signings , quite often, looked like signings made cause they could be made. The obvious signings as my spurs friend used to say , which didn’t happen often under SAF. Almost like a child playing football manager throwing money to sign a big name.
City/Pool and other better run clubs just need a top quality coach. United need a top quality Jack of all trades manager to navigate the dysfunctional setup. I think we needs a unique manager because there are unique issues at United. So when we see a manager doing well or better at a club that seems to do well under multiple different managers, we need to be careful not to presume that would translate to United because a manger “could instill his style quickly”.
I guess this is where I differ from fans who focus on our managers. Ive felt the same whoever has been managing us, that our managers are basically setup to fail by the incompetent infrastructure. The headline spending protected Woodward and kept the focus on the managers.
Fair enough …
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That’s not entirely true.
Weghorst created space for other players to flourish. Rashford had his best scoring spell with Weghorst starting a run of games.
For all the “Weghorst was a terrible signing cause he didn’t score” arguments, United had their best run of wins when he started from Jan - feb.
I think of this like the McTominey situation. ETH has shown a remarkable ability to make certain players just work out in weird ways. But some fans can only somehow twist the narrative to the negative.
McT scores loads of goal “oh and ETH wanted him sold”. United had a good run when weghorst joined and started for a few weeks “weghorst was useless , offered nothing”. There is no balance with some of you and no bigger picture reflection.
out of all the names getting mentioned i really don't see any that don't have certain obvious flaws, Tuchel and Nagelsmann have questions over how they seem to be falling out with everyone, Inzaghi cant speak English, De Zerbi is maybe a 1 season wonder, Southgate just absolutely no for so many reasons. I almost surprised that Moyes is not getting mentioned 
. I am totally 100% fine for Erik to continue next season and i hope this is what will happen.
. I am totally 100% fine for Erik to continue next season and i hope this is what will happen.Nagelsmann falling out with everyone is news to me...out of all the names getting mentioned i really don't see any that don't have certain obvious flaws, Tuchel and Nagelsmann have questions over how they seem to be falling out with everyone, Inzaghi cant speak English, De Zerbi is maybe a 1 season wonder, Southgate just absolutely no for so many reasons. I almost surprised that Moyes is not getting mentioned
I have a hunch ETH might hang onto his job even if we finish 6th because of the way he's handled the emergence of Hojland, Garnacho and Mainoo. If he can keep doing that then we will be title winners in 5 years without a huge outlay. That has to be very attractive to INEOS.
None of them is at the level to lead a team to league titles. They might reach it, but so far they haven't proved that (and EtH therefore hasn't proved that he can get them up to that level). So as of now this is still an open question.
If they had proved it then the post would have been "they are league winners" not "if he keeps doing that we will be league winners in 5 years"
Weird reply for a simple post.
That's what people thought about Ole when he finished third and built one of the league's youngest sides.
I'm really surprised that the main reason for letting ETH stay on is because the other candidates all have flaws. As if ETH doesn't have any himself.
He hasn’t done any more than would be expected of any semi competent manager though. Other than those players, we have no CF, no RW (except the terrible one he purchased) and our midfield has been continually rubbish. It’s not surprising that he’s been compelled to give the youngsters chances.
That definitely wouldn’t be enough for me for him to keep the job. He needs a very strong finish to the season, where we actually look like a structured top level football team. The Liverpool match was obviously a great platform to build on.
I've never seen a straw man put up and then cut down with such brutal speed and efficiency.
But yes he has flaws. However if he continues to improve players the way he has (let's not forget Dalot either) then he's definitely going to go places.
I mean, no one explicitly stated 'ETH is perfect!!'.... but the strict criteria in which they judge other candidates and comb through them for perfection is interesting to say the least.
There's a lot going on at the club just now. Berrada isn't in post yet, but I suspect he's talking to SJR about stuff such as money being available. New ground one way or the other. Players leaving and joining. New DOF (eventually). Is it the right time to change the Manager? He has made mistakes with signings and tactics, he's chased Frenkie de Jong who has made it clear he wants to stay at Barca. I'm not convinced he would improve the team anyway. I reckon they'll give EtH another year and review when things settle down. As long as we don't appoint Southgate, I don't care who replaces him in the end.
Nah, the more likely scenario is that the Caf is full of knee jerking clueless numpties.
You should ask yourself if there are other levels inbetween medicore and all time great.
Never liked ETH but i can see our club ethos in the youths coming up. He should stay.
'Complexity isn't the hallmark of football fan thinking' would be a polite way of saying the same thing. ETH has a lot of work to do and he won't always get it right. But for me there are clear signs of progress, albeit not in a straight line and with some unforced errors.
Both can be true
I think what you've experienced was literally rock bottom just before the new year, and the only way was up when the injured players returned.
He will keep his job regardless of where we finish. I think he will also be here all of next season regardless of results, barring a major disaster like us fighting relegation at Christmas, and will be re-assessed in 2025-26. It's just important that we back him now and get him the players he wants and needs.
That could be applied to all those that fapped themselves silly over him and, in the end, got their man. Perhaps they were the clueless ones? In fact, I know they are. Because after only a handful of games I questioned their claims he was a possession based manager (plus 'the next Guardiola' or 'a mix of Klopp & Pep' etc.), when I could see from our shape that he wasn't trying to implement that at all. I got called out for it, but did laugh to myself when he came out and pretty much claimed he wanted us to be a transition team.
These posters also ignored red flag warnings from Ajax fans at the time of hiring him too. So yeah, you're probably right.
We are all clueless in our own ways!
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