Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[VP89]

Bollocks. Ten Hag wanted Antony, but it wasn‘t going to happen because Ajax did not want to sell more players.

I‘m not blaming him for what we paid: that‘s on the club.

Ajax told Antony he could leave early on be fair.

 

[Lynty]

Shaking up the whole recruitment/management structure, having a clear out of players and swapping your manager in one summer? Come one, nobody seriously thinks this is a good idea?

 

[crossy1686]

Shaking up the whole recruitment/management structure, having a clear out of players and swapping your manager in one summer? Come one, nobody seriously thinks this is a good idea?

It looks like long term planning, which usually involves short term instability. Unless Ten Hag gets into the CL, it will probably be Southgate coming in after the Euro’s, and with him Holland and a few more. Then with all that structure in place the appointment after Southgate will be Carrick or McKenna. I suspect INEOS have a ‘best of British’ approach in their ‘putting the Manchester back in Manchester United’ line of thinking.

 

[matherto]

Ofcourse it is. However; he is winning games whilst having all these injuries. Alot of ETH outers have said.. why does Ange still manage without his players. Well go have a look at his win % without Romero and Van der Ven starting. Go have a look at Liverpool's win % without VVD, Arsenal without Saliba.

We have been playing most season without Licha, who is for us, what those CB are for the clubs. Add to that we have no LB and CDM.

Its this poor narrative that all managers can manage without injuries apart from Ten Hag. Its nonsense. Not many other managers can win with a style when they are changing the back 4 every game.

Now, on top of that, we want to play a high line but we dont have the profile of CB's to do so, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof, Evans are all CB who want to defend the box, not be aggressive. We wanted Kim at the start of the season, an aggressive CB.

We need CB's who are happy to play the high line, play on the half way line and not drop, which is why we keep seeing this massive gap between our press and CB's.

Liverpool are top of the league and they've had how many players out this season?

 

[VP89]

Liverpool are top of the league and they've had how many players out this season?

How many games have they had a decimated backline?

 

[Glorio]

EtH has been underwhelming this season and has made questionable decisions regularly (looking at you Forson), however with the Southgate whispers, I'm really hoping he and his team get their ducks in a row and start producing to the point that this noise disappears

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Shaking up the whole recruitment/management structure, having a clear out of players and swapping your manager in one summer? Come one, nobody seriously thinks this is a good idea?

If the alternative is Southgate then I would much prefer we stick with EtH regardless.

 

[CasaStreets]

I’d be surprised if he’s not here for next season.

He clearly understands the problems and so does the team - Dalot referencing in post-match interview that defensive line dropped off further (not by direction) in 2nd half vs Pool. Watching on TV, I didn’t see what Pool did to force that change - I imagine Klopp asked Nunez to spin in behind Lindelof more to peg him back, forcing the whole line to drop.

Anyway, don’t let ETH recruit for a while. Get him more speed and depth at CB and a monster athlete CDM with improved passing vs Casemiro and this team will start clicking. It still won’t be a front 4 capable of breaking down low blocks but that can be added after we set a solid foundation.

Onward

 

[NLunited]

Ajax told Antony he could leave early on be fair.

Before Martinez was sold. They blocked his transfer after that. 90 mill changed their mind.

 

[croadyman]

IF it was actually a straight choice between those then it would definitely be De Zerbi,however whilst there is no solid links to a Nagelsmann/Inzaghi I will jump off the train until it happens.

 

[DJ_21]

Southgate will have more chance of getting a bigger job if he wins the euros this summer.

 

[Sarni]

Not that I believe these reports, but if cost becomes a genuine consideration when trying to appoint a new manager, we are doomed anyway.

 

[Robbie Boy]

A lot of noise at the moment that suggests he won't be the manager beyond May. I wanted him gone but if Southgate is the replacement then feck it, he can stay.

If we hire Southgate, we would become an absolute laughing stock and I'm pretty sure it would drive fans away.

 

[croadyman]

EtH has been underwhelming this season and has made questionable decisions regularly (looking at you Forson), however with the Southgate whispers, I'm really hoping he and his team get their ducks in a row and start producing to the point that this noise disappears

Yeah completely agree with that

 

[Zed 101]

I’d be surprised if he’s not here for next season.

He clearly understands the problems and so does the team - Dalot referencing in post-match interview that defensive line dropped off further (not by direction) in 2nd half vs Pool. Watching on TV, I didn’t see what Pool did to force that change - I imagine Klopp asked Nunez to spin in behind Lindelof more to peg him back, forcing the whole line to drop.

Anyway, don’t let ETH recruit for a while. Get him more speed and depth at CB and a monster athlete CDM with improved passing vs Casemiro and this team will start clicking. It still won’t be a front 4 capable of breaking down low blocks but that can be added after we set a solid foundation.

Onward

Problem is, to get a back line that is capable of playing the ETH model it will probably take all of any transfer budget we have;

Shaw is a problem due to poor injury record, but hopefully Malacia is back, so we would have 4 fullbacks, but probably only Shaw and Dalot are actually ideal
CB Martinez (and maybe Kambwala) have the legs to play a high defensive line so realistically need to shift and replace, Maguire and Lindelof, Evans is only on a one year and I believe Varane will be out of contract, but will still need replacing.... so we are going to need to sign a minimum of 2 CBs If we can offload those we have
Casemiro is a not an ongoing solution so will need shifting and replacing, can probably get rid easy enough but a replacement is going to be hard to find and expensive unless we unearth an unknown, and that leaves us with almost no cover in midfield.

This also means we are unlikely to buy anyone in attack, but this is the least issue.

In short to get us where we need to be to play the football ETH wants is going to be very expensive and difficult to achieve as well disruptive, I hope INEOS hit the ground running because it is going to be one hell of a window get this right!

 

[matherto]

How many games have they had a decimated backline?

https://www.premierinjuries.com/teams/liverpool
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/liverpool-fc/sperrenundverletzungen/verein/31/plus/1

Take a look.

No Matip, Alisson or Trent so three of the starting four plus Konate. Don't know many games it equates to.

 

[CasaStreets]

In short to get us where we need to be to play the football ETH wants is going to be very expensive and difficult to achieve as well disruptive, I hope INEOS hit the ground running because it is going to be one hell of a window get this right!

I agree with you about that, but that will have to happen no matter what for us to compete at the top - regardless of which tactics our manager wants to employ.

 

[Oranges038]

It looks like long term planning, which usually involves short term instability. Unless Ten Hag gets into the CL, it will probably be Southgate coming in after the Euro’s, and with him Holland and a few more. Then with all that structure in place the appointment after Southgate will be Carrick or McKenna. I suspect INEOS have a ‘best of British’ approach in their ‘putting the Manchester back in Manchester United’ line of thinking.

Southgate
Carrick/McKenna

That would be an awful series of managers. A guy who hasn't managed in a club for 15 years and 2 guys who's best seasons are in the championship and league 1.

I'd bring back LVG before I'd let Southgate even look in the door.

As regards the other 2, lets see how they get on over the next couple of years before jumping the gun about how good they are.

 

[VP89]

https://www.premierinjuries.com/teams/liverpool
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/liverpool-fc/sperrenundverletzungen/verein/31/plus/1

Take a look.

No Matip, Alisson or Trent so three of the starting four plus Konate. Don't know many games it equates to.

So compare this to Manchester United, who had Licha out effectively all season, Shaw out effectively all season, Wan Bissaka out most the season, Malacia out all season, Lindelof and Maguire for extended periods, rotating availability at different times.

Whils yes, juggling injuries elsewhere on the pitch too. What exactly is the comparison?

If you don't know for how many games all of those were out together it's a baseless stat.

 

[Member 58925]

Liverpool are top of the league and they've had how many players out this season?

Liverpool have had 8 years to tailor their squad to fit what their manager wants to do. If there are any players in their squad that weren't bought or promoted by Klopp it can't be more than 2-3. Also remind me again how they looked after they won the title with the same volume of back 4 injuries that we've had this season?

 

[DJ_21]

I like that ETH isn’t afraid to take risk. Yes sometimes they don’t always pay of but sometimes they will and against Liverpool they did. Bruno at the back, Maguire upfront. Worked a miracle. He’s a risk taker..

 

[DJ_21]

Liverpool are top of the league and they've had how many players out this season?

There use to the managers system though even the stand in players are. Remind me what they did the year after they won the title and VVD was injured most the season…. Didn’t we finish above them?

 

[Alex99]

Liverpool have had 8 years to tailor their squad to fit what their manager wants to do. If there are any players in their squad that weren't bought or promoted by Klopp it can't be more than 2-3. Also remind me again how they looked after they won the title with the same volume of back 4 injuries that we've had this season?

Off the top of my head, Gomez is the last man standing from the squad he inherited, and he was signed as a teenager the summer of the season Klopp joined. Everyone else was either signed or promoted from the academy while he was manager.

There use to the managers system though even the stand in players are. Remind me what they did the year after they won the title and VVD was injured most the season…. Didn’t we finish above them?

Yes, Ole's United finished 2nd, while they clawed their wat from 8th with about four or five games left to 3rd.

They also finished 5th last season, despite being in the hunt for the quadruple the season before. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I can't remember a significant injury crisis.

 

[Dazzmondo]

Mindboggling to me that so many on here can seriously want ETH to stay after seeing us this season. The defending has been so atrocious. People on here seem to act like it's all down to poor recruitment, when the biggest concern for me, even going back to last season when we were still getting good results, has always been the tactical flaws. There are huge gaps between midfield and defence, we're conceding chances all over the place, the team are incapable of effectively playing out from the back which was apparently the whole point of getting Onana in the first place, and even in the attack there doesn't appear to be any clear plan, just relying on individual quality from some very good players.

From a purely defensive perspective, this is the weakest Utd have looked under any manager in my lifetime (including Rangnick which was also terrible). Most of the midfield and attackers are actually very good imo, so I don't even think we need a particularly massive influx of new players. Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford, Hojlund is a very strong attacking lineup. Add in a reliable dm and a reliable striker when Hojlund is unavailable and the squad is up there. Shaw and Martinez are problems due to injury proneness though they are great players when available, and we def need at least 1 new cb (which I'm sure we'll get). Dalot has actually shown he can be reliable as a rb. Btw, everyone here thinks Lindelof is about as useful as a wet shoe, but one year ago the narrative was very different, so I personally think the defensive issues are much more structural than due to the individual players, even if they could definitely be upgraded.

Any manager who knows how to organise a defence will immediately make us significantly better imo. Southgate's done a good job organising England's defence, so I can see the thinking behind it. If the new backroom staff think he's the right guy, I'll trust them until they give me reason not to trust them. The fans already showed they don't know who the best manager for Utd is with the clamour for ETH (Rangnick also had everyone praising the appointment before he joined too), so the outrage is just pointless.

If Southgate is appointed, he should be given a chance instead of trying to hound him out and make things difficult for him immediately. ETH has had his chance.

 

[VP89]

Mindboggling to me that so many on here can seriously want ETH to stay after seeing us this season. The defending has been so atrocious. People on here seem to act like it's all down to poor recruitment, when the biggest concern for me, even going back to last season when we were still getting good results, has always been the tactical flaws. There are huge gaps between midfield and defence, we're conceding chances all over the place, the team are incapable of effectively playing out from the back which was apparently the whole point of getting Onana in the first place, and even in the attack there doesn't appear to be any clear plan, just relying on individual quality from some very good players.

From a purely defensive perspective, this is the weakest Utd have looked under any manager in my lifetime (including Rangnick which was also terrible). Most of the midfield and attackers are actually very good imo, so I don't even think we need a particularly massive influx of new players. Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford, Hojlund is a very strong attacking lineup. Add in a reliable dm and a reliable striker when Hojlund is unavailable and the squad is up there. Shaw and Martinez are problems due to injury proneness though they are great players when available, and we def need at least 1 new cb (which I'm sure we'll get). Dalot has actually shown he can be reliable as a rb. Btw, everyone here thinks Lindelof is about as useful as a wet shoe, but one year ago the narrative was very different, so I personally think the defensive issues are much more structural than due to the individual players, even if they could definitely be upgraded.

Any manager who knows how to organise a defence will immediately make us significantly better imo. Southgate's done a good job organising England's defence, so I can see the thinking behind it. If the new backroom staff think he's the right guy, I'll trust them until they give me reason not to trust them. The fans already showed they don't know who the best manager for Utd is with the clamour for ETH (Rangnick also had everyone praising the appointment before he joined too), so the outrage is just pointless.

If Southgate is appointed, he should be given a chance instead of trying to hound him out and make things difficult for him immediately. ETH has had his chance.

Astounding.

 

[hobbers]

There use to the managers system though even the stand in players are. Remind me what they did the year after they won the title and VVD was injured most the season…. Didn’t we finish above them?

Why are MacAllister, Endo, Szoboz and Gravenberch, and Nunez, Gakpo and Diaz, and 17-18 year old academy players, all more use to their manager's system than any of our lot again?

 

[hobbers]

If Southgate is appointed, he should be given a chance instead of trying to hound him out and make things difficult for him immediately. ETH has had his chance.

ETH has indeed had his chance. But Southgate is not getting a solitary whiff of a chance from me and I assume most others.

Benefit of the doubt for certain failures was used up years ago with this club.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

I want EtH to stay. Yeah this season has been shambles.
To put into context look at City's record without Rodri. Liverpool last year with VvD out and all the injuries and they finished 5th. This is with the so called Generational Manager in Klopp
So why can't we give EtH another year with a proper structure above him? Mind shudders to think the alternatives are Waistcoat and Potter.

 

[Dazzmondo]

ETH has indeed had his chance. But Southgate is not getting a solitary whiff of a chance from me and I assume most others.

Benefit of the doubt for certain failures was used up years ago with this club.

Not giving a new manager a chance is so pointless and can literally only lead to bad things. Whatever about preferring someone else before any decision is made, if a new manager is appointed, they should always be at least given some time to see if they can succeed. Apparently you'd prefer the club to continue losing if it means you get to maintain your agenda against a manager you don't like. If that really does represent most on this forum you're sorry excuses for supporters.

 

[Member 58925]

https://www.premierinjuries.com/teams/liverpool
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/liverpool-fc/sperrenundverletzungen/verein/31/plus/1

Take a look.

No Matip, Alisson or Trent so three of the starting four plus Konate. Don't know many games it equates to.

Bradley has been preferred over TAA when both were healthy and Matip is no longer a regular starter for them even when healthy. It's not a valid comparison either way though as in the entirety of their squad there is one player that Klopp didn't buy or promote.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Any manager who knows how to organise a defence will immediately make us significantly better imo. Southgate's done a good job organising England's defence, so I can see the thinking behind it. If the new backroom staff think he's the right guy, I'll trust them until they give me reason not to trust them

Your opinion is shit and counts for nothing as per the guy below

The fans already showed they don't know who the best manager for Utd is with the clamour for ETH

 

[hobbers]

Not giving a new manager a chance is so pointless and can literally only lead to bad things. Whatever about preferring someone else before any decision is made, if a new manager is appointed, they should always be at least given some time to see if they can succeed. Apparently you'd prefer the club to continue losing if it means you get to maintain your agenda against a manager you don't like. If that really does represent most on this forum you're sorry excuses for supporters.

What a banal argument. If a new manager is appointed he will be given time to see if he can succeed. Irrelevant what any fans think about it. Even more so if he's the first appointee of new owners and new directors.

It's a waste of time and energy deluding yourself that someone you know is going to fail might just not, maybe because VIBES or something. This fanbase has certainly been there, done that.

Supporting an endless procession of bad things to continue happening to your club, just so you can say you're "supportive", is what idiots do.

 

[Dazzmondo]

What a banal argument. If a new manager is appointed he will be given time to see if he can succeed. Irrelevant what any fans think about it. Even more so if he's the first appointee of new owners and new directors.

It's a waste of time and energy deluding yourself that someone you know is going to fail might just not, maybe because VIBES or something. This fanbase has certainly been there, done that.

Supporting an endless procession of bad things to continue happening to your club, just so you can say you're "supportive", is what idiots do.

Everyone was excited about having new people in charge of the football decisions. These aren't the same people who have made the decisions for the last 10 years, so why exactly are the decisions of the last 10 years being used as justification for saying their choice for manager is wrong? Many of the managers we went for post-Ferguson were THE managers that the fans wanted at the time and haven't actually worked.

With the possible exception of Ole which had some backlash (certainly nowhere near as much as Southgate is getting), Southgate would probably actually be a break from how we've traditionally appointed managers. The board would be appointing a manager that they believe is the correct choice DESPITE the fans believing otherwise. I'm sure Dan Ashworth would have been consulted about any potential move regardless of him not officially being a Utd employee yet, and I trust his judgment based on his record to this point. Ratcliffe and the new backroom team haven't given me a reason to assume they would be wrong yet, and generally most of the steps they've been taking seem to be moving in the right direction.

 

[stevoc]

The Anthony signing should never have happened; that was a pure panic signing from the club who could not deliver Ten Hag his targets.

We need to see thoughtful pragmatic transfer business from now on. Last summer was a bit better, although it remains to be seen if the money spent on Mount was a good idea.

Note that Amrabat was signed on loan at the last minute; we were after other targets.

We apparently made enquiries for him and Martinez at the same time early in the window. The story was the club were put off by Ajax's asking price and a lot of the summer budget was obviously ear marked for DeJong. Once DeJong didn't pan out we went back in for Antony and then had to pay even more because it was so late in the window. But I don't think we can say Ten Hag didn't want him or that he wasn't one of his targets.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-utd-transfer-antony-martinez-27427939

 

[Dazzmondo]

Your opinion is shit and counts for nothing as per the guy below

The opinion of Ratcliffe and the new backroom staff that everyone was so happy and excited about just one week ago is what matters. Maybe give them a chance to actually make some decisions before immediately assuming you know better. If Southgate is appointed and then fails, there would be reason to doubt their footballing decisions going forward, but right now there's no reason to believe we know better than successful football people.

 

[matherto]

Bradley has been preferred over TAA when both were healthy and Matip is no longer a regular starter for them even when healthy. It's not a valid comparison either way though as in the entirety of their squad there is one player that Klopp didn't buy or promote.

They've also been missing a solid midfield for the majority of the year and attackers at various points.

Just because it's not specifically the defence doesn't mean it hasn't affected them and they're top and we're miles behind. It's an indictment of the way we're ran but it's an indictment of ETH that he doesn't have a specific style and reverts to chaos whenever the slightest thing (I know the injuries haven't been slight) changes his preferred XI. He also doesn't help himself by moaning about it and saying we'd be miles above where we are.

Yes results suffer for other teams when they have them to varying degrees but the style stays the same. We're a complete mess unless we're absolutely perfect and that's on the coaching staff.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mindboggling to me that so many on here can seriously want ETH to stay after seeing us this season. The defending has been so atrocious. People on here seem to act like it's all down to poor recruitment, when the biggest concern for me, even going back to last season when we were still getting good results, has always been the tactical flaws. There are huge gaps between midfield and defence, we're conceding chances all over the place, the team are incapable of effectively playing out from the back which was apparently the whole point of getting Onana in the first place, and even in the attack there doesn't appear to be any clear plan, just relying on individual quality from some very good players.

From a purely defensive perspective, this is the weakest Utd have looked under any manager in my lifetime (including Rangnick which was also terrible). Most of the midfield and attackers are actually very good imo, so I don't even think we need a particularly massive influx of new players. Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford, Hojlund is a very strong attacking lineup. Add in a reliable dm and a reliable striker when Hojlund is unavailable and the squad is up there. Shaw and Martinez are problems due to injury proneness though they are great players when available, and we def need at least 1 new cb (which I'm sure we'll get). Dalot has actually shown he can be reliable as a rb. Btw, everyone here thinks Lindelof is about as useful as a wet shoe, but one year ago the narrative was very different, so I personally think the defensive issues are much more structural than due to the individual players, even if they could definitely be upgraded.

Any manager who knows how to organise a defence will immediately make us significantly better imo. Southgate's done a good job organising England's defence, so I can see the thinking behind it. If the new backroom staff think he's the right guy, I'll trust them until they give me reason not to trust them. The fans already showed they don't know who the best manager for Utd is with the clamour for ETH (Rangnick also had everyone praising the appointment before he joined too), so the outrage is just pointless.

If Southgate is appointed, he should be given a chance instead of trying to hound him out and make things difficult for him immediately. ETH has had his chance.

If we’re handing out the Manchester United based on international managerial records much of which is against the likes of Lichtenstein, then let’s just go one better and hire Deschamps and let him tear us apart instead.

It’s perfectly understandable for our fans to be highly bemused and worried at the idea of Southgate as our manager. Club football is a completely different beast to international football and Southgate was a crap manager at club level. What’s his transfer record? Can he implement an attacking style of football? This isn’t cup football and we don’t have the talent England does.

 

[hobbers]

Everyone was excited about having new people in charge of the football decisions. These aren't the same people who have made the decisions for the last 10 years, so why exactly are the decisions of the last 10 years being used as justification for saying their choice for manager is wrong? Many of the managers we went for post-Ferguson were THE managers that the fans wanted at the time and haven't actually worked.

With the possible exception of Ole which had some backlash (certainly nowhere near as much as Southgate is getting), Southgate would probably actually be a break from how we've traditionally appointed managers. The board would be appointing a manager that they believe is the correct choice DESPITE the fans believing otherwise. I'm sure Dan Ashworth would have been consulted about any potential move regardless of him not officially being a Utd employee yet, and I trust his judgment based on his record to this point. Ratcliffe and the new backroom team haven't given me a reason to assume they would be wrong yet, and generally most of the steps they've been taking seem to be moving in the right direction.

What?

The decisions of the last 10 years aren't being used as a reason for dismissing Southgate. The many obvious reasons why he'd be an utterly shit choice in every possible way, are the reasons being used.....

Saying that Southgate would be a break from tradition because he'd be a choice made amidst fan backlash...? The boards will always think their hires are right at the time regardless of fan backlash. But this is the first time we'd be hiring someone who virtually no fan would have any real faith in. Even Moyes and Ole had huge fan backing when first hired for a variety of obvious reasons.

As for Ashworth... how many top managers has he scouted and appointed, who have then succeeded, at clubs looking to win trophies? None. Forget that. How many managers has he even appointed at clubs in his career so far? So why would you place so much faith in him, even in the face of what would look like blinding nepotism (if he hires Southgate)

 

[Dec9003]

It's about playing well too - not just winning. I'm fine with him getting us the points but I want to see more than that. I want to see some good football where we do not look disjointed and lazy. The win against Liverpool gave some hope that he can do that (although it was still suicidal football at times) but we need to see it consistently in the league.

100%, there is still work to do. If he keeps winning matches there is no point sacking him though. I don’t think we ever look lazy, mostly sloppy and disjointed. Now we have players like Mount and Hojlund back the performances need to go up a level, then Erik and the new board agree on how they see the team moving forward stick with him.

 

[Member 58925]

They've also been missing a solid midfield for the majority of the year and attackers at various points.

Just because it's not specifically the defence doesn't mean it hasn't affected them and they're top and we're miles behind. It's an indictment of the way we're ran but it's an indictment of ETH that he doesn't have a specific style and reverts to chaos whenever the slightest thing (I know the injuries haven't been slight) changes his preferred XI. He also doesn't help himself by moaning about it and saying we'd be miles above where we are.

Yes results suffer for other teams when they have them to varying degrees but the style stays the same. We're a complete mess unless we're absolutely perfect and that's on the coaching staff.

This is simply factually incorrect. He's struggled to implement his style consistently and he'll lose his job if he can't do this, but every League 2 manager has a style of playing. Comparing him to Klopp in that aspect who has had 8 years and brought in 99.9% of his squad is beyond asinine.