Needs to follow this up with a convincing win against Brentford. Chelsea and Liverpool then follow and he needs to prove this wasn’t a one off.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Oh my god there is! It must be true then!
I gotta say these days there are so many stats it makes your head spin, but the links I provided I checked. For instance, De Gea had a score creation of 0.13. Onana has 0.18 even with 28 played vs De Gea 38. Onana has a live pass of 5 after 28 with De Gea 3 after 38 played.
Even without the stats. Do you really not see how many times Onana moves up the field when the team is attacking, putting himself somewhere you expect Casemiro whilst one of the Cb's moves up, sometimes even inside the opposition box? Or have them out wide, like Maguire did and played as a semi winger whilst Onana is like a semi sweeper outside of his box? I love watching that stuff. It's so unconventional, so unpredictable and thus so difficult for opposition to play against. I grew up with Van der Sar being a ball playing goalkeeper but what Onana does is next level, almost like an outfield player. To answer your question: Onana does make us play much different than with De Gea.
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Rightly or wrongly it certainly feels like you were more interested in trying to put a downer on what should have been just a brilliant celebration.Oh my god there is! It must be true then!
Not sure why a fan would want to do that?
1. There's no examples because we LITERALLY do not play a high line. We tried to implement it a few times this season but Martinez has barely played. Last year we played with a mid to lower block for most of the season which suits our defenders, including Martinez. If someone is taller and faster than someone they are going to outrun and outstrength them the majority of the time. How many times do you people running past or barging over Virgil Van Dijk? Or William Saliba? And if you did it certainly wouldnt be from someone 5'8. There's nothing to argue here. When you play a mid to low block with a compact defence you are far less likely to have your centre backs exposed to 50-100 metre foot races or one on one physical confrontations high up the pitch as you would when playing an extremely high line (as city, arsenal and liverpool do) If Manchester United chose to play such a high line it would be exposed massively. When you play a mid to low block you're less likely to need your defenders to showcase their physical attributes and instead their more technical elements will shine through (positioning and timing as you point out), hence Martinez having a great season last year as he's superb technically.I won’t comment on everything you’ve said so I’ve selected the bits I disagree with most.
- It’s not just basic physics, but also I’m sure with such outstanding understanding of physics you’d get the idea of centres of gravity/mass and how someone smaller can use that to their advantage. Please provide evidence of Martinez being exposed by balls over the top. Surely he’s played enough for you to find these examples as “99/100” times he’d be exposed right?
- Ajax he played at CL level against the likes of Haaland before. I don’t remember him having a poor game given they kept a clean sheet. Haaland is arguably the most physically able striker in world football. It’s not just physics it’s positioning and timing.
- There were several instances where Onana broke Liverpools press with his passing. I remember one such pass out wide to Lindelof at LB that split through their press and a line of a midfield too.
The three best managers in this league have literally altered their way of who plays in their defence in order to have 6’5 + pacey players in their defence. Guardiola plays centre backs as full backs. Arteta plays centre backs at full backs. Every Liverpool centre half is about 9 feet tall. There is a reason for this. Are you seeing something that Guardiola, Arteta and Klopp aren’t?
2. What is this obsession with this one Ajax game against Dortmund
Martinez has literally faced Haaland since then and Haaland scored three goals and assisted two and Martinez got nowhere near him. You dont use one off games to make a point in this case.3. As stated, Onana is better on the ball than Degea, I've stated he's improved as the seasons gone on. My Onana point centres around the overall impact of his inclusion in the squad. His overall impact wont and cant be felt until the rest of our team is sorted out. I never said Onana has never influenced a goal or anything like that.
Ill ask this again, Please pinpoint where in Manchester Uniteds season we have reaped the benefits of Onana? Show me the stats? or the significant improvement in our build up play?
He's better than De Gea , I agree, I wanted De Gea out. But Onana is unable to make a significant enough impact on our overall play because he's a goalkeeper and because the rest of our team isnt good enough.
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Not my place to say, just find it funny and somewhat overdue you've been called out and literally memed now.Oh my god there is! It must be true then!
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1. There's no examples because we LITERALLY do not play a high line. We tried to implement it a few times this season but Martinez has barely played. Last year we played with a mid to lower block for most of the season which suits our defenders, including Martinez. If someone is taller and faster than someone they are going to outrun and outstrength them the majority of the time. How many times do you people running past or barging over Virgil Van Dijk? Or William Saliba? And if you did it certainly wouldnt be from someone 5'8. There's nothing to argue here. When you play a mid to low block with a compact defence you are far less likely to have your centre backs exposed to 50-100 metre foot races or one on one physical confrontations high up the pitch as you would when playing an extremely high line (as city, arsenal and liverpool do) If Manchester United chose to play such a high line it would be exposed massively. When you play a mid to low block you're less likely to need your defenders to showcase their physical attributes and instead their more technical elements will shine through (positioning and timing as you point out), hence Martinez having a great season last year as he's superb technically.
2. What is this obsession with this one Ajax game against Dortmund
3. As stated, Onana is better on the ball than Degea, I've stated he's improved as the seasons gone on. My Onana point centres around the overall impact of his inclusion in the squad. His overall impact wont and cant be felt until the rest of our team is sorted out. I never said Onana has never influenced a goal or anything like that.
- I can see from your perspective why you’d feel Martinez hasn’t played that at all. But there’s been times where he’s had those kind of foot races and come off better due to his positioning and timing. It’s an advantage but it doesn’t mean you always win. For what it’s worth I’d love to add a physical and fast CB to our back line to compliment Martinez.
- Haaland never outpaced Martinez when he was asked to play a high line. He’s played one of the most elite strikers in the world with the exact physical gifts you say Martinez wouldn’t cope with and coped perfectly fine. Martinez’s timing, positioning and aggression have more than compensated for any lack of pace.
- Fair enough. Onana I think has completely changed how we can build up. I think this effect will also be much more evident next season with new signings too.
This for me is what it feels like too, we just don't have the pace/physicality throughout our defence to play a sustained high press. Our CBs will just back off until the midfielders who've overloaded the box come back to reinforce them. Casemiro being at the age he is, and Rashford/Garnacho not always being on top of their defensive duties adds to this. Bruno too to an extent starts running like a headless chicken when we're trailing in the game but I'd expect him to shake that habit off if we have more CBs / DM that is confident in pressing high.
The next level up I feel is to sustain our high block and not back off into our low block so easily, we need a few more players in before we can start to do that against quality opposition - that will help a lot in not conceding so many shots every game, and won't leave those large spaces in the midfield that we see so often.
If 1 game was a deciding factor then he'd have been sacked after Bournemouth, Fulham, Palace, Brighton, Forest, practically every CL game etc. He should be judged on the season as a whole, not a game that could have gone either way. And the season on a whole has been a catastrophe.
Yeah but that can then be extrapolated to judging him on his whole tenure here + situations he's had to manoeuvre around, and not just this season. I think he's done the best he can, I just don't see another manager changing us all that much. I agree with all of what @Bosnian red said in his second paragraph, in terms of the clear issues with our play style - and those issues have been there throughout Ten Hag's tenure here, incl. last season.
1. There's no examples because we LITERALLY do not play a high line. We tried to implement it a few times this season but Martinez has barely played. Last year we played with a mid to lower block for most of the season which suits our defenders, including Martinez. If someone is taller and faster than someone they are going to outrun and outstrength them the majority of the time. How many times do you people running past or barging over Virgil Van Dijk? Or William Saliba? And if you did it certainly wouldnt be from someone 5'8. There's nothing to argue here. When you play a mid to low block with a compact defence you are far less likely to have your centre backs exposed to 50-100 metre foot races or one on one physical confrontations high up the pitch as you would when playing an extremely high line (as city, arsenal and liverpool do) If Manchester United chose to play such a high line it would be exposed massively. When you play a mid to low block you're less likely to need your defenders to showcase their physical attributes and instead their more technical elements will shine through (positioning and timing as you point out), hence Martinez having a great season last year as he's superb technically.
The three best managers in this league have literally altered their way of who plays in their defence in order to have 6’5 + pacey players in their defence. Guardiola plays centre backs as full backs. Arteta plays centre backs at full backs. Every Liverpool centre half is about 9 feet tall. There is a reason for this. Are you seeing something that Guardiola, Arteta and Klopp aren’t?
2. What is this obsession with this one Ajax game against Dortmund
3. As stated, Onana is better on the ball than Degea, I've stated he's improved as the seasons gone on. My Onana point centres around the overall impact of his inclusion in the squad. His overall impact wont and cant be felt until the rest of our team is sorted out. I never said Onana has never influenced a goal or anything like that.
Ill ask this again, Please pinpoint where in Manchester Uniteds season we have reaped the benefits of Onana? Show me the stats? or the significant improvement in our build up play?
He's better than De Gea , I agree, I wanted De Gea out. But Onana is unable to make a significant enough impact on our overall play because he's a goalkeeper and because the rest of our team isnt good enough.
Pictures.
https://utddistrict.co.uk/andre-onana-manchester-united/08/03/2024/
Nice article
https://theathletic.com/5322923/2024/03/08/andre-onana-manchester-united-revival/
I do however respect that not everybody including you, is sold on Onana being an structural improvement. I was very sceptical too, but now I believe in his extra value. I hope he wins people over in the next few weeks and months.
It's not the deciding factor, but it's a big factor. Things to consider:
- Cost - we have well documented financial issues that need to be sorted. Replacing Ten Hag early comes at a big cost.
- Mitigating factors this season - injuries, takeover, scandals, etc. It's been a shit show of a season without a doubt. It would affect anyone. The extent of how much it should effect us of course is up for debate, IMO he should have done much better but at the same time, it is a factor where some might think it was just unmanageable and leave enough room for doubt that it's worth staying the course
- Replacement options - not really any clear choice like when Liverpool got Klopp or City got Pep. Plenty of good managers, but all have their cons and risks. My biggest issue with Ten Hag is his off the ball/defensive coaching... that's a very big concern with De Zerbi too though, and he's generally my number 1 choice to replace Ten Hag if we do it. Again, just adds some "is it worth rushing into the sack?" if there's not confidence that it's the right call to make
- Squad morale/togetherness - The squad very clearly fully backs Ten Hag and they have a very good relationship. It's not easy to keep them on hit side after a shit show of a season like this one. A display like the one vs Liverpool this past weekend was huge to show that
- Club changes taking place - with the takeover, there is a huge amount of changes in process. New CEO, new structure, new DOF, new stadium, new executives, new staff, new recruitment team, huge amount of squad changes planned. Everyone accepts that this needs to happen regardless. Many of these won't be in place in time for the start of the transfer window, and making managerial changes before Ashworth for example can even start his job, before half of our structure changes are made, before we can even start the recruitment changes (and if anything, just making it harder to make these changes due to the cost) just doesn't make sense. We all want to get back to the top, but there's no use in making rash decisions before the right time to actually make these decisions, before the people who you hired to make these decisions can actually make these decisions.
- Ten Hag's performance - Obviously, this season has been a disaster and I personally don't think he'll be here long term, or have extremely big doubts if he can sufficiently coach us off the ball and defensively. I think it's a weakness of his. But I think there's also a lot of good that he brings, and last season was very good for the most part. I don't think we will get within 3 points of top 5 this season, think there is too much to do, but if we make the FA Cup Final? If we win the FA Cup? You just can't sack him if that happens.
Like transfers some times, the decision on Ten Hag seems too soon to make this summer given what our structure is like and how long the revamp will take. The most important part is the people who have been hired to make the big decisions for us, need to actually start their jobs before we make these decisions.
Oh my god there is! It must be true then!
Are you ok mate? Hope you can cope with this extremely serious attack.
Weird outlook to have as a fan to assess if the manager has earned your forgiveness and needing to do a performance review before giving him his due for a good result. It doesn't work the other way around after a successful season though does it.
This holds 0 weight when you find reasons to downplay a successful season.
Fixed:
Onana
Dalot New CB Martinez New LB
New DM Mainoo
Mount/Bruno
Garnacho Hojlund Amad
OR
Onana
Dalot New CB Martinez New LB
New DM Mainoo
Mount/Amad
Garnacho Hojlund New RW
Dalot New CB Martinez New LB
New DM Mainoo
Mount/Bruno
Garnacho Hojlund Amad
OR
Onana
Dalot New CB Martinez New LB
New DM Mainoo
Mount/Amad
Garnacho Hojlund New RW
It's a fine line between tweaking tactics because they're not working and tweaking tactics because the players aren't working. His job is to figure it out though.
Yeah its clear from when he implemented this tactic at Ajax that it requires the CBs to be aggressive. Not just ajax but all teams who press and try to pen the opposition in have aggressive centre backs. Its an area we are clearly lacking in with only Martinez providing that aggression. Hopefully we can resolve it this summer.
'Casemiro, Eriksen, Sabitzer, Mainoo, Hannibal, Amrabat and Mount'
Hannibal was a youth player and the likes of Eriksen, Casemiro, Sabitzer and Amrabat were to plug gaps for the now and not to build with the mid to long-term in mind. Kobbie Mainoo and Mount absolutely are players for the mid to long-term and the only thing missing is another deeper lying midfielder to complete the midfield composition. Mount is a #8/#10 and Mainoo is a #6/#8 and a specialist #6 completes the midfield composition. You have to attempt to look past the place holders that were brought on loan as temporary solutions for the midfield and look at the midfield construct in the mid to long-term. Amrabat and Sabitzer were never more than stop gaps, similar to Weghorst who was a temporary addition before we bought Rasmus Hojlund as the long-term player for the central strikers role. Broaden your horizons because it feels like you're very tunnel visioned in your assessment.
It's not that the players aren't listening to him because most of them are. The problem is that there's players at the back who just aren't comfortable with defending on the front foot. Lindelof absolutely isn't, and the alternative solution to him is to utilise Wily Kambwala as a front footed defender but he's probably still not ready for regular first team football. Lindelof also isn't utilised as a left back because his role is of a wide CB when he's playing on the left.
My post is assessing the team as far as implementing a proactive attacking system of play. It's got nothing to do with titles or trophies because when you implement the system by creating conditions for the team to develop in a proactive manner with the aim of exerting control in and out of possession, then you can talk about titles and pass judgement on the coaching of the team imo.
Maybe ten Hag will be a coach like Wenger and Benitez who finish in the top 4, like you say. But if he's allowed to complete the system he wants to implement, then who knows maybe he can surprise you.
Mainoo is also a youth player. Hannibal being a youth player doesn't matter. He's a 21 year old Tunisian international with almost 30 caps already. He actually did well for ten Hag vs Burnley and was then treated quite poorly on the back of it. Not that I rate Hannibal that highly. But he was purchased for a lot of money as a 16 year old.
One thing I will never buy is that Amrabat was a plug. The club structured a deal for him in such a way that it navigated FFP issues. You pay £8.5 million for a season long loan to get him immediately, and then buy him next summer (this one coming) for £21.4 million spread out over time. We thought we were getting a good DM/CM option for roughly £30 million. But, due to ten Hag's poor talent ID, it hasn't worked out for Amrabat, ten Hag or the club. It's going to end up being a short term move. But that certainly wasn't the plan. Sabitzer was a short term option. We can still assess how United have played with multiple combinations over the past 20 months.
I will be surprised if ten Hag does. I was done with Moyes after Olympiakos away. I was done with Mourinho around the time of his Sevilla rant. I was done with Ole after Demba scored vs us in Istanbul. Some of these managers stayed on for months after these events, but ultimately bit the dust. When I'm done with a manager, they'd nearly have to become the opposite of what they are for me to warm to them again. ten Hag lost me after he blew that 2-0 lead vs Sevilla. The football has been poor for 12 months now.
You are definitely a glass half full type of poster. There are fans who will only judge a manager if he has near perfect conditions, which I don't think is realistic. Even INEOS will make mistakes along the way. The reality is that ten Hag has had many advantages that his predecessors didn't. Not enough fans appreciate that. He has a lot of power and influence. He has influence over transfers, he's been given freedom to discipline players freely, and he's allowed sell/banish who he wants if a buyer can be found. He's been blessed with not having to work with Woodward. Arnold/Murtough have generally bent to his will. They failed to land de Jong, but that was naive by ten Hag and co. He clearly didn't want to leave Barcelona. And not every manager gets who he wants. City wanted Rice and then Paquetá last summer. They ended up having to settle for Matheus Nunes. Not even Pep gets everything he wants all of the time.
Evertyhing can look rosy if you look in a certain direction. That's not me. I think ten Hag has done some good, but I've been disappointed with his tenure overall.
Huge gap between not perfect and the Glazers.
Hannibal being a youth player or Mainoo, Garnacho or Dan Gore being youth players doesn't mean that he has to play them but he's brought two of those players through and made them part of the first 11 which is a good achievement in the almost two years hes been at the club and both players are potentially worth £100m imo. You were talking about the midfield and the reality is that we're only one deep lying midfielder away from having a complete midfield for the first 11 for the now, mid and long-term. And as far we know, we have only paid £4m for Hannibal with the rest of the money performance related as far as playing in the first team.
No, Amrabat was a temporary filler which was reported by journalists like Ornstein, who said that the United scouts were not sold on Amrabat hence they first made a attempt to sign Amadou Onana with McTominay potentially being moved on. When McTominay refused to leave, we then made a late attempt to sign Yousuf Fofana from Monaco on loan according to both The Athletic and RMC in France who are both top tier sources, but Monaco rebuffed our loan offer for the player and we had to settle for Amrabat. Erik ten Hag was obviously open to having Amadou Onana and Youssouf Fofana hence we made moves to sign the players before signing Amrabat. But when you can't get the players the scouts want due to lack of budget and a player not wanting to leave, then you have to bring in a placeholder on a temporary basis. Erik ten Hag wasn't pushing for Amrabat and the reports from both England and France back that up regards the attempt to sign both players from Everton and Monaco.
Again it's not about being a glass half full type of person, but rather looking at things holistically, rather than being tunnel visioned about something you have little knowledge about. I'm not saying that ten Hag will succeed if he completes the system and we buy the players that raise the technical, physical and athletic levels in the first phase of the pitch where the build up begins and opposition transitions end. We're close to that team (imo) right now, and I've backed up why I believe that to be the case. I don't care who the manager is or isn't, but what I want to see is if we're heading into the right direction as far as creating a proactive attacking system for the present day. And I believe that to be the case, which I've backed up several times. So instead of sacking him and wasting £10m and then appointing Southgate or Potter, why not give ten Hag the opportunity to see if he delivers next season with the player profiles that are missing in defence and midfield.
And I'm not sure what you mean by not every manager gets what they want because I've never made that argument. My argument is pretty simple, give him three players to come straight into the first phase of the pitch to enhance the build up on the ball and control/contain the transition in a higher line. There's numerous players I can put forward for the positions but the likes of Mayorga, Wells and potentially Sam Jewell, if he arrives, will have a much bigger list due to the resources at their disposal. I'm against signing players for big money.
This isn't true. Last season I backed him despite the occasional bad result because it was an improvement in the right direction; we played well more often than not. Same was true under Ferguson.
This season, we have been in reverse gear. The performance and result vs scum was an exception rather than the rule. We cannot ignore how bad we have otherwise been most of this season. We are 7th ffs and lucky to not be lower. The only good thing is that clearly the players haven’t given up.
Some of the issues are obvious eg the gap between the midfield and defence and the poor movement. I hope he does fix them and take us to the next level. As Man Utd, we cannot be accepting of low standards. This victory reminds me of the scouse victories when Ferguson was our manager; game raising vs superior opponents.
In the 'WWFD' stakes, this was a real throwback, which made it all the more fun and exhilarating. Sexton and Atkinson as well as Busby were the same, and this is the kind of game that is an embodiment of the club; win or lose, rabid, aggressive and all out until the final whistle, so it stirs up a pit of emotions that have been forced latent as, as you say, manager after manager have attempted to tepidly see out games to no avail with none of the 'United fire' in their bellies.
People in this thread who are adamant that win comes before performance and style of play don't wish to acknowledge that how the game was played and how it was won is what gives a coach more time to implement what he wants in the future whilst keeping swathes of supporters on board because it's the United they either grew up with or were told of by the older folk who probably indoctrinated them in the first place. I've known nothing but this kind of up and at 'em football from us during all the formative and fanatic years, and the last decade has mostly been so far removed from that, it's hard to identify with what is being presented as United when so little of it typifies the cornerstones of the club and how it became a global phenom in the 50's and 60's, let alone into the Fergie era.
Whatever machinations there have been about ten Hag and the things he is doing poorly with, I really liked that with his neck on the line and the pressure really beginning to mount that he went 'United' and tore into our greatest rivals as best he could. The organised chaos at the end was agreeable and enjoyable and I'd rather that energy and approach for the remainder of the season than us trying to tippy toe our way through the remaining games. The old United mantra was: if you score 4, we'll score 5, and teams feared us for the suffocating pressure our waves of attack produced, which in turn would excite the crowd and have them lend even more energy. That tandem leading to so many memorable games and performances. If we don't go for games, the crowd can't get into that frenzied state, and in turn, the players are left on their own, to a degree, which is problematic when confidence has a great say on how games turn.
The rematch is going to be huge. Klopp and co thought this would be a formality and there was genuine shock on his face as well as surprise that we found it within ourselves to come right back into the game with amended tactics and a shift in approach with hitting balls longer and over the top. For once, ten Hag outcoached somebody of note, and it's a huge feather in his cap. If he can do it again, I think he'll be looked at in quite a different light to how he is or has been for an age now.
Something different about this game was the constructive positives that could be taken away from it. Sure, there were things that need to be addressed, but there were a lot more positives to what we did and how we did it compared to the vast majority of games this season. It's ten Hag' job to extract the positives and build upon them, whilst reducing the negatives as best as can be in an ongoing season. This could be a pivotal point for him, and if he is a manager worthy of continuing with, he'll capitalise and galvanise the positive aspects at the very least. I don't want to see a regression back to the mean after this game - I think that this is pivotal on both sides of the coin, to the positive and negative; if he goes back to type, a lot of this newfound energy and positivity will evaporate; if he does now capitalise on the good stuff, we could be in for an enjoyable end to the season that gives fair grounds to him getting that extra season to extricate himself and have the bad parts of this season written off with benefit of the doubt afforded.
Bottom line is this euphoria is temporary and it'll need to be captialised upon to have the dial shifted - if we went on to win the cup, for example, then the Liverpool game will go down in history as something revered for the ages, akin to how Fergie's job was 'saved' by Mark Robins, en route to us winning that cup.
southgate can feck off
It is, well said. I think we might be nearer a better shape if we get a couple of signings right. Nearer than we think (hopefully!)
Klopp really got 'pool consistent by strengthening that central spine; swapped out a less confident keeper, got in a defensive expert in VvD, refreshed midfield adding Wijnaldum and Fabinho while shipping Coutinho out and of course getting Mane and Salah in.
That's not to say they got it all right though, not by a long way, Naby Keita? I think it shows that recruitment is critical and needs a lot of expert support and input and there's really no reason why someone who can coach a team well should be able to buy players also. It's like expecting Max Verstappen to tinker with his own F1 car.
Heh! Yeah, I saw that.. Hopefully press rumours but BBC was trying to make it sound like we were pressing him to commit eek!
ENjoyable long post, @Fortitude
Yeah that would work apart from it proves the opposite, F1 drivers work tirelessly with their mechanics and engineers to "tinker" with their cars, if anything they are the most integral part of that process once the base car has been produced, not saying they get in there with spanners and wrenches, but then we are not talking about ETH drawing up contracts and conducting medicals.
I love the positioning of this post in the thread. I was reading some interesting debates with lenghy-ish replies touching on academy players, midfielders, structure etc.. and then boom "Southgate can feck off"
I'm not saying this season is successful thus far by the way.Which season are you referring to?
(Please be referring to this season....
But I do want to know what you would have classed as a successful second season, with the injuries etc. in play in mind?
Ta.
I'll pass that sentiment on to @Adnan.
Welcome back. Nothing I'd disagree with except all of that was known and the decision to make the leap all in one go instead of gradually has been what's questionable, not the fact it had need of doing. But by doing a 3 or 4-step program in 2, knowing how extreme the difference is between the style you're leaving and the style you wish to implement, there's a lot of unnecessary risk thrown in there that needn't have been when a halfway modification could serve to benefit the collective and not put so many noses out of joint.
If we get CL football, his job is safe and it'll be considered we've forced through a large portion of the transition to the desired styling and approach he wants. Most of this thread will be put to the side then as serious consideration will be put to what personnel we manage to get through the door. Complementary players for Kobbie and a much more mobile, pacey and athletic set of CB's being an absolute priority. We need our Stam/Rio savior type back there who gives the boost Van Dijk did to Liverpool's backline, to really modernise us and afford seamless stepping into midfield and absolutely no fear whatsoever of being done over the top via long balls- or on through balls - our players can't chase back on in those vaunted 1on1's.
I don't agree with what you wrote about LVG and it's ironic you wrote that and then went on to outline what ETH needs when it's a similar situation, reversed. LVG needed a couple of elite attackers to take his system to the next level. Gamebreakers who break up the mundane with magic whilst keeping the integrity of the structure watertight; his Robben (or 2) who there's little answer for in terms of containment plan. In the now, we need the same superstars at the back (the one superstar to the rule them all) and really special midfielders who not only complement Mainoo's game, but can push his and theirs along. We need midfielders that he doesn't have to hold back for or carry as they are as effortless as he is and just in need of partners and a platform to shine on.
So the need for unicorns is there, just shuffled around contrasted between the two managers and their requirements for progression.
The remainder of the season just got interesting again.
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My first reaction was: "Probably in the wrong topic."I love the positioning of this post in the thread. I was reading some interesting debates with lenghy-ish replies touching on academy players, midfielders, structure etc.. and then boom "Southgate can feck off"
For me, 70 points and a top 4 finish and a decent CL run (I don't think injuries excuse our CL performance in the slightest, we had a strong team out there in each and every CL game).
A domestic cup can be a cherry on top, FA Cup obviously holding much more weight than League Cup which is fairly minor, but league and CL are key.
We can still deliver top 4, and if we pull off an FA Cup win having beaten Liverpool and City it will somewhat compensate for CL disaster so it can still become a decent season.
Agree on this and the Mark Robins reference. It's what I was getting at with seeing a case for him staying after months of switching off entirely. You just captured it much better.
That has always been the easiest way to assess every manager post SAF. What do they do when the chips are down?
Only Ole "got it" (e.g. 1-3 in Paris) but the more under pressure he was the more he dithered with subs.
Let's see where ETH heads next, the FA Cup game(s) will be quite telling.
It's the kind of game our history is characterised by, even during our worst times pre-Fergie, so I think it's an energy and connection that hits different to the mundane and sensible win/loss rhetoric. Our games are supposed to leave imprints and have us be the talk of the nation and scourge of rival fans, so it was nice to have a smidgeon of that once more.
It's a shame international break has arrived just as we could have taken the euphoria and momentum to our next run of games - some of the energy about this place and within the players will have died down by the 30th, so let's see what the manager is made of in terms of the lightening rod and its remaining charge.
Would be a boon if we escape the international break without injuries and with the United lads having experienced wins and praise in the interim.
Wouldn't it be fun if we have harnessed the true spirit of the club at last and see out the season in that vein and impetus?
Agreed. I was excited about his reintegration into the team following his time out and thought he would give us that stability he had given us before, but he's gone backwards to the extent that I'm wondering if we should even play Amrabat. Not sure it's that desperate but his performance against Everton was definitely worrying.
Which season are you referring to?
(Please be referring to this season....
As desperate as you are I'm going to have to let you down. I was referring to last season and that's not an opinion.
A lot of noise at the moment that suggests he won't be the manager beyond May. I wanted him gone but if Southgate is the replacement then feck it, he can stay.
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