"players of their calibre"
You don't understand the concept of a team playing above the sum of its parts. That's Liverpool thanks to Klopp
We're the opposite, thanks to Ten Hag
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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You don't understand the concept of a team playing above the sum of its parts. That's Liverpool thanks to Klopp
We're the opposite, thanks to Ten Hag
Total rubbish. We need another 10 new players to replace the 5 or so ETH signed who have complete been duds.
His work at Ajax proved what exactly? His record at Ajax is almost identical to De Boers record save ONE CL campaign where they went 3 rounds further than usual. Did De Boer look like a competent coach at Palace?
I think if you have shit owners, you're likely to develop a shit squad irrespective of the manager. Ole himself said Ronaldo was a mistake, Cavani was a short term signing and Martial is pretty disabled now from football. Ten Hag inherited that plus no DM, which ironically, the people above him tried to fix with another stop gap signing - showing they have the memory of a goldfish and next to no competence.
I don't think Ten Hag name dropped Casemiro specifically, Athletic themselves confirmed he was a panic buy from Murtough and Rice would have been the smarter FFP play, but they didnt want to put out that initial outlay.
Generally speaking though, strikers and DMs aren't cheap. If you want to buy quality in both you will likely be looking at north of £150m, assuming you have no competent scouting system set up like ours currently.
Football heritage
Name 5 players that are duds from Ten Hag. I'm assuming you have the common sense to know loan dumpster dives aren't his optimal choices.
Everyone knows MU was one of the toughest biggest rebuilding jobs in football before Ten Hag started. It is delusion to think we should have rebuilt the team and the club structure by now.
The reorganization has barely started and we still have holes in the squad to plug, as well as players that need replacing.
Ten Hag maybe wishing he had listened to his friends and colleagues to not take the job.
Maybe the penny has finally dropped, he will be kept dangling on a string until the season is over. Sir Jim and his team have probably made the decision already, they just need to re budget for Europa or European Conference League.
If the new management team of O Berada, D Ashworth, J Wilcox and one other. They will have already formulated a plan with Sir Jim, Sir David and Jean Claude Blanc. There will be an acceptance that this manager has failed miserably this season in the CL and the PL and because of that there is a restricted budget this summer due to Europa League, so therefore more of a need to get huge earners like Varanne and Casemiro out of the club.
I can see Sancho coming back as there’s simply too much to do and no one paying his wages plus a new manager going to welcome him back. The fact that 5th place may qualify for CL and United will be probably nowhere near will be the final straw for INEOS. United fans should also be aware that Nice now occupy the European conference league position so United have to finish 6th or possibly 7th just to have European football next season.
Ineos and the new management structure want their own coach who is in the loop and let’s be honest ETH is definitely not in the loop. If he quits Ineos are happy as it saves them £10-15m in compensation.
If the new management team of O Berada, D Ashworth, J Wilcox and one other. They will have already formulated a plan with Sir Jim, Sir David and Jean Claude Blanc. There will be an acceptance that this manager has failed miserably this season in the CL and the PL and because of that there is a restricted budget this summer due to Europa League, so therefore more of a need to get huge earners like Varanne and Casemiro out of the club.
I can see Sancho coming back as there’s simply too much to do and no one paying his wages plus a new manager going to welcome him back. The fact that 5th place may qualify for CL and United will be probably nowhere near will be the final straw for INEOS. United fans should also be aware that Nice now occupy the European conference league position so United have to finish 6th or possibly 7th just to have European football next season.
Ineos and the new management structure want their own coach who is in the loop and let’s be honest ETH is definitely not in the loop. If he quits Ineos are happy as it saves them £10-15m in compensation.
Strange question seeing as everyone can predict the answers.
Antony, Amrabat, Mount, Malacia, Onana, (Eriksen and Casemiro are obviously duds now too)
And yes I will be including the £8m loan signing, equivalent to paying £40m for him on a 5 year contract, who we know was told United would be coming in for him since the start of the summer.
Ten Hag has proven to be a competent coach not only at Ajax, for fecks sake. He did plenty of amazing stuff here. Incredible how it took a few months to get fans turn on him so hardcore.
Yes, he made mistakes and criticism is often justified, but reading this thread is ridiculous experience. Many people are willing to deny every single positive he has brought to the club, just because they are mad. Incredible stuff.
Fingers crossed we beat Liverpool, can't wait to see what hatred will be spilled then.
Yes, he made mistakes and criticism is often justified, but reading this thread is ridiculous experience. Many people are willing to deny every single positive he has brought to the club, just because they are mad. Incredible stuff.
Fingers crossed we beat Liverpool, can't wait to see what hatred will be spilled then.
All clubs have injuries. Spurs themselves have had an injury crisis this season. Liverpool just won the LC & are going toe to toe with City right now with half their team missing. It’s just such a lazy excuse. We had what, 3 starters missing yesterday, and still struggled to a win against an Everton team who are winless since December. If your whole system relies so heavily on a couple of players, then your system is flawed.
And no, I don’t expect us to be amongst Liverpool, City or Arsenal yet. No one is making that argument. I do however expect us to be ahead of a Villa side that we’re facing relegation 18 months ago & a Spurs team that lost their best player, had their own injury crisis & hired a new manager in the summer. The fact that we’re closer to the likes of Wolves, West Ham & Brighton then we are Arsenal, City & Liverpool though, is inexcusable. Injuries or not.
Yeh cant wait to see us beat this makeshift Liverpool side who are on top of City right now despite an actual genuine injury crisis.
What did he do that was amazing again? Won the league cup and then played atrocious football with atrocious results ever since... right.
It’s absolutely laughable that people will still defend this. The cult of the manager is a weird one. Just ignore everything in front of your eyes and have blind faith.
He inherited a lousy squad that has probably got worse on his watch despite the investment of hundreds of millions
Would you say then that sacking OGS and hiring ETH was pointless since basically their hands are tied and we're now in a worse spot than we were when he was hired?
No it doesn't, ffs
It's the reality for most clubs with the exception of top clubs who dominate their leagues. Most clubs go through ups and downs every few years. That's why they make changes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We're just specially incompetent with recruitment of players and managers.Pretty much
Great, so from that you took a squad player who got bad luck with knee surgery, a goalkeeper who has actually settled now after a bad start, a midfielder wanted by Klopp & Arteta who is injured and a loan signing who wasnt the optimal choice had we actually had a budget for a midfielder.
This really summarises your level of understanding on transfers.
I'm all for slating Ten Hag on style of play and fully accept there is less and less on me to rest on as weeks go by and we fail to control games even with injury. However what I won't believe is the sheer lunacy to think that the recruitment issue isn't above him.
No, because Ten Hag is a coach and if OGS had this level of injuries I genuinely think we'd be worse than Chelsea.
Name one other top club where they've revamped the squad every 2-3 years and it looks worse each time.No it doesn't, ffs
The injury excuse is pathetic when you watch this makeshift Liverpool team outplaying City.
I don’t think his signings have all been terrible but let’s be honest here ;
If we were rating all of his signings including loans they would look something like this ;
Antony 1/10 (Absolute Shite!)
Weghorst 5/10 ( poor finisher, great work rate!)
Sabitzer 5/10 ( Too injury Proun but had his moments!
C Eriksen 6/10 (solid first season but legs have gone)
Casemiro 7/10 (great first season but legs are going!)
T Malacia 3/10 (looked suspect in first season and he’s disappeared off the Face of the planet)
S Reguilon 4/10( Tried hard but never United quality!)
S Anrabat 3/10 (looks way short of PL quality )
L Martinez 8/10 (looks a United player but would have spent 1 season out of 2 not being available!)
R Hojlund 8/10 (looks like the real deal and bought at the right age)
Jack Butland 3/10 (loaned him what for he was never used )
Martin Dubravka - 3/10 (why ? Played a couple of EFL cup games that got him cup tied )
A Bayinder - 4/10 (used once all season even when Onana was having nightmares)
A Onana - 4/10 ( Has improved recently but he’s at fault for our dismal CL elimination and at least 3 PL defeats)
M Mount - 3/10 (we could have signed an injury proun player for free but we have him the number 7 shirt, 250k per week and Chelsea £55m.
In what dimension do you consider ETH actual signings to be a success, he’s had a maximum of 3 out of 10 so far to be successful and when you are paying £10m loan fees for Amrabat and £8m for Sabitzer you have to include them too !
Even with injuries, a team can still be set up not to concede so many chances and be so easy to play through and counter.
Why can’t people see this? It was questionable at first, but by now? It’s embarrassing to still be defending what he has produced this season under the guise of “injuries”
His tactics are absolutely clueless and the stats show that very clearly. Thankfully, INEOS won’t be as negligent as certain posters in here.
Why can’t people see this? It was questionable at first, but by now? It’s embarrassing to still be defending what he has produced this season under the guise of “injuries”
His tactics are absolutely clueless and the stats show that very clearly. Thankfully, INEOS won’t be as negligent as certain posters in here.
If ETH was at any other club of concern to us, we’d be all hoping he got an extension and wasn’t sacked. Not one United fan would look at his body of work and be thinking that club would cause us any worries under him.
For the 100th fecking time, Ten Hag never requested sole ownership of transfers. The fact that he's been exposed into a position that is more than what he signed up for in the transfer front shows there is a massive structural issue at the club - which is also why ever manager before signed big flops too. Shitty transfer business isn't unique to Eric Ten Hag. Happened under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole.
Ten Hag's wish for a veto and being in the room for transfer strategy only works if we have an actual structure to overlay his suggestions with ones of our own. This is a club that signed Diallo without telling Ole what the fee was, and making him think it was an academy player until saying it's for the first XI
It's a structure that thought "feck it, lets get Casemiro" instead of Rice because they didn't want to fork out as much of an initial outlay. It's a structure that knows Hojlund is £52m but still rock in and drop £76m for banter. There is so much wrong with that structure, that no manager in Ten Hag's place will recruit without a mixed bag.
This makeshift Liverpool team shows what a manager can do
Transfers are a pretty rubbish way to dig at ten Hag. We've been run by clowns, and the awful transfers are on them.
He should go because we've played awful football with no sense of progress now for an entire year, to the extent we're flattered in 6th place.
He should go because we've played awful football with no sense of progress now for an entire year, to the extent we're flattered in 6th place.
It's not even the first example of a team with lots of injuries still playing well. We got battered by Newcastle when they had half their squad injured. We lost to Fulham when they had their two best players out.
Not even sure why United fans need to be told this. Ferguson had to deal with an injury list worse than Ten Hag on several occasions. We were still competitive. We beat Arsenal with a midfield made up of defenders.
Bottom line is the excuses for Ten Hag are bullshit. Most of us know this but a handful of lunatics force us to go around in circles repeating it
A team that includes a bunch of players they paid tons of money for "makeshift". Okay.
City without KDB are losing at least two levels of quality.
This proves how ONE key player changes everything.
Now, remind me, how many injuries to key players did we have this season?
City without KDB are losing at least two levels of quality.
This proves how ONE key player changes everything.
Now, remind me, how many injuries to key players did we have this season?
Feck Him and I hope he fecks off to oblivion. Man has been poor for us and we will have to start rebuilding when he fecks off. His signings did not show any thoughts to how he wants to play and close to two years in we are still shite at keeping the ball. Fecking Everton keeps the ball better than us.For the 100th fecking time, Ten Hag never requested sole ownership of transfers. The fact that he's been exposed into a position that is more than what he signed up for in the transfer front shows there is a massive structural issue at the club - which is also why ever manager before signed big flops too. Shitty transfer business isn't unique to Eric Ten Hag. Happened under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole.
Ten Hag's wish for a veto and being in the room for transfer strategy only works if we have an actual structure to overlay his suggestions with ones of our own. This is a club that signed Diallo without telling Ole what the fee was, and making him think it was an academy player until saying it's for the first XI
It's a structure that thought "feck it, lets get Casemiro" instead of Rice because they didn't want to fork out as much of an initial outlay. It's a structure that knows Hojlund is £52m but still rock in and drop £76m for banter. There is so much wrong with that structure, that no manager in Ten Hag's place will recruit without a mixed bag.
Blame everyone but the man that signed most of the players he knew quite well.
Exactly and ETH is a million miles from that level of motivation, he just seems to wind them up with ridiculous patterns of play and on field formations that leave the defence exposed even against moderate opposition!
And results dropped for Spurs too. I remember the glee on this forum when 'Ange ball' stopped because Spurs were getting way too many compliments at the start of the season. Then injuries happend for Spurs and Spurs started losing more and more. Liverpool have a system and their players can play in that. Also, Klopp is a better manager than ETH. Last season Liverpool results did suffer a lot because of their injuries. So it isnt like only Manchester United is the only club where the results take a nosedive when injuries happen.
I think it also depends on which players are getting injured. Martinez is, in my opinion, the most important defender. Not just for his defending but also his ball playing, that just helps the team and the midfield so much. Shaw is the second most important for that and both have missed a lot of games. Harry Maguire, Jonny Evans and Lindelof replace them but they arent anywhere near the quality or the same type of player as Martinez and Shaw. Liverpool losing Virgil van Dijk made a big difference. Missing Andy Robertson less so.
An injury to Hojlund means we have no striker. Injured Casemiro means McT has to play. It is not just injuries but they are injuries to the best and most important players. Players for whom there isnt really any quality replacement. If there is any replacement that replacement is also injured like Martial and Malacia.
Villa has some really good players. Players who would start for Manchester United. They should never been near relegation. The only reason they were is because they had a terrible manager. The moment Gerrard was kicked out Villa starting winning a lot of games. Also, there was no struggle against Everton at all. It was boring but it was quite an easy win.
Not saying ETH is the perfect manager or that he has to stay at all cost. However, the claim that injuries shouldnt be taken into consideration is unfair. He has been really unlucky with all the injuries.
Who are those duds?
Onana (he’s having a good first season)
Martinez (good signing)
Hojlund (good signing)
Mount (injured, no comment)
Casemiro (ten hag wanted De Jong, but Casemiro have more good games than bad ones)
Malacia (had some good games, but injured. Gonna be foolish to write him off)
Anthony (agree, seems a dud)
Ten hag also gave a change to Garnacho and Kobbie,
Do you want me to list all the duds ten hag inherited?
Won cup in his first season (our 1 trophy in 6 years), reached another cup final, semi-final of Europa league, finished 3rd in the league, still in this seasons fa-cup, in with a shout of finishing inside the top four this season.
To build a successful team, it starts from the bottom to the top as that is what Pep is getting at Man City. Man City planned all this prior to Pep arrival with Txiki and Soriano. Pellegrini was a stop gap before arrival of Pep. The seed was planted earlier and when Pep arrived, he continues to harvest. Of course, his first season, he made mistake, like buying Bravo. But with Man Utd for the past 10 years, everything is just disorganized. We have been a poisoned challice since Fergie left. There is no proper planning. The example is there in our rival. There is no shame to follow and emulate if it bring success to the club.
As I said, it would take years to completely rebuild crippled United. I believe Ten Hag working under the likes of Omar Berrada, Dan Ashworth & Jason Wilcox he's gonna thrive. That's all that's needed a proper structure & now INEOS are doing just that we will be right up there once again. I cannot wait to see everything taking shape under a new era.
Not just a manager. One of the best in the world. Klopp can do more with his selection than most other managers. Just like how SAF was able to win title after title with some fairly mediocre players in his squad.
That may be true but does it mean we just accept knowing the manger we have is not good enough and can’t or will never be able to do that
Funnily enough, Klopp last season got pretty much what wel be on course to get this season. It's almost like managers can have off seasons eh
Big difference is Klopp has credit in the bank. Ten Hag does not.
Yep, I've been critical of Ten Hag and don't think he should or will be the manager next year but I'm not sure Klopp is a fair barometer for what Ten Hag should be doing. As you say he has an ability to extract performances from players who don't seem that good that I haven't seen since Ferguson. Klopp and Guardiola are in a class of their own, the key for us is finding the best option available.
Ten Hag was a reasonable punt (I was in favour in gambling on him rather than going for the safer but unspectacular Pochettino) but the evidence suggests he probably isn't the best option available.
Should give Klopp a call and ask him how to manage an injured squad without falling to absolute pieces and getting shit on by City. In a sense, how to do his job.
Thing is, we're still shit even without injuries, so it hardly matters
Ten Hag had some credit after the achievements last season but I will accept that sentiment, broadly speaking.
My point is more that top managers are capable of off seasons.
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