Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Woziak said:
I don’t think his signings have all been terrible but let’s be honest here ;
If we were rating all of his signings including loans they would look something like this ;

Antony 1/10 (Absolute Shite!)
Weghorst 5/10 ( poor finisher, great work rate!)
Sabitzer 5/10 ( Too injury Proun but had his moments!
C Eriksen 6/10 (solid first season but legs have gone)
Casemiro 7/10 (great first season but legs are going!)
T Malacia 3/10 (looked suspect in first season and he’s disappeared off the Face of the planet)
S Reguilon 4/10( Tried hard but never United quality!)
S Anrabat 3/10 (looks way short of PL quality )
L Martinez 8/10 (looks a United player but would have spent 1 season out of 2 not being available!)
R Hojlund 8/10 (looks like the real deal and bought at the right age)
Jack Butland 3/10 (loaned him what for he was never used )
Martin Dubravka - 3/10 (why ? Played a couple of EFL cup games that got him cup tied )
A Bayinder - 4/10 (used once all season even when Onana was having nightmares)
A Onana - 4/10 ( Has improved recently but he’s at fault for our dismal CL elimination and at least 3 PL defeats)
M Mount - 3/10 (we could have signed an injury proun player for free but we have him the number 7 shirt, 250k per week and Chelsea £55m.


In what dimension do you consider ETH actual signings to be a success, he’s had a maximum of 3 out of 10 so far to be successful and when you are paying £10m loan fees for Amrabat and £8m for Sabitzer you have to include them too !
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That is very very harsh. I would only consider Antony a failed signing but that happens to every manager. To put in emergency loans like Weghorst, Amrabat and Butland to make ETH look worse is way too easy. 8m or 10m isnt that much for signing a squad option. The Glazers take out more in interest.

Malacia looked like a decent option. Not yet starting quality but he was cheap and had a good game against Salah for example. He picks up an injury and is now a 3/10 signing? I dont think ETH is to blame for an injury to a player that has no history of injuries anyway. Just bad luck. Butland was signed to sit on the bench incase an injury occured. No injury to DDG so Butland didnt have to play. Butland did his job of sitting on the bench, he did what was expected off him. How is that a 3/10? Same goes for Dubravka.

For Weghorst, was there a better option to sign? Just like Sabitzer. They filled in when needed. They werent good enough to be starters but what other options do you have halfway during the season? They were squad options. Sabitzer even had his moments as you claim, a squad player having his moments. Seems like a good squad player to me. Eriksen came on a free and was a starter for a season. How is that a bad or just okay deal? Reguilon came to be the back up because the first back up is injured. I actually wished he stayed, i didnt think he was too bad. All these reserve goalkeepers were signed to sit on the bench. How are they bad signings if they do exactly what they were signed to do?

Onana is improving, he was bad in the CL but claiming he is at fault for atleast 3 PL defeats is just not true. He didnt stop some attempts that a prime DDG might have stopped one or two off but he didnt make massive errors causing defeats in the PL.

Mount you can call a failure. I dont think it is fair and im willing to wait until he gets fit and actually plays games. I reserve my opinion for that moment but if you want to call an injured player a failed signing it is technically true. He didnt improve the team. That he wears the 7 shirt isnt really relevant though.
 
VP89 said:
Great, so from that you took a squad player who got bad luck with knee surgery, a goalkeeper who has actually settled now after a bad start, a midfielder wanted by Klopp & Arteta who is injured and a loan signing who wasnt the optimal choice had we actually had a budget for a midfielder.

This really summarises your level of understanding on transfers.

I'm all for slating Ten Hag on style of play and fully accept there is less and less on me to rest on as weeks go by and we fail to control games even with injury. However what I won't believe is the sheer lunacy to think that the recruitment issue isn't above him.
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Are there many levels to understanding our transfers now? :lol:

Amrabat was Hags optimal choice. He just didnt have the funds for a full transfer. Klopp signed MacAllister, Endo, Szob and Gravenberch all for relatively lower outlays than Amrabat's loan fee. MacAllister and Gravenberch especially were heavily scouted and well known to the club and to ETH.

But we went for Mount and Amrabat because that was Hag's choice. Take injuries out of it, nobody understood the Mount transfer before it went through. No one understood it in the first few games where the system, and his performances in the system, were horrid. Nobody understood it in the brief interlude between his injuries. And if he does ever get over being crocked, and Hag avoids the sack somehow, we'll go on not understanding why he spent £60m on a player who he keeps on the bench and repeatedly selects McTominay ahead of.
 
RORY65 said:
Yep, I've been critical of Ten Hag and don't think he should or will be the manager next year but I'm not sure Klopp is a fair barometer for what Ten Hag should be doing. As you say he has an ability to extract performances from players who don't seem that good that I haven't seen since Ferguson. Klopp and Guardiola are in a class of their own, the key for us is finding the best option available.

Ten Hag was a reasonable punt (I was in favour in gambling on him rather than going for the safer but unspectacular Pochettino) but the evidence suggests he probably isn't the best option available.
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Agree. Klopp might just be the best at making players look better. We know that Guardiola can make good and great players play amazing but we havent seen him make 'normal' players like Wijnaldum, Milner or Matip win big titles. Klopp might be in a league of his own in that aspect of managing players.

Then again, last season Liverpool wasnt very good until the end of the season. Even Klopp can struggle when he has injuries.
 
Woziak said:
Maybe the penny has finally dropped, he will be kept dangling on a string until the season is over. Sir Jim and his team have probably made the decision already, they just need to re budget for Europa or European Conference League.


If the new management team of O Berada, D Ashworth, J Wilcox and one other. They will have already formulated a plan with Sir Jim, Sir David and Jean Claude Blanc. There will be an acceptance that this manager has failed miserably this season in the CL and the PL and because of that there is a restricted budget this summer due to Europa League, so therefore more of a need to get huge earners like Varanne and Casemiro out of the club.

I can see Sancho coming back as there’s simply too much to do and no one paying his wages plus a new manager going to welcome him back. The fact that 5th place may qualify for CL and United will be probably nowhere near will be the final straw for INEOS. United fans should also be aware that Nice now occupy the European conference league position so United have to finish 6th or possibly 7th just to have European football next season.

Ineos and the new management structure want their own coach who is in the loop and let’s be honest ETH is definitely not in the loop. If he quits Ineos are happy as it saves them £10-15m in compensation.
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Although I agree with you that ETH must go, this contradicts what Sir Jim has been saying in public. He says Champions League football is important for FFP yet is fine to allow ETH to further torpedo the season as we're 11 points behind fourth. It makes no sense, either get rid and bring someone in who will get some results, especially as managers actually are available now, or as you say; rebudget. It's frustrating.
 
VP89 said:
No, because Ten Hag is a coach and if OGS had this level of injuries I genuinely think we'd be worse than Chelsea.
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So a manager/coach makes a big difference and if one is underperforming we should be looking to replace. Shame about the injury excuse.

VP89 said:
Name one other top club where they've revamped the squad every 2-3 years and it looks worse each time.
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But that's not what happens. We don't revamp the squad every 2-3 years, it's a gradual process with ups and downs. We're just not a top club anymore due to how poorly we're run with bad recruitment and bad managerial appointments. When we stop comparing ourselves to Bayern or Real Madrid we can see that we're not special. What's happening at the club is not a special case, we're just not very good.
 
Leftback99 said:
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Nothing new to be honest. You dont need a billion to spend and 6 years for good football. I can guarantee you we would still play worse than City, Liverpool and Arsenal under ETH. He just isnt good enough. Individual brilliance only gets you so far
 
hobbers said:
Are there many levels to understanding our transfers now? :lol:

Amrabat was Hags optimal choice. He just didnt have the funds for a full transfer. Klopp signed MacAllister, Endo, Szob and Gravenberch all for relatively lower outlays than Amrabat's loan fee.
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And this highlights your logic :lol:
Klopp has data scientists and scouts to help with his targets and Ten Hag has feck all. And Gravenberch, Mac alister and Szob were all more expensive than the Amrabat loan fee.

You really do love making things up.
 
Stadjer said:
Agree. Klopp might just be the best at making players look better. We know that Guardiola can make good and great players play amazing but we havent seen him make 'normal' players like Wijnaldum, Milner or Matip win big titles. Klopp might be in a league of his own in that aspect of managing players.

Then again, last season Liverpool wasnt very good until the end of the season. Even Klopp can struggle when he has injuries.
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How quickly he rebuilt the team is amazing. One season plus a summer. The last time Fergie rebuilt the team took three years.
 
VP89 said:
Ten Hag had some credit after the achievements last season but I will accept that sentiment, broadly speaking.

My point is more that top managers are capable of off seasons.
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He really doesn't. Klopp won a league, went to two champions league finals and won one of them.

More than credit in the bank, Liverpool fans had already seen how his football could succeed in the Premier League. They had seen his team create lots of chances and them dominate so many games. United have not seen that with Ten Haag. It's a big disingenous to compare them. it's like SAF having a bad season and using that to compare him with Avram Grant. Liverpool fans didn't question Klopp because they knew he could get them playing good football. For a statistical comparison, last season, they scored 75 goals, with a +28 goal difference, 58% possession, shooting 15.9 times per game and facing 9.8 shots per game. By almost every metric, they played well, but lost games.\

In comparison, United have a goal difference of 0, scoring a paltry 39 times ( with 10 games to go), holding 51% possession per game, shooting 14.4 times and facing 16.7 shots. By the metrics, we're actually overperforming our position. You can't compare that.
 
Stadjer said:
Agree. Klopp might just be the best at making players look better. We know that Guardiola can make good and great players play amazing but we havent seen him make 'normal' players like Wijnaldum, Milner or Matip win big titles. Klopp might be in a league of his own in that aspect of managing players.

Then again, last season Liverpool wasnt very good until the end of the season. Even Klopp can struggle when he has injuries.
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Also a fair point, it's definitely not been perfect for them all the time under him.
 
city-puma said:
How quickly he rebuilt the team is amazing. One season plus a summer. The last time Fergie rebuilt the team took three years.
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He also got quite lucky to be fair. Reports say that he wanted to sign Brandt but Liverpool gave him Salah. Brandt became a fairly good player for a good German team while Salah became the best in the world at his position. If only something like that happend to ETH when Antony was signed :lol:
 
izec said:
Would be good. Wont need to sack him and we could save money. But he wont walk. He wants the money, they all do
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I'd rather him be sacked now so we can get either a careraker or the ineos manager in now to improve results. They have said we need to be in the champions league for FFP so they better start making moves to get that.
 
VP89 said:
And this highlights your logic :lol:
Klopp has data scientists and scouts to help with his targets and Ten Hag has feck all. And Gravenberch, Mac alister and Szob were all more expensive than the Amrabat loan fee.

You really do love making things up.
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Who told you that Ten Hag doesn't have scouts and data scientists? Why do you feel the need to lie post after post?
 
VP89 said:
And this highlights your logic :lol:
Klopp has data scientists and scouts to help with his targets and Ten Hag has feck all. And Gravenberch, Mac alister and Szob were all more expensive than the Amrabat loan fee.

You really do love making things up.
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Just embarrassing yourself now.

They were all cheaper than Amrabat because his loan fee is no different to pumping money into a black hole. Whereas they all have book values and sell on potential. Probably too complicated for you.
 
VP89 said:
And this highlights your logic :lol:
Klopp has data scientists and scouts to help with his targets and Ten Hag has feck all. And Gravenberch, Mac alister and Szob were all more expensive than the Amrabat loan fee.

You really do love making things up.
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:lol:

Come on, mate. You don't really believe this? Are you related to Erik, by any chance?
 
Stadjer said:
He also got quite lucky to be fair. Reports say that he wanted to sign Brandt but Liverpool gave him Salah. Brandt became a fairly good player for a good German team while Salah became the best in the world at his position. If only something like that happend to ETH when Antony was signed :lol:
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It could be luck but the reality is that luck seems more likely favoring the capable people, right?
Salah is the catalyst, definitely, but it’s hard to say, without him, they won’t get to where they are.
The biggest issue about ETH for me is that his grand plan and vision might not work at all (actually no one really knows what it is I guess).
 
The Mitcher said:
Is he now resorting to lying? Dear god :lol:
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Dominic Jordan is Manchester United head of data science, he has been around for three years. Murtough's speciality is data science that's what he was doing before he even joined Everton. And we quite obviously have a scouting department.
 
JPRouve said:
Dominic Jordan is Manchester United head of data science, he has been around for three years. Murtough's speciality is data science that's what he was doing before he even joined Everton. And we quite obviously have a scouting department.
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I know right?
 
To be fair I've been very critical of Hag but I never realised he was a one man transfer band.

Scouting all the players, doing all the analytics, meeting the agents, negotiating the deals, balancing the books, finding the players accommodation and even schools for their kids. What a guy. :lol:

No wonder his gameplans and tactics and game management are all so abysmal, must always be jetlagged from the dozen scouting trips he takes every week.
 
city-puma said:
It could be luck but the reality is that luck seems more likely favoring the capable people, right?
Salah is the catalyst, definitely, but it’s hard to say, without him, they won’t get to where they are.
The biggest issue about ETH for me is that his grand plan and vision might not work at all (actually no one really knows what it is I guess).
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Oh, ofcourse it is. It is just that Klopp himself doesnt always gets it perfectly.

From what i am reading here above too, Liverpool/Klopp wanted Amrabat but they couldnt get him so they got Endo. Manchester United did manage to sign Amrabat. Turns out that the first option for both teams is doing worse than Liverpool their second (?) or lower option. I would call that luck. Or it is Klopp his magic that makes Endo better. Maybe Amrabat would have looked better for Liverpool too.
 
hobbers said:
To be fair I've been very critical of Hag but I never realised he was a one man transfer band.

Scouting all the players, doing all the analytics, meeting the agents, negotiating the deals, balancing the books, finding the players accommodation and even schools for their kids. What a guy. Super Hag. :lol:

No wonder his gameplans and tactics and game management are all so abysmal, must always be jetlagged from the dozen scouting trips he takes every week.
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But somehow, he is also not responsible for the signings or anything related to the club. How can he be in charge of everything but also responsible for nothing? The defense makes no sense.
 
The Mitcher said:
Source?
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Im sure if you google Mount + Liverpool you will get results. Who really knows who was first option and second option. Only Klopp and some higher ups at Liverpool i would imagine. I do think Klopp would have liked Mason Mount in his squad. Mount can run a lot, press well (when he is fit atleast) but also has quality on the ball. He would suit Klopp his team and style of play very well.
 
JPRouve said:
Who told you that Ten Hag doesn't have scouts and data scientists? Why do you feel the need to lie post after post?
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Our head scouts were sacked with everything else going into Murtough. Our targets were well briefed. Don't try and tell me I'm lying when I say our structure in recruitment wasn't near as good as Liverpool.
 
Imagine being able to field a completely decimated starting xi, and not only make them perform better than the sum of their parts, but actually put the supposed best team in the world to the sword, playing dynamic, aggressive, attacking football.

It's like watching a different sport.
 
crossy1686 said:
I’m certainly not a Southgate fan but the team INEOS seem to be building have worked with Southgate before at England and have helped create an environment where England could make the most of what they have. You would hope that if he does come in it would be short term to improve the standards and atmosphere.
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If Southgate is appointed United manager I might just stop watching United after 23 years.
 
mav_9me said:
If Southgate is appointed United manager I might just stop watching United after 23 years.
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Oh lord don't. England will never win anything with Southgate in charge so you can forget about United winning anything with him in charge.
 
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