Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber
Thus says Kemo
And you believed him?
I'm not denying we had a bad performance in the CL and blame our manager more in that regard.
However we have had say 3 out of 4 first choice defenders out, then the back ups and in some cases the backups to the backups. Whilst also navigating injuries in other areas of the pitch, so it's not always as comparable.
Adidas branded waistcoasts in red.
Arsenal did not have a far worse crisis in defence that season. They may have had a difficult period in the champions league group stages but not for the whole season.Arsenal was just an example that came to mind of a team who had a far, far worse (beyond comparison) crisis in their defense and fared much better.
No, it's not tactical. His emergency defenders are all slow, and sink back naturally, despite needing to be further up the pitch.We don't look open because of the defensive injuries though, it's more because there is so much space between the lines. Carraghee summed it up by saying we play a high press and low block. That is tactical, and isn't necessarily solved by players coming back from injury
I laughed at this more than I should haveThat's your best analogy??
Then shouldn’t Ten Hag correct it and have the attacking players drop deeper when he’s seeing the same pattern game after game?No, it's not tactical. His emergency defenders are all slow, and sink back naturally, despite needing to be further up the pitch.
Our positioning was no way near this bad with licha and Shaw. The likelihood here is that they are not following instructions because they are not capable to execute that style. Ten hag has also hinted his in the post match, that we are dropping our principles mid game.
Ten Hag's sides have generally never been so open in his career, so for you to assume that he suddenly doing it now by design and not be a symptom of bad injuries is massively flawed.
Injuries are not the reason we look so open against any opposition. Baffling that anyone still thinks so.
It's not completely wrong, but it's a bit short sighted. Yes, if you have to play for example Maguire instead of Martinez your defense will drop deeper and your setup will look more broken, that part is true. But that only happens when the team keeps trying the same tactical setup. So it's more like EtH's refusal to really change to mitigate the effect of the injuries instead of the injuries themselves that make the team more open.Injuries are not the reason we look so open against any opposition. Baffling that anyone still thinks so.
There's an argument for this, and I agree certain runs demanded it, for example our CL run needed more pragmatism, and so did certain games such as say the loss to Bournemouth. However there are certain other games where he was pragmatic & safe enough, and we still lost. Arsenal, and West Ham away for example.Then shouldn’t Ten Hag correct it and have the attacking players drop deeper when he’s seeing the same pattern game after game?
If Lampard, Southgate and Potter are INEOS best options, we're in for another 10 years of hurt.
Bring back the Glazers.
If Lampard, Southgate and Potter are INEOS best options, we're in for another 10 years of hurt.
Bring back the Glazers.
I dunno, seemed to work for me in PES 2018. Put gegenpress on but Defense was set to deep defensive line (or all out defense? I forgot) and very compact.This. Playing high press while defending with a low block simultaneously is just goddamn stupid. How on earth ETH thinks this will work is just a head scratcher. The best analogy I can give is like when you try to take a shit while you pee standing up. I mean it could probably work once in a while but the result will always be messy shit.
The period I was referring to was Champions League knockout games against Real Madrid, Juventus and Villarreal in which they did not concede a single goal and their defense at the time was Eboue (who played 1 game prior to that season), Toure (first choice), Senderos (young, inexperienced and not a good player) and Flamini (not even a left back, played mostly as an utility midfielder prior to that season). It's actually a perfect example of a team having to get by with a makeshift defense and change their shape to not expose their weaknesses. It's actually ridiculous to think that that defense had any right to be as good as they were. Obviously helped by the fact they had Gilberto and Vieira in front of them.Arsenal did not have a far worse crisis in defence that season. They may have had a difficult period in the champions league group stages but not for the whole season.
Not actually sure they don't care. Think it is more the tactics make it hard for them to perform or they haven't a clue what he is expecting them to do.Players are putting in the performance equivalent of sticking their willy on his shoulder behind his back and pouring a beer over his head to try to humiliate him and they're still the first names on the team sheet. He deals with egos, he doesn't deal with those who clearly through their attitude on the pitch, do not respect him or the club.
There is no performance standard low enough for him to remove someone from the team. Given how poor we've been, that by itself is astonishing and probably untenable. He isn't responsible for players downing tools. He is responsible for the players that have downed tools being the first name on the team sheet every week. And I don't get it. It's why we're such a fragile team, defeated when we fall behind and struggle to keep our head above water when we get in front and have habit of capitulating in the final 15 minutes of games.
Nobody cares. Walk around the pitch, but as long as you set your alarm to be up in time to attend a team meeting you're immovable from the starting line up? Sorry I can't accept that.
And you believed him?
This is flat out wrong. United’s injuries this season have truly reached mythical status round here.Arsenal did not have a far worse crisis in defence that season. They may have had a difficult period in the champions league group stages but not for the whole season.
As I said, arsenal did not have the extended run that we had missing first choice players, backups and their back ups.The period I was referring to was Champions League knockout games against Real Madrid, Juventus and Villarreal in which they did not concede a single goal and their defense at the time was Eboue (who played 1 game prior to that season), Toure (first choice), Senderos (young, inexperienced and not a good player) and Flamini (not even a left back, played mostly as an utility midfielder prior to that season). It's actually a perfect example of a team having to get by with a makeshift defense and change their shape to not expose their weaknesses. It's actually ridiculous to think that that defense had any right to be as good as they were. Obviously helped by the fact they had Gilberto and Vieira in front of them.
We have had it tough with Martinez and Shaw out for most of the season, and having to play Evans at times, but even then we've still largely been able to field senior, experienced players in most games and not have to rely on 3 youngsters, one of whom was not even playing in his correct position.
Feel free to share the data.This is flat out wrong. United’s injuries this season have truly reached mythical status round here.
Terrible names to be linked toAnd you believed him?
As I said, arsenal did not have the extended run that we had missing first choice players, backups and their back ups.
Maguire, Lindelof and Evans are nor capable of churning out play in line with a progressive system on a consistent basis. Arsenal didn't have to play equivalent square pegs in left back akin to Lindelof and Amrabat.
This is flat out wrong. United’s injuries this season have truly reached mythical status round here.
This is flat out wrong. United’s injuries this season have truly reached mythical status round here.
We've apparently played 21 different back fours in 27 games with six different left backs.
There was a period where Reguilon was out for 5 weeks or so. Lindelof underwent surgery this season and is not 100%, Maguire has had 2 spells out from the first team with injury. Varane has been more available of late, but that's only because we exited all of our cups and have 1 week between games.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof and Reguilon (whom we had for half a season) are all experienced internationals who have hundreds of PL games between them. It's definitely preferable to have them available for most of the time than have to play three youngsters with virtually no experience.
If they are not capable of playing this setup, then the setup is quite obviously wrong for the players we have. It's manager's job to ensure that this does not happen.
I don't know what you consider as extended run but going through 3 knockout rounds with this setup does seem like an 'extended run' to me. It's basically 3-4 months of football during crucial stages of European competition. They faced Juventus, Real Madrid and Villarreal with that setup and conceded no goals.
As for the bolded, Flamini was exactly that. He was a midfielder (not perceived as a very good one at the time) who slotted in at left back.
That is quite clearly untrue. The only 'meddling' you can make a case for is Amrabat vs Lindelof at LB. And even that is a worse of two evils relative to the opponent's XI.I think part of that was not forced though but rather meddling with the squad too much even when we had players healthy. We've gone through a period when we refused to play Varane at all, we had games where we had Reguilon available but still did not play him despite him being our only natural left back. Dalot and Varane have been largely available, Maguire and Lindelof have mostly had short term injuries.
What are you talking about?Feel free to share the data.
Yeah I don't see how it can get worse than playing Eboue, Senderos and Flamini, all of them below 21, against Real Madrid and Juventus.
We've mostly had two of Maguire, Varane and Lindelof to choose from for CB, have had Dalot at right back available most season and had Reguilon available at left back for most of the first few months, with Wan-Bissaka coming and going. We've mostly been able to field a senior defense with players playing in their preferred positions, bar some exceptions like playing Kambwala at West Ham, or putting Lindelof at left back in recent games.
Don't get me wrong, Martinez and Shaw are big misses, especially if you are trying to play with the ball more, but it's not like we've had to pull random players from youth teams all season. It's just pretty apparent we don't have tactical flexibility to change our ways when the personnel does not allow us to play a certain way. It's a very concerning thing.
We've been plagued with injury all season not only to 3/4s of our defence, but also their back ups (and in some cases the back-up's backup). We have had prolonged periods (weeks/months) playing 4th and 5th choice players, out of position too. This is before we consider injuries in the striker position and the midfield position.What are you talking about?
We don't play like we did under Ole. We play a lot more open than that. People here want us to play like we did under Ole because that keeps us more secure at the back.The issue for me, is we still play the same way we did under Ole, which is criminal, even if Pep/Klopp had these injuries, someone would slot in and they would continue the way they play.
You’ve been given all that info, you just don’t like the answer.We've been plagued with injury all season not only to 3/4s of our defence, but also their back ups (and in some cases the back-up's backup). We have had prolonged periods playing 4th and 5th choice players, out of position too. This is before we consider injuries in the striker position and the midfield position.
I want to know how Arsenal's injury crisis was worse and what the duration was for, in that season.
Again, can you share the data. Peering over to Wiki it appears you also called upon Sol Cambell for 20 PL apps, Lauren for 22 apps. This is a long time ago but even if we consider you had similar defensive struggles it's not exactly much of a point considering you finished with about the same level of points we'd be on track for.You’ve been given all that info, you just don’t like the answer.
We played Flamini, Toure, Senderos and Clichy in the knockout rounds of the CL all the way up to the final. The also played in the PL that entire time. That’s nearly half of the season without an entire threadbare back line.
So you’ve confirmed that we had a threadbare back line for nearly half a season?Again, can you share the data. Peering over to Wiki it appears you also called upon Sol Cambell for 20 PL apps, Lauren for 22 apps. This is a long time ago but even if we consider you had similar defensive struggles it's not exactly much of a point considering you finished with about the same level of points we'd be on track for.
I don't know if you've followed my posts nearly as well enough. I have already stated our CL performances were not good enough, I don't know why the CL is being crowbarred into what I'm referring to which is domestic season form.So you’ve confirmed that we had a threadbare back line for nearly half a season?
And you don’t think it’s much of a point that that back four got Arsenal to the CL Final, shutting out Real Madrid and Juventus and setting a record for the fewest knockout round goals conceded that still stands today?
You don’t even see the tiniest bit of difference between the two scenarios?
Most of these injuries should have been anticipated, already existed or where suffered during the ridiculous pre-seasonWe've been plagued with injury all season not only to 3/4s of our defence, but also their back ups (and in some cases the back-up's backup). We have had prolonged periods (weeks/months) playing 4th and 5th choice players, out of position too. This is before we consider injuries in the striker position and the midfield position.
I want to know how Arsenal's injury crisis was worse and what the duration was for, in that season.