Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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acnumber9 said:
How do you know what other options were presented to Ten Hag?
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There was a deep dive into transfer dealings and the briefings at the time of transfers too shows what was being proposed.

For example when we went for Hojlund, Romano mentioned alternatives provided were Goncalo Ramos and Kolo Muani. The latter two by the club and the manager pushing for the former.

The Athletic wrote that our club could only muster Pau Torres and I think one other defender instead of Licha. And the manager again, made the right and better call for Licha.

Moreover when ten hag asked for a defensive midfielder reinforcement, we had the option of Rice or Casemiro. And we opted for Casemiro as the initial outlay was less, even though in FFP terms it hurts us more.

With Antony it was reported Gakpo was the alternative, ironically he too was a ten hag name. He had no support on any alternative from the club.
 
Thomas Frank? Southgate? Let's tear it all down and start again because what on earth.
 
VP89 said:
The point I'm making is we should have scouts putting better targets on the table (which they didn't).

If our strategy is punting on who ten hag wants, then we should be prepared for flops. And once we have established there are a couple of flops, we should not berate Ten Hag for it.

He asked for a say in transfers and being in the room for overall strategy, not being a one man show.
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At the end of the day we are hoping that the manager of a football club will understand their player's qualities and shortcomings otherwise how can they possibly do their job!

I am not saying that somebody should not have blocked Antony, but it seems you want to exonerate ETH from all responsibility?

The point is that we have a manager who is clearly a poor judge of players of whom they have extensive knowledge, that to me is incredibly damning and concerning, and explains a lot about how poorly we have been set up to play and the inept tactics, formations and substitutions he has employed.
 
VP89 said:
There was a deep dive into transfer dealings and the briefings at the time of transfers too shows what was being proposed.

For example when we went for Hojlund, Romano mentioned alternatives provided were Goncalo Ramos and Kolo Muani. The latter two by the club and the manager pushing for the former.

The Athletic wrote that our club could only muster Pau Torres and I think one other defender instead of Licha. And the manager again, made the right and better call for Licha.

Moreover when ten hag asked for a defensive midfielder reinforcement, we had the option of Rice or Casemiro. And we opted for Casemiro as the initial outlay was less, even though in FFP terms it hurts us more.

With Antony it was reported Gakpo was the alternative, ironically he too was a ten hag name. He had no support on any alternative from the club.
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The Athletic said Murtough also recommended Gvardiol and Bastoni but ETH went for Martinez.
 
UpWithRivers said:
So to sum up.
1) Transfers not down to ETH and anyway they were all great bar Antony but that wasn't his fault. He told them Antony wasnt worth 80 mill but was overruled
2) This seasons failures is all down to injuries
3) ETH has a great style of play he just couldn't implement it this season due to instability. Once players are back we will be great.
4) All the other issues that has happened is due to the Glazers and poor structure
5) The players are to blame. 90 percent of the are sht, down tools are trying to get him sacked. Even the one he bought
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People do genuinely believe these things and spout them regularly. I mean there actually is a little truth in some of them, but it's insane the lengths some people go to to absolve a manager that's out of his depth of his clear deficiencies.
 
From the options available Nagelsmann is probably the most sensible pick. No point in going down the De Zerbi route just yet until we've completely overhauled the squad. Imagine Bruno and Rashford trying to play possession football.
 
Southgate would push me over the edge. You guys would see me roaming the streets on Manchester in full The Joker attire
 
Blood Mage said:
From the options available Nagelsmann is probably the most sensible pick. No point in going down the De Zerbi route just yet until we've completely overhauled the squad. Imagine Bruno and Rashford trying to play possession football.
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If Lewis Dunk can do it I’m quite sure they would cope.
 
VP89 said:
There was a deep dive into transfer dealings and the briefings at the time of transfers too shows what was being proposed.

For example when we went for Hojlund, Romano mentioned alternatives provided were Goncalo Ramos and Kolo Muani. The latter two by the club and the manager pushing for the former.

The Athletic wrote that our club could only muster Pau Torres and I think one other defender instead of Licha. And the manager again, made the right and better call for Licha.

Moreover when ten hag asked for a defensive midfielder reinforcement, we had the option of Rice or Casemiro. And we opted for Casemiro as the initial outlay was less, even though in FFP terms it hurts us more.

With Antony it was reported Gakpo was the alternative, ironically he too was a ten hag name. He had no support on any alternative from the club.
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Do you genuinely believe that our scouts did not know about any other right wingers? If not, we could’ve just kept the one we had. We’d be better off.
 
Blood Mage said:
From the options available Nagelsmann is probably the most sensible pick. No point in going down the De Zerbi route just yet until we've completely overhauled the squad. Imagine Bruno and Rashford trying to play possession football.
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Yeah he is only second on my list because deludedly believe we could rival scousers and Bayern for Alonso
 
acnumber9 said:
Do you genuinely believe that our scouts did not know about any other right wingers? If not, we could’ve just kept the one we had. We’d be better off.
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You'd get names reported if we did. And to answer your question, yes, I think our scouts knew but Murtough agreeing on them is another matter. Remember we sacked off our head scouts and it all rolled up into Murtough that year.
 
Zed 101 said:
At the end of the day we are hoping that the manager of a football club will understand their player's qualities and shortcomings otherwise how can they possibly do their job!

I am not saying that somebody should not have blocked Antony, but it seems you want to exonerate ETH from all responsibility?

The point is that we have a manager who is clearly a poor judge of players of whom they have extensive knowledge, that to me is incredibly damning and concerning, and explains a lot about how poorly we have been set up to play and the inept tactics, formations and substitutions he has employed.
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Not at all, ten hag shoulders blame for Antony. But only Antony. I think licha was a great move. Malacia was a fine move if not for injury.

Klopp wanted Brandt and Pulisic over Salah, he knew Brandt well from Bundasliga. Who gives a feck? Managers get some things wrong and that's why they aren't scouts.
 
Thomas Frank :lol:

I think the media are putting two and two together with Ratcliffe, Brailsford and the potential hiring of Ashworth being English it suits the pattern.
 
Zed 101 said:
The point is that we have a manager who is clearly a poor judge of players of whom they have extensive knowledge, that to me is incredibly damning and concerning, and explains a lot about how poorly we have been set up to play and the inept tactics, formations and substitutions he has employed.
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I think the writing was already on the wall because the Ajax fans said this about the manager. It's somewhat permissible under a better structure but having observed that Solskjaer interview, by his own account he was never in a position where the club signed a player that he didn't approve (which debunks every idea that this current squad isn't of the managers making).

If the new structure will also use the same merit and not sign players the manager doesn't approve, but the manager is a poor judge of talent, that relationship doesn't bode well for the future.
 
acnumber9 said:
Do you genuinely believe that our scouts did not know about any other right wingers? If not, we could’ve just kept the one we had. We’d be better off.
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Gakpo as an alternative to Antony doesn't even make sense as Whitwell was reporting in 2022 the club thought he was better suited for the left side:



The Athletic also reported Ten Hag was eager to secure Antony:

"Erik ten Hag was eager to be reunited with his former Ajax player and Antony, who was left out of the Eredivisie side’s squad on Sunday for the second game in a row, has spoken out publicly to try and force a move.

He told The Guardian: “Since February of this year, my agents came to Amsterdam to inform Ajax of my desire to leave the club to face new challenge and that some interested clubs would arrive and with them, certainly a great offer.

Ten Hag has already signed Lisandro Martinez from his former employers but wanted Antony to add competition in attack" [source]

and looking at transfer rumours at the time, we were linked with Neto, Joao Felix, Olise and even Pulisic at one point
 
acnumber9 said:
Do you genuinely believe that our scouts did not know about any other right wingers? If not, we could’ve just kept the one we had. We’d be better off.
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The Solskjaer interview disproves many of the mis-conceptions even with key figures being juggled around recruitment. The club clearly have always had mountainous reports on a variety of players, he alluded that not if any get overlooked.

The problem seems to be the scouts judgement when it comes to apprehension of the said players.
 
TsuWave said:
Gakpo as an alternative to Antony doesn't even make sense as Whitwell was reporting in 2022 the club thought he was better suited for the left side:



The Athletic also reported Ten Hag was eager to secure Antony:

"Erik ten Hag was eager to be reunited with his former Ajax player and Antony, who was left out of the Eredivisie side’s squad on Sunday for the second game in a row, has spoken out publicly to try and force a move.

He told The Guardian: “Since February of this year, my agents came to Amsterdam to inform Ajax of my desire to leave the club to face new challenge and that some interested clubs would arrive and with them, certainly a great offer.

Ten Hag has already signed Lisandro Martinez from his former employers but wanted Antony to add competition in attack" [source]

and looking at transfer rumours at the time, we were linked with Neto, Joao Felix, Olise and even Pulisic at one point
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Whitwell literally said Gakpo was under consideration for us, and it was well reported we accelerated for him when Antony looked unlikely.

Also transfer rumours has us linked to Mbappe if you look hard enough. Can you point to reputable reports that gave right wing options outside of Antony suggested by the club?
 
UpWithRivers said:
So to sum up.
1) Transfers not down to ETH and anyway they were all great bar Antony but that wasn't his fault. He told them Antony wasnt worth 80 mill but was overruled
2) This seasons failures is all down to injuries
3) ETH has a great style of play he just couldn't implement it this season due to instability. Once players are back we will be great.
4) All the other issues that has happened is due to the Glazers and poor structure
5) The players are to blame. 90 percent of the are sht, down tools are trying to get him sacked. Even the one he bought
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Surely 3) is the only defense anyone has actually said. It's also true to a degree. The rest of your points are exaggerated to make your argument.
 
VP89 said:
Whitwell literally said Gakpo was under consideration for us, and it was well reported we accelerated for him when Antony looked unlikely.

Also transfer rumours has us linked to Mbappe if you look hard enough. Can you point to reputable reports that gave right wing options outside of Antony suggested by the club?
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Read what I said again - slowly - and you'll see I never said he wasn't under consideration for us. I mean, I posted a tweet saying he was.

I don't know what you consider reputable - furthermore, I don't recall ever coming across a report on potential transfers specifying "X were suggested by Z and A were suggested by B"

but here's The Athletic reports on Pulisic:

https://theathletic.com/3515881/2022/08/17/christian-pulisic-manchester-united-usmnt/
https://theathletic.com/3515717/2022/08/17/pulisic-manchester-united-transfer/

here's The Athletic in March 2022 - before Ten Hag was appointed - stating we were in the market for a RW:

"When this summer’s market opens on July 1, however, United will be attempting to add a centre-forward to the squad. According to sources, the club ideally also want two midfielders — one defensive, one offensive — and a right-sided winger, despite signing Jadon Sancho for £73 million last summer. Time will tell on those pursuits, but adding a striker is a priority." [source]
 
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VP89 said:
Who gives a feck if he pushed for Anthony. Managers often push for players that aren't the best choice. They are coaches not scouts. The whole point is having a structure that doesn't expose them in that department.
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Many managers do still have quite significant roles in deciding on transfers, Supposedly klopp has had more since Edwards left.

To be fair some of the focus on ten hags transfers is missing the fact his coaching has been abysmal
 
Red Dreams said:
SJR said we have had good managers. But the environment was not right to succeed.

Translation.
The Glazer whoresons had not run United as a football club.

SJR only took over football operations in late December.
Noting could be done last window.
Erik will certainly be given every help possible in the summer and be allowed to at least finish his contract.

I'm certain there are regular meetings and discussions now with the team that SJR has assembled so far.

Just hiring a new manager will not change anything.

It will take a few years.
Whoever the manager is.
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Correct, how so many can’t see this astounds me.
 
I like him and would want to keep him. But momentum and faith are basically essential to be successful and both look to be gone for him.
Maybe he can finish the season strong, win an fa cup, get a couple of strong wins against good sides. I think even that would leave him teetering on the edge if he survives and its probably best to make a fresh start with a new manager if you're pumping significant money into the team over the summer. Its pretty unlikely anyway, dont see the team delivering them kind of results.
 
Matt851 said:
Many managers do still have quite significant roles in deciding on transfers, Supposedly klopp has had more since Edwards left.

To be fair some of the focus on ten hags transfers is missing the fact his coaching has been abysmal
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To be honest it's impossible to gauge his coaching with the shit squad he has. Which is how we pivoted to transfers and player quality.
What we do know is he wasn't this open last year or ever in his managerial career, so it's not unreasonable to attribute this to circumstance more than coaching pedigree.
 
Not fussed on these managers we're being linked with most. I'd take McKenna over them any day.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
Surely 3) is the only defense anyone has actually said. It's also true to a degree. The rest of your points are exaggerated to make your argument.
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Nope, you'll find versions of all five arguments within this very thread.
 
It sounds like INEOS have made their mind up already, hopefully they sack him before the Liverpool FA Cup game and we can hit them with the new manager bounce.
 
croadyman said:
Not over Nagelsmann,Inzaghi,Tuchel surely,Amorim would also be another interesting choice too
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Not really bring linked with them though, so far De Zerbi and Potter seem to be the most frequent ones. McKenna definitley worth a shout there in comparison with those ones for various reasons.

Southgate as manager both horrifies me as much as it concerns me.
 
Dannn411 said:
Thomas Frank? Southgate? Let's tear it all down and start again because what on earth.
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Considering INEOS are choosing the style they are looking to play they are apparently looking at 3 managers who play a totally different style from each other. Make it make sense ESPN
 
Good lord after all the shite we have been through year after year and all the humiliations we have endured season after season ever since fergie retired, it’s the appointment of Southgate that would end me.
 
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