Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[DSG]

It really isn't. It's not even close. He inherited a team that new how to win, with a United dressing room. The ONLY players truly on the brink of breaking were Rio and Vidic. The only thing that changed was he ripped out all the backroom staff that made them win the league previously under Fergie and brought his who were who hadn't the slightest clue how to run a winning ship.

Compare that to ETH stepping into a side low on morale, fractured in the dressing room and low on standards, with Frankenstein squad with questionable quality. Yet ended his first year with a trophy, a runners up in another and 3rd.

You are seriously clutching at straws.

There have been 11 new players added to the squad since Ten Hag joined. Most of the incoming players were raised to management as a transfer target by ETH himself. He has veto authority on all transfers. We’ve spent 400m…

Ten Hag has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Irwin99]

Its a trophyless season without CL football next year I think.

Yeah it's looking that way. If he can beat Liverpool and if City get knocked out then maybe he can win the FA cup but it's still a bit of a long shot. I don't think it's impossible that we can beat Liverpool in the cup though.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

These fans that are excusing it deserve the last 10 years. I hope I never hear the same posters complain again about us not competing etc.

Also, Wolves have beat City this season. They lost at Etihad but had a more respectable 44% possession and had 10 shots. I think it's unfair to even compare our game to Wolves at this point.

Oh yeah I just used Wolves as a generic mid table club example since posters that are fine with yesterday say we are

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

There have been 11 new players added to the squad since Ten Hag joined. Most of the incoming players were raised to management as a transfer target by ETH himself. He has veto authority on all transfers. We’ve spent 400m…

Ten Hag has no one to blame but himself.

Thanks for making a reply that is 100% irrelevant to the post you replied to

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I was not a detractor after we beat Barcelona in Europa and won League Cup,thought ok let's build on this in the summer. Then he oversaw that abomination at Anfield and I lost all hope. Sorry to the old school fans who will call me a plastic but couldn't accept that happened.

No one ever will to be fair.

 

[CasaStreets]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

But at the same time, in a well-run club he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be the person driving our transfer decisions.

So, to me, it still feels weird to sack a manager primarily because of a problem that is (hopefully) being resolved structurally.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

He doesn't look "happy" is an understatement

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Well that would be a bad start already,they should be talking to candidates now ready to sack him.

What message would that send? Either stand behind him or fire him. No half measures.

The injury list is horrendous and we are still not getting any respite from it. I think he should be given time and should start next season.

 

[VP89]

Why is this noteworthy? He's at every game

 

[erikcred]

Yeah it's looking that way. If he can beat Liverpool and if City get knocked out then maybe he can win the FA cup but it's still a bit of a long shot. I don't think it's impossible that we can beat Liverpool in the cup though.

Agree. Especially if Salah isn't back by then.
A stroke of luck we're playing that game at home. We need to use OT properly.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I can understand those who want ETH kept on. I strongly disagree with them, but I can understand the various reasons they have.

What I don't get are the ones who act all high and mighty about it, claiming anyone who wants ETH out at this point is an idiot who doesn't understand football, as if there's a master plan slowly coming together that we're too stupid to see.

 

[VP89]

I can understand those who want ETH kept on. I strongly disagree with them, but I can understand the various reasons they have.

What I don't get are the ones who act all high and mighty about it, claiming anyone who wants ETH out at this point is an idiot who doesn't understand football, as if there's a master plan slowly coming together that we're too stupid to see.

Doubt there are many of these left.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

But at the same time, in a well-run club he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be the person driving our transfer decisions.

So, to me, it still feels weird to sack a manager primarily because of a problem that is (hopefully) being resolved structurally.

I think the opposite of it, is the biggest red flag..

In that, ETH has power and leeway to bring whoever he thought was capable of playing how he wants but he has failed to hack even that.
Imagine, with a freewill he signs a player who can't play how 'he wants' thereafter, what if unknown players are signed for him?

Klopp was given Salah, against his wishes, and he turned him into a PL Great, a record breaking goal scorer before Haaland came.
Can ETH be given a unknown player from Serie A and turn him into a PL record goalscorer? I don't think so.

So ETH having say in transfer or not is not a big issue, the biggest problem is he can't be able to play well with his team against PL opposition no matter who signed who.

ETH = Antony as a player. PL is a step above his abilities, nothing so complicated. Not every player makes it in PL, also not every manager makes it in PL. Very easy.

 

[erikcred]

He can't say, "We tried but we came short. It was a bad day at the office". Then he will be accused of repeating the same shit after every loss.
He can't say "My players played like shit and should be embarassed". Then he will be accused of throwing players under the bus.
He cannot say "I am a shit coach and our tactics are bad". He would be accused of being a loser. No coach would say that.

It is up to the guys above him to see how he is coaching and attribute the blame and sack him if not good enough.

I mean, "I'm watching a different team compared to the rest of the world" isn't any better.

 

[RedRocket9908]

What message would that send? Either stand behind him or fire him. No half measures.

The injury list is horrendous and we are still not getting any respite from it. I think he should be given time and should start next season.

Having injuries is not a valid excuse for the way the team are playing on the pitch, the players have no gameplan and there hasnt been any kind of tactics all season.

Erik is way out of his depth at this club, he over-trains the players, allianates players, makes bizarre subs, and hasnt implemented and kind of style or tactics in the 19 months he has been in charge.

If I was SJR I would have sacked him after the Fulham embarrasment which would have given us at least a fighting chance of getting something against City abd keeping our top 4 hopes alive.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I can understand those who want ETH kept on. I strongly disagree with them, but I can understand the various reasons they have.

What I don't get are the ones who act all high and mighty about it, claiming anyone who wants ETH out at this point is an idiot who doesn't understand football, as if there's a master plan slowly coming together that we're too stupid to see.

do those people exist? ffs
i'm still eth in for the season but anyone being overly uppity about it is a real clown

 

[Fortitude]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

But at the same time, in a well-run club he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be the person driving our transfer decisions.

So, to me, it still feels weird to sack a manager primarily because of a problem that is (hopefully) being resolved structurally.

It’s definitely not the biggest argument against him. You don’t even need to factor in transfers at all for his failings to be enormous.

 

[luke511]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

But at the same time, in a well-run club he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be the person driving our transfer decisions.

So, to me, it still feels weird to sack a manager primarily because of a problem that is (hopefully) being resolved structurally.

That would be true if it was just the transfers he’s got horribly wrong.

 

[TsuWave]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

How can anyone watch us this season and say the biggest argument against him is transfers? What the hell is going on

 

[clarkydaz]

one of the comments, he's tired of watching us play

 

[RedDevil@84]

I mean, "I'm watching a different team compared to the rest of the world" isn't any better.

No. But managers talk shit in media all the time. Klopp blamed wind, Pep blamed grass. Hardly a place to fish for what manager actually thinks in his mind.

 

[Sarni]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

But at the same time, in a well-run club he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be the person driving our transfer decisions.

So, to me, it still feels weird to sack a manager primarily because of a problem that is (hopefully) being resolved structurally.

No, the biggest argument against him is that we play horrible football.

 

[RedRocket9908]

do those people exist? ffs
i'm still eth in for the season but anyone being overly uppity about it is a real clown

Why keep him until the end of the season? If he going to be sacked he should be sacked now.

 

[dave2528]

That would be true if it was just the transfers he’s got horribly wrong.

He's also pretty dire when it comes to in-game management and substitutions...
His lineups can sometimes be puzzling...
His tactics have us conceding almost the most shots in the league at 445 (we're 12 behind West Ham, 6 behind Sheffield)...

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

Actually I think Onana is starting to look good, Martinez is great and Højlund is gonna be a star.

The biggest argument is that he hasn’t managed to put a stamp on this team in almost 2 years, and can’t seem to be able to get us to control games even against absolute tosh.
At this point you’d expect to see well drilled players improving as the squad gets more and more used to the managers tactics, we see the exact opposite, we’re regressing.

 

[Telsim]

He is just intensely appreciating the small margins.

 

[CasaStreets]

It’s definitely not the biggest argument against him. You don’t even need to factor in transfers at all for his failings to be enormous.

That would be true if it was just the transfers he’s got horribly wrong.

How can anyone watch us this season and say the biggest argument against him is transfers? What the hell is going on

No, the biggest argument against him is that we play horrible football.

Of course we're playing horrible football but that's no different than the last 5-6 years. It's the same players with the same limitations. And the reason it's the same players is because EtH's recruitment has been bad. So again, the major strike against him is his recruitment.

 

[bond19821982]

I would rather have Jose and I have been a huge fan of ETH. But that performance was spineless.

 

[TsuWave]

no different than the last 5-6 years. It's the same players with the same limitations. And the reason it's the same players

It is not the same players

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Doubt there are many of these left.

Im yet to come across one. It's the "get him out" brigade who think everyone not in their corner guilty of faulty thinking.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Why keep him until the end of the season? If he going to be sacked he should be sacked now.

It's just my opinion of course. I think what he did in his first year warrants us seeing if he maybe could be successful here once we get the recruitment right. Our form turned once we got back Martinez and Casa although Martinez is once again injured. He may not be the one but whoever is the one will need some time to get this big ship turned.

 

[CasaStreets]

Actually I think Onana is starting to look good, Martinez is great and Højlund is gonna be a star.

The biggest argument is that he hasn’t managed to put a stamp on this team in almost 2 years, and can’t seem to be able to get us to control games even against absolute tosh.
At this point you’d expect to see well drilled players improving as the squad gets more and more used to the managers tactics, we see the exact opposite, we’re regressing.

Nah, I don't buy that. Onana has been hit or miss this season - deserves plenty more time to prove himself but jury is still out. Martinez is good but injured and didn't impact this season. Love Hojlund and he's had a good patch last 2 months but don't know if we can definitively state anything after <30 apperances.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I can understand those who want ETH kept on. I strongly disagree with them, but I can understand the various reasons they have.

What I don't get are the ones who act all high and mighty about it, claiming anyone who wants ETH out at this point is an idiot who doesn't understand football, as if there's a master plan slowly coming together that we're too stupid to see.

I haven’t seen a single poster do this.

Please enlighten me who has?

I have however seen plenty argue that if they aren’t Ten Hag out that they don’t understand football etc.

 

[Fortitude]

Of course we're playing horrible football but that's no different than the last 5-6 years. It's the same players with the same limitations. And the reason it's the same players is because EtH's recruitment has been bad. So again, the major strike against him is his recruitment.

It’s actually very different as this is a nadir without a purpose. In the past, really bad football has not necessarily correlated with really bad results.

 

[CasaStreets]

It’s actually very different as this is a nadir without a purpose. In the past, really bad football has not necessarily correlated with really bad results.

I'm going to bottom line it - we're in 6th, same position we've finished 3 of the last 7 seasons. It's a bad season in the context of the last few years, but last season was a good season. That's what we are right now, a top-4 challenger with ebbs and flows, nothing more.

The reason that's all we are is because we are extremely inconsistent in the quality of our signings - which has been Ten Haag's biggest fault. There's an extremely strong argument that's been the biggest deficiency of the club for this whole stretch of years - wasteful and staggeringly inconsistent recruitment.

 

[RedRover]

I am constantly conflicted about this guy because the biggest argument against him is that his transfers have been abysmal.

But at the same time, in a well-run club he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be the person driving our transfer decisions.

So, to me, it still feels weird to sack a manager primarily because of a problem that is (hopefully) being resolved structurally.

Isn't it a major flaw if he can't identify whether a player is of the required level to do what he needs them to do?

Whilst someone will be coming in to the club to handle transfers, surely your manager drives (at least to some degree) what sort of system you'll be playing and therefore needs to have input in the personnel? Surely there's got to be some level of co-operation between the scouting system, the executives actually bringing in the players and the manager (and his staff) who need to form them into a coherent unit. I'd assume that's how the best clubs operate.

I appreciate some clubs have a head coach who's replaceable and a structure behind the scenes driving a system and style of play. Maybe that's the route we'll go down and if so, I'm not sure where that leaves a manager who wanted control of transfers and evidently, the freedom to build a system of his own.

The structure needs addressing before decisions are taken on the manager, but he's not doing himself any favours at the moment. Yesterday was dire, but made worse for me by the delusional comments he made after. Bizarre.

 

[CasaStreets]

Isn't it a major flaw if he can't identify whether a player is of the required level to do what he needs them to do?

Whilst someone will be coming in to the club to handle transfers, surely your manager drives (at least to some degree) what sort of system you'll be playing and therefore needs to have input in the personnel? Surely there's got to be some level of co-operation between the scouting system, the executives actually bringing in the players and the manager (and his staff) who need to form them into a coherent unit. I'd assume that's how the best clubs operate.

I appreciate some clubs have a head coach who's replaceable and a structure behind the scenes driving a system and style of play. Maybe that's the route we'll go down and if so, I'm not sure where that leaves a manager who wanted control of transfers and evidently, the freedom to build a system of his own.

The structure needs addressing before decisions are taken on the manager, but he's not doing himself any favours at the moment. Yesterday was dire, but made worse for me by the delusional comments he made after. Bizarre.

It's a good point and that's exactly what I wrangle with too. To what degree should EtH be judged as a tactician/manager of the team for the missteps he's made running our transfers? Obviously, he's fully culpable in the sense they're his decisions. But, on the other hand, recruitment and even style of play are increasingly out of managers' hands at the progressive, elite clubs.

While I also don't know exactly where the lines are drawn between club leadership vs manager vs recruiting, I think that in this environment the contributions managers should make is to ensure a recruit's mentality is aligned with what they want. But managers should be less responsible for answering: is this the ROI-maximizing player for us to acquire given their performance, our budget, style of play, mentality, etc? Frankly, I think that type of equation isn't one most managers are well-equipped to answer in full.

 

[Jaap]

Don't see Emery wanting to leave Villa when they are building something promising. Have made my views on Potter crystal clear. I would be happy with any of the other three, however De Zerbi taking a few hidings this season is very concerning.

Given that we are hopefully set up right behind the scenes, I would love de Zerbi. His style is so exciting but would need the right signings as well but we do have players that could pull his style off (Onana, Martinez, Dalot, Shaw, Mainoo, Hojlund).

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I think these people were broken all along.

There's probably a case for some social research on our fanbase - I have a feeling, that we probably have an unusually large number of people from single parent families that latched onto the club/SAF as a way of filling that paternal hole in their life.

@Skills

Yeah baby we’re all just super angsty from broken homes and want Ten Hag to be our step daddy baby.