That's a good point which I also appreciate. He used to be very insistent in playing Antony and virtually all his signings regardless of form, much better now at least with regards to that one particular player.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Some things take time. He wasn't turning to Antony for solutions this season because he's too stubborn to admit his mistake. Garnacho improving several aspects of his game is what has sent Antony to the bench. The way he has designed the role of the right fullback means that the right-winger has to be able (and comfortable) to cover the whole of the flank, both defend and receive the ball deeper. That's probably how the rift between him and Sancho (who's the most talented option we had in the team for the position) occurred, with the latter possibly wanting a role similar to Rashford's. Anyway, it takes two to tango. Managers often have to make concessions and admit mistakes, but the players also have to step up and provide solutions that will help the collective. Especially, the more talented ones.
We don't do nuanced views here
If we beat Fulham at home on saturday that's 5 wins on the bounce in the league with some tricky fixtures.
Football hasn't been great but this is how we won the cup last season, just grinding out the ugly wins
Football hasn't been great but this is how we won the cup last season, just grinding out the ugly wins
Wolves, West Ham, Villa, Luton, Fulham up next, then Forezt in the cup. I did say I expected us to win all our matches this month, just felt like a run was coming. I'll even go further now and say that whatever happens against City, we'll pick ourselves up and beat the next three until Chelsea/Pool, maybe even the chavs too.
There have been positives obviously but we're basically playing an inferior version of Ole ball now.
Given that he showed a lot of promise with what he did at Ajax, if the new ownership decides that he's good enough, based on the principles of sporting excellence then that's fine.
Given that he showed a lot of promise with what he did at Ajax, if the new ownership decides that he's good enough, based on the principles of sporting excellence then that's fine.
We win by virtue of having better individual players who can produce a moment
If reports are true we now have Dalot or Lindelof moved to left back for the rest of the season and we're hoping for AwB to return at right back. Wonderful 
There are lots of valid criticisms that can be thrown at EtH but he's been dealt a bad hand with injuries and club decisions on certain players. Hopefully the new club restructure will look at some of these issues and realise you can't just muddle through and hope for the best with injury prone players or ones that sulk and throw the manager under the bus at any opportunity.
There are lots of valid criticisms that can be thrown at EtH but he's been dealt a bad hand with injuries and club decisions on certain players. Hopefully the new club restructure will look at some of these issues and realise you can't just muddle through and hope for the best with injury prone players or ones that sulk and throw the manager under the bus at any opportunity.
The problem isn’t the winning or even the losing, it’s the fact we could beat Fulham 3-0, but we could also lose 4-3 and you have absolutely no idea which one it will be until the final whistle has gone.
When you play that way you can’t build on it, it doesn’t matter what players you have available. There’s zero control in games in favour for overloads at the top of the pitch. Defenders will always be exposed and have to make world class stops multiple times in every game.
The results come from the smaller teams who can’t handle our overloads and make too many mistakes. Organised teams just play around us. Hence the reason our record against the top 8 is terrible.
If I post something that's actually thoughtful and someone replies like a child, that's what they'll get back from me. Give me a reason to take you seriously and I will, but I'm not going to be diplomatic with people that don't know their arse from their elbow and talk down to anyone who dares say to say a good word about the manager of Manchester United. If you don't like it, block me.
Essentially what I’ve been saying for months.
I was Moyes out, then I was LVG out then I was Mouronho out, then I was Ole out. At some point you have to old your hands up and say, there’s something wrong here. All these managers can’t be this crap. We have a structure that cannot support success under any coach.
I’d say a valid criticism is continually bringing Shaw back from injury/injury scares too early.If reports are true we now have Dalot or Lindelof moved to left back for the rest of the season and we're hoping for AwB to return at right back. Wonderful
There are lots of valid criticisms that can be thrown at EtH but he's been dealt a bad hand with injuries and club decisions on certain players. Hopefully the new club restructure will look at some of these issues and realise you can't just muddle through and hope for the best with injury prone players or ones that sulk and throw the manager under the bus at any opportunity.
To be fair, I wouldn’t blame ETH for this. It’s elit club that suppose to have elite medical stuff that supposed to be able to highlight any issues and then block player from playing a game. I am afraid that our medical department have some serious issues. It’s because these things are keep coming back. Shaw isn’t the first player that’s been played despite having some issues. I just can’t believe that any coach knowing his situation and the players on the bench or more precisely its lack, would risk its main player in a game like we had on Sunday.
Ofcourse they can be crap. Has any of those coaches had success afterwards. LVG had a decent stint with NT at world cup, but lost after meeting first good team. Mourinho failed at Spurs and Roma. Ole still doesn't have a job.
It's not the problem with just the manager. There is a bunch of problems, but the lack of cohesive structure on the pitch, poor performance, conceding 20 shots against relegation teams, inability to control matches or have decent posession are all problems that are due to poor tactics, poor coaching or just poor selection. That's all the responsibility of the manager.
Comments on ETH make it pretty clear to me we're looking at alternatives for next season
While it may be as you say, the reason I haven't immediately blamed the medical staff is because I feel like they can only evaluate so much, and provide the manager with all they have. Then it's up to the manager to decide how to handle the player. For example Hojlund was eased into the team at the beginning by comign off the bench. Shaw comes back from a layoff and is immediately a starter and expected to play the entire game. It kind of feels like a manager choosing to play his best players during a difficult time.
Yeah it’s not like all of our ex managers have failed with us and then gone on to big success afterwards again. Who knows, maybe Ole gets the Bayern job and tears it up though I guess to break the cycle
Delighted to finally hear somebody at the club saying what’s been wrong.
Not sure we can actually take anything about ETH from that but it does suggest SJR is somewhat sympathetic to the cluster f**k all our managers have had to navigate. One could argue none of them had as many issues as ETH to manage.
Glad he’s taking his time to assess things
I feel the Cafe has had this discussion with Ole a lot with the ridiculous Rashford double fracture incident and the Martial injury situations so who knows where the blame really lies but we're a better side with Luke Shaw in it. If we had better depth in the squad maybe we wouldn't need to be rushing players back. Regardless, it's not a good situation to be in.
It’s a bit chicken & egg that one though. Shaw went off at half time last week having only recently returned from an injury absence. Yes the medical team will hold some responsibility but at the end of the day the manager picks the team. We’ve seen only this season that player’s injuries can be managed, see Hojlund.
Yes we’re a better side with him in it but we’d be better of with being cautious for a few weeks rather than now losing him for a few months.
It’s all moot anyway, I’ve been saying it for ages, we need to look at replacing Shaw.
So... Liverpool currently losing again to Luton. What we thinking?
Damn it - that explains a lot the bastard. I thought the guy had some dodgy tactics and this just proves it..... I guess I know what ten Hag ball is now.What should we be thinking?
3-1 up now. Does that change anything?
I don't see how anyone can disagree with that now. If the new structure can't see where it's been going wrong with injury prone players or players with serious attitude problems though then it won't matter who the manager is. Hopefully they will sort this out.
To be fair, we should always be looking at alternatives no matter who the manager is. That's just basic succession / worst-case scenario planning.
Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole were all bad appointments and no amount of time was going to be enough for them to turn out otherwise. None of them really went on to achieve much at the top level after we let them go.
I like it. I've been ETH out since December, but I can take a step back from that since I can now see his work will be properly assessed. He mentioned the idea of the manager reporting to the CEO not being good at all.
Ratcliffe's tone suggests he's not tied to the manager. It's not emotional, it's not overly enthusiastic, it's based simply on evidence.
Him also going further along to define it and let us know that the manager's would be off recruitment, with an aim of playing the style of football that the club wants is essential.
If he doesn't produce the type of football they want, he will be kicked out with no emotion attached to it. For me, that's all I've wanted.
His interview suggests that the manager role will be relegated to coach moving forward, with the playing strategy being completely defined by the club rather than the manager. If they can't hang or aren't willing to adapt, they will be sacked.
I think ETH finally have some excuse to play Antony, would we see Antony as LB with Shaw out? Maybe we will be seeing the world mist expensive LB in making.
1000% true, but he's not going to slag off those managers publicly.
Sir Jim Ratcliffe: "We will decide the style of football, with the general manager, the sporting director and probably the recruitment managers, and it will be #mufc's style of football, and the manager will have to play that style."
That is all we need basically, and sooner or later it will be fixed. TH destiny will be on if he is capable to play style management wants or not, and not on what he currently plays or even current results. SJR mentioned games and teams he liked, so probably that is the sign in which direction they want game style to go. Will TH be capable to do that? I am not sure and would not bet on it, as he did not show adaptability till now, especially in this season. Also, I guess we should see where Nice is going, as probably basics of the game they want to play will be similar. I would be surprised that they want one style for them, and the other for us. They are the best defensive side in France so that doesn't suite TH at all. They are taking risks but only in final third, and even when results are not there you can see they are better team and that they know what are they doing. Also, SAF always said you are building title winning teams from the back, and SJR respects him and I would expect something similar from us in the next few years, and especially next summer.
That is all we need basically, and sooner or later it will be fixed. TH destiny will be on if he is capable to play style management wants or not, and not on what he currently plays or even current results. SJR mentioned games and teams he liked, so probably that is the sign in which direction they want game style to go. Will TH be capable to do that? I am not sure and would not bet on it, as he did not show adaptability till now, especially in this season. Also, I guess we should see where Nice is going, as probably basics of the game they want to play will be similar. I would be surprised that they want one style for them, and the other for us. They are the best defensive side in France so that doesn't suite TH at all. They are taking risks but only in final third, and even when results are not there you can see they are better team and that they know what are they doing. Also, SAF always said you are building title winning teams from the back, and SJR respects him and I would expect something similar from us in the next few years, and especially next summer.
The managerial appointments were an incohesive mess.
Regardless of how well they would or wouldn’t have done, they were handicapped by our club’s dysfunction and would have had a far better chance of succeeding had we not been wasting money. Fellaini was Moyes first signing, club might aswell made him wear a “we only hired him as a joke” sweater, no serious manager would be happy with that. And he basically took over a structureless club and was handed a hospital ball.
LVG regular quotes the fact United seldom got their top targets, usually our 3rd or 4th preference. Fans used to dismiss him, but he’s been proven 100% correct in saying United was more focused on commercial than football elements. Finally fans are seeing that it matters a lot and blaming managers when they fail in an environment not built for success is futile.
Jose in particular might of inherited a much stronger squad before a penny was spent when he joined: Still surprises me that people confidently call Jose finished less then a year after he win the league with Chelsea. I never wanted him as manager but he was a serial winner before United fixed that record and he still probably did the best , on paper, of making a go somewhat of things.
Ole was hired to “make players happy” which tells us all we need to know about the level of quality making important decisions at the club.
I never believed any manager was ever going to properly succeed under Glazers tenure on the football side. SJR hasn’t taken over the football side to pick the right manager, he’s taken it over to completely restructure how we have been run so that any manager coming in has a better chance , by default , of doing better.
With 22 goals scored in 22 games, they'll probably feel right at home with ETH at the helm. On a more serious note, different clubs means different aspirations. Other than the focus on younger and hungrier players, nothing INEOS has done at Nice will work at United. Least of all, building a side that will be walking on the pitch every week with one objective: To win 1-0.
That's fair - any manager achieving here is doing so despite, not because of the footballing structure behind him, but for me, you've got to find a middle ground. Clearly a manager working in the previous/current system has the deck stacked against him, but it doesn't save them from poor individual decision making - whether that's transfers or tactics, the manager has to take some responsibility.
Ten Hag (if he's here next season) has put himself in a position now where you'd think he's going to have very little input into transfers. Since he seemingly wanted that control when he joined it'll be interesting to see how that works.
edit: I know you're not having a go at Ole, I believe Ole was hired because everybody was sick and tired of Jose Ball, 8 defenders, often a few forwards doing defenders jobs, etc. Its was very ugly. And to be fair, Ole did manage to get United attacking and scoring again. His problem was no experience and when opposition, experienced - dare I say it, actual managers - figured out his counter attack style, Ole went and experimented with various tactics and setups of wich his players stopped executing.
You are right, and I feel LvG has been vindicated by this Sir Jim assesment, what many already said before (Rene Meulensteen in a Guardian article not long ago): the last few years United managers didnt get the players they wanted, didnt get the backing "the environment" they needed.
So here is Sir Jim saying the environment is failing the managers, the structure including the medical department but you are still blaming ETH for Shaws medical problems? This is unfair.
ETH isnt a doctor. Shaw goes through a range of checks and then a doctor, or a medical team has to clear him to make him available for selection. Doctors also make decisions on field if a player is allowed to continue or not. Thats not on ETH. Then the medical team gives protocols on how long a player that is cleared, is allowed to play games. Match fitness is closely monitored. Players also have huge medical insurance, with various stipulations. if ETH did anything against that, or if Shaw thinks ETH asked things of him that arent in line with medical protocol, ETH and United could get sued up to wazzoo.
Also, you could blame the medical team but medical problems are not an exact science. Some guys appearing healthy, just collapse or get other unforseen problems.
Its more fair to look at Shaws biological state, his history and conclude maybe for all his talents, just isnt made to be a top, top football player, at least not one a premier league club like United should build a season on. And to go back to the SJR interview, maybe the medical department needs better people. Your criticism on ETH on this, is not right
Yeah it’s not like all of our ex managers have failed with us and then gone on to big success afterwards again. Who knows, maybe Ole gets the Bayern job and tears it up though I guess to break the cycle
So wich other top or sub top clubs did Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole go to to compare like for like?
And is Moyes not a big succes at West Ham, up and until a few weeks ago firmly in the top 6, above Manchester United, Chelsea, Newcastle to name a few? Winner of the 23 conference league. Moyes has the highest win percentage of all West Ham managers. Ended 22/23 with 40 pts after 38 played, current 36 points after 25 played. I think you must conclude he really is a succes and performing well.
Jose is the only one you could vaguely argue didnt meet standards at Spurs.
LvG went on to coach a much lower talented Dutch squad than the Bergkamp, Van Basten years of yonder. Yet LvG nearly kicked out current world champions Argentina and Messi out of the tournament, with Wout Weghorst as hero of a game that extended into a penalty shoot out. Did that, including preparation whilst undergoing a treatment for cancer. That man bleeds football. He also stated many times what Sir Jim is now repeating: United doesnt give backing to top managers. He even warned and predicted Ten Hag what would happen to a T.
Ole hasnt had a job since he left United.
In short: you can't compare any of them for what they did after United because none worked for a club with similar status, and regarding LvG and Moyes they really performed after.
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To be fair this reason for signing Ole on the short term was absolutely ok, as the main problem at the time was the toxic atmosphere of Mourinho's final days at the club. That was a smart move actually (and proven to be the right by Ole's great run after taking over). Keeping him however is the point where your criticism is absolutely applicable.
Agree with you.
I wasn’t having a go at Ole by the way, I was giving out more about the lack of any plan at the club. I’ve always believed that if United was run properly , even an Ole appointment should be able to do well.
Look at all the top clubs in Europe who consistently challange for top honors. They regularly win leagues or champions leagues with managers who aren’t highly saught after. It’s not that these managers aren’t good, but they don’t need to be Pep/Klopp level managers. That’s the way we should be , so when I see people sayin. LVG or Jose were passed it, I think it’s ignoring the fact they inherited a broken squad and worked in a dysfunctional system so we just can’t be sure about those sort of statements.
I get you and wasn’t having a go at Ole. I suppose I think of us as a super power of a club and wonder how Real Madrid fans would feel about an unproven manager being brought in “to make under performing players happy”.
Perhaps unfair and maybe they have done it before but I guess I’m just disgusted at Woodward and always felt him and the glazers were completely out of their depth on the football side. Just sounds so pathetic “make players happy”, I mean how low can you set the bar?
I’m not blaming EtH for Shaw’s medical issues. His injuries came long before EtH & will probably blight him for the rest of his career. What I’m saying is a manager selects the team & chose to pick a player the world could see was unfit. Is this EtH responsibility alone? Of course not but a manager isn’t some passive actor in team selection.
What is ‘insane’ are people like yourself who seem to support the manager more so than the club itself. EtH has been nothing more [or less] than mediocre. Will that change with a change of CeO & football structure? Who knows but learn to read & comprehend first before wading in.
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