I’ve been vocal in my criticisms of him but that injury list is ridiculous
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Just want to re clarify, is it?
Malacia is out from an injury he suffered last year.
Mount has had a reoccurring calf problem and was out most of last season too.
Licha we know was after the Coufal tackle.
Shaw and Martial have had a catelogue of injuries pre Ten Hag.
I certainly think players are worked and pushed hard in training but I don't think that should be questioned. Our squad just has too many sicknotes.
Ten Hag might get another year but unless we seriously improve he’ll be gone sooner rather than later, Ratcliffe didn’t sound massively overjoyed with him in his interview.
Look at how long it took Sir Alex to get things right and football is more difficult now with oil money. ETH should get 8 years minimum.
You say this as though spectacular injury crises are a new phenomenon at the club since ETH took over...
I posted a thread about this ages ago.
Once you take over a squad and decide how you want to play it takes 3 years to reshape and get everyone on the same page on the pitch. If it's done right and players / coaching setup is established properly. It's from that point on that you can expect to have 3-4 years of consistent performances where you expect to compete across the board for trophies every year. Before you have to start refreshing players and positions to stay there.
SAF was always looking 3 to 4 years down the line with his players. Even during the lean rebuilding years he was always able to keep them in touch with the top.
But this is why Utd are always looking at a rebuild now because there's been no consistent approach over the last 10 years. Start now and you're looking at 2 to 3 years to reshape the squad and develop the players into a team. But the expectation is that you will be competitive and still be up near the top 3 or 4 teams. I don't see Utd being able to put a squad together over the next few months that will hit 80+ points next season. Top 4 without a struggle perhaps is possible.
I don't think ETH will be given the time to see out a process that's going to take another 2 or 3 years.
These injury plagues predate his tenure and have been a regular thing since SAF left.
It is plausible that the training may play a part in it but it’s not unusual for post-SAF era United to go through injury plagues, and this one has to be the worst I’ve ever seen. LVG had a really bad time with it one season but this season tops that
Improve the conditioning/medical functions and avoid sicknote players in the future.
It is plausible that the training may play a part in it but it’s not unusual for post-SAF era United to go through injury plagues, and this one has to be the worst I’ve ever seen. LVG had a really bad time with it one season but this season tops that
Improve the conditioning/medical functions and avoid sicknote players in the future.
Seriously, whether anybody wants ETH out or not, this injury situation has been horrendous. I mean we arent even playing loads of games, it cant be players being over played and our players are still dropping.
Eh it should be questioned within the club itself and things changed if training is causing injuries. We have had lots of muscular injuries this season, an unnatural amount. Shaw and Martial, sure, ignore. But it's been everyone. Garnacho, mctominay and Dalot are just about the only players who haven't had injury issues.
Even things like this one. We are playing once a week. Hojlund hasn't been overused. There really is no reason to be picking up muscular injuries right now unless training is overly intense, and ten hag has even said it was because of intense training.
Another likely thing though is a concern I had in the summer. Think back to Liverpool after they went to every final and ran city to the last day, a few years ago. The season after they had constant injury issues. Last season we had more games than anybody else, and have followed that up with the worst injury list and lethargic performances. Lack of rotation combined with an unmanageable fixture list last season basically killed this season before it could start.
Might be remembering incorrectly but this is the worst since that other dutch coach we had.
But more likely is this is heavily impacted by last season. Most games played, shallow squad and an aversion to rotation and it led to low energy this season and an insane injury list. Bad luck too, but it all plays a part
Any facts/figures to back up that claim?
The main injuries this season have been impact injuries damaging joints (Malacia, Mainoo, Martinez) Oh and Mount continuing the shitty record he had at a different club, under a different manager, last season.
Otherwise, I think we've been reasonably ok with injuries. Doesn't seem like more than we would have had in any one of our last several seasons. Although losing a player who is basically never injured (Fred) won't have helped the overall injury profile.
Is it though? I don't know how you can claim this without knowing some actual numbers to back up your hunch.
But if we go through the injuries, it's all players with known issues outside of training.
Amrabat has been available since his initial injury, McTominay, Bruno, garnacho, Antony broadly fine, Rashford has been broadly fit, Dalot has been OK.
Lindelof needed surgery too. I think the only "muscle injury" is probably Maguire? Even then he's pretty available.
It's all relative. The other sides have had some major blows too, City with KDB, Haaland, Stones. Liverpool with jota darwin slob and now salah, Newcastle and Chelsea with basically everyone. Aston Villa with a load too.
Also we have a very well respected head doctor that we nabbed from Arsenal. He would be definitely consulted on regarding optimal workloads.
The injuries for me are the result of an unhealthy squad. Varane and Casemiro are bordering on crocks, Malacia has been out bad for a year, Martial and Shaw are established to be made of jelly.
I'd hope so but I think he was only taking off because he was one more mis timed tackle away from seeing red.
Yeah people here are misquoting Ratcliffe. He said 3 years for the club. Not that Ten Haag has 3 years. The manager is just a piece now, so he has to fit the playing style the club wants. He didn't sound impressed by Ten Haag in that interview, just simply sympathetic in the same way he was with Greenwood.
Statistically it's worse actually. The only period worse is Ole/Rangnick's 2022
I've started a thread about our injuries. Be a good place for you to share those stats. We only picked up 2 more injures in 2021/22 than we did in the previous season, so chances are that one was also worse than any season under ETH. It also confirms what I'm arguing here. ETH didn't make our injuries any worse, the problem started before he took over. What we're seeing is business as usual at this club, with these players.
I don't disagree with you. I can't say for a fact whether he contributed or not, but these things happen. They always have, even under Sir Alex. It has exposed the vulnerability of his system and our lack of depth, which has led to us not being able to cope effectively with these injuries.
I personally think regardless of injuries, that our general play isn't good enough. However I agree that there is nothing to suggest ETH is the cause of this.
Yeah exactly the squad planning has been very poor and you only need to look at how many we have signed in the last 2-3 years and how many times they have been injured or unavailable. As I said, it constantly wrecks any chance we have of building momentum or even looking like challenging. Really hopefully with the change in direction we look at players that can actually go the distance and are not injured on a consistent basis.
The only thing that makes me think about training and being too intense was it was something ETH said himself when talking about Hojlund getting injured. If that is the case, and it has potentially hindered other players, shouldn't it be adjusted then? Especially if a number of players in the squad seem to get consistently injured anyway?
I don't know what the cause is, but the number of injuries and players being unavailable is something that has seriously cost us for a long time now.
Im unsure, he's gone into some press conferences and I recall him saying how he's given them lighter sessions in congested periods. Having a normal session with a week between games shouldn't be critically analysed.
True, and I think that's why I am frustrated too because with the lighter workload I would have thought we would have had less issues. Dunno, just seems to either be ridiculously unlucky or something else is causing a lot of issues. Not necessarily ETH at fault, but something. Just so disappointing when finally building some momentum and Hojlund in a red hot streak too.
We wouldn't miss him if we had other strikers. I think the real problem is our squad is razor thin.
We had the worst of it by far.
Again we do not have a left back and we are without our best fb. Things are still dire.
Haha. I hope at least another year, and then we evaluate.
Survival football for the next month. I wouldn't care a thing about performance. We could play the most tumescent example of football known to humans, as long as we can get through the next round of the cup - and get 4 points against Fulham and City - then I think we're still on track. Hojlund and Martinez should hopefully be fighting fit for April onwards.
True. Aye we are skint, but still find it insane we never sorted out a LB knowing how light we were there and also up front. Say it again, squad planning has been shocking.
I think it’s somewhat a combination of both. Non contact muscular injuries are a red flag. Now obvious Shaw/Martial etc will always have issues and that’s not down to anyone else. But by all accounts we train extremely hard, and then we run incredibly hard (or try to) during matches with the style we play. I just wonder if there’s a way to maximize the efficiency of it all because it’s simply not sustainable to sprint all week training and then also roll out on the weekends and do the same thing, especially our attackers. You can see the effect in game too, the front 3 by the 75th minute is exhausted and we clearly get much sloppier in the final 3rd.
Yes thats why its conflicting. 3 years seems about right if you are starting from scratch but Ten Haag is going 2 years and after summer spending could be 600 mill plus. Thats indicates he should be challenging next year. For Sir Jim to say 3 that would mean a new manager? Or are we saying ETH is now starting from scratch with new structure
Few managers now get 3 years. And ETH is over half way and the squad is still a mess. He he wasted money on the likes of Antony (rubbish), Casimero (too old) and Mount (one strong season at Chelsea), several other signings are underwhelming including Onana. No way this squad challenges next season, nor should we expect it to. I doubt ETH will be here in 18 months, perhaps gone after the summer. INEOS will build foundations and build a team. Let's see who manages that. The structure should also become less dependent on the manager to do everything.
Thats fighting talk......im ready@vanderpants. The Rat is coming for your job, mate.
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Mount was x2 player of the year at Chelsea so that’s not true.
Sadly i don't think that a lot of people will understand this. I completely get the criticism and doubts but at the moment- feck everything except the results. I don't care if Fulham have 60 shots on goal tomorrow, if we steal a 2-1 win in the final minute with this injury crisis then i'm fine with it.
Yeah but equally you have to understand performances = results.
Conceded 60 shots. You lose.
You might get away with poor performances here and there but it always catches up.
What I'd settle for given injuries is the basics done competently.
The massive mistakes we made in the summer are hurting us hard now. Backs against the wall stuff now. If we get 3 points tomorrow I would be very tempted to put out the reserves against Forest in the cup. Our Squad is so weak we just cannot afford any more injuries. Heaven forbid anything happens to Mainoo, Garnacho who let’s face it are kids. I guess we start Antony tomorrow let’s hope he takes his chance. LB is another huge issue.
Not buying or loaning in another striker in January might cost him his job now.
Liverpool might beg to differ at times this season, same with Sir Alex's teams towards the end of his reign, but i understand the point that better performances obviously equal better results most of the time. For now though, i just want to see wins on the board until the likes of Martinez and Hojlund come back.
You can get away with it in bits and pieces but there's no such thing as playing badly and consistently winning.
Now I don't expect us to set the world alight but the basics can't collapse like they have in the past.
That's not an endorsement. He understands the difficulties, but is also not satisfied with the performance. He's making a point not to commit. He's promising and intense, driven environment where performance is paramount, so if Ten Haag doesn't meet the performance remit in short order, he'll be out.
For me, that more than anything is what we've been missing. Supervision, intensity and consequence. My take on this is, as much as people call it a tough job, it's been quite easy for coaches and players. Managers don't get supervised or assessed, players get to stay even when they have terrible seasons. So having a more massive focus on what's going on on the field from senior management, will allow for greater attention to detail to occur on the playing side. If you don't think you're getting sacked and have at least 2 guaranteed seasons, some managers won't have the urgency to succeed and may be too reckless in transfers and tactics. For example, Van Gaal in 2015 risked half a season playing the 352, which he had not used at club level, resulting in poor football. He used youth players and sacrificed a potential title challenge by playing youth and selling some of our better players.
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