Bizarre time to complain. We're in the middle of a good run. And beating Villa away is a difficult task. I suspect folk just want him gone regardless.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Bizarre time to complain. We're in the middle of a good run. And beating Villa away is a difficult task. I suspect folk just want him gone regardless.
What time is appropriate for someone to complain about our continuous dire performance levels? we have played 24 games.
And yes, I would sack him end of the season regardless of where we end up.
We've played well last few weeks. So yeah it's a bizarre time to complain. But yeah at least there's some honesty...you want him gone regardless of any improvements.
Reading all that you’d think we were flying right now and not having our worst season in forever
Best to ignore him. When we won matches playing poorly under Solskjaer him and some other posters puffed their chest out and talked down to everyone who disagreed. It's not about United with the Ole kids.
Considering the predictions you made about his full time predecessor and how many time you've proven to be a complete fool it would flatter your court jester opinions regarding any manager if they were taken with a grain of salt. If only there was a chance you'd all get lost and follow his new team. Oh that's right, he doesn't have one
It's a fair question though. When is an acceptable time to complain? When we were in poor form any complaining was dismissed as "knee jerk". So it seems like the answer is that there's never an acceptable time to complain about the manager.
It is like teams forms go up and down, crazy right?
Are you sure about that? We had midfields with McT and Amrabat. We had defensive duos of Maguire/Evans/Lindelof. We had a left back that doesnt play for Spurs. We had Antony on the right wing.
There are quite a few Premier League teams who have better starters than those players. Only Martinez, Casemiro, Shaw, Varane, Rashford and Bruno would be 100% starters for most other teams. Four of those were injured quite a bit during the first half of the year. Rashford lost his form. The squad that played most of the games in during the first half of the season really was not that great.
Erm yeah, that’s the point, we played Villa when their form was poor and we still failed to put in a dominating performance, like Chelsea and Newcastle managed with Villa in their current form. Maybe that’s not a concern to you but the performances are still very concerning to me.It is like teams forms go up and down, crazy right?
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Yes let’s laugh at the people who have a semblance of optimism in their lives.
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We should always be able to criticise but at least contextualise before writing someone completely off.
So for example it’s stupid to criticise Ten Hag for the squad being injured and him then struggling to get consistent top performances during this period.
But if we had those same performances with a fully fit or most fit squad then yeah go for it.
3 wins on the bounce laReading all that you’d think we were flying right now and not having our worst season in forever
never mind the 14 losses they were down to injuries.
Others have commented how weak this list is so i wont go over it again.
Its nothing wrong with beeing positive either, but it must be possible to look behind the results.
Btw, you forgot to mention the big record losses we have had under ETH. Losses i personally didnt think was possible.
What i really dont understand is why "you feel sorry for me"...
Like you need to be a mental patient to critizise this ETH fotball week after week.
Quite funny how snowblind you are.
We can agree to disagree, but unfortunatly you are wrong on most of the things that are important.
And I'm another
Why don‘t the moaners go make their own threat where they can discuss how hopeless Ten Hag is etc.
We are winning but you‘d think we are losing. Well done Erik, keep up the hard work.
We are winning but you‘d think we are losing. Well done Erik, keep up the hard work.
Do we not even bother discussing our most recent results and performances because there’s been loads of bad ones already? Maybe take a break from the caf if you’ve no interest in more recent developments.
For some the performance is more important than actually winning, I'm not one of them, winning is what matters, a good performance is the icing on the cake
Football is a game of small margins with a decent amount of luck involved. Winning is what matters, absolutely, but there are many factors that contribute to winning or losing. In THIS thread the only thing I am interested in is: Does EtH's work increase the chance to win the next games?
Clearly they were as there's been no losses since most of those players have come back from injury.
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We`ve had tough close narrow games against all the highlighted teams this season iirc. Even if we actually carry a goalthreat now our games still feels like a toss of a coin. 8-9 wins might still be doable but every game for us is tough.
Did I say that? Sounds more like no criticism allowed during a good run.
There have been a few games in which we played well and lost. If you didn’t say “look behind the results” then as well your post is a joke.
Definitely not an easy or sure fire thing but I think undeniable we’re still in the mix.
I think it’s more that people need to make an effort to enjoy a good run while it lasts. Can’t see any point in ruining the more enjoyable weeks of a season by spending them complaining about shitty weeks from the past. If only for the sake of your own enjoyment. Otherwise what’s the point of even following a team?
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And this is why I say I feel sorry for those doing it.
Weve been so used to feast after feast under Sir Alex some have forgotten how to deal with relative famine.
I know every team can say we shouldn't have lost to this team or that team. But losing at home to C.Palace and Bournemouth was shocking. It's sounds bizarre, but those 6 points would have put us in the title race.
Most if not everyone enjoyed the win during the day. Now that there's been some time to reflect, there's nowt wrong with critiquing our performances. And they aren't even harsh. Based on the way our season went, they are perfectly legitimate concerns. Once the performances start improving and stay consistent, then we can start talking about turning a corner.
Posts like the one on the previous page where half of the list are just normal things expected from a manager, like improving players and dressing room morale, we used to make fun of them on RAWK. There is praising, and then there's that.
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I was literally asked to list things he’d done that were positive.
Your inability to comprehend that is not my issue.
What exactly do you expect Ten Hag to have done this season in the full context of all those injuries?
Mate I comprehended it just fine, I just thought you were stretching it a bit. Only two of them were actual tactical reasons in response to the other poster.
Everybody on here wants us to win. That is why we ”moan”. Problem is, in order to win consistently, as i know everybody in here would like, you must play well, consistently.
If you are open like we are, if you concede chances as frequent as we do, almost every game will be close. Even 4th division Newport managed 17 shots against us. We needed a kiss of luck to win against Wolves, we needed it again against Villa. This little run we are on now just doesn`t feel sustainable, at all. Can nothing but hope that our players can keep the momentum going and keep grinding out results where possible.
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They still carry weight. Historic performance in better conditions (not every man and his dog injured is relevant).
We’ve struggled this season due to injuries. Since having the players back our record has been:
W 2-4
W 3-4
W 3-0
W 1-2
Any further back and we still had massive injury list.
3-6 don’t happen under every manger and it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Ten Hag gave Mainoo the opportunity in pre season and left a space for him in the squad. He also persisted with Garnacho over other signings even Rashford at key points. And if you read up on Højlund he’s worked a lot with the whole squad to get the best out of him. :
https://theathletic.com/5270471/202...manchester-united/?source=user_shared_articleRasmus Hojlund has gone from no goals in 14 league games to five in five, so what has changed?
7. No other United manager has used McTominay this way. It’s unique to Ten Hag and takes advantage of his talents. We bemoaned McFred and him being played deep as a playmaker and so credit where it’s due. Bringing him on at the times he does with the instructions he does could be considered game changing substitutions. But if we only want to see the negative then no credit is given where it’s due. So by that logic any negative impact from a sub isn’t his fault.
10. He got Rashford playing his best football ever last year. This year I don’t think for one second the fault is with Ten Hag for Rashford clearly having personal issues. When he’s overstepped a boundary it’s been reenforced and dealt with appropriately.
16-18 it’s really hard to play excellent football without excellent players. We’ve had AWB at LB with Evans at CB and Eriksen at CM with Mainoo as recently back as the Spurs game. We’re heading in the right direction we’ve been ridiculously unfortunate.
For what it’s worth I appreciate your posts. You’re critical but you at least give an explanation of your reasoning (even though I may disagree with it) so thank you.
1-2 We’ve just won a couple of tough away fixtures.
3/4/5/6 - Glad we agree and yeah to be fair I’d hope a good manager could help young players develop. It’s still a positive though.
7/14 - McTominay has been a necessity due to injury. Not a long term solution. I see it more as we had limited options and without Hojlund he was a needed physical threat.
8 - Sancho basically called him a liar in public. Ten Hags original comment is no worse than any I’ve seen by widely accepted elite mangers like Pep and Klopp. Sancho clearly hasn’t been professional and needs holding to account. We are not responsible for others behaviour only how we handle it. ETH sent a clear message. No matter the price tag, it’s not acceptable.
11 - He didn’t let Ronaldo (who was a knob) walk over him, he’s not let Sancho, Rashford or any other player do so either. He’s also allowed those like Maguire to come back when they’ve shown the level required (and Maguire got MOTM last game). He’s stuck by old enough if good enough mentality too.
12/3 - Recruitment the players I’d class as proper signings are:
Martinez
Højlund
Mount
Onana
Antony
The rest have been stop gaps or clear club signings and it’s a complete myth to suggest that any manager has a success rate much higher than the above.
15 - Real Madrid have been dominating European football for the last 10-15 year with a settled manager and project. We aren’t at their level in terms of how our squad is built. They just have better players in midfield, and attack. Far superiorThey have a squad that even when playing with those injuries had:
Lunin
Vazquez Tchouameni Carvajal Mendy
Kroos
Valverde Camavinga
Bellingham
Rodrygo Vinicius
16 - The matches where we had Martinez, Shaw and Casemiro with Onana (especially those with Mainoo we’ve been much better.
17 - I agree we absolutely need to turn more of those opportunities into goals but we’ve got a young striker in his debut season and a 18/9 year old winger playing RW for the first time in his career.
18 - The other poster was critical of me not including more tactical changes so I can’t win either way here. But I could if people wanted to a longer thread (and it would have to be a thread) on the tactical changes and benefits ten hag has brought to expand on these points.
19 - Or you could argue it’s being unfairly tarnished this season by an unprecedented difficult set of circumstances and when he’s got everyone back fit it’ll revert back to his record win % which 4 wins in 4 would suggest might be the case.
I support the club. Especially through its most trying times like having your defence, midfield and key attackers out injured for over half the season.
In fact challenge for you:
- Name United’s strongest current XI
- Count how many times we’ve played that side this season.
Do you want a full tactical breakdown of Ten Hag and the changes he’s made to our play?
If I do that and show you where he’s improved us are you a) going to read it and watch it and b) be open to accepting those facts?
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Yep. I 'moaned' at the football when we were finishing 3rd but I was happy we did. At the end of last season I could see where we're heading if we didn't improve, and this season is the result. Not that anyone would admit I was right with my concerns.
The recent performances haven't changed significantly, only the results have. That will catch up with us if we don't improve.
Ok, yeah. There’s a difference between enjoying a decent run of form/results and using them as a reason to retrospectively make what went before any less shit. I’m in the camp that thinks - even allowing for excuses like our crazy amount of injuries - ETH should have had this team playing much better than it has done so far this season. So I’m not excusing the horror show that was 2023. I haven’t totally given up on him though. And it’s definitely possible this could be the start of something significant. So I’m happy to enjoy the ride while it lasts, without digging for flaws or reasons to undermine our last few results. God knows we haven’t had many spells like we’re having now over the last several years so makes sense to enjoy it as much as possible, right?
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I’d also like to add to the above that I don’t think Ten Hag has made perfect decisions during this period of injury but I also don’t think he’s made horrendous and irrevocable errors that would necessitate his removal.
The main thing id like answered here though is:
The main thing id like answered here though is:
- Name United’s strongest current XI
- Count how many times we’ve played that side this season.
I'm aware of how toxic and negative the forum had become at times in the past, and of course I don't want negativity all the time. Best thing is to strike a balance somewhere in the middle, with giving the manager some credit, a decent amount of optimism, and healthy open discussion about any concerns, and keeping up standards ie not going overboard after a win or two. Probably not as easy as it sounds.
Of course, happy to read them. I didn't even want to argue with your original post, thats why I only responded with a joke, as I didn't think it was a serious post at first, there were so many repetitive points. But okay, you were just listing all of the good he's done, fine. I don't want to stop you or anyone else from being positive.
Well done @BenitoSTARR. Enjoyed reading that.
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It was only made because someone asked what has he done that’s positive.
A lot of it is incredibly obvious and as some would argue cherry picked but it’s all true from my point of view.
If I get a bit of time tomorrow I’ll firstly see if we actually have a Manchester United’s tactical thread and if not I’ll post in there to show the difference Ten Hag has made (because it is there if you know what you’re looking for).
The balance for me comes from being critical when there is no reasonable explanation for under performance.
So for example if we were in our current position of 0 GD and 5 points off Aston Villa but had a fully fit squad I’d be just as annoyed and vocal as many others.
So to be clear. Ten Hag for my money is doing a good job in context. He’s not this season done a great job but I’m fully aware that the context would be naive to ignore and gloss over in some vain attempt at “having standards” or whatever buzz word is used now.
There have been things tactically that have worried me, the midfield chasm from Wolves for example was shocking and being outplayed by Brighton early in the season was a concern but as the season has progressed I’ve watched our build up have clearer patterns and structures that enable us to move up the pitch.
The other thing that concerned me was the lack of goals, very explainable, but still worrying and is as much a personnel issue as it is anything else. Again though it’s showed green shoots with Højlund in the CL for example or his most recent run of 5 in 5 I think it is?
I do believe that when we have most of our squad fit we’ll beat most sides far more often than we’ll lose and I think that is credit to the job Ten Hag, his staff and the squad.
TLDR: it’s not all rosy and sunshine but it’s not doom and gloom when you put things into context there is plenty to be happy with and equally lots that I now am expecting to be sorted out over the next few months.
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