Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[TomSkalle]

100%. I can’t believe some expect us to dominate a legitimate top 4 contender away from home when they already have wins against Arsenal and city. Delusional and irrational perfectly describes the miserable section of our supporters who want ten Hag to fail.

I dont think anybody want ETH to fail, i think people want to se signs of something. Anything at all.
I will gladly appologize in a couple of years if that means ETH has been sucsessfull
All i can see at the moment is going from week to week putting out fires.
.

 

[horsechoker]

XG table has us at 12th which feels far more in line with our performances than 6th. We've riding our luck massively at the minute, there's no way on this earth we keep picking up points if we keep playing the way we have been doing, you can't concede as many clear chances as we do and keep getting away with it.

But xG is subjective and we had games where bad finishing let us down. We've put together a mini run since Højlund has started scoring, Garnacho has played more and Casemiro and Martinez came back.

 

[Mockney]

You are speaking as if Villa is prime Barca. They won their last trophy almost 20 years ago and they just got promoted back to EPL on 2019. Fans like you are the reason this club dropped its standard. We are fecking United, we should do better than this. The forfeiture of your post is off the charts

Some of our results against Villa away from home under prime Alex Ferguson sides…

92 - lost 0-1
94 - lost 1-3
95 - lost 1-3
96 - drew 0-0
99 - lost 0-3
01 - drew 1-1
02 - won 3-2 after coming from 2 goals down
02 - 07 - won by a single goal 3 times
08 - drew 0-0
10 - drew 1-1
10/11 - drew 2-2
11 - 12 - won by a single goal twice

Now obviously we should be beating Villa in most scenarios, but to act like it’s some piss easy fixture we should be waltzing through like in the good old days is some ahistorical shit

There’s plenty of stuff to criticise ETH for without having to pretend be annoyed at objectively decent results

 

[RedSky]

I guess people haven't learnt from the previous 8 years at United. How many corners have we turned only for us to fall head first into the next hole of gloom.

If by the end of March we're still undefeated then perhaps we're heading in the right direction but until that point I will remain cautious.

We got lucky against Villa, it's about time we get a little luck and we're finally looking better offensively. But it will be typical United to fall at Luton.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I guess people haven't learnt from the previous 8 years at United. How many corners have we turned only for us to fall head first into the next hole of gloom.

If by the end of March we're still undefeated then perhaps we're heading in the right direction but until that point I will remain cautious.

We got lucky against Villa, it's about time we get a little luck and we're finally looking better offensively. But it will be typical United to fall at Luton.

I think you have to zoom out more than this. The reality is we have to slightly improve our points per game, it's not that big a jump to go from where we are to the CL spots. We're on track for around 65 points but that has been creeping up over the last few weeks, I don't think it unrealistic even dropping points at Luton to climb into the 70 points bracket. That means of 42 available points left, we need 29.

Our issue before we we didn't score at all, we had almost no goal threat, the recent performances have suggested we might be solving those issues. We are not close to the level of the top 3 teams but otherwise it's fair game.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

But xG is subjective and we had games where bad finishing let us down. We've put together a mini run since Højlund has started scoring, Garnacho has played more and Casemiro and Martinez came back.

I mean maybe a little, but we also just didn’t create much over the course of games so the one or two chances we created and missed just made it seem worse than it really was.

 

[Jeffthered]

But there hasn’t been an entire lack of structure.

If we’re going to be critical here then be specific otherwise you just sound like an ill informed sound bite.

What exactly do you mean because I haven’t seen a complete lack of structure.

What I have seen is players struggle to play as quickly and confidently through the thirds due to a lack of Shaw, Martinez and Casemiro who are our best on the ball options to get the ball higher up the pitch at the right times.

Instead we’ve had Evans, Maguire/Lindelof and Reguilón who can’t get a game for Spurs. Along with Amrabat/McTominay which everyone knows is not a title challenging defence or midfield.

The truth of the matter is to get your best structure and performances you need your best players. Ideally playing together regularly until they fully grasp what their jobs are in relation to one another. Then with good recruitment (which shouldn’t be Ten Hags job) you add players that work well for your style and team.

We are a developing side not a title winning one.

I find the rhetoric from some quite, quite incredible when we string together a few wins. Memories are short. And look where we are? And that's success? Building towards success? How many players would you keep for next season, really, and expect us to challenge for let's say, top three, and a deeep CL run? Who?

And some seem to forget that ETH has spent bucket-loads!

Now I see people posting that recruitment is not his job? I understand the new roles in clubs, but I know that Klopp and Pep, Ange and fair few others, buy the players that they want. And now some on here are saying that shouldn't be ETH's job? Because we have won three on the bounce?

How many players have played to their potential under ETH? Dalot has improved quite recently, Garnacho is learning... but who else?

If you're awaiting a fully-fit squad to choose from to win a league, Cup or the Champions League then you will be waiting a v v v long time. You have to build a squad and improve your players.

Let me ask two questions with those satisfied (all of a sudden) with ETH:

1: If we retain this squad, do you think we will improve next season?
2: And do you think we will get closer to the other teams who will also be looking to improve next season.

Because I am not convinced. We need a radical shift to achieve the consistent level of performance that befits this club. £400m hasn't done it yet under ETH. I don't hate the guy, I just think he talks a good game and still isn't clear what he wants Man Utd first XI to be, or play etc.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I guess people haven't learnt from the previous 8 years at United. How many corners have we turned only for us to fall head first into the next hole of gloom.

If by the end of March we're still undefeated then perhaps we're heading in the right direction but until that point I will remain cautious.

We got lucky against Villa, it's about time we get a little luck and we're finally looking better offensively. But it will be typical United to fall at Luton.

Yeah the issue is so many fans are results oriented over process oriented. Which isn’t surprising as at the end of the day we all just want to see United win, but its why it feels like there are so many “false dawns” when we put together a great run of results that aren’t actually good performances.

Winning at Villa is a very good result. Winning the way we did was very lucky and not remotely sustainable. Both things can be true which is why we get these arguments of fans thinking those of us that aren’t completely satisfied just “want ETH to fail” while some of us get frustrated by everyone acting like we are all good now because our forwards are in form and we’ve finalky gotten some decent results.

 

[AltiUn]

But xG is subjective and we had games where bad finishing let us down. We've put together a mini run since Højlund has started scoring, Garnacho has played more and Casemiro and Martinez came back.

XG isn't subjective though, it's just data and the data shows we're creating worse scoring opportunities than our opposition in the majority of games we play, hence the riding our luck part. Not only are we not creating a wealth of opportunities but we're conceding a lot of them too. Hojlund has been very clinical lately but we can't bank on him scoring every single chance he has, the fact we only create one chance for him a game is bad enough. It's fantastic we have actually started picking up points but if we want to do it consistently then we need to address the structural issues within the team, currently the way we set up our midfield is just leaving a massive, massive hole in our team allowing the opposition to waltz through us and create opportunities at will.

 

[horsechoker]

XG isn't subjective though, it's just data and the data shows we're creating worse scoring opportunities than our opposition in the majority of games we play, hence the riding our luck part. Not only are we not creating a wealth of opportunities but we're conceding a lot of them too. Hojlund has been very clinical lately but we can't bank on him scoring every single chance he has, the fact we only create one chance for him a game is bad enough. It's fantastic we have actually started picking up points but if we want to do it consistently then we need to address the structural issues within the team, currently the way we set up our midfield is just leaving a massive, massive hole in our team allowing the opposition to waltz through us and create opportunities at will.

How is it not subjective?

It's probability but who determines the probability? It's people.

 

[RedSky]

I think you have to zoom out more than this. The reality is we have to slightly improve our points per game, it's not that big a jump to go from where we are to the CL spots. We're on track for around 65 points but that has been creeping up over the last few weeks, I don't think it unrealistic even dropping points at Luton to climb into the 70 points bracket. That means of 42 available points left, we need 29.

Our issue before we we didn't score at all, we had almost no goal threat, the recent performances have suggested we might be solving those issues. We are not close to the level of the top 3 teams but otherwise it's fair game.

We didn't score, we leaked goals in. Young players go through waves of form. We're on a high right now as our young players are going through a purple patch of form and we're playing teams that are in crisis mode.

I would say it's unrealistic, we won't just suddenly flick a switch and go on a long run of decent form. Our season will fall apart when we face City. The only slight ray of hope is the remaining away games other than City aren't too bad.

In any case I will remain sceptical as United teams always manage to disappoint us.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

How is it not subjective?

It's probability but who determines the probability? It's people.

No? It’s literally based on historic data of shots taken with the exact same characteristics as the current one being measured. It’s not some bloke saying “ah yeah that’s a goal 25% of the time I think normally so that’s .25xg”

 

[tomaldinho1]

We didn't score, we leaked goals in. Young players go through waves of form. We're on a high right now as our young players are going through a purple patch of form and we're playing teams that are in crisis mode.

I would say it's unrealistic, we won't just suddenly flick a switch and go on a long run of decent form. Our season will fall apart when we face City. The only slight ray of hope is the remaining away games other than City aren't too bad.

In any case I will remain sceptical as United teams always manage to disappoint us.

You say that but to achieve what I wrote is basically 8-9 wins and some draws.

Luton, Fulham, City, Everton, Sheffield United, Brentford, Chelsea, Pool, Bmouth, Newcastle, Burnley, Palace, Ars, Brighton

Beat the weaker teams and we're basically there even if we get thrashed by City, Pool and Arsenal.

 

[horsechoker]

No? It’s literally based on historic data of shots taken with the exact same characteristics as the current one being measured. It’s not some bloke saying “ah yeah that’s a goal 25% of the time I think normally so that’s .25xg”

Who measures the values of those shots? Are those shots measured on a binary of score or not score?

The scale starts out from impossible to score but what is impossible if the ball is in play and the shot is onside?

It also takes into account patterns of open play but this is once again subjective as it's partially down to happenstance in some cases.

I'm not saying it is bad but it's not something that is always perfect and we shouldn't say that we should be exactly where xG puts us as games don't get played on pure stats.

 

[Juice Juiced]

Are we a big club or we are accepting being trashed by City, Liv and Arsenal. Most hilariously by Arsenal.

Standards are in the mud.


Edit, spelling.

 

[Stadjer]

Are we a big club or we are accepting being trashed by City, Liv and Arsenal. Most hilariously by Arsenal.

Standars are in the mud.

After years of miss management we are behind those clubs. That has nothing to do with standards but with being realistic. Doesnt mean we have to stay behind them or have no chance of getting ahead of them again, but they are ahead of Manchester United right now.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Are we a big club or we are accepting being trashed by City, Liv and Arsenal. Most hilariously by Arsenal.

Standards are in the mud.


Edit, spelling.

Yes that's what I said, keeping on trucking Juicy

 

[stefan92]

Who measures the values of those shots? Are those shots measured on a binary of score or not score?

The scale starts out from impossible to score but what is impossible if the ball is in play and the shot is onside?

It also takes into account patterns of open play but this is once again subjective as it's partially down to happenstance in some cases.

I'm not saying it is bad but it's not something that is always perfect and we shouldn't say that we should be exactly where xG puts us as games don't get played on pure stats.

It's just statistics over thousands of shots. If 100 shots from a certain position lead to 20 goals, it's an xG of 0.2. So far so straightforward. The calculation gets a bit more complicated (but much better) if it also has to include the position of other players etc, but the logic always is the same: Group similar situations together and just calculate how many goals were scored per situation. That's the base for the xG value, and then whenever a shot is made it's just looked up in the database how such situations historically went.

There is nothing subjective about it, it's just statistics (albeit more complicated then just counting shots etc).

 

[Juice Juiced]

Yes that's what I said, keeping on trucking Juicy

I only drive trains, if you are interested hit me up.

 

[evil_geko]

Seems to be conveniently ignoring they got turned over their last 2 home games against teams lower than us in the table, Chelsea played them off the park.

And Villa played City off the park unlike any team before, so all those comparisons mean feck all.

 

[AltiUn]

And Villa played City off the park unlike any team before, so all those comparisons mean feck all.

Sort of does when those results happened in the same fecking week leading up to the match

 

[Stadjer]

I find the rhetoric from some quite, quite incredible when we string together a few wins. Memories are short. And look where we are? And that's success? Building towards success? How many players would you keep for next season, really, and expect us to challenge for let's say, top three, and a deeep CL run? Who?

And some seem to forget that ETH has spent bucket-loads!

Now I see people posting that recruitment is not his job? I understand the new roles in clubs, but I know that Klopp and Pep, Ange and fair few others, buy the players that they want. And now some on here are saying that shouldn't be ETH's job? Because we have won three on the bounce?

How many players have played to their potential under ETH? Dalot has improved quite recently, Garnacho is learning... but who else?

If you're awaiting a fully-fit squad to choose from to win a league, Cup or the Champions League then you will be waiting a v v v long time. You have to build a squad and improve your players.

Let me ask two questions with those satisfied (all of a sudden) with ETH:

1: If we retain this squad, do you think we will improve next season?
2: And do you think we will get closer to the other teams who will also be looking to improve next season.

Because I am not convinced. We need a radical shift to achieve the consistent level of performance that befits this club. £400m hasn't done it yet under ETH. I don't hate the guy, I just think he talks a good game and still isn't clear what he wants Man Utd first XI to be, or play etc.

All clubs in the Premier League are spending bucket loads. Chelsea has been spending even more and are lower in the league table. Jury is out on Onana but so far i would only really consider Antony as a failed signing that cost way too much for what he gives back to the team. Mount isnt a bad player but injuries make it difficult to judge him now. I guess you can label him a flop but without playing games that seems a bit unfair at this point.

Rashford had the best season of his career with ETH in charge. Hojlund seems to be on the upwards path in his development. Mainoo got given his chance by ETH and likely will become better and better over time. Garnacho is being developed and improving. ETH has even got Maguire out of meme status. McT never scored as much as he does now because Ole and Mourinho used him as a defensive midfielder.

So yes, quite a few players are developing and likely would be better next year. If that is a year where ETH doesnt miss Martinez, Casemiro and Shaw at the same time for almost half a season, performances will be better (like it is when they are playing this year). If ETH is allowed to stay for another season, i believe performances will improve. Add a good signing to that and the team should be better next year. It will be important to get the big money signing right though. No Antony or injury issues like Mount.

I believe that missing Martinez is huge. ETH still has players from former managers and doesnt have a player that can replace Martinez and play like Martinez. Bringing on Maguire for Martinez is not just a huge difference in quality but also in playstyle between the two players.

 

[evil_geko]

Sort of does when those results happened in the same fecking week leading up to the match

There is no sort of, those comparisons are so simplistic and lazy. If only football worked as simple as that, good thing is that it doesn't.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Ill turn it around, what has been good?
If we are aiming for positivity.

What do you think ETH is doing right with this team?
The only thing that has been positive in my eyes is the 3 youngsters, and thats it. And ETH bought 1 of them. I do belive the 2 others would have had the same development under other managers.

We have nonexistent offensive buildup.
We are not good at set pieces/corners.
We cant defend as a team.
We cant hold the ball as a team.
We cant pass as a team
And we are not press resistant.
We arent even that good at counterattacking, even if we should be with the players we have.

I dont think ETH is especially good at picking teams either, he doesnt rotate the squad as much as he should. And even if McTomminay has come on and scored a couple, i even feel alot of the subs can be critizised. (over the season)

Its not about beeing lazy and generalizing when the shoe fits the foot.
Another thing that has been mentioned are results vs actuall play.

I mean, we dont even look as a good team on the pitch.
We look disorganized, we dont pull toghether, and defence are in panic mode most of the time because they clearly have not been getting the rights instructions.

Then add the fact that ETH was bought to change United into a club playing modern fotball.
He was bought to bring the passing style from Ajax.
He has bought 10+ players, and nothing has changed. Nothing.
Let that sink in.

And how do we play?
We play reactionary fotball. The same fotball we played under Ole, but ETH is even worse than Ole at it.
He cant set up a proper defence, and he cant even set up a decent counterattack.

Be as positive as you like.
Nobody wanted this to work more than me, and i was very glad when we signed ETH.
But this, and several other things i havent even started talking about, isnt good enough.

No lucky wins will change that, and having Shaw or Martinez back wont change it either.
I hope you will be able to tell me "i told you so"
But it wont happen.

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

There is more but you won’t listen even if I post it and I disagree with large parts of what you’ve said. Name me the 10+ players he’s supposedly signed for example because that one is hilarious!

With regards to what you think you’re seeing on the pitch I suggest you look into tactics a bit more.

I feel sorry for you.

I find the rhetoric from some quite, quite incredible when we string together a few wins. Memories are short. And look where we are? And that's success? Building towards success? How many players would you keep for next season, really, and expect us to challenge for let's say, top three, and a deeep CL run? Who?

And some seem to forget that ETH has spent bucket-loads!

Now I see people posting that recruitment is not his job? I understand the new roles in clubs, but I know that Klopp and Pep, Ange and fair few others, buy the players that they want. And now some on here are saying that shouldn't be ETH's job? Because we have won three on the bounce?

How many players have played to their potential under ETH? Dalot has improved quite recently, Garnacho is learning... but who else?

If you're awaiting a fully-fit squad to choose from to win a league, Cup or the Champions League then you will be waiting a v v v long time. You have to build a squad and improve your players.

Let me ask two questions with those satisfied (all of a sudden) with ETH:

1: If we retain this squad, do you think we will improve next season?
2: And do you think we will get closer to the other teams who will also be looking to improve next season.

Because I am not convinced. We need a radical shift to achieve the consistent level of performance that befits this club. £400m hasn't done it yet under ETH. I don't hate the guy, I just think he talks a good game and still isn't clear what he wants Man Utd first XI to be, or play etc.

Again I think you’re so far from having a contextual understanding of the league that I can’t be bothered spending any more time today.

Tag me tomorrow and I’ll have the energy to go again.

Look at how many players have been and gone under Guardiola in his time at City and look at the pace at which they are swapped out. It all takes time and structure above the manager too.

 

[hobbers]

If ETH were to get another season that means giving him a new contract.

That also means giving him a say in signings in the summer when we should have a reasonably big budget. He will likely make his influence on transfer dealings part of his contract negotiations, because he probably correctly realises everyone now thinks him and his agent pal are clueless.

And ultimately that means wasting another 2 seasons or more before any proper progress can start to happen, and that's assuming he isn't given free reign to sign more Mounts and Antonys. Enough of them sets us back maybe 4-5 years.

 

[mu4c_20le]

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

There is more but you won’t listen even if I post it and I disagree with large parts of what you’ve said. Name me the 10+ players he’s supposedly signed for example because that one is hilarious!

With regards to what you think you’re seeing on the pitch I suggest you look into tactics a bit more.

I feel sorry for you.

Again I think you’re so far from having a contextual understanding of the league that I can’t be bothered spending any more time today.

Tag me tomorrow and I’ll have the energy to go again.

Look at how many players have been and gone under Guardiola in his time at City and look at the pace at which they are swapped out. It all takes time and structure above the manager too.

Next Pep

 

[Bowlcut11]

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

There is more but you won’t listen even if I post it and I disagree with large parts of what you’ve said. Name me the 10+ players he’s supposedly signed for example because that one is hilarious!

With regards to what you think you’re seeing on the pitch I suggest you look into tactics a bit more.

This is a great post and sums up my feelings on ETH perfectly.

I understand people are frustrated with results but there have been so many mitigating circumstances this season. We all saw what this team is capable of last season and I do believe injuries are the cause of the poor performances this year.

Unlucky that Martinez and possibly Shaw are now out again as that left hand side is the key to our good performances and 'unlocking' Rashford again

 

[Gehrman]

Are we a big club or we are accepting being trashed by City, Liv and Arsenal. Most hilariously by Arsenal.

Standards are in the mud.


Edit, spelling.

This. People can talk about the real madrid circus, or Chelsea or Barcelona. They managed to win the biggest trophies in the meantime. We literally have the lowest standards for the supposed biggest club in the world.

 

[AltiUn]

There is no sort of, those comparisons are so simplistic and lazy. If only football worked as simple as that, good thing is that it doesn't.

Just saying something is simplistic and lazy doesn't make it true, they were played off the park in consecutive games at home, we then played them at home in the same time frame ... yeah, real lazy comparison, their game against City 2 months ago was the real barometer.

 

[bond19821982]

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

There is more but you won’t listen even if I post it and I disagree with large parts of what you’ve said. Name me the 10+ players he’s supposedly signed for example because that one is hilarious!

With regards to what you think you’re seeing on the pitch I suggest you look into tactics a bit more.

I feel sorry for you.

Again I think you’re so far from having a contextual understanding of the league that I can’t be bothered spending any more time today.

Tag me tomorrow and I’ll have the energy to go again.

Look at how many players have been and gone under Guardiola in his time at City and look at the pace at which they are swapped out. It all takes time and structure above the manager too.

Please book mark this. As fans, we don't have patience. I know a poster who went against Ralf after 3 weeks . This is the situation we are in.

ETH deserves a fair shot with some stable hierarchy above him.

 

[hobbers]

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

1, 2, 19. Carry no weight now after getting dumped out of an easy CL group in last place, sitting 6 points off the top four on 0 goal difference. 50% win rate this season. 42% defeat rate. They just serve to highlight how far backwards we've gone.
3-6. would have happened regardless, under any manager. Reminiscent of those who used Januzaj to prop up Moyes or Rashford to prop up LVG.
7, 14. Equivalent to Moyes signing and using Fellaini.
10. He maybe dealt with Rashford in terms of standard disciplinary procedures, but currently he's a husk of a player who's rapidly losing value and looks like his career will peter out. No one could say Rashford's wild but oh so predictable decline from last season to this is something that is a plus in the ETH in column.
15. Nothing unprecedented about having a long-term injured centreback and injury prone left back. And relying on two past-their-best Real Madrid players.
16-18. Haven't resulted in football that's good to watch or that gets results. Not to mention so many results ranging from abject and embarrassing to unprecedented disasters.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

There is more but you won’t listen even if I post it and I disagree with large parts of what you’ve said. Name me the 10+ players he’s supposedly signed for example because that one is hilarious!

With regards to what you think you’re seeing on the pitch I suggest you look into tactics a bit more.

I feel sorry for you.

Again I think you’re so far from having a contextual understanding of the league that I can’t be bothered spending any more time today.

Tag me tomorrow and I’ll have the energy to go again.

Look at how many players have been and gone under Guardiola in his time at City and look at the pace at which they are swapped out. It all takes time and structure above the manager too.

I love your posts.....

I would add, when he joined our world record defender, Maguire, looked entirely like a busted flush. Regardless of whether ETH wanted him offloaded in the summer, Maguires performances in November and in last game (that looks like hes gonnd continue on his form) actually make him a valuable player to the squad and potentially if we sell. I wouldnt sell Maguire (if hes ok with 3rd choice CB) and would expect 40mil at least if he goes, thats fantastic when you think of him being booed by his own idiotic fans in friendlies.

Ive also not seen a recovery (of sorts) that we look like we might be getting. Unde Jose/Ole it got to the stage where it was really toxic, but there was no mitigating reasons that can reasonably be accounted for with ETH.

What managers in the EPL have had in their first 13 months:

- Savage Injury crisis, I cant remember it being this bad, not just that people quoting other clubs as if "look at that club missing players" is the same. Hard to quantify, but even if you look at Martinez returning, hes out again, Shaw is out again. Same thing happened with maguire when he was playing great and he got injured, we have had NO luck with injuries.
- Club future up in air 5 months into ETH joining the club , which by default does raise questions about managers position (as new owners sometimes replace managers regardless of what they are doing)
- Individual player dramas, 4, within 13 months arriving at the club
- Taking over a club "in crisis"
-Taking the blame for transfers, at a club with a terrible transfer record, including the over paying for players, that same club has FFP issues because of how poorly its been run, but "spending 80 mil in Anthony" is quoted as the problem
- a club thats equally sh*t at squad management, but manager is supposedly at fault for not having a striker or getting Weghorst or signing certain loan players as if he had an open chequebook
- Club is relying on 1 fit striker all season, an unproven 20 year old who never played in the league and who joined injured
- Manager has needed 3 players Under 21 to be consistent starters - says it all about the squad mismanagement that we needed it, but not just that, every other decent top club would have strong senior alternatives to be able to take these players out of the firing line (particularly as youth players are notoriously inconsistent), our manager has to suck it up
- Arguably clubs best attacking player last season struggling badly with some sort of innner demons that nobody is blaming on manager
- Expectations at united, last year we over achieved, this year is probably more like one would of expected last season, but "400 million spent" so expectation is that the graph of improvement should be linear upwards regardless of all the other variables at play
- Spurs manager, Brighton manager, "that manager over there hes better this week" shite every f**king week, relentless bullsh*t hyperbolic over reaction

In terms of transfers, theres an argument that his ones have actually been the most successful overall. Look back to 2013 and find me 2 transfer summers where we had the kinds of signings like Martinez, Casemiro and Hoijland ? I think Onana is improving and nobody can blame ETH that Mount and Malacia have been injured (no matter how much they complain). I think our hit rate with players is pathetic, ETH is better then that so I am not sure why people are making so much about it as if United usually gets its transfers spot on.

I would also add that the issue with United is that we have had so many poor transfers over the last decade, that ETH is the one now having to deal with it. FFP is not a manager problem, its how the club has been conducting itself in purchases/sales.

And if anybody thinks this post is something like "ETH is infallible, he has been perfect and irreproachable", then dont reply becasue thats what dumb people think and you dont want to look dumb. I think ETH entire tenure at United has been filled with unparrallelled issues that no manager is having to navigate in such a short period of time. I dont think hes perfect, but I also dont think he has been able to really show us what he can do becasue of issues (many which arent his fault) that have worked significantly against him.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

1, 2, 19. Carry no weight now after getting dumped out of an easy CL group in last place, sitting 6 points off the top four on 0 goal difference. 50% win rate this season. 42% defeat rate. They just serve to highlight how far backwards we've gone.
3-6. would have happened regardless, under any manager. Reminiscent of those who used Januzaj to prop up Moyes or Rashford to prop up LVG.
7, 14. Equivalent to Moyes signing and using Fellaini.
10. He maybe dealt with Rashford in terms of standard disciplinary procedures, but currently he's a husk of a player who's rapidly losing value and looks like his career will peter out. No one could say Rashford's wild but oh so predictable decline from last season to this is something that is a plus in the ETH in column.
15. Nothing unprecedented about having a long-term injured centreback and injury prone left back. And relying on two past-their-best Real Madrid players.
16-18. Haven't resulted in football that's good to watch or that gets results. Not to mention so many results ranging from abject and embarrassing to unprecedented disasters.

Yeah, na.

Well just agree to disagree I don’t have the energy today but remind me tomorrow and I’ll respond properly.

 

[stefan92]

This is a great post and sums up my feelings on ETH perfectly.

I understand people are frustrated with results but there have been so many mitigating circumstances this season. We all saw what this team is capable of last season and I do believe injuries are the cause of the poor performances this year.

Unlucky that Martinez and possibly Shaw are now out again as that left hand side is the key to our good performances and 'unlocking' Rashford again

You know what's funny? I'm perfectly happy with the results considering how bad the team played. I am unhappy with the performances. Especially considering how some things went very well last season and were actually actively weakened by how EtH tried to evolve the team. I also think those changes he did enhanced the impact of some of the injuries instead of mitigating them (especially Casemiro).

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

That's a very good list to have a discussion about, thanks for that! Allow me to go through it and explain why I am not that happy with EtH than you are:
1./2. yes, it was a good first season he had in regard to that. Despite that we had early warning signs - the late drop in form and the inability to win touch away matches.
3./4./5./6. I agree that these players evolved positively and EtH is right to trust them. That's on par with what I expect of a manager, but still good.
7./14. I really have mixed feelings about all this McTominay story. Did he bail out United multiple times? Yes, which is great for him. Did that lead EtH to rely on McTominay to a degree that it hurt how the team actually plays? Sadly yes. McT worked great as an impact sub, and that's absolutely fine to have and use that option. But starting him for this role as a goal-scoring "10" actually hurt the team more than it helped. He simply is not Bellingham who plays exactly this role for Real. For me this is a plus for McTominay, but a minus for EtH.
8./9./10. A bit of mixed feelings. I agree on Ronaldo and Rashford, I am not that sure about Sancho, because the whole Sancho at United saga is weird. Something really went wrong with him, and I really are not sure what it actually was. So I just exclude that one player issue from my EtH rating.
11. Hm... at times it did feel quite the opposite. He seems to have gotten things right, but often only after a long time. Definitely not a plus in my book. I simply trust every run of the mill manager to do this to a similar or better degree.
12./13. Just no. Yes, these two are good signings, but mentioning them is just cherrypicking. Overall EtH signed to many players who are not up to the required standard or don't really fit the team, that recruitment overall is a clear minus for me.
15. Real Madrid just took over the lead in La Liga by convincingly beating the former leaders Girona. The twist? All their CBs were injured. Yes, United had a lot of injuries and that of course has an impact, but this stuff about "unprecedented injuries" isn't that simple. Would Mainoo have gotten as many minutes without Casemiro's injury? I doubt it. My stance on this simply is: United is one of the most financially powerful teams in the world and continued to build the team in EtH's mind after a good first season. Qualifying for the CL again is the absolute minimum in this case and the only reason why it's justified to not immediately sack him right now for the league position is this injury crisis. Still also this just seems to be on par and not anything special for me.
16. How do you know? Was there a single match with everyone fit?
17. That's statistically true. It's however a disaster how little this is converted into goals.
18. I guess you can count this as a plus. Seems however to be a minor detail and therefore a bit cherrypicked (like the signings)
19. That's bolstered by his good first season and not that indicative of what he is doing now. Also he has a quite bad loss % as well, his approach simply doesn't lead to draws. Which is a valid philosophical choice, but means that his points per match are not outstanding and losing many matches is quite terrible for cup competitions (funny how he won a cup nonetheless, but it showed in the CL this season).

So overall I agree on some points, but I think some don't look that great when looking at their context and some are just cherrypicking.

 

[Adam McNeill]

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

I love this post; I think ETH is doing a good job as well, certainly more good than bad!

 

[tomaldinho1]

If ETH were to get another season that means giving him a new contract.

That also means giving him a say in signings in the summer when we should have a reasonably big budget. He will likely make his influence on transfer dealings part of his contract negotiations, because he probably correctly realises everyone now thinks him and his agent pal are clueless.

And ultimately that means wasting another 2 seasons or more before any proper progress can start to happen, and that's assuming he isn't given free reign to sign more Mounts and Antonys. Enough of them sets us back maybe 4-5 years.

This is fine though, he just can't pick targets. The issue we have had since SAF is a manager comes in, has some key names they want and then when we don't get that player, there is no back up option. How can you do from FdJ to Casemiro, apart from the fact they broadly play DM, they couldn't be more dissimilar. We went from being priced out of Kane to Hojlund an unproven kid with like 10 games in Serie A. There's just zero planning.

ETH can have final choice once the recruitment team have identified players for each position, scouted them and then made a recommendation to the DoF. The the margin for error is miminal and the manager still has some say whilst not actually being that influential.

 

[Gordon Godot]

who is digging out ten hag this season that also did so for solskjaer? out of interest. Secondly, i would say that criticism of both solskjaer and ten hag is way over the top and 3rd last season with this team, plus and trophy- and lets see how this season plays out - is about right for the team as it is. Solskjaer as 'moments fc' is a huge myth too. He wasnt the right man for us, but we actually played good football for long spells and his performances against city, particularly a two nil away were as good a tactical showing as ive seen from any united side. Our pressing and discipline was brilliant that day, it wasnt a case of hit and hope counter attack stuff, there was real shape and organisation.

Lastly, I agree we should be scoring far more. Our first half of the season was abysmal and obviously raises questions about ten hag. However, on the flip side, weve scored 15 in our last 5, 17 goals since the turn of the year and the return of some semblance of consistency in key areas. You cannot watch modern football and truly believe even the best 4 attackers will be functional without a solid midfield and full backs behind them. Its all linked theres no question, and if you gave city the extent of injuries weve had to their central defenders, full backs and key midfield 6 and 8, then you can be absolutely certain that all of their attackers goal and assists tallies would be lower. Its not that theres no truth in what you're saying, there is, and we shouldnt have looked so poor- but i really would suggest looking at our line ups week on week. It was a truly freak run of injuries so that our current situation of having 3 first teamers at a time out injured seems normal.

This is pathetic. How is criticism of Ole 'way over the top'. We played some exciting games but also were very one dimensional and soon got found out. Both Ole and ETH spent a lot of money on players, we consistenly had the highest wage bill, yet we never looked like genuinely challenging for the title. Also too often the football was just poor

What has been good:

1. Winning a trophy in first season
2. Finishing 3rd first season
3. Development of Mainoo
4. Development of Garnacho
5. Development of Højlund
6. Development of Dalot
7. Development of McTominay into “clutch” player
8. Dealing with Sancho
9. Dealing with Ronaldo
10. Dealing with Rashford
11. Handling of meritocracy scenarios
12. Signing Martinez
13. Signing Højlund
14. Use of “clutch” players McTominay (most points won from goals - 13)
15. Keeping us within touching distance of CL despite unprecedented injuries and Evans being our main CB with Amrabat as a LB at times.
16. Our build up play when everyone is fit
17. Our high pressing and turnovers are the best in the league
18. Our third man runs (especially underlapping from RB and overlapping LB)
19. A win % better than any manager in United’s history despite having half a season without any LB, his best CBs, his only DM, his wingers and strikers on an off too.

There is more but you won’t listen even if I post it and I disagree with large parts of what you’ve said. Name me the 10+ players he’s supposedly signed for example because that one is hilarious!

With regards to what you think you’re seeing on the pitch I suggest you look into tactics a bit more.

I feel sorry for you.

Again I think you’re so far from having a contextual understanding of the league that I can’t be bothered spending any more time today.

Tag me tomorrow and I’ll have the energy to go again.

Look at how many players have been and gone under Guardiola in his time at City and look at the pace at which they are swapped out. It all takes time and structure above the manager too.

You have too much time on your hands. Do you support the club or the manager? Get some perspective. Things are a bit better, some encouraging sings. Lots of problems. Managing a club like United is tough, that goes without saying.

Some of your list is simply lies. There was a list shown on Sunday in the Arsenal games for top six teams for high

I love this post; I think ETH is doing a good job as well, certainly more good than bad!

Its honestly pathetic that fans get so obsessed with a manager. Lets see stuff happen on the pitch and then get excited. One minutes its not ETH's fault we signed Antony for £80m and the fact that he's crap, now he's great for signing Martinez and Hojlund. It can't be celebrate the successes and ignore the failures. Similarly, Mainoo has been in the youth system since age 9, and the first team squad full time since this summer. ETH was keen to sell McT this summer (and would have signed Amrabat permanently if we had), he's horribly overplayed mcT in midfield and now realises he's at best an impact sub. The list is basically the in tray for a MUFC manager. Get over it.

 

[RedStarUnited]

This will blow your mind but there are actually people out there who thought the score and the performance were decent. I'm one of them.

Consider my mind blown!

I am tired of a season full of teams playing us off the park home and away. Before anyone can say 'yeah but the injuries' in most games if you were to do a combined eleven between us and the opposition, I would take more of our players. We have better individuals than most of the league, it's our coaching that's holding us back.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

This is pathetic. How is criticism of Ole 'way over the top'. We played some exciting games but also were very one dimensional and soon got found out. Both Ole and ETH spent a lot of money on players, we consistenly had the highest wage bill, yet we never looked like genuinely challenging for the title. Also too often the football was just poor

You have too much time on your hands. Do you support the club or the manager? Get some perspective. Things are a bit better, some encouraging sings. Lots of problems. Managing a club like United is tough, that goes without saying.

Some of your list is simply lies. There was a list shown on Sunday in the Arsenal games for top six teams for high

Its honestly pathetic that fans get so obsessed with a manager. Lets see stuff happen on the pitch and then get excited. One minutes its not ETH's fault we signed Antony for £80m and the fact that he's crap, now he's great for signing Martinez and Hojlund. It can't be celebrate the successes and ignore the failures. Similarly, Mainoo has been in the youth system since age 9, and the first team squad full time since this summer. ETH was keen to sell McT this summer (and would have signed Amrabat permanently if we had), he's horribly overplayed mcT in midfield and now realises he's at best an impact sub. The list is basically the in tray for a MUFC manager. Get over it.

I find the bolded bit ironic because this is literally what you and some of the ETH out brigade are doing, you are obsessed with him being sacked.

You are obsessed with the managerial position so much you dont actually understand why some people are not calling for his head. Then you make up a narrative that it has to be that anybody who isnt screaming for his head is some sort of ETH fan who doesnt see what you see.

Thats the lie, not the points that Benito made that you couldnt be arsed responding to , probably because you cant.