Yeah I agree. Although I do half wonder if the club releases stuff like this at times to set a narrative before they make a move ie sack a manager. Probably not in this case though.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yeah I agree. Although I do half wonder if the club releases stuff like this at times to set a narrative before they make a move ie sack a manager. Probably not in this case though.
He is not a good manager, at least not good enough for the level we require. He will be sacked.
The real question is: Is it better for the team to sack him now, or wait till May?
The real question is: Is it better for the team to sack him now, or wait till May?
I can't even find this athletic article.
Tactically hung out to dry. Wages doesn't matter when they're on the pitch and I've seen no evidence they're not trying to do as he's asking. At least I guess they are as performances are the same every week, win or lose, and he keeps picking them.
I can't agree any these players doing this before though. Under Ole we were in agreement on who the culprits were and they've all gone. Ten Hag has a strong spine of players that are his and I find it hard to believe they're trying to oust him. And if it was only a small few then I think it would be obvious to those within the club that are with these guys daily.
LVG? It's not even the same team, mate.
I didn't look but the story popped up in another article on my phone, quoting the athletic. I looked on twitter/X to see if anybody else was talking about it and that tweet came up straight away, so presumed it was coming from somewhere.
Did we?
We lost to Burnley at Carrington yesterday (Wednesday) for the 2nd time this season, Burnley are 19th in the league yet beat us 3-0 last time and apparently thrashed us this time.
Did we?
Lingard, Henderson, Pogba etc.
Go back to last summer and nobody was talking about how we need to still shift players that were undermining the manager. It's just another excuse. We should have been at least as good or better than last season after spending another quarter of a billion pounds on players, and yet we're even worse. So what's changed? Why would the players suddenly down tools after finishing third and seeing the club invest to try and win things? Because they have to work harder? Harder than what, last season? Come on...
Sounds like Ten Hag doubling down on trying to improve the players because they aren’t proficient yet at the drills?
They can’t play out the back through a press, you really believe making the drills more fun will improve their performance of these standard skills they haven’t mastered yet?
If we don’t play this pressing/transition style it is back to long ball tactics gents.
They can’t play out the back through a press, you really believe making the drills more fun will improve their performance of these standard skills they haven’t mastered yet?
If we don’t play this pressing/transition style it is back to long ball tactics gents.
I'm pretty sure that there is another way to play between long ball and whatever the feck Ten Hag is trying to do.
I'm also sure that Ten Hag isn't capable to install it.
Yes, but we were missing the second best goalkeeper in the league.
I think it was said that they get bored because he just goes over very simple stuff over and over.
Is funny though because not long ago there was a story saying he's not been able to do tactical work for a year due to injuries etc. This was used as an excuse for why we've not really looked like we've any sort of plan on the pitch. But if he has actually been doing hours of tactical work....yikes.
Sorry, who decided they were the wrong attitude ones, and who decided it was just them? Did you just watch a Mark Goldbridge video and took it as bible or something?
Also saying they're always hung out to dry on tactics is a bit of a lazy way of interpreting the season. I'm not saying Ten Hag hasn't been naieve, in fact there's at least a half dozen games where he has. But there are also a lot of games we tactically set out the right way, and we lost a lot of points.
I’ve read the article and it’s just a summary of all the articles the Athletic already wrote on Ten Hag, nothing new to be honest, just some click bait stuff because they’ve run out of articles on Ratcliffe and Berrada.
The article only says he does a lot of video and tactical analysis with the team, and sometimes players doze off or get bored, and that if they don’t fully grasp the concepts he’s trying to convey then they can have a mare on the field.
They also quote Dusan Tadic saying that when you win, suddenly everyone sees value in these sessions.
They also talk about his english and that sometimes things may be lost in translation
It was pretty much a universal opinion amongst United fans that they were the issue and were the ones leaking stuff also. Possibly others too, but I don't ever remember anybody mentioning any of the current players as the ones that were an issue. I'll stand corrected if you can name players that people have said has a bad attitude and are an issue, which have been here since Ole etc? The only one I'd personally say (and I've been in the minority on this for a long time until recently) is Rashford, but he gets picked every week and seems untouchable for ETH. Surely he isn't that bad a judge in character? Although I suppose he did try to sign Arnautovic, tried to bring Greenwood back and signed Antony...
My point exactly. The reality is, this is the elite level in terms of expectation. The vast majority who get to that level fail - it's the same in business and in other sports.
The best managers across various disciplines know how to unlock potential, build rapport and bring people together to get the best out of them. That's a massive part of the job - the best coaches generate a "us v them" culture in a squad.
There's no evidence of any of it and a distinct lack of performance on other metrics as well.
Apparently not the manager's job to inspire players, as we've been told by ETH fans.
Think we should keep him for as long as possible, we probably deserve each other, it’s not like we are likely to get someone better anyway.
According to his cult, a manager’s job is just to rake in the plaudits for winning games.
Everything else is not his responsibility, it’s the owners fault, it’s the players fault, it’s the pitch guys fault, it’s Fred the Red’s fault, it’s the tea lady’s fault.
The manager is the next best thing since sliced bread who can’t do no wrong. He choice of players are perfect. His tactics are perfect.
In fact it’s other managers fault as they don’t allowed him to win.
Howe didn't. He inherited a squad and he wasn't even anywhere near their first choice appointment. He's had Dan Burn at left back and other average PL players all over the pitch.
And Ten Hag has been able to spend £400 million on players - it's as much his squad as anyone's.
Couldn't agree less on the bolded point. Culture comes from the top and they get players to buy in and work hard. That's a talent and not just in managing football players.
Agree with you, the weird manipulations people make to excuse ETH. Managing United is always very tough, the inept owners and management make it harder. But its not impossible. The bare minimum is some good football, regardless of results. Howe has done a pretty good job given the challenges there.
Quite frankly I can't see how anyone can not see the pattern here.
a-A new manager comes in
b- he doesn't trust the DOF so he brings his own players in
c- the team does well during the 1st-2nd season
d- during the 2nd-3rd season he demands some players to go out as they don't fit his game
e-Most of those players remain at the club and the manager gets the 2nd-3rd choice players that he asked
f- that season proves to be unwatchable. Every player seem to lose his touch, leaks are everywhere, injuries ravage the club and we end up playing tumescent football with a Fellaini/McT upfront
If you go through that list one should ask
a- why every manager we get asks for a revolution? Why bring managers whose style is completely different to the guy preceding him?
b- why no manager trust the DOF?
c- why all our player seem to lose fitness and form 1-2 years after joining us?
d- Why can't we sell players?
e- Why cant we sort one feckin problem at this club?
Im neither ETH in or out. There are valid arguments for both sides of the barricade. All I am saying is that before we take that decision let us hire competent people first. Let's not allow Murtough to choose our next manager!
a-A new manager comes in
b- he doesn't trust the DOF so he brings his own players in
c- the team does well during the 1st-2nd season
d- during the 2nd-3rd season he demands some players to go out as they don't fit his game
e-Most of those players remain at the club and the manager gets the 2nd-3rd choice players that he asked
f- that season proves to be unwatchable. Every player seem to lose his touch, leaks are everywhere, injuries ravage the club and we end up playing tumescent football with a Fellaini/McT upfront
If you go through that list one should ask
a- why every manager we get asks for a revolution? Why bring managers whose style is completely different to the guy preceding him?
b- why no manager trust the DOF?
c- why all our player seem to lose fitness and form 1-2 years after joining us?
d- Why can't we sell players?
e- Why cant we sort one feckin problem at this club?
Im neither ETH in or out. There are valid arguments for both sides of the barricade. All I am saying is that before we take that decision let us hire competent people first. Let's not allow Murtough to choose our next manager!
Being runner up in the league used to mean we had a bad season, but now that we're 8th with -5 GD it's apparently the best we could hope for.
Crazy how far the standards have dropped.
Some fair points. But what mystifies me is what exactly people think ETH has done to deserve longer. His signings are so bad its almost incomprehensible, Antony being the shining example. The football is awful, and was for much of the second half of last season. We are in process of hiring competent people, but that doesn't mean we cant change the manager.
ETH signings are not bad.
Martinez is great, Hojlund is great, Casemiro was player of the season, Eriksen is on a free and brings experience that young players can learn from.
Malacia is decent backup and could develop into starter.
Antony has been bad.
Onana is shaky, but nobody saw that coming, did we?
Mount has been injured and we're yet to see what he can offer.
Very far from "so bad it's incomprehensible".
Martinez is great, Hojlund is great, Casemiro was player of the season, Eriksen is on a free and brings experience that young players can learn from.
Malacia is decent backup and could develop into starter.
Antony has been bad.
Onana is shaky, but nobody saw that coming, did we?
Mount has been injured and we're yet to see what he can offer.
Very far from "so bad it's incomprehensible".
You must be a member of the ETH cult they invented.
Players earn right to moan if they are winning trophies and feel like the manager is messing up a winning formula.
Yeah OK, £450m well spent
Overuse of the words 'cult' and 'fanboys' on here is so cringe when attributed to fans who are alittle more lenient towards ETH currently.
Personally I think he'll be moved on in the summer . Post the Gala away result I've been extremely underwhelmed by his set ups/ tactics and the lack of direction and intensity in our game.
Personally I think he'll be moved on in the summer . Post the Gala away result I've been extremely underwhelmed by his set ups/ tactics and the lack of direction and intensity in our game.
Antony is a mess that should have never been made. First of all the modern manager is poorly equipped to identify the players that he need. There are sporting directors and head of recruitment for that. The Antony deal is a shining example of that. In typical post SAF managers' fashion we went for a player the manager knew about with no care in the world whether it made financial sense, if there were better available alternatives or if he was in the mental condition to succeed at the club. Regarding football, well, that's indeed damning. However its the same style of football the likes of Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and now ETH has been reduced to playing. So I believe that the issue here is far bigger than that of the manager which include
a- poor fitness levels (ie fitness team)
b- squad that is not built for the modern game style (DOF, Scouts and head of recruitment fault)
c- poor motivation (manager is partly at fault, there again all manager's post Fergie failed in that too)
There are areas that are directly related to ETH of course. For example his obsession in playing 2 no 10s in CM (Eriksen/Mount with Fernandes). That's a tactical flaw and tactics are solely the manager's domain. His inability to switch to a plan B or change his style to better suit the game. This is not the treble side. Therefore we simply can't go to places like Emptyhad and play a high press else we'll be skinned alive. That suggest a one dimensional manager. His stubbornness in treating the likes of Onana/Antony with kid gloves. Sure they are his players and that's a problem but managers should put the club ahead of the manager's political power. Then there's of course the biggest no no of all ie his insistence in retaining the veto on transfers. If that's true then he should be shown the door.
Ultimately I won't lose any sleep irrespective on whether ETH stays or goes. All I ask is that competent people decide his fate and the next manager
I think the football is far worse than we saw under Ole, Mou was just dull and not sure Rangnick really counts. Also, why are Ole and a toxic, found out Mourinho the bar for performance? Ole was never qualified for the job, and Mourinho should never have been let near the club. Just because Woodward made a series of terrible appointments doesnt mean we cant do far better.
Rashford gets picked every week? Not sure if you've watched us much this season. He had a spell out and dropped.
Anway, there are still a few players floating around be it Lindelof, Wan Bissaka, Shaw, Sancho, Martial, Rashford.
Fans don't get to decide who the leaks are. The only obvious one was Lingard.
I agree. I'm visiting this place and keeping up out of habit, but I'm not looking forward to any of our games anymore. With no business whatsoever during this window, it's clear this is yet another written off season. We seem to have had more of those in the past decade than not. Worse, it seems to be the logical choice right now. I'm sure we will grind out some wins, but the football just doesn't warrant watching any of it. It's bleak place to be. I hope he is gone in the summer and a New Era™ to actually begin.
He has been dropped for a handful of games, but used as a sub still frequently, and has played practically every game otherwise (starting the last 4) - does this strike you as a player that the manager thinks is an issue outside of what he's doing on the pitch? He got dropped for form recently, and missed one game for turning up late earlier in the season.
You've just named all the players still here since Ole - do you think by some coincidence they're all the issue? The article said that the players moaning about ETH and his tactics sessions couldn't speak good English, so it is probably none of those players that this info came from - pointing to it probably being an ETH signing.
Anyone who uses these kind of words is clearly dim as feck.
I really don't get this line of thinking. If the players see that they will get nowhere close to a winning formula they also have the right to complain. Players like fans want to see progress, and it increasingly feels that EtH is stuck in a loop of trying to get things to work that both fans and players (at least a sizeable amount of them) don't believe will ever work.
I don't really care about how we're playing at the moment. This squad is a hot potch of different styles, its ravaged with injuries, its evident that the manager had lost part of the dressing room and there's a takeover going on which will lead to a mountain of changes including many players leaving. If I am Sir Brailsford what I would care about is the details. For example
a-how the manager act with his favorites vs the rest?
b- can he switch to a plan B?
c- is he assertive in terms of asking help in areas were he struggles with? (ex transfers)
d- is he a team player?
All of those things will be key for next season. The last thing INEOS would want is for the club to bring let's say 4 good players only for ETH to stick them to the bench because they might make Antony or Onana look bad.
For the record I think ETH will be fired in summer. The fact that he's not being backed in January kind of enforces that
Couple things - Rashford being dropped for a while shows he's not starting every game. He's actually come back and scored a couple and assisted one so it's not like he's terrible since returning anyway.
Moreover my point on leaks and bad eggs is that no one actually knows. You said we all agreed on who they were and it made me chuckle because no one had any clue on that.
Do you have the direct athletic link that says this by the way? I still can't find it.
That's true although these players were literally in 2 finals last year, winning 1 of them, so they'd be thick as pig shit to have forgotten that trophies are actually achievable with this manager. He needs to figure out why it was working last year and why it isn't this year and quickly.
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