Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[The Bloody-Nine]

But why are you considering selling? Why would we sell Martinez? Why would we sell Hojlund?

For what it's worth, if Hojlund keeps developing well he'll be worth 100m +.


Let's ignore his 5 goals in CL, because it suits our agenda! Beautiful.

Seven goals at the end of January. Great.

 

[Toshey]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

 

[mu4c_20le]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

Considering he played mostly on the right wing, they are fairly decent yeah

 

[erikcred]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

Neither is a generational talent. That's Bellingham territory.

Hojlund is a disaster signing not a bad player. He needs time to develop and the manager is probably going to be sacked soon.

 

[DJ_21]

Seven goals at the end of January. Great.

In a team that doesn’t play as a unit and you have to feed of scraps because your playing with greedy wingers.

 

[DJ Jeff]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

And what did Greenwood score from the wing as a teenager in his first season?

 

[el3mel]

But why are you considering selling? Why would we sell Martinez? Why would we sell Hojlund?

For what it's worth, if Hojlund keeps developing well he'll be worth 100m +.


Let's ignore his 5 goals in CL, because it suits our agenda! Beautiful.

He's not great even with these goals. You're overrating him just how you're overrating Martinez by the way.

 

[el3mel]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

Greenwood played most of his time here on the wing while Cavani and Martial were occupying the central areas, not as a lone striker like Hojlund.

 

[RedC]

Neither is a generational talent. That's Bellingham territory.

Hojlund is a disaster signing not a bad player. He needs time to develop and the manager is probably going to be sacked soon.

Keep up with the shite posts and you might never be promoted!

 

[The Mitcher]

Players earn right to moan if they are winning trophies and feel like the manager is messing up a winning formula.

They also are justified if the manager purposefully sets them up to lose every game.

 

[The Mitcher]

That's true although these players were literally in 2 finals last year, winning 1 of them, so they'd be thick as pig shit to have forgotten that trophies are actually achievable with this manager. He needs to figure out why it was working last year and why it isn't this year and quickly.

It's the opposite. Trophies are achievable with (most) of these players, not the manager.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

In a team that doesn’t play as a unit and you have to feed of scraps because your playing with greedy wingers.

Excuses. He's missed plenty. Over 60 million.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

How much did Greenwood cost again? What position was he playing?

Almost like this is a stupid comparison.

 

[DJ_21]

Excuses. He's missed plenty. Over 60 million.

As does every single ST in the world.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

As does every single ST in the world.

Not every single striker in the world cost over 60 million and was just described as a "great signing".

 

[DJ_21]

Not every single striker in the world cost over 60 million and was just described as a "great signing".

No some cost a lot more. I’ve seen players like Osimhen miss easy chances. He’s a ‘Great signing for the future’

 

[USREDEVIL]

In a team that doesn’t play as a unit and you have to feed of scraps because your playing with greedy wingers.

And their crossing ability is, shall we say,...shit.

 

[frostbite]

No some cost a lot more. I’ve seen players like Osimhen miss easy chances. He’s a ‘Great signing for the future’

You mean he is a bad signing now, but he may prove to be a great signing in the future. Maybe. Or maybe not.

 

[Amity Survivor]

Unless he pulls off a miracle and we win a cup and get top 4 he will be gone by the summer, Ineos aren’t messing around by the looks of things, I’m genuinely excited for the future for the first time since the great man retired, it’s time

 

[sunama]

Instant gratification? 10 years and billions of pounds spent...there's nothing instant about this. Even Ten Hag will have had 2 years and backing at the level most managers could only dream of.

So true.
If you interview any manager and tell him that we will give you £400M to spend for 2 seasons.
Can you win us trophies?

It would be a brave manager to say, "No, I need more money!"

In fairness, ETH did win a trophy and last season was pretty good. So that bought him a lot of goodwill.
But how his team has regressed by so much is beyond me.

 

[wolvored]

So true.
If you interview any manager and tell him that we will give you £400M to spend for 2 seasons.
Can you win us trophies?

It would be a brave manager to say, "No, I need more money!"

In fairness, ETH did win a trophy and last season was pretty good. So that bought him a lot of goodwill.
But how his team has regressed by so much is beyond me.

This. Its unbelievable after the outlay on players last summer as well and they were all picked by TH. If he is kept on beyond the summer, he shouldnt be allowed to pick the players at the scouting stage and only have a say on the final pick. i.e. Do you want player A or B? After both have been selected by Ratcliffes CEO/DOF etc, above him.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

No some cost a lot more. I’ve seen players like Osimhen miss easy chances. He’s a ‘Great signing for the future’

Except that, unless you can predict the future, there's no guarantee of anything. He might be. Equally, he might not be.

And he was described as a great signing, not a great signing for the future. He has absolutely not been a great signing so far.

 

[sunama]

So 20years old Greenwood with 7 goals in 31 was generational talent, 20years old Hojlund with 7 in 24 is a disaster signing.
Okay then.

You need to remember that Greenwood improved the following season.
Let's also not forget that Greenwood scored 7 league goals in his first season.
Hojlund has scored 2 goals thus far.

I'm not saying Hojlund can't improve, in fact he certainly will, but he is not ready to play as the main striker for any big club, more importantly, we massively overpaid for him.

It is astonishing how we consistently overpay on transfer fees and wages. The people who negotiate these deals must be drunk or drugged up during these negotiations. I can't think of any other explanation.
Even a 15 yr old kid would understand that we need to pay a low transfer fee and a low wage - that's the aim of the negotiation.

 

[Toshey]

We are overpaying for players since 2014, why is this being used as a stick to beat ETH with?
I fully expect ETH to be blamed for the broken seats at Old Trafford next.

No matter how much you hate the guy, it's just silly to paint him as the villain who ruins everything for this ofherwise stable and incredibly run club.
For 10 years every manager who came here declined, every player who came here declined.
Surely you see the pattern?

Maybe ETH is not good enough, but clearly there are severe overreactions here.
It seems like our rebuild has started. ETH knows that he needs to deliver something positive for the next months if he wants to be given another summer and 3rd season.
Now we have a mostly fit squad.
Let's see what happens.

It's annoying that if we get on a winning streak, some posters will disappear from the thread and the moment we lose, they'll be back with the "fraud" posts in full power.

ETH has done major feck ups this season, and if this bad run continues he'll be gone certainly. Justified criticism is fine.
But there are so many purely hateful, overreactive, unfair comments that these people make me want to defend him.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Excuses. He's missed plenty. Over 60 million.

I mean it's not really excuses, he's received the fewest amount of passes as any striker in the fecking league. It's a fair argument even if you don't agree with it.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Because funnily enough, he has been the most injured CB since he joined us. His performances also fell off a cliff compared to his first 6 months. Now I wouldn't sell him but there is a case to move from that kind of player quickly when they still have a high reputation.

* He has missed 34 games in less than two seasons.

Yeah I'm praying he's back to normal after this second layoff. Although it infuriates me that he was having issues with his foot even in the summer post surgery and apparently was still cleared to start for us. Incompetent fecking medical staff.

 

[OsloRed]

Yeah I'm praying he's back to normal after this second layoff. Although it infuriates me that he was having issues with his foot even in the summer post surgery and apparently was still cleared to start for us. Incompetent fecking medical staff.

I heard that the metal plate that was set in his foot made it basically impossible to see that the injury had reappeared. They apparently had three different doctors look at it and not finding anything.

 

[r0663664]

You need to remember that Greenwood improved the following season.
Let's also not forget that Greenwood scored 7 league goals in his first season.
Hojlund has scored 2 goals thus far.

I'm not saying Hojlund can't improve, in fact he certainly will, but he is not ready to play as the main striker for any big club, more importantly, we massively overpaid for him.

It is astonishing how we consistently overpay on transfer fees and wages. The people who negotiate these deals must be drunk or drugged up during these negotiations. I can't think of any other explanation.
Even a 15 yr old kid would understand that we need to pay a low transfer fee and a low wage - that's the aim of the negotiation.

We overpay because everyone knows we are desperate. All clubs treat United as idiot when it comes to transfer. PSG has made 50 million for Hoijund, some idiots in United will say no we must pay 72 million. I am not sure if we know how to negotiate any deal. Just like ETH, I want to be in control in transfer signing. Some idiots will say, yes.. yes please sign for us. I want Antony.. sure, we will sign him at all cost. Whole organisation are make up of clowns who wants results asap there we sign wrong players and managers. If you have 200 million, you don’t blow your budget on 3 players. You will sign at least 5-6 with a couple established veterans and a few potential youngsters and you walk away if the deal is above your valuation. I don’t think it is even difficult.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Unless he pulls off a miracle and we win a cup and get top 4 he will be gone by the summer, Ineos aren’t messing around by the looks of things, I’m genuinely excited for the future for the first time since the great man retired, it’s time

Don't see that. They seem intelligent and will look at the entire picture. Injuries, players not being good enough, some bad signings (yes lots due to ETH - but i think they will put someone in place to take that part). Unless we continue to shit the bed even after some of the players come back, i expect them to give him one year after hopefully a couple good signings over the summer. But that's probably the end of his leash.

 

[RVN1991]

Don't see that. They seem intelligent and will look at the entire picture. Injuries, players not being good enough, some bad signings (yes lots due to ETH - but i think they will put someone in place to take that part). Unless we continue to shit the bed even after some of the players come back, i expect them to give him one year after hopefully a couple good signings over the summer. But that's probably the end of his leash.

From the outside it looks like the players aren't particularly fond of him and his signings have mostly been disasters so hopefully we can save everyone valuable time and he's let go at the end of the season.

 

[NicolaSacco]

We overpay because everyone knows we are desperate. All clubs treat United as idiot when it comes to transfer. PSG has made 50 million for Hoijund, some idiots in United will say no we must pay 72 million. I am not sure if we know how to negotiate any deal. Just like ETH, I want to be in control in transfer signing. Some idiots will say, yes.. yes please sign for us. I want Antony.. sure, we will sign him at all cost. Whole organisation are make up of clowns who wants results asap there we sign wrong players and managers. If you have 200 million, you don’t blow your budget on 3 players. You will sign at least 5-6 with a couple established veterans and a few potential youngsters and you walk away if the deal is above your valuation. I don’t think it is even difficult.

What you are saying is logical (and indeed not difficult), but ONLY in the abstract, ie when you don’t have a specific player in mind that the manager, owners and fans think will move the team on to the next level.

Imagine a scenario where you’ve not bought any players in much needed positions in June or July (due to the selling club expecting you to pay through the nose), and then August comes round, you’ve not strengthened, but other teams have. And the latest potential selling club says they won’t accept less than £100m for this supposed amazing talent. You don’t know at this point whether they are the next Cristiano Ronaldo or not. The pressure is then on from all sides. The thing with walking away from a deal is that you have to be prepared to do that 5 or 6 times in order to genuinely change your reputation for overspending in the eyes of others. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but how many transfer windows would you accept missing out on targets before you just stumped up the money? It’s easy to say in principle what you’d do, but I think it’s much harder in practice.

 

[USREDEVIL]

From the outside it looks like the players aren't particularly fond of him and his signings have mostly been disasters so hopefully we can save everyone valuable time and he's let go at the end of the season.

Not sure about that. Even so, they've been doing that since Moyesy. Main issue is the quality of the squad at the moment.

 

[RVN1991]

Not sure about that. Even so, they've been doing that since Moyesy. Main issue is the quality of the squad at the moment.

I agree. It doesn't matter who you bring in as manager the squad is crap and ETH has dropped the overall quality even more with his signings.

I was a fan of his and was really excited after last season but his summer signings and just the overall lack of cohesion this season has been a huge disappointment.

 

[r0663664]

What you are saying is logical (and indeed not difficult), but ONLY in the abstract, ie when you don’t have a specific player in mind that the manager, owners and fans think will move the team on to the next level.

Imagine a scenario where you’ve not bought any players in much needed positions in June or July (due to the selling club expecting you to pay through the nose), and then August comes round, you’ve not strengthened, but other teams have. And the latest potential selling club says they won’t accept less than £100m for this supposed amazing talent. You don’t know at this point whether they are the next Cristiano Ronaldo or not. The pressure is then on from all sides. The thing with walking away from a deal is that you have to be prepared to do that 5 or 6 times in order to genuinely change your reputation for overspending in the eyes of others. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but how many transfer windows would you accept missing out on targets before you just stumped up the money? It’s easy to say in principle what you’d do, but I think it’s much harder in practice.

The way you put it is so difficult. This is a football club that generates then 600+ million revenue. Those players who sign for Fulham, West Ham, Brighton, or Aston Villa are currently playing better than our signings. I would think we would have 4-5 potential signings for each position. As long as we are negotiating with other clubs' players, the selling club would not be asking for the sky. Today, we are negotiating 1 deal at 1 time, so clubs drag their feet, and when the window is closing, they know they can get the price they want. United just has stupid management. Having Omar, hopefully everything will change. From shortlisting, valuation, negotiation and others.

 

[Rista]

Don't see that. They seem intelligent and will look at the entire picture. Injuries, players not being good enough, some bad signings (yes lots due to ETH - but i think they will put someone in place to take that part). Unless we continue to shit the bed even after some of the players come back, i expect them to give him one year after hopefully a couple good signings over the summer. But that's probably the end of his leash.

And if they do exactly that he's gone by the end of the season. I mean, why are we pretending like the influence of a manager is so low that it's impossible to tell how good of a job he's doing? Why do we want to sack everyone, bring in new people and start fresh but keep the manager and give him another year? I just don't understand this fascination with managers. Surely just because manager's influence in transfers will hopefully be much lower under new structure it doesn't mean anything changes regarding man management, tactics, in game management skill requirements, all which he seems to be failing at. If it was any other position at the club nobody would be asking for second chances after this disastrous season.

 

[led_scholes]

I think he will be lucky and get another season. We just started setting up a new structure which probably needs a whole year from now to actually have a clear picture.

Or he will resing when they tell him that he will have no control of the transfers.

 

[Paul778]

I was a fan of his and was really excited after last season but his summer signings and just the overall lack of cohesion this season has been a huge disappointment

His stubbornness to insist on staying with effectively a one man midfield is the hill he will die on.

 

[pcaming]

I think he will be lucky and get another season. We just started setting up a new structure which probably needs a whole year from now to actually have a clear picture.

Or he will resing when they tell him that he will have no control of the transfers.

Can’t see it myself. Ten Hag would need a major breakthrough between now and the end of the season.

You can say the setup is atrocious, but he has genuinely been awful independent of that. We are in a worse position than when he signed and he has played a major hand in that accomplishment.

He only stays if we cannot get a suitable new manager. Which admittedly there are few.

 

[r0663664]

We had very little football in the last 2-3 weeks and with many players back except Martial. I assume he manage to get done trainings with players are well rested for the FA Cup game. Let's see what shit do we serve up in the next 48hrs.

 

[wolvored]

Transfers aside, his 'tactics' or lack of them, plus his non improvement of players in his second season, is justification for Ineos to sweep the whole setup clean. A new manager is a must in the summer, imo.