Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I can agree with you without absolving ETH of his mistakes. I even argued elsewhere, before INEOS got involved, that there are two paths we can follow. Either appoint a manager who values purposeful possession of the ball and positional play as a means to win football matches, or fully embrace the fact that we're nothing more than a counter-attacking side and act accordingly. In the first case, the managerial appointment should be the direct consequence of a conscious decision to pick up the scissors and the scalpels and, within a certain timeframe, have a squad that will look almost unrecognizable. Otherwise, you take your pick of the currently available top-in-their-class counter-attacking managers (Conte, for example, can come to OT right now) with the hope that they will be able to succeed where both Mourinho and Solskjaer failed. And that is to add a bit of nuance to the one and only trick we have up our sleeves. Sit back, stay compact, put two defensive midfielders behind Bruno and hope for the best.

People can say that there's not only one way to win titles. I'd argue that it's impossible to win any major honours, if you have only one way to play well. Because we are not even a good transition side, and we have never been one in the last decade. Liverpool are a good transition team. City are, too, when the situation demands it. We are, as described by Pep since he joined City, purely a counter-attacking side. The difference is that Mourinho did it by choice. Both Solskjaer and ETH (and RR for the short while he was here) wanted to implement a high intensity game, but eventually bowed down to the wants and the needs of the squad they inherited. Solskajer completely toed the line after the nightmarish end to his initial six months at the club, and managed to keep this train going until he ran out of short-term solutions. ETH's first season was similar. Scared to death after the opening fixtures, then went back to what his most productive players are familiar with. Just like Solskjaer and Mourinho, the results were OK at first, but there was little nuance to the way we play. Therefore, what we thought was a promising start, was a ceiling. Is it a manager thing? Is it the main players? It's a bit of both. Personally, i would describe us (since the Mourinho appointment) as a glorified WHU. All the money, all the glamour and posturing to cover this simple truth with a bit of stardust.

So, if we think that someone like Conte or Simeone would beat Klopp and Pep in a 90+ race with a few tweaks, bring them in. Otherwise, the road is long and filled with obstacles.
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Rubbish, I dont want Simeone anywhere near this club. We are Manchester United and if the United way means anything it means playing exciting football. If we lose that then we are really nowhere. There is no way this squad wins anything with a 'few tweaks', not least after ETH's terrible signings.
 
Gordon Godot said:
Rubbish, I dont want Simeone anywhere near this club. We are Manchester United and if the United way means anything it means playing exciting football. If we lose that then we are really nowhere. There is no way this squad wins anything with a 'few tweaks', not least after ETH's terrible signings.
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I don't want him, either. But the style of football that has got the best results out of United in recent times is this style of football. Far more comfortable without the ball, when the lines are deep and compact and the spaces to attack in-behind are "offered" by the opposition and not "created" through teamwork and good possession. This is not an opinion, it's a fact. If you can find a manager in 2024 who can play exciting football and win games with this as his go-to plan, you can add him to the list.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I can agree with you without absolving ETH of his mistakes. I even argued elsewhere, before INEOS got involved, that there are two paths we can follow. Either appoint a manager who values purposeful possession of the ball and positional play as a means to win football matches, or fully embrace the fact that we're nothing more than a counter-attacking side and act accordingly. In the first case, the managerial appointment should be the direct consequence of a conscious decision to pick up the scissors and the scalpels and, within a certain timeframe, have a squad that will look almost unrecognizable. Otherwise, you take your pick of the currently available top-in-their-class counter-attacking managers (Conte, for example, can come to OT right now) with the hope that they will be able to succeed where both Mourinho and Solskjaer failed. And that is to add a bit of nuance to the one and only trick we have up our sleeves. Sit back, stay compact, put two defensive midfielders behind the sole creator and hope for the best.

People can say that there's not only one way to win titles. I'd argue that it's impossible to win any major honours, if you have only one way to play well. Because we are not even a good transition side, and we have never been one in the last decade. Liverpool are a good transition team. City are, too, when the situation demands it. We are, as described by Pep since he joined City, purely a counter-attacking side. The difference is that Mourinho did it by choice. Both Solskjaer and ETH (and RR for the short while he was here) wanted to implement a high intensity game, but eventually bowed down to the wants and the needs of the squad they inherited. Solskajer completely toed the line after the nightmarish end to his initial six months at the club, and managed to keep this train going until he ran out of short-term solutions. ETH's first season was similar. Scared to death after the opening fixtures, then went back to what his most productive players are familiar with. Just like Solskjaer and Mourinho, the results were OK at first, but there was little nuance to the way we play. Therefore, what we thought was a promising start, was a ceiling. Is it a manager thing? Is it the main players? It's a bit of both. Personally, i would describe us (since the Mourinho appointment) as a glorified WHU. All the money, all the glamour and posturing to cover this simple truth with a bit of stardust.

So, if we think that someone like Conte or Simeone would beat Klopp and Pep in a 90+ race with a few tweaks, bring them in. Otherwise, the road is long and filled with obstacles.
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I agree with a lot of this. On your point about us being a counter attacking team, that is what I see when I look at us this season. A team that's stuck between wanting to be more progressive in its play i.e. playing out from the back, high press etc and a team whose best players really are most comfortable in a 4 2 3 1, sitting a bit deeper and counter attacking into the space. Pretty much all the big players pre EtH fit that mould whether Bruno, Rashford, Mct, Maguire, AWB, and the result is this mish mash. However, as you said and I agree that the club has to choose which path it wants to go. If that path is EtH's path which is playing out from the back, having midfielders who can take the ball alone in the midfield, a high press etc then there is a big question regarding those players I mentioned. This is why I use De Zerbi as an example as I don't see all those players being able to pull off what De Zerbi would want.

On your last point, I'd hate for us to go the conte route. I'm happy to see if we can get EtH's "philosophy" implemented with the right structure around him, which for me would be (barring anything super.crazy happening) giving him next season but with transfers etc taken away from him.
 
flameinthesun said:
I agree with a lot of this. On your point about us being a counter attacking team, that is what I see when I look at us this season. A team that's stuck between wanting to be more progressive in its play i.e. playing out from the back, high press etc and a team whose best players really are most comfortable in a 4 2 3 1, sitting a bit deeper and counter attacking into the space. Pretty much all the big players pre EtH fit that mould whether Bruno, Rashford, Mct, Maguire, AWB, and the result is this mish mash. However, as you said and I agree that the club has to choose which path it wants to go. If that path is EtH's path which is playing out from the back, having midfielders who can take the ball alone in the midfield, a high press etc then there is a big question regarding those players I mentioned. This is why I use De Zerbi as an example as I don't see all those players being able to pull off what De Zerbi would want.

On your last point, I'd hate for us to go the conte route. I'm happy to see if we can get EtH's "philosophy" implemented with the right structure around him, which for me would be (barring anything super.crazy happening) giving him next season but with transfers etc taken away from him.
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The same stuff. What 'philosophy'. People talk likes he's mystic Meg or the next Pep. He inherited as style at Ajax and played too it. They were never that great when I saw them and had one stand out season in Europe. The eulogizing of this guy is getting embarrassing.

Also in terms of path, its 100% clear the only route to success in modern football is being able to control games and the ball. A predominantly counter attacking team is not winning the Premier league
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I don't want him, either. But the style of football that has got the best results out of United in recent times is this style of football. Far more comfortable without the ball, when the lines are deep and compact and the spaces to attack in-behind are "offered" by the opposition and not "created" through teamwork and good possession. This is not an opinion, it's a fact. If you can find a manager in 2024 who can play exciting football and win games with this as his go-to plan, you can add him to the list.
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So what. Its not a sustainable route to success as Ole demonstrated. I said it before, if the United way and legacy of this club means anything its exciting, attacking football, not sitting deep and wait to counter against Burnley or whoever we play. Its not acceptable for one of the top3 clubs with most expensive squad to settle for such limited ambitions. Get some perspective
 
Gordon Godot said:
So what. Its not a sustainable route to success as Ole demonstrated. I said it before, if the United way and legacy of this club means anything its exciting, attacking football, not sitting deep and wait to counter against Burnley or whoever we play. Its not acceptable for one of the top3 clubs with most expensive squad to settle for such limited ambitions. Get some perspective
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I am glad we agree. I just pointed it out, for the people who want to see immediate changes under a new regime, that it's going a long and arduous road.
 
Gordon Godot said:
The same stuff. What 'philosophy'. People talk likes he's mystic Meg or the next Pep. He inherited as style at Ajax and played too it. They were never that great when I saw them and had one stand out season in Europe. The eulogizing of this guy is getting embarrassing.

Also in terms of path, its 100% clear the only route to success in modern football is being able to control games and the ball. A predominantly counter attacking team is not winning the Premier league
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Do you believe given how this season has panned out with the injuries etc that with this group of players a De Zerbi or Potter for example would be able to implement their style without resorting to a 4 2 3 1 counter attack?
 
flameinthesun said:
Do you believe given how this season has panned out with the injuries etc that with this group of players a De Zerbi or Potter for example would be able to implement their style without resorting to a 4 2 3 1 counter attack?
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I am sure they would have done better yes. You always ignore last season, when for long periods we were really poor. Brighton have had injuries too. I can count on one hand the number of really good performances that ETH has delivered in 18 months. Plus his refusal to rotate last season when we had tons of matches, especially in the tin pot cup, was a major factor in our injury list. Why are you so obsessed with ETH?
 
flameinthesun said:
Do you believe given how this season has panned out with the injuries etc that with this group of players a De Zerbi or Potter for example would be able to implement their style without resorting to a 4 2 3 1 counter attack?
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I think there are other, on the face of it, average managers who would get more out of this squad in terms of performances.

Look at what Eddie Howe did with an average squad at Newcastle. They continue to punch above their weight with bang average players turning in above average performances. Spurs have a much better squad than Newcastle, but Postecoglu is, for now, getting more out of them.

Injuries have obviously been a problem. The footballing structure of the club has clearly been a problem (not least letting Ten Hag spend £400 million on the players he's brought in, most of whom I suspect we'll be looking to offload if possible in the not to distant).

But a manager capable of managing Manchester United should have the personality to bring a group of players together and tactical ability to play better football than he's served up this season, and for a lot of last. A decent team should be more than the sum of it's parts, especially when your manager has brought in a number of those parts.
 
Gordon Godot said:
I am sure they would have done better yes. You always ignore last season, when for long periods we were really poor. Brighton have had injuries too. I can count on one hand the number of really good performances that ETH has delivered in 18 months. Plus his refusal to rotate last season when we had tons of matches, especially in the tin pot cup, was a major factor in our injury list. Why are you so obsessed with ETH?
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Relax buddy, no need to go into hyperbole talking about obsession etc im just engaging with you.... So speaking of last season do you think he did a good job or bad job?
 
RedRover said:
I think there are other, on the face of it, average managers who would get more out of this squad in terms of performances.

Look at what Eddie Howe did with an average squad at Newcastle. They continue to punch above their weight with bang average players turning in above average performances. Spurs have a much better squad than Newcastle, but Postecoglu is, for now, getting more out of them.

Injuries have obviously been a problem. The footballing structure of the club has clearly been a problem (not least letting Ten Hag spend £400 million on the players he's brought in, most of whom I suspect we'll be looking to offload if possible in the not to distant).

But a manager capable of managing Manchester United should have the personality to bring a group of players together and tactical ability to play better football than he's served up this season, and for a lot of last. A decent team should be more than the sum of it's parts, especially when your manager has brought in a number of those parts.
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Totally agree. Given our history of the last ten years though, I have serious doubt a new manager could come in and get us playing fluid football right off.

We have had games under Ten Hag where we played great football; it makes you wonder why we can’t do it more often.

There are managers overperforming right now with squads that are not as good as ours on paper. Ten Hag was one of those managers before he came here. Managing MU is a whole different level of a challenge.
 
NLunited said:
Totally agree. Given our history of the last ten years though, I have serious doubt a new manager could come in and get us playing fluid football right off.

We have had games under Ten Hag where we played great football; it makes you wonder why we can’t do it more often.

There are managers overperforming right now with squads that are not as good as ours on paper. Ten Hag was one of those managers before he came here. Managing MU is a whole different level of a challenge.
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Ten Hag managed the most expensive team in the league regarding transfer fees and wages spent on the squad. Ajax's wage budget alone is the same as up to 13 of other Dutch teams in the league combined. He had them performing exactly as you would expect an expensively assembled squad should.
 
NLunited said:
Totally agree. Given our history of the last ten years though, I have serious doubt a new manager could come in and get us playing fluid football right off.

We have had games under Ten Hag where we played great football; it makes you wonder why we can’t do it more often.

There are managers overperforming right now with squads that are not as good as ours on paper. Ten Hag was one of those managers before he came here. Managing MU is a whole different level of a challenge.
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ETH was playing in the Dutch league. its a really, really poor league, where he managed the absolute giant. People seem to keep missing this point. They also had a strong football structure. That is lacking at United but he seemed to believe he knew it all and could recruit from that tiny pond and build a top team. That is naivety bordering on stupidity
 
RedRover said:
I think there are other, on the face of it, average managers who would get more out of this squad in terms of performances.

Look at what Eddie Howe did with an average squad at Newcastle. They continue to punch above their weight with bang average players turning in above average performances. Spurs have a much better squad than Newcastle, but Postecoglu is, for now, getting more out of them.

Injuries have obviously been a problem. The footballing structure of the club has clearly been a problem (not least letting Ten Hag spend £400 million on the players he's brought in, most of whom I suspect we'll be looking to offload if possible in the not to distant).

But a manager capable of managing Manchester United should have the personality to bring a group of players together and tactical ability to play better football than he's served up this season, and for a lot of last. A decent team should be more than the sum of it's parts, especially when your manager has brought in a number of those parts.
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You make some very good points. Thing is, the managers you mention have the luck to be building sides from the ground up. The same luxury was afforded to Arteta, and only recently you hear groans about falling behind in the title race. This is a luxury a United manager is not afforded because there are too many things (on the commercial side) at stake. Get more out of the squad and finish in the top-four doesn't cut it at United. We have a much different endgame. Also, the main reason Howe, Ange or Bielsa are able to punch above their weight is because they don't have to convince anyone to work hard off the ball. They manage players whose fortunes are tied to their clubs' success. This hasn't been the case at United for a very long time.
 
NLunited said:
There are managers overperforming right now with squads that are not as good as ours on paper. Ten Hag was one of those managers before he came here.
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He had the best and most expensive squad in the league by far. It's literally just that one season in Europe years ago that was the outlier and it's hardly the first time that it happened. Plenty of teams and managers have done it while never achieving anything of note again.
 
Gala away was the turning point for me and ,even though Onana's performance got rightly criticised , it was the way we were so ridiculously open throughout the match that, even with a 2 goal lead, it was a formality that Gala would get back into the match.

There is alot of stupidity to be had in how ETH has dealt with certain in-game decisions this season.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
You make some very good points. Thing is, the managers you mention have the luck to be building sides from the ground up. The same luxury was afforded to Arteta, and only recently you hear groans about falling behind in the title race. This is a luxury a United manager is not afforded because there are too many things (on the commercial side) at stake. Get more out of the squad and finish in the top-four doesn't cut it at United. We have a much different endgame. Also, the main reason Howe, Ange or Bielsa are able to punch above their weight is because they don't have to convince anyone to work hard off the ball. They manage players whose fortunes are tied to their clubs' success. This hasn't been the case at United for a very long time.
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I disagree, United managers will get time if there is progress. Ole hit a wall and wouldn't hire a top coach, though I read recently he pushed back on McKenna and Carrick who wanted a more expansive playing style. It comes down to performances. Other managers werent given time as they were just awful, Moyes, LVG etc
 
crossy1686 said:
Ten Hag managed the most expensive team in the league regarding transfer fees and wages spent on the squad. Ajax's wage budget alone is the same as up to 13 of other Dutch teams in the league combined. He had them performing exactly as you would expect an expensively assembled squad should.
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So ETH at Ajax is a Bit like Pep in England or Germany and possibly even Barcelona where he inherited arguably the greatest club side of all time. For all the hyperbolic plaudits he gets, no manager in the history of the sport has had the kind of resources Pep has at his disposal. A Pep doesnt work at United because we never had as strong a squad Pep inherited at city or Bayern or Barca and if United buy a bad siging we force managers to stick with that player. Pep wouldnt be happy having to fit Joel Glazers favourite, Martial into his lineups!

Pep hasnt just had massive amounts of money spent on him, the infrastructure (and probable cheating) that went on before he joined Citu had the club primed to make the most of him and for him to make the most of his qualities. So Silver spoon Pep should , on paper, be getting the success he has gotten at every club he has managed. Its remarkable how unobjective the football community is about silver spoon Pep.

ETH has managerial experience at a big european club. Pep had no experience when he walked into the Barca role.

What seperates United from City in winning the league/CL is not just Pep a manager, far from it.
 
Gordon Godot said:
I disagree, United managers will get time if there is progress. Ole hit a wall and wouldn't hire a top coach, though I read recently he pushed back on McKenna and Carrick who wanted a more expansive playing style. It comes down to performances. Other managers werent given time as they were just awful, Moyes, LVG etc
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That's your opinion and i respect it. In my opinion, a move towards the style we both agree the club should prioritise, will be a bloody mess in the short-term and will demand a lot of good faith from a disheartened fanbase. Players will sit on their contracts and big decisions will be scrutinized after every dropped point. No manager available can survive this without full support. For me, it's a monumental shift in tactics, personnel and dressing room culture that's needed. As Solskjaer said, "you know where you're walking into", so the mangers wre obviously at fault and it's correct to suggest we need to find the "right" one. But, until now, this has been a task that the powers that be at United conveniently placed on the managers' shoulders. Theirs are the big decisions, theirs is the blame. Hopefully, we'll see a change under INEOS' management.
 
In this case I'm firmly in the manager's camp. Their 3rd man run practice drills remain a joke to watch. Suck it up and deal with it.
 
Teja said:
In this case I'm firmly in the manager's camp. Their 3rd man run practice drills remain a joke to watch. Suck it up and deal with it.
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He's obviously a boring as you'd expect even being the scenes. It's partly on the coaches and manager to inspire players, in fact it's a pretty key part of the job where I expect he fails miserably. How culpable the players are I'm not sure, but I've seen lesser players looking good in drills before the games at Old Trafford. So I'm not sure really why that would be.
 
pocco said:
He's obviously a boring as you'd expect even being the scenes. It's partly on the coaches and manager to inspire players, in fact it's a pretty key part of the job where I expect he fails miserably. How culpable the players are I'm not sure, but I've seen lesser players looking good in drills before the games at Old Trafford. So I'm not sure really why that would be.
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If a professional footballer has to be inspired to work his ass for the money he receives than he is free to join some just-for-fun 5-a-side where the joy of playing with his mates inspires him to greatness. I think there is no football club where the primadonnas reign more freely than United. Ok, FC Bayern has the same problem.
 
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croadyman said:
Yeah getting someone from our City rivals tells me that they see no one as unobtainable
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Exactly. I'm optimisic for our future and I'm patient to see how all this turns out. We can only go in the right direction with the best in class footballing minds steering our club.
 
mk7 said:
If a professional footballer has to be inspired to work his ass for the money he receives than he is free to join some just-for-fun 5-a-side where the joy of playing with his mates inspires him to greatness. I think there is no football club where the primadonnas reign more freely than United. Ok, FC Bayern has the same problem.
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Rightly or wrongly, that money quickly becomes the norm or not enough for these guys. Give anyone a huge salary but boring work and boring management and most people would quickly just get bored. People walk away from well paying jobs because they can't stand the work. It's just human nature.

These guys, like everyone else, get bored, they lose confidence and belief.... this is what the crux of 'form' In players is in many cases. If you can't remember for yourself then look up examples of SAF inspiring players or giving them team talks and it's easy to see where Ten Hag falls short. I do agree that players need to uphold their end of the bargain and have to keep themselves grounded and working hard, but this is part of the remit of a manager to create that environment.
 
VP89 said:
This is the worst reason to go against a manager
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In my opinion I don't think they are. I think this group actually tries, and I suspect they're not enjoying the football really either. I think we get hung out to dry tactically and we really lack ideas in attack. The players clearly aren't top level where they can just dance round defences regularly and the coaching has failed to show them how we're supposed to be breaking teams down or exploiting any weakness they do have. Everyone can see it and teams are now very aware of our weaknesses, which became more apparent as last season went on.
 
pocco said:
In my opinion I don't think they are. I think this group actually tries, and I suspect they're not enjoying the football really either. I think we get hung out to dry tactically and we really lack ideas in attack. The players clearly aren't top level where they can just dance round defences regularly and the coaching has failed to show them how we're supposed to be breaking teams down or exploiting any weakness they do have. Everyone can see it and teams are now very aware of our weaknesses, which became more apparent as last season went on.
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The article says they're tired of hearing instructions and don't enjoy staying an hour late to hear things when English is their second language.

They're not being hung out to dry mate. A lot of these players are on 200+k a week.

I dont deny they aren't trying in the pitch but any tactically intricate manager will need to drill the nuances of his tactics home. And if they aren't properly consumed they will look more lost than what is designed. To suggest the players are just being hung out to dry is way too one sided, especially when you consider some of these players have form for chewing up and spitting managers out when they have to work a bit more.
 
VP89 said:
The article says they're tired of hearing instructions and don't enjoy staying an hour late to hear things when English is their second language.

They're not being hung out to dry mate. A lot of these players are on 200+k a week.

I dont deny they aren't trying in the pitch but any tactically intricate manager will need to drill the nuances of his tactics home. And if they aren't properly consumed they will look more lost than what is designed. To suggest the players are just being hung out to dry is way too one sided, especially when you consider some of these players have form for chewing up and spitting managers out when they have to work a bit more.
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The way I interpret it, the issue is that ETH is allegedly doing the same repetitive sessions without making them more intelligible or engaging.
 
JPRouve said:
The way I interpret it, the issue is that ETH is allegedly doing the same repetitive sessions without making them more intelligible or engaging.
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Yes, but I grow weary of briefs like this. Players didn't like LVGs methods, players didn't like Rangnick methods, players didn't like Mckenna for being too schoolmastery.

Its athletic I know but it sounds like a rinse and repeat soundbite.
 
JPRouve said:
The way I interpret it, the issue is that ETH is allegedly doing the same repetitive sessions without making them more intelligible or engaging.
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Evidence on the pitch and even how ETH speaks in pressers would support this.

He seems to be of the opinion that the way to success is having the same players doing the same routines over and over. Personally, I don't think this is something that can work because for this you essentially need the same players playing every game. And perhaps more pertinently, you need a team that will be able to impose it's will against any opponent, which is something that is difficult to do in the PL.
 
VP89 said:
Yes, but I grow weary of briefs like this. Players didn't like LVGs methods, players didn't like Rangnick methods, players didn't like Mckenna for being too schoolmastery.

Its athletic I know but it sounds like a rinse and repeat soundbite.
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That's why good teams sack managers regularly, because they are not good enough. The players that may have complained about LVG aren't the same player with have today, a substantial part of the current team was brought under ETH and they are no better than the rest.

So I don't really care about things like "briefs", I care about whether there is truth/validity to the points made. It's funny but I just remembered an interview from RVP months after joining United, he was full of praise for Meulensteen and United because the training sessions where fun and varied.

Meulensteen took most of the first-team sessions at United and his attention to detail was seen as a crucial factor behind their 20th Premier League title last season. He was popular among the players, who did not want him to leave when David Moyes was appointed.
“The way he trains is exceptional,” said Van Persie, who, according to Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger was talked into joining United by Meulensteen.

“He is truly one of the best coaches in the world. I have had a lot of good trainers, but it is the way he prepares our team for games. Every match is different, so every training session in the build-up to games is unique.

“We know exactly what to expect and he wins points for us through his training. We have won a lot of games by the odd goal and they are point winners, which we train for.”
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I'm almost sure that Rooney and others shared similar views in interviews.
 
flameinthesun said:
Do you think tactically if we were to provide him with more technical players e.g. a De Jong type midfielder, better technical fullbacks, a better striker and 1 or 2 more technical wingers, that tactically he would be able to pull of what he is trying to implement from a tactical perspective? e.g. the two 8s pushed up etc.

My view is he has shown tactically in previous roles as well as the first season that he cleary has something about him. After all he was able to have a successful first season depsite having to abandon the way he truly wanted to play due to the players ability. This season it seems he thought it was time to go back to what he wanted to originally implement and the injury crisis pretty much scuppered that (and yes you can point to the first couple games and say we were still not looking good). However I feel like if you do recruit in the right players to this tactic it could be successful. After all it really is not that much different in terms of positions, rotations to what he played at Ajax, I think the key difference is its lacking in a few areas mainly technical fullbacks, a De Jong type midfielder and better attackers.
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The only thing he has shown is he can be pragmatic, and funnily enough that's something that seems to be missing in his arsenal this season.

ETH success last season was down to taking a pragmatic approach, 4231 with Bruno in the attacking mid spot and most of all incredible Rashford and Casemiro form. There isn't much more to it, any other manager executing this approach would be very unimpressive from a tactical point of view, but since ETH already came here with a reputation of being a good coach, there was very little doubt last season.
This season however we CLEARLY see his ideas, and everyone can judge how much of a tactician he really is.
 
JPRouve said:
That's why good teams sack managers regularly, because they are not good enough. The players that may have complained about LVG aren't the same player with have today, a substantial part of the current team was brought under ETH and they are no better than the rest.

So I don't really care about things like "briefs", I care about whether there is truth/validity to the points made. It's funny but I just remembered an interview from RVP months after joining United, he was full of praise for Meulensteen and United because the training sessions where fun and varied.



I'm almost sure that Rooney and others shared similar views in interviews.
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They're on a hattrick of finding sessions either strenuous, or boring, or strict. Mckenna, Rangnick and now ETH - and its all happening when the chips are down. In other words they lose focus in the process when they are low in form, which to me points to a wider mentality issue rather than training sessions not being fun enough.
 
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