Excellent bait
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Good post this. Agree on Rashford, think Bruno is similar. The single pivot this season is very curious - consider how many analysts Utd have watching these games back and must be pointing out how open the team are in transition and how rarely the team play successfully through the lines….but Martinez is crucial to that, the only CB who consistently finds those passes.
This is why it’s so hard to make a judgement yet on ETH, and discern if it is personnel or plan that’s the problem
I have no idea how he is gonna set up the midfield when Casemiro, Mainoo, eriksen, Mount, Bruno and McT are all fit…
But tbh, I don’t think he knows either.
But tbh, I don’t think he knows either.
Casemiro = get the ball
Mainoo = keep the ball
Bruno = play the ball
could turn out to be very nice if those 3 click
I like the Bruno play the ball comment. You do watch this guy right? He is a give away machine, usually when you really need him to hold it. Sorry, but he is the catalyst for what this team has become, has some talent, lazy, with a sense of entitlement. I thought when he first came in he was a good signing, his play has deteriorated from then and his reward is being named captain. How far we have slipped!
Mejrbi sub was just classless
Totally agree, still trying to find out what it is they are trying to accomplish around the box. The passes are slow to materialize and I don't think there is a game plan. Not sure how they train, but it is kind of confusing. I have now seen 5 balls come out into what was known as "Scholes" territory where he use to sit and drive em home. They seem to be disjointed, not sure what to do, then end up crossing with a single guy in the box and even if he gets it, misses the net. Keane hits the nail on the head every time, they lack the technical detail and are not clinical. Is this ETH or his staff that are not in tune?
He’s getting tired players off the pitch, someone has to come on?
Genuine question: would a manager with counter-attacking approach do better with this group of players? I know Bruno, Rashford etc. aren't world-beaters but they have specific strengths: even average players like Maguire and McTominay do.
I'm starting to think, apart from his in-game weaknesses, EtH might have been the wrong fit for this squad. Now whether there exists a right profile for this ragtag bunch, who knows.. but, as an example, Daniel Levy admitted that going for Mourinho and Conte had been errors on his part. Postecoglu might not be a better manager than those 2, but he's definitely a better match for Spurs.
Then again, signings like Vicario, Van de Ven and Maddison help..
I'm starting to think, apart from his in-game weaknesses, EtH might have been the wrong fit for this squad. Now whether there exists a right profile for this ragtag bunch, who knows.. but, as an example, Daniel Levy admitted that going for Mourinho and Conte had been errors on his part. Postecoglu might not be a better manager than those 2, but he's definitely a better match for Spurs.
Then again, signings like Vicario, Van de Ven and Maddison help..
Spurs had a taste of United level injuries and had a terrible return of points. Besides that though, I think managers at United cant afford to play a counter attacking style in Season 2. They need to progress the play or they'll die trying. Counter attacking football isn't really a sustainable plan A for all the games.
In my mind, it's pretty straightforward: Mainoo/Casemiro holding, Eriksen/Mount as the playmaker 8, Bruno/McTominay as the attacking 8.
Hope to see this atleast for some weeks on a regular basis. What's up with all these injuries.. Mount was fit for multiple seasons at Chelsea, now he's perennially injured!
Normally I'd agree but having a style of play, even if it's counter-attacking, is better than not having one. The profile of midfield signing would've been different from Mount if we had gone for the counter-attack approach.. and I daresay, it would've suited Bruno and Casemiro to a T.
It seems clear now that EtH backed the way he knows and the squad haven't taken to it. Yes, injuries have played a part but the main attackers, ie Bruno and Rashford, aren't suited to it and they probably know it.
Will never happen as long as King McT is in the squad. Kidding of course feck me watch Mainoo get dropped once Case comes back.
We have a style. That's obvious. It's just implemented poorly thus far.
What do you think are the reasons for it being poorly implemented (to the point that, at least for me, it's non-existent)? Do you think it's possible to implement with Bruno and Rashford in the starting eleven?
We have played 30 games and we still haven't managed to score 4 goals or more in a single game, even against a League One team with our full team. It is really concerning
Times we scored 4+ goals in a game in previous seasons:
12-13 : 9
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Moyes
13-14: 7
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Dire LVG:
14-15: 2
15-16: 2
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Mourinho:
16-17:6
17-18:9
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Mourinho+Ole:
18-19: 3
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Ole:
19-20: 8
20-21: 7
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Ole+Rangnick:
21-22: 3
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ETH:
22-23: 3
23-24: 0
Times we scored 4+ goals in a game in previous seasons:
12-13 : 9
--------------
Moyes
13-14: 7
--------------
Dire LVG:
14-15: 2
15-16: 2
--------------
Mourinho:
16-17:6
17-18:9
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Mourinho+Ole:
18-19: 3
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Ole:
19-20: 8
20-21: 7
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Ole+Rangnick:
21-22: 3
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ETH:
22-23: 3
23-24: 0
Injuries, getting used to the system, confidence, ten hags own errors in the season. But we do have a very identifiable style in directness and pressing well. We rely on a suicidal rest defence which works great if we don't make a mistake but has us exposed a lot.
I dont think Bruno and Rashford can afford to be off form and in the same team. And I think Bruno only works if he's with Eriksen/Mainoo to calm things down. Rashford is a dud this season, that's a bigger worry.
When Casemiro comes back if he replaces Mainoo instead of Mctom in the starting lineup it'll be the final nail in the coffin for me. He is a modern coach just not as flexible and aware as we thought.
When Casemiro/ Mount come back to full fitness, if McT continues to start, then I'll join you in ETH out, but I don't think we'll see that. We've already seen Eriksen starting instead of McT the last 2 matches.
That’s not really true though. They’ve had more injuries than us (as that also included some of their key attacking players like Maddison and Richarlison, not just defenders and Bentacur) and have handled it much better, they are 8 points ahead and have won 4 of the last 5.
They went through that period of 4 losses in 5 games just prior to that but even then you could look at those defeats and none of them were really particularly embarrassing - they were down to 9 men against Chelsea and almost got points, conceded two stoppage time goals against Wolves and were extremely unlucky not to come out with anything against West Ham and Villa in games they dominated. And prior to that they won 6 of the previous 7.
Spurs are actually a perfect example of a team that has been beaten down by injuries, on top of being unable to replace their (by far) best player they lost in pre-season, a situation that would have perfectly excused their manager - who is also new to the club and the league - yet have actually given a great account of themselves in the half a season already gone. We would not be allowed to judge ETH for another 3 years if he were in the same situation as Ange.
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Nothing good to say about ETH anymore. He's been exposed, poor man-management (he is unable to resolve issues with players, just stubborn nonsense. You make your point, but you resolve the matter. That's man-management). And tactically, well, there are no tactics. Just pick a team, tell them work hard, show pride and hope someone does something to win the match. But that's no more than Semi-pro football management, the sort of approach we, as fans may have. Mainoo and Ericksen are the only players who can get us to play, give us a bit, a bit of a platform. But we still have no midfield, no game-management, still open. Our forwards play as individuals, the whole team does really, which is just sad. Nothing changes, and the reason why is because they cannot change under ETH. He is now a lame duck of a manager.
He's a man from a background of privilege, you can both see and hear it. He loves being the Man Utd manager, loves the spotlight, but he's a fraud. Emery, Pep, Klopp are in a different class.
This weekend we play a Spurs side missing their key attacking talent and were unimpressive against Burnley (ffs...). So let's see what happens.
Mid-table is the best we can expect under this guy. Make no mistake about that.
He's a man from a background of privilege, you can both see and hear it. He loves being the Man Utd manager, loves the spotlight, but he's a fraud. Emery, Pep, Klopp are in a different class.
This weekend we play a Spurs side missing their key attacking talent and were unimpressive against Burnley (ffs...). So let's see what happens.
Mid-table is the best we can expect under this guy. Make no mistake about that.
Hey Sarni. How you bud? On the bolded bit - they have? I'd be curious with that stat. I know Newcastle and Spurs both got decimated with injuries not too long ago. But it feels like we've started the season decimated with injuries and at one point, basically had arguably 9-10 of our first XI out?
We've never had 9-10 of our first team out. Most of the injuries have been to squad players, with a handful of first team players being out at any one time. The attack & 'keeper have been available for most of the season
Unbeaten in 2024! Woohoo!
What a bunch of crap.
He's already delivered 2 cup finals and top 3 finish.
We also have clear tactics and patterns. Do we succeed in delivering them is another question. What the hell do you mean "background of privilege"? He has worked hard in football all his life and he has achieved success that 99% of people wont.
Pep might be a different class, Klopp aswell. But their teams also struggle when they get injuries. Emery has already shown that he can't manage a big team and just blew 2 goals lead against us, allowing us to trample his team in the process.
Against Spurs the same thing will happen as last time. They'll play high line and we'll be dangerous. Without dodgy Var decision we'll beat them this time. Last game against them we were the better team and we deserved to win.
It's a weird mental coping mechanism, when the team plays like badly with first choice players you tell yourself "it would be better with injured player X in the team", despite that player only being a backup anyways.
His family is rich.
You mean who is going to partner McTominay?
That is simply not true.
We play the same football we played the last time we had a manager from the Ajax school. Lots of possession, lots of patience, lots of sideway passes, aaaand the penetration of a Ken doll. We are playing with a bit more attacking intent now, thankfully, LvGs football was boring beyond comprehension, but it looks very similar, imo. So he definitely has strong and clear ideas on how our football should be played. It just isn`t working very well with the players available here, in this league. And it is not a great watch.
What do you mean by this? His family is rich because his father worked very hard hard to build up a business which his brothers took over. He gets nothing from that. I have my doubts about Ten Hag as well but he worked very hard his whole life to get to where he is now. At every club he has been he worked harder than anyone.
Lots of possession compared to who? Also, "patience" wouldn't be a word I'd use to describe this team.
9th for average possession, 9th for passess completed per 90'. We're not LvG v2 team.
There is clear intention how ETH wants to play but it's not effective, not good to watch, and dangerous as we keep so open in the midfield. It's just shit tactics by stubborn manager.
Eh, he is stubborn and not flexible but I feel shit players is the bigger issue, since we've seen his tactics work great with better team on the field.
I really want to see us field Casemiro and Mainoo in midfield with Licha and Fatty boom boom back in defence.
I really want to see us field Casemiro and Mainoo in midfield with Licha and Fatty boom boom back in defence.
Arsenal under Emery finished with 70 points. United under Ten Hag finished with 75. Emery also took Arsenal to a cup final (the Europa League). Hard to make distinctions between them off those records.
COme off it. Watch Brighton with a team that cost a fraction of ours and few regular internationals, yet they play boldly out from the back under pressure, have midfielders who are press resistant, and can keep pressure on around the opposition box. They are a very well coached team. So ETH needs a world class team on the pitch to deliver. More rubbish excuses
When is say patience i mean the players are often waiting for an opponent to come close before they release the pass. Something a lot of teams do these days. Especially from the back. Some of them manage to do it really well. For us, it just makes us slow and lethargic with no gains at all. Apart from higher possession stats.
9th for possession is far lower than i expected!
Fully agree on the shit tactics.
But we don't have higher possession stats. Our 3 league games with higher possession were a defeat vs Palace, a defeat vs Bournemouth and win vs Forest (we've been losing since minute 2 to minute 52). We only get high possession if the opposition is happy to let us have the ball. Otherwise we can't keep the ball. We struggled offensively under van Gaal but at lease we could hold to the ball when we wanted to.
Unbeliavable nonsense. This thread has become unreadable.
That’s the point though isn’t it, ETH doesnt have those. Who’s fault that is is debatable, Casemiro and Mount apparently were ‘club’ signings, but Amrabat an ETH choice. I’m more inclined to look at the inclusion of Mainoo and Eriksen and the pursuit of De Jong as evidence that ETH knows we need better press resistance and ball progression in midfield, but the club haven’t yet been able to deliver the right targets - but I’m being charitable to Ten Hag with this perspective
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