Does Erik does any coaching? What coaching? He ask the team to press and most time it doesn't work because most players gave a half-hearted press. Often that you realise, they only start pressing once we are 0-1 or 0-2 down. Most time, our defenders and goalkeeper are passing the ball in our half and once it passes half way, everything becomes chaotic. If McTominay is so bad a tracking runners, why does it keep happening over and over again. If you are the boss and your direct report isn't doing what you want, you replace him. This isn't rocket science.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I feel for him a little bit. Even the footballers we are linked to these days are let’s all be honest second rate. He’s got a rough job to be successful in this budget era for the next few years at least while the clubs finances are improved.
It’s incredibly hard to take growing up seeing the players we used to be linked with seriously compared to now.
There was a time where Zidane, R9, Raul all the greats were linked to us and it kinda made sense they’d come but these days it’s just laughable to imagine with the clubs current standing in the game.
It’s incredibly hard to take growing up seeing the players we used to be linked with seriously compared to now.
There was a time where Zidane, R9, Raul all the greats were linked to us and it kinda made sense they’d come but these days it’s just laughable to imagine with the clubs current standing in the game.
Klopp and Guardiola, good managers do
In response to you, did we ever get any of those greats?? NO! Did Fergie win the league with O'Shea, Silva twins, declining Gary Neville, aged Giggs etc?? Yes he did. That's the impact of a manager. Ten Hag has got to go, he's too arrogant and clueless.
99.99% of managers could only dream of the budget he's had to spend and basically all he had to do was to reach top 4. He's been backed more than any other manager and there's a decent chance he'll keep his job even if he fails that as expectations are lower than at any time in club's modern history. In addition the club's fanbase is the most forgiving in the world of football, there are literally people saying we should keep him unless we're getting relegated. Hardly the roughest job out there.
Yeah my point exactly, stop trying to chase all timers. United fans are obsessed with getting another Fergie level figure or someone that’s going to be here forever. Those two are outliers.
Fergie never faced this City side though in the league with an ageing Giggsy and Silva twins.
That United sides were quite poor between 2010 and 2012 despite some league wins. In fact the whole league was for a few years I would argue after the dominance cycle of a few years prior with Chelsea and peak United in Europe.
It was both genius and circumstance Fergie’s last few seasons went far better than we should have expected on paper.
Perhaps this season we had a shot after city’s treble but there are arguably 3 sides even this season stronger than our title winning side in 2011 for example.
If anything what I watched is that we often pressing in the first 30 mins of the game but stopped due to fatigue. Looks like we are watching different games.
I found this image below (stats recorded up to 19th October 2023)
There it is. In that period we should have scored more: our xG was much higher than our goals scored.If anything what I watched is that we often pressing in the first 30 mins of the game but stopped due to fatigue. Looks like we are watching different games.
I found this image below (stats recorded up to 19th October 2023)
Clear what Hag wants to do, but we can’t do it consistently. I think when our main players come back, the struggles will continue. I hope I’m wrong and it clicks and we go on a run.
Anytime we have a few days between matches a section of the fan base gets amnesia and forgets everything that happened on the pitch this season to look for excuses for why EtH is failing.
Trying to limit his errors to bad transfers because of a poor footballing structure is total nonsense. If that was his only failing then many would be more sympathetic.
When he got the job the things we expected were entertaining football, passing out from the back, controlling possession football and improvement year on year. In his first season, he achieved some of this but this season he’s failed on all counts.
We lost 5 of our 8 games in December. I’m lost as to how anyone can even want him as part of the INEOS rebuild. He doesn’t understand the league and evidently isn’t even that good of a coach. An inferior LVG with none of the personality and charm.
“At some point, André will go,” Ten Hag said. “We are totally happy; we constructed this group of goalkeepers because we are completely comfortable with this. We have confidence in them both, they are both very good goalkeepers, both experienced at the highest levels, so I think we can have a lot of belief that we have cover and not only cover, there is real competition between them three.”
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...hey-must-be-able-to-cope-with-unique-pressure
Onana made huge mistakes in CL, he basically cost us the CL, and yet Bayindir did not play ... he didn't even play in the meaningless cup, and he won't play against Wigan, a League One club. So, what exactly does it mean "there is real competition between them three”?
I guess he can't say "The three of them can compete as much as they want, but my boy will always play, no matter how many blunders he makes."
Ten Hag talks about "standards", but I don't believe him.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...hey-must-be-able-to-cope-with-unique-pressure
Onana made huge mistakes in CL, he basically cost us the CL, and yet Bayindir did not play ... he didn't even play in the meaningless cup, and he won't play against Wigan, a League One club. So, what exactly does it mean "there is real competition between them three”?
I guess he can't say "The three of them can compete as much as they want, but my boy will always play, no matter how many blunders he makes."
Ten Hag talks about "standards", but I don't believe him.
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A former player of his has just given a small bit of insight in Ten Hag as a coach to a Danish sport magazine that I found interesting. It's from his days as coach at FC Utrecht.
"[...] There was an awesome culture in the club, and we were a winning team."
"He's a fantastic guy and a fantastic person. I have nothing bad to say about that man. He's the best coach i've had, and I'm not just saying that because he's now the coach at United. His door is always open, and you can always go and talk with him. But you also have to listen, or else he will run you over."
Source (in Danish): Link
"[...] There was an awesome culture in the club, and we were a winning team."
"He's a fantastic guy and a fantastic person. I have nothing bad to say about that man. He's the best coach i've had, and I'm not just saying that because he's now the coach at United. His door is always open, and you can always go and talk with him. But you also have to listen, or else he will run you over."
Source (in Danish): Link
Fairly certain we’re now in the lame duck period of his stint.
He’ll limp along until the end of the season but he has been damaged by operating within a completely broken system, and by doubling down on certain mistakes of his own eg. Antony & McTominay.
If he had been joining as manager this summer into a (hopefully) stable system I could see him doing much better but unfortunately he is damaged goods now and will need a fresh start elsewhere, and the dressing room will require yet another reset.
The players will know there’s a good chance he isn’t here beyond this season and I expect we’re likely to see a similar half season to under Rangnick.
This is certainly why Ineos have come out backing him, in the hope of minimising the chance of the players downing tools, but I don’t think it will work. This bunch of players are completely unreliable.
Also I think this season is already seen as a write off and therefore they may as well save six months worth of compensation pay by keeping him where he is for now.
I suspect ETH knows all this too and we’ll have a fairly drab second half of the season unless he decides to throw caution entirely to the wind.
He’ll limp along until the end of the season but he has been damaged by operating within a completely broken system, and by doubling down on certain mistakes of his own eg. Antony & McTominay.
If he had been joining as manager this summer into a (hopefully) stable system I could see him doing much better but unfortunately he is damaged goods now and will need a fresh start elsewhere, and the dressing room will require yet another reset.
The players will know there’s a good chance he isn’t here beyond this season and I expect we’re likely to see a similar half season to under Rangnick.
This is certainly why Ineos have come out backing him, in the hope of minimising the chance of the players downing tools, but I don’t think it will work. This bunch of players are completely unreliable.
Also I think this season is already seen as a write off and therefore they may as well save six months worth of compensation pay by keeping him where he is for now.
I suspect ETH knows all this too and we’ll have a fairly drab second half of the season unless he decides to throw caution entirely to the wind.
I'm not massively sure on him anymore but I also think there would be major downsides to sacking him now. You'd need an interim and we all saw how that went with Rangnick, it shows you've given up on the season (even if we kind of look like we already have).
I kind of feel checked out of him as the manager though. I gloss over any quotes I see from him as they all feel a bit pointless. I think there is something to said about having that stubborn perseverance to get yourself out of a rut but I get the feeling the players are starting to become less receptive to it. Sometimes you've got to switch it up and not keep coming out with the generic 'we must improve, bounce back, need a reaction, stick to the principals, etc..' stuff.
I kind of feel checked out of him as the manager though. I gloss over any quotes I see from him as they all feel a bit pointless. I think there is something to said about having that stubborn perseverance to get yourself out of a rut but I get the feeling the players are starting to become less receptive to it. Sometimes you've got to switch it up and not keep coming out with the generic 'we must improve, bounce back, need a reaction, stick to the principals, etc..' stuff.
I think essentially Ten Hag himself is now operating as an interim manager.
They have yet to down tools under ETH at any point. They have continued to play this system consistently since the start of the season, and in fact, have bailed him out numerous times. Under Rangnick, they had already gone through a really bad period with the return of Ronaldo and the sacking of Ole, to then be thrown under the bus by this guy who was never going to lose his job and never bothered to coach them properly or set them up to win games, it's no surprise they gave up. I've been in workplace situations where the company through incompetence has set you up to fail and you just eventually give in and want to leave because there is no way you can turn it around no matter how hard you work. Rangnick turned this into them "downing tools" and weaponizing the fanbase against them. When really, they had simply hit rock bottom.
You make some fair points and I admit 'downing tools' is maybe a harsher term than intended but yours is also quite a charitable read of the situation.
The players are not consistently playing to their highest potential, yes they have shown what they are capable of at times but more often than not this season they haven't.
This is only going to get worse when they start to figure out that Ineos aren't interested in retaining Ten Hag long term. They're only human, and their motivation to play for the manager will be affected now and at this level it will be ruthlessly exposed.
Added to this, there's clearly a few characters in the team who are not happy with the manager or club eg. Varane, Casemiro (why Ineos think it's a smart idea to brief that they want him gone I have no idea...) anyone who is pally with Sancho, Martial, Rashford when he's not playing every minute. Even Bruno looks like he'd be anywhere else these days and he was always one you could rely on for effort.
I don't disagree on your assessment of both this season and Rangnick's time. But do you know what is really atrocious?
While at rock bottom, having a go at each other etc Rangnick averaged 1.54 points per game in the PL. United this season, while the players clearly haven't downed tools, average 1.55, essentially the same.
If Rangnick did not even coach them properly, what is EtH doing?
We had a better team, that's one reason. I mean, not by much, but we had a better team.
EtH is just playing suicidal football and thinking if he keeps doing the same thing over and over again it will give him different results.
Apart from the likes of Sancho, can you blame them? They are forced by the manager to play this way constantly expecting different results, it's madness.
we spend more than clubs above us
Can we cancel Amrabat loan? How's he been unavailable for December yet magically fit for AFCON. Unacceptable getting him on loan. Cancel it immediately
Huh? Keep him on loan we need midfield cover. He’s not a problem, some of our entitled youngsters and overpaid former stars are.
If anything what I watched is that we often pressing in the first 30 mins of the game but stopped due to fatigue. Looks like we are watching different games.
I found this image below (stats recorded up to 19th October 2023)
We watched the same game, Rashford always give a half-hearted press and so does McTominay but he doesn't have a 3rd gear which is not his fault. Does stats matters when you lose half of the games? I rather have bad stats and win 70% of my games.
400 million later and we have a worse team. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
It does matter. It reflects to what the manager wants to do, playing high line, high intensity pressing, attacking, and playing from the back. It provides reason as there is actually identity or playing style why some people want him to stay and believe with better structure including the recruitment, there is potential.
What's with all the "illnesses" to players??
It's January, everyone gets ill all the time with the flu, covid, random cold viruses. Why wouldn't that apply to footballers?
Genuine question - Do you think it’s just a personnel issue at the moment as to why that playing style is not working?
We seem easy to play out against and really struggle to play through the lines. In the second half there tonight everything was in front of a poor Wigan, there never seems to be a midfielder available to receive the ball and play forward, and few combinations/rotations that free up players.
I’m reserving judgement until Mount, Martinez and Casemiro are back, but I’m starting to think the plan is not a great one rather than the execution being the issue
If they don't give him a striker in January they are leaving him for dead.
Which they are.
Which they are.
To replace the 70m striker he signed ?
Who picked Hojlund I don't know, but only Utd could be begging for a striker this time last year, spend £75M on a one in the summer and be in desperate need of one in January because he is shit.
What was up with the late subs? The game is clinically dead with 3 minutes to go and he decides to make late subs like he is handing out debuts to 16 year olds. For guys like Harry Amass or Jack Fletcher it could have been a moment to remember perhaps, but for young players in desperate need for minutes, like Hannibal and Pellistri?
To replace Martial, our only other option.
He just spent £75m on one. Perhaps it wasn’t the wisest choice to choose a 20-year old with 9 Serie A goals to his name who doesn’t even seem to suit our team.
Not the OP but do share some similar views. For the record, I do think that ETH deserves some degree of criticism, particularly around squad building. I'd also add that I dislike certain tactical structures that he seems to persist with (for example, I really dislike the midfield structure of a single pivot and the 2 10s). That said, I do think he is trying to put in place a proactive brand of football, but the lack of quality in the squad (for which he does deserve critique, but I also personally do not want a manager to have an oversized say in this) is a bigger issue than his other "managerial abilities".
I'd like to see us be able to field a team with Licha, Casemiro, and Shaw - 3 players which I think are critical to the type of football I think he is trying to implement, and players for whom there are no squad replacements of acceptable qualities. Even Mount, who I don't particularly rate, I'd like to see have a go with a high press approach. If that team is unable to demonstrate a sufficiently high quality of football over the course of say 10-12 games, I'd be more willing to start criticizing ETH's footballing approach. That said, even with an entirely fit squad, I have doubts around the quality of some of our first team players to be successful in a high-press set up which requires quick and intelligent passing. For example, I believe that Rashford is a player with significant technical flaws (and strengths) that make him unlikely to ever be successful in any non-counter attacking set up.
Same story with our RW
Pissed away money on Sancho and Antony
Where are the doubters now?
A 2-0 win against Wigan surely has turned his fortune around.
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