Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Sarni]

If Varane played, he'd be out again for weeks before long because that's literally what always happens.

So we now have players who are not actually injured, but would become injured if they played. OK.

Son is their striker. fecking hell do you watch Spurs?

When both are healthy, Son drifts towards the left side and swaps positions with Richarlison now. It was the other way around before. If we are pedantic then Richarlison is a vital part of their front three, if not the main striker.

We've missed Casemiro (their closest equivalent is probably Bissouma there), Shaw (Udogie), Antony/Sancho (Kulu), Eriksen / Mount (Sarr?), Malacia (Davies), Licha (VDV), Maguire/Varane (Romero) out for many weeks at a go, in many cases it's months overlapping. They've missed Udogie for a couple games, Bissouma for a couple games and Romero for a couple games. They were able to call upon Davies though, and they were able to call upon Sarr or Hojberg to sort their shit out. There was a period we needed emergency cover in central midfield and Amrabat had to slot in at left back because Reguilon was injured for 3-4 weeks too for fecksake

We have missed Antony for a grand total of 3 games and we have only missed Sancho because ETH chose to axe him. I know you like to clutch at straws to defend your cult hero but even that is desperate at best.

Both teams have largely missed between 2 and 4 starters for extended periods of time, and a few other players here and there. The only difference is that we haven't really missed any of our offensive players for long while they've had two of their key offensive players out for extended periods of time, in reverse we have had our left back out while they have had good injury record with their full backs. So basically if you only reversed our situations, we would have had Shaw for the season but would have missed Bruno and Garnacho instead, which I believe would only lead to even bigger excuse making.

They are similar situations, I do however believe that one single injury that should be the most impactful one of them all is Maddison which is why I think Spurs situation is worse. If we had missed Bruno for large chunk of the season, there would be no end to excuses.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah our injury crisis is pretty unprecedented. However I also get Sarni's point that we had most of our 1st team for the 1st couple of games and were horrible anyway. I personally chalk that down to a lack of tactical familiarity, dreadful preseason and suicidal tactics in some cases. Also Mason Mount.

Anyway it looks like we have a few more months t evaluate and validate our impressions of the season and we know how quickly things change in football. I find myself surprisingly optimistic as long as our injuries clear up and Mount is no longer a certain starter over Mainoo.

It's not really unprecedented though. You'd obviously prefer to not have 3 first team players out for so long, but it's not that uncommon, and having fringe players out all the time is quite normal as well. I do also believe it has had a fairly small impact on our performances as the issue is mainly with tactics, not Martinez and Casemiro missing.

And I won't even get into pointing out that virtually all the players we have missed for extended periods of time this year are the players that were vastly overplayed last year, much of which had been questioned at the time (yet anyone doing that was quickly shot down by his cultists). All 3 of them started Forest game for instance.

 

[Sarni]

@VP89 even beyond trying to outbid each other with who’s had it worse, at best those situations are comparable and the outcomes are vastly different as even you will be able to admit. Spurs have had different players out and have never actually looked useless, going through their games they have barely had 2-3 below average performances this year and even the games where they dropped points were often due to unlucky circumstances/poor finishing but very rarely because they were genuinely poor. They are actually an example of how a team can cope perfectly fine with injuries as long as it has a certain shape and consistency in the way they play.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Yeah our injury crisis is pretty unprecedented. However I also get Sarni's point that we had most of our 1st team for the 1st couple of games and were horrible anyway. I personally chalk that down to a lack of tactical familiarity, dreadful preseason and suicidal tactics in some cases. Also Mason Mount.

Anyway it looks like we have a few more months t evaluate and validate our impressions of the season and we know how quickly things change in football. I find myself surprisingly optimistic as long as our injuries clear up and Mount is no longer a certain starter over Mainoo.

It actually isn't unprecedented at all. I feel like on here far too many people only see things through a united spectrum which is understandable but when sweeping analysis/statements are made i think its important to look at the overall picture. In this case this isn't unprecedented because 3/4 of the league are suffering the exact same injury crisis. I guess that in itself is unprecedented that so many teams have so many injuries.

 

[macheda14]

It actually isn't unprecedented at all. I feel like on here far too many people only see things through a united spectrum which is understandable but when sweeping analysis/statements are made i think its important to look at the overall picture. In this case this isn't unprecedented because 3/4 of the league are suffering the exact same injury crisis. I guess that in itself is unprecedented that so many teams have so many injuries.

Yeah and the teams who are going through it are all falling off. Newcastle now look shit, Chelsea have been shit most of the season. City without KDB have been pretty middling. Spurs are probably the only club out performing their injury problem.

We for the most part of this season have been missing our corse that made us so good last season. Case, Martinez, Varane, Eriksen and Shaw are 5 players that were pretty integral to our good performances last year. Couple that with Rashford playing like absolute shit then you can see why we’ve been so poor.

 

[Sarni]

It actually isn't unprecedented at all. I feel like on here far too many people only see things through a united spectrum which is understandable but when sweeping analysis/statements are made i think its important to look at the overall picture. In this case this isn't unprecedented because 3/4 of the league are suffering the exact same injury crisis. I guess that in itself is unprecedented that so many teams have so many injuries.

It was to be expected after last season.

 

[VP89]

So we now have players who are not actually injured, but would become injured if they played. OK.

No, follow what I said. We have a player who has chronic injuries, and who has been out for weeks this season wherein the only time you can place your hat on them being *fit and not picked* is a matter of what, 3-4 game weeks?

When both are healthy, Son drifts towards the left side and swaps positions with Richarlison now. It was the other way around before. If we are pedantic then Richarlison is a vital part of their front three, if not the main striker.

There is nothing pedantic about it. Richarlson is not their only striker and at the start of the season he was pushed aside for Son to be central despite being fit.

We have missed Antony for a grand total of 3 games and we have only missed Sancho because ETH chose to axe him. I know you like to clutch at straws to defend your cult hero but even that is desperate at best.

ETH chose to axe him because Sancho is an unprofessional cnut, and that has nothing to do with my view on Ten Hag - there are catelogues on his poor professionalism since before him. Despite this, you want to talk about how Antony was away for a grant total of 3 games and then claim that Varane was fit and ignored for a prolonged period of PL Games?

Both teams have largely missed between 2 and 4 starters for extended periods of time, and a few other players here and there. The only difference is that we haven't really missed any of our offensive players for long while they've had two of their key offensive players out for extended periods of time, in reverse we have had our left back out while they have had good injury record with their full backs. So basically if you only reversed our situations, we would have had Shaw for the season but would have missed Bruno and Garnacho instead, which I believe would only lead to even bigger excuse making.

Again, no, they haven't. United have had extended periods of no Casemiro and Eriksen and Mainoo. In other words, throughout almost this entire season they were unable to pick 2 of their starting midfielders. Spurs on the other hand did have the first third of the season where they could pick their entire first choice midfield bar Bentacur. So you're categorically chatting bollocks and I've only taken one area of the pitch. I haven't even started on the defence because that's already been broken down for you. VDV has played in *2x more games than Licha*, Romero has featured in *15/20 Premier League games* and Udogie and Porro have played in 17 and 19 games out of 20 respectively. Their defensive crisis has not been a patch near to ours and its not even debatable.

They are similar situations, I do however believe that one single injury that should be the most impactful one of them all is Maddison which is why I think Spurs situation is worse. If we had missed Bruno for large chunk of the season, there would be no end to excuses.

Again, the level of bullshit here is just insane. Bruno has dropped deeper to accomodate missing Casemiro and Eriksen and Mount for extended weeks, he's not played in his best position near enough. And no Licha + Varane as a combniation has been a huge miss for us. We have no left back for virtually all the season. We are literally playing a RB at LB now because we have no LB and it's not an isolated fixture. Our defensive injuries are way worse, our midfield injuries are way worse and you have the audacity to argue otherwise

 

[gaffs]

@VP89 even beyond trying to outbid each other with who’s had it worse, at best those situations are comparable and the outcomes are vastly different as even you will be able to admit. Spurs have had different players out and have never actually looked useless, going through their games they have barely had 2-3 below average performances this year and even the games where they dropped points were often due to unlucky circumstances/poor finishing but very rarely because they were genuinely poor. They are actually an example of how a team can cope perfectly fine with injuries as long as it has a certain shape and consistency in the way they play.

Fair to say both clubs have had bad injuries.

The biggest difference in my opinion is that the main goal scorers for both team, Son and Rashford, have had markedly different seasons. Though maybe that is to be expected given Son in far more consistent performer.

If Spurs come to Old Trafford this weekend, without Son, Bissouma, Sarr, Maddison and Romero (who all started in the August game) and put one one us, questions are going to be asked.

 

[sparx99]

You don’t need to speculate about injuries. Sky Sports did a whole article about it.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...ield-united-chelsea-and-man-utd-suffered-most

 

[Ludens the Red]

Yeah and the teams who are going through it are all falling off. Newcastle now look shit, Chelsea have been shit most of the season. City without KDB have been pretty middling. Spurs are probably the only club out performing their injury problem.

We for the most part of this season have been missing our corse that made us so good last season. Case, Martinez, Varane, Eriksen and Shaw are 5 players that were pretty integral to our good performances last year. Couple that with Rashford playing like absolute shit then you can see why we’ve been so poor.

Not entirely true, Brighton are doing fine (with IMO the worse injury crisis). City are like this every season up until January anyway. They've missed KDB for chunks of a season before and still comfortably won trophies. The only side with a high injury load performing worse than us pound for pound is Brentford. You also cant ignore the fact our team cost several hundreds millions more to put together than a few of those teams so we will be expected to handle it better. We can argue all day about whether those injuries are the main reason for our form but honestly people are going to be in for a massive shock when those players return and we still look like absolute shit. I do agree that those players are what got us over the line last year but you cannot rely on that being the case again. We've already seen that Casemiro, eriksen and Martinez were performing worse when fit this season.

 

[VP89]

It actually isn't unprecedented at all. I feel like on here far too many people only see things through a united spectrum which is understandable but when sweeping analysis/statements are made i think its important to look at the overall picture. In this case this isn't unprecedented because 3/4 of the league are suffering the exact same injury crisis. I guess that in itself is unprecedented that so many teams have so many injuries.

No, that's bollocks. Newcastle, Chelsea and United have had the most major misses this season.

EDIT - I said the above before coming across this post, which doesn't surprise me one bit:

You don’t need to speculate about injuries. Sky Sports did a whole article about it.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...ield-united-chelsea-and-man-utd-suffered-most

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Yeah our injury crisis is pretty unprecedented. However I also get Sarni's point that we had most of our 1st team for the 1st couple of games and were horrible anyway. I personally chalk that down to a lack of tactical familiarity, dreadful preseason and suicidal tactics in some cases. Also Mason Mount.

Anyway it looks like we have a few more months t evaluate and validate our impressions of the season and we know how quickly things change in football. I find myself surprisingly optimistic as long as our injuries clear up and Mount is no longer a certain starter over Mainoo.

Start of our season was like Liverpools last season.

For United, I’d say fatigue from last season meant having a mostly “fit” team at start of this season didn’t mean much. How many of our players were knackered before the season started and got injured as a result?

This is part of the fitness and injury equation that many ignore. Liverpool didn’t have an injury crisis like us this year as far as I can remember and in their first 12 league games , the lost 4, drew 4 and won 4. That was after having a gruelling season previous and that was accepted as a decent explanation as to why their form and performances collapsed.

United had a similar gruelling season coupled with a World Cup squeezed in between.

For some reason the same logic isn’t applied to United. A manager being better or more proven doesn’t make an exhausted squad any less exhausted so one could argue we are performing similar to Klopps exhausted squad last season and have a bunch of other issues on top . It’s bonkers that this doesn’t get discussed much but I guess “wrong records broken” and “his signings are sh*te” is more cathartic for some.

 

[The Hilton]

ETH chose to axe him because Sancho is an unprofessional cnut, and that has nothing to do with my view on Ten Hag - there are catelogues on his poor professionalism since before him.

It's amazing you get unironically accused of "clutching at straws" to defend the manager in the same post it's suggested that it's Ten Hag's fault that Sancho basically committed gross insubordination publically.

 

[VP89]

It's amazing you get unironically accused of "clutching at straws" to defend the manager in the same post it's suggested that it's Ten Hag's fault that Sancho basically committed gross insubordination publically.

all while @Sarni tries to claim my view is skewed because I'm a ETH guy (?!)

 

[Ash_G]

I think the injuries is a bit misleading as well as if you take CB where we've been most hit, I wouldn't say many of our issues come from them, generally I think the CBs have been ok (don't think we can say Evans for example has done much wrong). I think you can say the same for the defenders, GK aside in general.

I feel we've largely suffered because 1. We have seemingly tactically set up in such a way that leaves us very open to counter attacks and people running through all the space in midfield (as well as making it harder to control games), 2. Onana errors, 3. The attack being v.poor both from a creativity and finishing perspective.

I don't think much of this is down to injuries. Perhaps on the first point, if we'd been able to paid Casemiro and Mainoo things might look different although I don't think that would impact the issues in attack as neither are particularly creative and I'm not convinced ETH wouldn't still try an shoehorn McT in because he brings some goal threat.

 

[VP89]

@VP89 even beyond trying to outbid each other with who’s had it worse, at best those situations are comparable and the outcomes are vastly different as even you will be able to admit. Spurs have had different players out and have never actually looked useless, going through their games they have barely had 2-3 below average performances this year and even the games where they dropped points were often due to unlucky circumstances/poor finishing but very rarely because they were genuinely poor. They are actually an example of how a team can cope perfectly fine with injuries as long as it has a certain shape and consistency in the way they play.

I don't need to outbid anyone. United having worse hit injuries than spurs over a longer time isn't even a debate. It's an objective fact.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I don't need to outbid anyone. United having worse hit injuries than spurs over a longer time isn't even a debate. It's an objective fact.

Sure we have had a lot of injuries, we also have one of the biggest and most expensive squads in the league. We were horrible for a lot of H2 last season when most players are fit. Word from OT was that there was unhappiness with intensity of preseason and lack of rotation last season which both contributed to injuries. You watch Brighton and they play the sort of football we can only dream of. Sure they don't win all the time but look a properly coached and brave team. We didn't look that good against Wigan for a team crammed full of internationals. And how many of those players out actually make us materially better?

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I think the injuries is a bit misleading as well as if you take CB where we've been most hit, I wouldn't say many of our issues come from them, generally I think the CBs have been ok (don't think we can say Evans for example has done much wrong). I think you can say the same for the defenders, GK aside in general.

I feel we've largely suffered because 1. We have seemingly tactically set up in such a way that leaves us very open to counter attacks and people running through all the space in midfield (as well as making it harder to control games), 2. Onana errors, 3. The attack being v.poor both from a creativity and finishing perspective.

I don't think much of this is down to injuries. Perhaps on the first point, if we'd been able to paid Casemiro and Mainoo things might look different although I don't think that would impact the issues in attack as neither are particularly creative and I'm not convinced ETH wouldn't still try an shoehorn McT in because he brings some goal threat.

Every great side is built from the back. When pep joined city the first thing he did was to buy 4 full backs.

We bought a new keeper who has never once been able to play with a consistent defence on front of him. That alone unsettles the keeper and defence , but part of the reason he was signed was to help us play out from the back which has been ruined due to injuries.

Central midfield has also been decimated. Mainoo was injured for months, ericson and Casemeiro equally, all of whom would be ahead of McT and Amrabat.

Our striker joined injured and should not be relied upon ,given age and first season in league. I’m guessing Greenwood was targeted as our other striker but that was taken from ETH weeks before start of season so he’s left with Martial.

So it’s not simply “injuries don’t explain it”, there’s alot more to it. Even shaw being in and out has been a pox. And now it’s gonna take some players weeks to get to full fitness but every other week players are in and out of the team.

Maguire plays superb , gets injured. Hoijland scores, misses next game to injury. There’s no ability to build momentum or consistency. Regardless of tactics , this would make any team struggle. I think this is a massive reason why the players haven’t turned on ETH, they are short in confidence and a bit demoralised because of circumstances, many of which are out of theirs and the managers control.

 

[Ash_G]

Every great side is built from the back. When pep joined city the first thing he did was to buy 4 full backs.

We bought a new keeper who has never once been able to play with a consistent defence on front of him. That alone unsettles the keeper and defence , but part of the reason he was signed was to help us play out from the back which has been ruined due to injuries.

Central midfield has also been decimated. Mainoo was injured for months, ericson and Casemeiro equally, all of whom would be ahead of McT and Amrabat.

Our striker joined injured and should not be relied upon ,given age and first season in league. I’m guessing Greenwood was targeted as our other striker but that was taken from ETH weeks before start of season so he’s left with Martial.

So it’s not simply “injuries don’t explain it”, there’s alot more to it. Even shaw being in and out has been a pox. And now it’s gonna take some players weeks to get to full fitness but every other week players are in and out of the team.

Maguire plays superb , gets injured. Hoijland scores, misses next game to injury. There’s no ability to build momentum or consistency. Regardless of tactics , this would make any team struggle.

I agree in general and with most things this isn't black and white but I also don't think there are more issues in how we're playing, particularly when we're on the ball that won't be fixed from any particular injured player coming back from injury. We've played close to full strength teams this season and the issues we've seen have been present then as well. I'm willing to give ETH a bit more time but if he isn't personally questioning some of his decisions, what they're doing in training etc then I suspect things are still going to be pretty poor once we get more faces back.

 

[VP89]

Sure we have had a lot of injuries, we also have one of the biggest and most expensive squads in the league. We were horrible for a lot of H2 last season when most players are fit. Word from OT was that there was unhappiness with intensity of preseason and lack of rotation last season which both contributed to injuries. You watch Brighton and they play the sort of football we can only dream of. Sure they don't win all the time but look a properly coached and brave team. We didn't look that good against Wigan for a team crammed full of internationals. And how many of those players out actually make us materially better?

Not many players can step in for key ones missing I agree. But that's a different debate and a recruitment issue. Well it's not even a debate, we know the recruitment is wank. Been that way for 10 years.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Sure we have had a lot of injuries, we also have one of the biggest and most expensive squads in the league. We were horrible for a lot of H2 last season when most players are fit. Word from OT was that there was unhappiness with intensity of preseason and lack of rotation last season which both contributed to injuries. You watch Brighton and they play the sort of football we can only dream of. Sure they don't win all the time but look a properly coached and brave team. We didn't look that good against Wigan for a team crammed full of internationals. And how many of those players out actually make us materially better?

Brighton played 46 games last season , United played 62. Couple that with the extra exhaustion of a World Cup and that’s gonna hit our starting players much more. Considering our strongest central midfield is prob Casemero and Ericson , I’d say a younger squad like Brighton finds it easier to recover , especially with less games and Far less pressure.

Money spent means nothing when it’s wasted like United have done with every manager. Pep can change out his entire team and have a really strong alternative, United managers have never had this because we are sh.8t at transfers , so let’s not pretend United managers have a conveyor belt of quality alternative players to choose from.

Most Brighton players would fail at United because the expectations and pressure is a different level. Same with most managers who people want to join because you don’t seem to grasp that the different pressures are unreal. If a Brighton player has a bad game, worst is he prob gets dropped, at United you get picked apart and reminded for months.

Comparing even spurs is a joke. Look at league winning teams whose form collapses the next season. Everything isn’t always down to a coach, quite often it’s numerous things , but managers take all the flack , probably because it’s the simplest way of trying to understand how things can go wrong and fans of the sport are fickle and not really interested in trying to factor in all elements of a club issue.

 

[Pronewbie]

It actually isn't unprecedented at all. I feel like on here far too many people only see things through a united spectrum which is understandable but when sweeping analysis/statements are made i think its important to look at the overall picture. In this case this isn't unprecedented because 3/4 of the league are suffering the exact same injury crisis. I guess that in itself is unprecedented that so many teams have so many injuries.

You should be more specific instead of resorting to sweeping statements as you said. Let me help.

The link below details the quantity and not the quality/importance of players lost:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ield-united-chelsea-and-man-utd-suffered-most

Aside from maybe Newcastle, who are also having a dreadful season, I'd say we've lost more important players (esp. Shaw, Casemiro and Martinez for long periods). So yes, the short end of the unprecedented stick. I recall Spurs collapsing last season after they lost Bentancur without an adequate replacement. Casemiro is the same for us especially when Mainoo was also out.

 

[KevinJoh]

Injuries are certainly a problem, but bigger problem is that players don't understand what to do on the field. You can have injuries, but good coach will manage even the worst players in the team to play his system in 2 years. TH is working with most of those lads for almost two years, and they are moving on the pitch like they are thinking all the time where should they be at the moment. Nothing in their instinct, nothing that suggest that they are drilled to make runs or passes. Looks like they are every time they have ball or pass, they are thinking what should they do next, trying to remember and than slowly try to go to that position. It reminds me of LVG football, but with less quality and more players in front of the ball but without any idea why are they in those positions.

 

[Rista]

If injuries are the cause of all problems then how come we played the exact same way and served the exact same shite when most of the players were fit? Casemiro for instance was terrible and people wanted him benched. Besides, it's mostly defenders who we've missed and our squad depth in defence is fairly good and the amount of goals conceded is literally the only statistic where we look alright still. Injuries are a factor but definitely not the cause of issues. Anybody who thinks we've been this bad due to injuries is kidding themselves.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I agree in general and with most things this isn't black and white but I also don't think there are more issues in how we're playing, particularly when we're on the ball that won't be fixed from any particular injured player coming back from injury. We've played close to full strength teams this season and the issues we've seen have been present then as well. I'm willing to give ETH a bit more time but if he isn't personally questioning some of his decisions, what they're doing in training etc then I suspect things are still going to be pretty poor once we get more faces back.

I think it’s very reasonable to have doubts about ETH. Some people are vehemently against him which is fine.

My concern is that’s it really isn’t that straight forward a situation at United this season when you factor in EVERYTHING. None of it absolves ETH entirely, but it’s fair to suggest that he’s been up against it in many different areas in ways that haven’t been his fault.

People saying “that shouldn’t stop him coaching” act as though these issues are seperate which is false. The issues affect the team , the confidence , the formation, the tactics and the lack of consistency. They are all connected , but people select snippets from other clubs as if it’s a direct comparison ruling out every other thing going on at United and ignoring the unique circus and pressure that comes at United.

 

[Ludens the Red]

You should be more specific instead of resorting to sweeping statements as you said. Let me help.

The link below details the quantity and not the quality/importance of players lost:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ield-united-chelsea-and-man-utd-suffered-most

Aside from maybe Newcastle, who are also having a dreadful season, I'd say we've lost more important players (esp. Shaw, Casemiro and Martinez for long periods). So yes, the short end of the unprecedented stick. I recall Spurs collapsing last season after they lost Bentancur without an adequate replacement. Casemiro is the same for us especially when Mainoo was also out.

So i say United having injuries isnt unprecedented because lots of other teams this season are having injuries. I then go on to say that in itself is what is unprecedented.

You then go on to post a link showing several other clubs have suffered severe injuries this season.

I'm confused as to your tone....

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

If injuries are the cause of all problems then how come we played the exact same way and served the exact same shite when most of the players were fit? Casemiro for instance was terrible and people wanted him benched. Besides, it's mostly defenders who we've missed and our squad depth in defence is fairly good and the amount of goals conceded is literally the only statistic where we look alright still. Injuries are a factor but definitely not the cause of issues. Anybody who thinks we've been this bad due to injuries is kidding themselves.

Why did Liverpool start last season so poorly? The reason given was the gruelling season before it playing 63 games.

We played 62 games last season and had a World Cup squeezed in between for good measure.

Do you not think there’s a reasonable chance our first team squad has just been exhausted like pools last season?

 

[Sarni]

I don't need to outbid anyone. United having worse hit injuries than spurs over a longer time isn't even a debate. It's an objective fact.

It is if you are a manager cultist and your only purpose is to give him excuses. Otherwise it's very comparable.

 

[Sarni]

It's amazing you get unironically accused of "clutching at straws" to defend the manager in the same post it's suggested that it's Ten Hag's fault that Sancho basically committed gross insubordination publically.

I won't go into details of that whole incident, I don't have much love for either ETH or Sancho in this one or in general, however putting Sancho on unavailable list as someone whose absence has had impact on our fortunes this year is a bit of a stretch.

 

[bond19821982]

Up until Brighton game the only long term absentee was Shaw. Martinez went off after than, Casemiro kept playing until Brentford.

Not true actually but even if we go by that, that's total 5 matches? That's all you are willing to give a new tactics time ? A mere total of 5 matches ? There lies the problem. Our fans are way too impatient. We need quick results and quick fixes.

Even out of that 5 , we played quite well against Spurs and Arsenal.

 

[Sarni]

I think the injuries is a bit misleading as well as if you take CB where we've been most hit, I wouldn't say many of our issues come from them, generally I think the CBs have been ok (don't think we can say Evans for example has done much wrong). I think you can say the same for the defenders, GK aside in general.

I feel we've largely suffered because 1. We have seemingly tactically set up in such a way that leaves us very open to counter attacks and people running through all the space in midfield (as well as making it harder to control games), 2. Onana errors, 3. The attack being v.poor both from a creativity and finishing perspective.

I don't think much of this is down to injuries. Perhaps on the first point, if we'd been able to paid Casemiro and Mainoo things might look different although I don't think that would impact the issues in attack as neither are particularly creative and I'm not convinced ETH wouldn't still try an shoehorn McT in because he brings some goal threat.

Well that's another thing, our defense has actually been largely OK this season. I'm not sure we'd have conceded much fewer goals with Martinez if at all.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I agree in general and with most things this isn't black and white but I also don't think there are more issues in how we're playing, particularly when we're on the ball that won't be fixed from any particular injured player coming back from injury. We've played close to full strength teams this season and the issues we've seen have been present then as well. I'm willing to give ETH a bit more time but if he isn't personally questioning some of his decisions, what they're doing in training etc then I suspect things are still going to be pretty poor once we get more faces back.

Think of it in a micro level. Sometimes, when United lost games , Ferguson wound revert to a more defensive tactic to make sure we were tighter at the back and recovered quickly with the next result.

We just don’t have that luxury this season. It’s been mostly fire fighting and squeezing players here there and everywhere.

Klopp is managing at Pool for years , works with a competent football structure that’s helped him get the players he needs to play his style of football.Even when hes injuries , he hasn’t all the baggage of mish mash squad to deal with.

For all the “ETH got who he wanted” statements, he really didn’t. Casemero instead of FDJ , Houjland instead of Kane. That is two massive players who could make a huge difference to our starting team. You could run through loan players like weghorst and Reguollon and see that’s all he was offered, not necessarily what he wanted.

Not just that , these players were needed way more than any Man United manager should need them. This is squad management issues that have been a pox for a decade, that’s a club issue , not a manager issue.

Again, i get why people want ETH gone but I think there’s so much dysfunction at the club, coupled with multiple other issues, that it’s unrealistic to expect much more then we have gotten.

 

[Pronewbie]

So i say United having injuries isnt unprecedented because lots of other teams this season are having injuries. I then go on to say that in itself is what is unprecedented.

You then go on to post a link showing several other clubs have suffered severe injuries this season.

I'm confused as to your tone....

The generalisation that United's injury crisis is no different from other clubs is inaccurate. Interestingly, there are likely more injuries last season than there will be this season..

Meanwhile, United are up there amongst the worst affected especially among big clubs just on quantity. There's also, among the bigger clubs, a correlation between those affected and their current league standing.

Again, this doesn't absolve from what ETH have been bad at which many on here have already written about.

And I think I read @Sarni mention something about Maddison's lost being important to Spurs. Out of curiosity I had a quick look and yes, there has already been a noticeable drop off in their points tally without him. It simply proves the point of what injuries to key players do.

 

[Pronewbie]

Well that's another thing, our defense has actually been largely OK this season. I'm not sure we'd have conceded much fewer goals with Martinez if at all.

No idea if ETH's tactics for this season would have worked out as the season progressed, but Shaw and Martinez were extremely vital cogs of the build up play. Also very likely why he wanted to sign Pavard / Kim Min Jae to give us an alternative on the right hand side of the pitch.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The generalisation that United's injury crisis is no different from other clubs is inaccurate. Interestingly, there are likely more injuries last season than there will be this season..

Meanwhile, United are up there amongst the worst affected especially among big clubs just on quantity. There's also, among the bigger clubs, a correlation between those affected and their current league standing.

Again, this doesn't absolve from what ETH have been bad at which many on here have already written about.

And I think I read @Sarni mention something about Maddison's lost being important to Spurs. Out of curiosity I had a quick look and yes, there has already been a noticeable drop off in their points tally without him. It simply proves the point of what injuries to key players do.

Well its not inaccurate, the article you quoted shows its not inaccurate . There are several other clubs missing several players. That's a fact. How is it different to the other clubs who have lots of injuries? In the same way if a Brighton or Newcastle fan was to make the same claim.

 

[Smores]

Think of it in a micro level. Sometimes, when United lost games , Ferguson wound revert to a more defensive tactic to make sure we were tighter at the back and recovered quickly with the next result.

We just don’t have that luxury this season. It’s been mostly fire fighting and squeezing players here there and everywhere.

Klopp is managing at Pool for years , works with a competent football structure that’s helped him get the players he needs to play his style of football.Even when hes injuries , he hasn’t all the baggage of mish mash squad to deal with.

For all the “ETH got who he wanted” statements, he really didn’t. Casemero instead of FDJ , Houjland instead of Kane. That is two massive players who could make a huge difference to our starting team. You could run through loan players like weghorst and Reguollon and see that’s all he was offered, not necessarily what he wanted.

Not just that , these players were needed way more than any Man United manager should need them. This is squad management issues that have been a pox for a decade, that’s a club issue , not a manager issue.

Again, i get why people want ETH gone but I think there’s so much dysfunction at the club, coupled with multiple other issues, that it’s unrealistic to expect much more then we have gotten.

Him not getting Kane or FDJ is one hell of a lousy defence for a manager, there isn't a manager out there who didn't want Kane or FDJ. If he can only perform with world class players in each position then he isn't the manager for us because we don't have the cash for that. He's spent a fortune and we're not seeing the benefit of that outlay it's that simple.

 

[VP89]

It is if you are a manager cultist and your only purpose is to give him excuses. Otherwise it's very comparable.

What is wrong with you? I'm not even talking about managers. I've proven you wrong with the period of injuries and the sheer number and you've come out with nonsense like Richarlson's Spurs' only striker, Bentancur is a DM, and both sides have only ever missed a couple key players. That is objective nonsense and its got nothing to do with the manager.

Seriously, you need to stop trying to divide support into two sides, fans like you are the worst, coming out with childish "cultist" name calling when you've been proven wrong in an injury comparison .

 

[VP89]

Well its not inaccurate, the article you quoted shows its not inaccurate . There are several other clubs missing several players. That's a fact. How is it different to the other clubs who have lots of injuries? In the same way if a Brighton or Newcastle fan was to make the same claim.

Yes, they can make a claim. But its not 3/4s of the Premier League is it? That's just blind exaggeration

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Him not getting Kane or FDJ is one hell of a lousy defence for a manager, there isn't a manager out there who didn't want Kane or FDJ. If he can only perform with world class players in each position then he isn't the manager for us because we don't have the cash for that. He's spent a fortune and we're not seeing the benefit of that outlay it's that simple.

I’ve posted a lot more context in this page, it’s not the entire defence. It’s just one of many many structural issues at United, that has been going on for over a decade now and impacts our squads massively. That includes our awful record at sales and offloading players not wanted, every United manager gets stuck with a significant amount of poor players they have to manage.

One or two seasons you can prob get away with it , but we’ve consistently bought poor that ETH is having to navigate.

He’s paying for other sh*t seasons that other managers at other clubs don’t have to worry about.

Everybody accepts we needed “open heart surgery” but nobody seems to think this was going to take time to resolve. “We should be playing decent football “ . Why ? If we need a complete overhaul , why do people compare us to other functioning clubs?

 

[The Hilton]

I won't go into details of that whole incident, I don't have much love for either ETH or Sancho in this one or in general, however putting Sancho on unavailable list as someone whose absence has had impact on our fortunes this year is a bit of a stretch.

This post is reasonable, but your statement in the previous post where you put the blame for Sancho's unavailability on ETH wasn't. Sancho's lack of professionalism is on Sancho. Whether he'd have made a big difference though is definitely debatable I agree.