Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Having a say makes sense. But his current influence should be severely reduced. The transfers of Antony and Mount are just unforgivable.
From Laurie Whitwells article it was suggested the club pushed Mount (Ten Hag agreed obviously)
Ten Hag is a big problem at the club, and removing him doesn't delay the ongoing structural changes at the club. It isn't a continuous cycle and many posters probably including yourself wanted previous managers sacked for a lot less than what Ten Hag has got away with this season.
Right. I take it Moyes would still be here if we had this perfect structure in place? Or literally Aby manager could succeed here? Seeing as you've explicitly stated the managers aren't the problem
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Fair enough, so all manager appointments were poor.
So he could spend another 400m on trash? feck off
The club needs to get rid of Martial, Antony, Onana (I know he's probably not going to be sold), McTominay, Varane, Maguire, Evans, Wan Bissaka, Greenwood. Cancel Amrabat loan too. Presuming as well Sancho and VDB are gone come the summer. Replace Eriksen with someone younger.
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the fact ETH asked for (and got) Onana, Antony, Malacia and Martinez is reason enough for him to be sacked. Not sure what his involvement in signing Hojlund or Mount was either.
Only Martinez (to date) has shown he's been worth it.
It doesn't end there with massively overpaying for players that are frankly marginal at best. I realize this is straying from the thread topic, so I apologize in advance.
I made a quick list the other day and was at something like 500M in spending for decidedly average players. Going from memory on the transfer amounts.
Onana 60M
Antony 80M
Mount 60M
Hojlund 75M
Martinez 60M
Sancho 85M
Casemiro 60M
475M
Going back futher:
Maguire: 80M
Lindelof: 35M
Varane 35M
Fred 50M
AWB 45M
There's 720M right there
Add in the Ronaldo/Pogback disasters, Bailly....I'm forgetting some others..you can easily get to a BILLION in transfer fees alone
Of those signings, who makes a "world's best 11"?
Who even makes a "world's best 44"?
That's not even taking into account the moody, temperamental, fragile twats like Martial, Rashford, Lingard (gone), heck even Bruno ffs.
Only Martinez (to date) has shown he's been worth it.
It doesn't end there with massively overpaying for players that are frankly marginal at best. I realize this is straying from the thread topic, so I apologize in advance.
I made a quick list the other day and was at something like 500M in spending for decidedly average players. Going from memory on the transfer amounts.
Onana 60M
Antony 80M
Mount 60M
Hojlund 75M
Martinez 60M
Sancho 85M
Casemiro 60M
475M
Going back futher:
Maguire: 80M
Lindelof: 35M
Varane 35M
Fred 50M
AWB 45M
There's 720M right there
Add in the Ronaldo/Pogback disasters, Bailly....I'm forgetting some others..you can easily get to a BILLION in transfer fees alone
Of those signings, who makes a "world's best 11"?
Who even makes a "world's best 44"?
That's not even taking into account the moody, temperamental, fragile twats like Martial, Rashford, Lingard (gone), heck even Bruno ffs.
You can get fecked Erik. This gives Ineos a good excuse to get rid though.
No thank you, hes made more signings than good if we give him the benefit of doubt on Casemiro considering a lot here didn't think he was worth the money.
Good buys: Martinez and Casemiro
Bad buys: Mount, Antony and Onana
OK buys: Erikson and Malacia
Sack him right away rather than give him anymore solo control on signings!
And also, that "assistant coach" should be the only one allowed to talk to players because ETH may cause further fights that do not help the team at all.
ETH might be world-class in something, but I don't see what this "something" might be.
When was the last time Martinez had a great game?
Good point, we have already been told by his cultists that it’s not his job to motivate and man manage players so we should probably get someone to handle that as well.
The funniest thing is when posters start blaming random first-team coaches for all our problems. Not scoring enough goals? Sack Benni McCarthy! Set piece tactics are shit? Sack the set piece coach!
Christ on a bike, I genuinely completely forgot about Malacia. Where is he hiding?
Also Erik can feck off. Bring in a proper DOF to drive the recruitment and get in someone who has a clue as manager.
I can't believe I'm saying this but at this point in time I'd rather have David Moyes back than see Erik overseeing another encounter.
Jesus, he was outstanding and rock solid last season bar the 7-0 trashing! He has been alot better than any center back we have bought in the past decade! (Won't even counter Varane as he's made of glass)
He's been injured this season unfortunately but please don't have a short memory on him!
Funny thing is i have never read the set piece coach's name in the posts. Anybody knows the feck he is
haha, I mean I’ve read that now. But not sure what it has to do with what I’ve asked but that’s okay. Because everytime I put those questions out about ten hag with that narrative, the person responding never actually answers.
Funny thing is i have never read the set piece coach's name in the posts. Anybody knows the feck he is
Eric Ramsay. He has his own thread.
When you believe that ETH is on par with Klopp and Guardiola you have to blame someone for our absymal football.
Sack the fecker
Since the beginning of last season, Martinez played 51 matches for us, while Varane played 50. Varane missed a few cause EtH in his infinite wisdom, decided that he cannot play CB or Maguire/Evans is better, while Martinez played when he was fit.
So at the time both of them were here, Varane who is made of glass was more available than Martinez, whom I guess is not made of glass.
Are you suggesting Martinez is more injury prone than Varane because he has missed more games?
His signings strike me as someone who still thinks he's shopping for the Eredivisie.
Onana, Amrabat, Weghorst, Sabitzer, Antony, Malacia, Højlund (at this stage of his career) and Mount are all players I can see performing well in the Dutch league, who then make fail to make the step up consistently at better clubs. Maybe harsh on Mount but the rest definitely.
Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro are the exceptions, although two of them already showed they could cut it at the top level.
He should have zero input into who we bring in moving forward, he's shown very clear he does not have an eye for talent. If he demands this veto he can feck off.
Onana, Amrabat, Weghorst, Sabitzer, Antony, Malacia, Højlund (at this stage of his career) and Mount are all players I can see performing well in the Dutch league, who then make fail to make the step up consistently at better clubs. Maybe harsh on Mount but the rest definitely.
Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro are the exceptions, although two of them already showed they could cut it at the top level.
He should have zero input into who we bring in moving forward, he's shown very clear he does not have an eye for talent. If he demands this veto he can feck off.
No idea. In the last 5 seasons (not including this one) Martinez has averaged 25 league games per season, while Varane 28 league games per season. In total, Martinez has averaged 40 club matches per season, while Varane has averaged 37 club matches per season. However, Varane also played around 40 matches per France (Lisandro just 12 for Argentina albeit mostly cause he was not selected for more).
There doesn't seem to be much difference in their availability in the last 5 years or since both play at United.
Except there is a fair counter point to this.
When Rashford went on his rich vein of form last season scoring against shite teams happy with mid table everybody was riding Benni McCarthy like he was the second coming. Yet now the entire attack is shite its the first team coach, so what is it?
It was the same when Carrick and McKenna took over from Rui Faria under Mourinho, the commentators were consistently criticising a lack of attacking patterns, then we got Ole in, the attacking patterns didn't improve but it was Ole and Mourinho that took the fall.
Prior to his appointment to the first team McKenna was highly praised for the way he set up his attacks and he seems to be doing similar at Ipswich, but yet couldn't get a tune out of the same attacking players Ten Hag now uses minus Antony and Hojlund.
It's more that Varane being 'made of glass' is a bit of an exaggeration.
The Athletic article proves that your first paragraph is full of false claims. He hasn't been given a fair chance. You don't know whether he thought Antony was the best option for the right wing or not.
I also never said that no one would have us better than 8th and out of the CL group stage. But with this group of players, taking our current injury situation into consideration and how we've been robbed by the referees in several games this season, I don't think anyone would have us comfortably in top 4 whilst also playing attractive football on the pitch.
The article proves my first paragraph is full of false claims? How about you actually use your brain and eyes to ascertain how it certainly isn’t.
Has Ten Hag been allowed to spend hundreds of million pounds on players he wanted? Yes
Has Ten Hag been allowed to get rid of huge money assets to build his squad? Yes Ronaldo and Sancho.
I’m not sure exactly what was supposed to be put in place for Ten Hag to be given a “fair shot”. It can be argued all day the toss about how much power the glazers give managers to succeed but from a lot of info released it appears ten hag wants to have a huge say on the squad recruitment and has had so. Therefore he must take partial responsibility when it goes wrong regardless of how stupid the glazers were to allow it to happen. Hopefully if he does stay he has zero say on who joins the club from here going but I doubt we’ll get to that point as he’ll be sacked once we fall into the bottom half in the next month or so.
Second bolded, you’re just sounding like Ten Hag now. Excuses, nonsense etc. injuries are ravaging several other Pl clubs. In particular Brighton and Spurs who somehow with supposedly inferior managers and almost certainly a smaller budget are currently ahead of us in the table and playing significantly better attacking football having lost massive players to other clubs in the summer. So yeah that’s a nonsense too.
So I looked back on transfermarket, since 17/18 till he came to United, he missed with injury 1 game in 20/21 and 8 games in 21/22. League games.
Fracturing fifth metatarsal is obviously an unfortunate contact injury.
Whoa… the cult of Erik Ten Hag has really taken it up a notch. Blame everyone but Erik. Blame injuries. Blame the Glazers. Blame the players who clearly can’t execute the genius’ brilliant tactics. Blame the horrible recruitment team, the scouting team, the tea lady.
Dang, you’re right. Let’s absolve the coach of any responsibility for results whatsoever. £9m a year to basically watch a dumpster fire, casually adding more wood to ensure it stays strong and bright.
Dang, you’re right. Let’s absolve the coach of any responsibility for results whatsoever. £9m a year to basically watch a dumpster fire, casually adding more wood to ensure it stays strong and bright.
I think my main point is that Varane has been playing around 40 matches per club and 10 per country (he has been retired for a year though), so someone playing 50 matches per year is hardly made of glass. People talk for him like he is a Phil Jones when it comes to injuries, but he is actually quite available.
United seem to make players injury prone, and EPL is very physical, so not surprised to see him getting injured in both last season and this one.
They also blame the fans for being so negative apparently. We should be blind optimists and support the manager regardless of the results and form.
Its insane. The Athletic article was pretty damning as to the state of football management, but people seem to want to pretend its some kind of crazy coincidence that 80% of our signings played for or against ETH in the mightly Dutch league. That ETH was not desperate to sign Antony (of all the players he might have got from Ajax, I remember at the time a few ex Ajax people suggesting he had gone for the wrong forward). that he did not know the cost of £80m plus until Antony arrived at Carrington. That having spent such ludicrous money on Antony our budget would be seriously impacted. As if he's too dumb to realise all that then its just another reason he should go. Its seriuosly embarrassing the love in for a fraud. HE comes out after woeful performances and clains we played well. He's certainly lowered expectations for some of the muppets on here. He won a tin pot cup in a competition where most of the Premier league put out their reserves and youth team. We have made ZERO progress, his high press or turnovers or whatever is a farce. Watch a well coached team like Brighton and see them playing football we can only dream of.
I guess I’m surprised that people are willing to ignore his inability to install patterns of play, stubbornly stick to a single pivot, and fail to get good performances from player who have performed in the past (Rashford, Bruno). Yeah, the club is a shitshow, but there can be multiple factors for failure. The club can be shit and Erik can simultaneously not be good enough.
There is no nuance these days. You’d think that the internet would allow for a proliferation of balanced, well reasoned views, but actually it’s the opposite. It pushes people to support extremes despite facts that are plain to see. Yeah, I guess the earth is flat…
Not listening to Rangnick was criminal,the guy had been here for a few months and in that short period saw how much needed changing.
As an Ajax fan I admire Ten Hag, but I feel its better for everyone if he leaves.
The transfers made I find difficult to judge. I do feel the solution isn`t going for cases where the risk/reward is way of balance. To a certain extend, as an Ajax fan I expected Martinez to succeed at United, it made sense, seeing how he performed at Ajax, his consistency against opponents on any level. However. Antony seems a different story. I was never sure about that, Ionly understood itbased on his mentality. Imo United needed more players with determination and "grit."
Other then that, I think there were panic buys, because the players that would have actually boosted United significantly (and would have fitted in perfectly with Ten Hags football ideology) like Frenkie de Jong, weren`t interested.
It will be difficult to change, getting the worlds elite players to United, because those players will have better options, where they would inmediately be at a sorted, succesful club. You are not going to get the Haaland`s or Mbappe`s.
Last year Man United kinda profited of a miracle season of Rashford and luck in the fitness department. I think Ten Hag overestimated how much he could influence the dressing room mentality. I can`t see any trainer succeeding at Utd without completely rebuilding the squad, and that will be a massive undertaking, because you won`t inmediately get the players who can bring you leaps forward.
But this is a mismarriage. ten Hag should find a new club, probably in Germany, and Utd should look for a manager with the backing of the board, fans and the few players of the dressing room who are worthy of Utd.
Sad reality is that this sounds exactly the same as when Ten Hag stepped in. Who would have thought after that first year that history would repeat itself. Its important to pinpoint why that is, so Man Utd won`t just keep going through the same motions. United need to fight to get back to the top of the foodchain again, but that will be tough. I don`t think Man Utd fans are patient enough, which is understandable but destructive.
The transfers made I find difficult to judge. I do feel the solution isn`t going for cases where the risk/reward is way of balance. To a certain extend, as an Ajax fan I expected Martinez to succeed at United, it made sense, seeing how he performed at Ajax, his consistency against opponents on any level. However. Antony seems a different story. I was never sure about that, Ionly understood itbased on his mentality. Imo United needed more players with determination and "grit."
Other then that, I think there were panic buys, because the players that would have actually boosted United significantly (and would have fitted in perfectly with Ten Hags football ideology) like Frenkie de Jong, weren`t interested.
It will be difficult to change, getting the worlds elite players to United, because those players will have better options, where they would inmediately be at a sorted, succesful club. You are not going to get the Haaland`s or Mbappe`s.
Last year Man United kinda profited of a miracle season of Rashford and luck in the fitness department. I think Ten Hag overestimated how much he could influence the dressing room mentality. I can`t see any trainer succeeding at Utd without completely rebuilding the squad, and that will be a massive undertaking, because you won`t inmediately get the players who can bring you leaps forward.
But this is a mismarriage. ten Hag should find a new club, probably in Germany, and Utd should look for a manager with the backing of the board, fans and the few players of the dressing room who are worthy of Utd.
Sad reality is that this sounds exactly the same as when Ten Hag stepped in. Who would have thought after that first year that history would repeat itself. Its important to pinpoint why that is, so Man Utd won`t just keep going through the same motions. United need to fight to get back to the top of the foodchain again, but that will be tough. I don`t think Man Utd fans are patient enough, which is understandable but destructive.
And it was equally ridiculous then
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