Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Jeffthered]

You are just adding irrelevant context to avoid the main point, though. A team in its prime, that was probably the best team in the world, with loads of success in the previous seasons and one of the best managers in the world, fell apart with the sort of injuries we've had.

We are a team in transition, with a new manager and plenty of deadwood and new signings not living up to their price tag, how could you expect us to cope anywhere close to how Liverpool did when the same thing happened to their team?

Liverpool still had one of the best forwards in PL history and a raft of other good players, hot off huge success when this happened to them, the majority of our existing players are either shite or have experienced the mental trauma of being a Utd player for the past 5/6 years

I'm not trying to say Ten Hag isn't to blame for anything, but people trying to brush aside this 'excuse' like it means nothing are living in a dream land.

Please tell me when Liverpool have 'fallen apart' over the last few seasons. Dropping points / losing eight matches? Not so long ago Liverpool were going for a possible treble. Liverpool have been excellent over the last few seasons, that's without dispute. How on Earth can you compare their situation to ours? The points in bold show your inconsistency, squad's are built over a period of time, to respond to injuries. I suppose Sheff Utd(according to your metric..) have one of the worst injury lists, because they're bottom of the league?

Injuries affect all teams. However, managers are also assessed on how well they cope with injuries. You need access to a better, more resilient squad, and good coaching. Look at Spurs and how they have handled Richarlison. People are now questioning the decisions made by Eddie Howe, as his team are running on empty. It's making a difference, but couldn't he consilidate, tactically, until they get some bodies back? That's a fair question. Injuries are not simply some 'luck of the draw'. Citeh with Halaand, KDB out is a case in point. Injuries affect teams, but they should not define teams. Listen to ETH, and you would think that our whole season, and performance levels are down to injuries, and that's just crap talk.

 

[Matt Varnish]

We've had our full strength attack available for large parts of this season, and still only scored 22 in 20. What conclusive proof are you looking for exactly? Are you expecting Martinez and Mount to start scoring and assisting for fun?

There are fundamental issues with the entire setup of the team that have sod all to do with injuries

Source for this BS, or is it another one of your made up on the spot "facts"
Or maybe you've been on the moon since August, United have had an ongoing injury list of 11 players for literally the whole of the season.

 

[Sarni]

Source for this BS, or is it another one of your made up on the spot "facts"
Or maybe you've been on the moon since August, United have had an ongoing injury list of 11 players for literally the whole of the season.

Not in our attack. Most of our midfielders and forwards have been available all season with only short knocks for Rashford and Hojlund, and an extended break for Mount which I’m not even sure weakens us at all. Casemiro is the only one that has really hurt us but we were appalling when he was playing as well.

 

[Shark]

Source for this BS, or is it another one of your made up on the spot "facts"
Or maybe you've been on the moon since August, United have had an ongoing injury list of 11 players for literally the whole of the season.

He's talking about our attack though, which the injury crisis hasn't really spread to as much as other areas. Rashford, Bruno, Antony, Garnacho and Hojilund have been mainly available. Sancho obviously has been excluded and Martial is Martial.

 

[Matt Varnish]

He's talking about our attack though, which the injury crisis hasn't really spread to as much as other areas. Rashford, Bruno, Antony, Garnacho and Hojilund have been mainly available. Sancho obviously has been excluded and Martial is Martial.

I can't find up to date info on it, it's all historical, I do know Rashford wasn't available for Fulham, supposed injury, and Antony has been out at times. So I'm not convinced.
In any case how so you define an "Attacker" we lost Shaw for the best part of two months, and again now, he gives/gave us much needed width and another option.

 

[Teja]

Ofcourse and that goes without saying. Don't you see an improvement in our buildup phase ? I see that clearly . Teams don't press us high these days and if they do, we will play right through it. Having a fully fit Licha and Martinez would make a huge difference.

I am optimistic about our style once we have the players back.

Do we though? If we pressed well and built up well, the rest of the problems can be solved by some good squad building. A better coach won't really change much. But I disagree that we press / build-up well.

The build-up has definitely been improving against the lesser sides. Any top side (recent Bayern game was a good candidate) can easily nullify our press / build-up. It's a case where the canned build-up / press (two sides of the same coin) works a little while but when the opposition finds a solution to whatever pressing scheme Ten Hag cooked up for the day, they're not smart enough to adapt on the pitch. Sometimes Ten Hag simply gets outsmarted to start with but that happens to even Pep / Klopp. The difference is that their sides can understand what's going wrong with the coach's instructions and fix without having to wait for a break.

 

[FrantikChicken]

Source for this BS, or is it another one of your made up on the spot "facts"
Or maybe you've been on the moon since August, United have had an ongoing injury list of 11 players for literally the whole of the season.

Ten Hag has had his preferred forward line available for most of the season: Rashford was his top scorer last season, Bruno is his captain, Antony and Hojlund are 2 players he bought for a lot of money. We’re literally one of the worst teams in the league at scoring goals. Please don’t tell me that’s because Martinez is injured.

I understand losing games and dropping points because there are injuries in the team, but the fact that we couldn’t even muster a single shot in the first half against Forest has nothing to do with that.

 

[Rista]

No Forest haven't got a better side but that's not how football always works. You don't automatically win games because on paper your team is 10% better.

When there isn't a sizeable gap between the teams anything can happen in football. That's how it is.

The problem is fans still believing thes players are better than what they are.

In Rashford and Antony we had two players on the pitch whose performances belong in relegation fighting teams. A 19 year old winger, an 18 year old CM, a 37 year old CB. A right back that can't pass further than 20 yard.

We can debate who is that down to but once the whistle goes that United team on the pitch isn't miles ahead of the Forest team.

How about the other weaker teams that we've lost to, or even that we beat extremely unconvincingly? "Anything can happen" and yet somehow just keeps happening to us. It just sounds like excuses to me.

Do the fans believe the players are better than they are or are we not getting out of them as much as we should, making the players seem worse than they are?

3rd, 2nd, 6th, 3rd are the last league finishes. Are you telling me we've spent 400 million and there isn't a sizeable gap in quality vs the likes of Forest? If that's the case, anybody even remotely responsible for transfers should be sacked on the spot.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I will have the last laugh you scoundrel.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Fair point but the entire fam base wouldn’t trust his transfer suggestions or his valuations of them.

I don’t really care what Arsenal fans think, doubt Erik does either.

 

[Shark]

Another reason why he simply has to go.

 

[TsuWave]

For some reason I read this and just started laughing manically. This guy is going to send me off the deep end

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Ten Hag is already working under a different structure than previous managers though. There’s a poster in this very same thread that wanted to die on this hill. So, what exactly is the “structure” that people want for Ten Hag to succeed/think that will suddenly make-up for his shortcomings?

When is Ten Hag supposed to be evaluated? He has the structural change(s) that others didn't, he has been backed with funds others weren't.

by the way, I’ll keep referring people to this post whenever they insinuated we’ve sacked too many managers:

Working as a head coach, under a director of football, with a new scouting department who has identified a model of football they want the club to play with from top to bottom, and being given 3 years in that position to do it frankly. Only reason I'd sack him after clearing out the squad and starting again is if he loses the dressing room before that point.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Rista]

Working as a head coach, under a director of football, with a new scouting department who has identified a model of football they want the club to play with from top to bottom, and being given 3 years in that position to do it frankly. Only reason I'd sack him after clearing out the squad and starting again is if he loses the dressing room before that point.

What has he done so far to earn this trust? There is no club in the world that would do this. How do people not realize how insane it is?

 

[Redstain]

Said this exact thing the other day about there being no guarantee of stay if the manager doesn't intend to have his influences revoked in recruitment. Let's see how it pans out it's incomprehensible for the manager to negotiate this position with his superiors so in terms of hierarchy it's a pipe dream for Eth. The DOF should be the one steering the directive with player recruitment.

 

[Remember the geese]

Nope. Simply cannot be allowed.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

What has he done so far to earn this trust? There is no club in the world that would do this. How do people not realize how insane it is?

Nothing. But I am fed up of the merry go round. Its not the manager that is the problem here at this club, and hasn't been for the past 10 years really. Keep changing if you wish, but as I mentioned earlier, I fear all it does is upset and delay more fundamental changes being made to the club structure.

 

[Laurencio]

Said this exact thing the other day about there being no guarantee of stay if the manager doesn't intend to have his influences revoked in recruitment. Let's see how it pans out it's incomprehensible for the manager to negotiate this position with his superiors so in terms of hierarchy it's a pipe dream for Eth. The DOF should be the one steering the directive with player recruitment.

Having a veto is standard, but there clearly will be changes to how his role operates in recruitment. His recruitment has been awful and we have seen nothing on the pitch to suggest he's the second coming.

 

[Rista]

Nothing. But I am fed up of the merry go round. Its not the manager that is the problem here at this club, and hasn't been for the past 10 years really. Keep changing if you wish, but as I mentioned earlier, I fear all it does is upset and delay more fundamental changes being made to the club structure.

Which of the previous managers were good and shouldn't have been sacked? The answer is none. Both things can be true. The club can be badly run and the manager can be wrong fit/out of his depth. Being "fed up" of changing managers is not a serious solution. Clubs change managers, it's the norm.

 

[frostbite]

Of course he does.

And probably he wants to keep using the agency of his own agent, where his son also works. Because they have been so good in the past years! They brought us diamonds like Antony. Cheap, too.

 

[Berbaclass]

Of course he does.

And probably he wants to keep using the agency of his own agent, where his son also works. Because they have been so good in the past years! They brought us diamonds like Antony. Cheap, too.

Antony doesn’t share the same agent as ETH.

The club has done business with that agency for years before Ten Hag, players like Memphis, RVP and Blind.

They are one of the biggest agencies in the Netherlands representing some of the best players so we’re bound to use them sometimes.

 

[Laurencio]

Nothing. But I am fed up of the merry go round. Its not the manager that is the problem here at this club, and hasn't been for the past 10 years really. Keep changing if you wish, but as I mentioned earlier, I fear all it does is upset and delay more fundamental changes being made to the club structure.

Moyes - Bad fit, not big enough for the job, wanted to take the club in another direction.
LVG - Past it at the very top level, an international manager who wasn't up for the PL level
Mourinho - N/A, sabotaged his last year
Ole - Interim who wasn't ready for the job and not elite
Rangnick - Nonsense appointment. A sporting director who was a semi-decent manager a decade ago
Ten Hag - Remains to be seen, but early evidence suggest he isn't up to managing the level of players or tactical opposition in the league.

We've had exactly 1 top class manager in that decade, and he chose to sabotage his last season because he couldn't deal with the Glazernomics any longer.

There is plenty wrong with the club above the manager, but to say our managerial recruitment has been good would be a gross exaggeration.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Since you’re going around quoting old posts @Rojofiam How is this post from May 2023 working out for you?

Nagelsmann, Pocchetino, Zidane, Luis Enrique, Potter at the top of my head. Probably Ancelotti if Madrid do not win UCL.

So yeah, there are always good managers around. Big clubs usually hire of them if they have a disaster season (which this will be if we do not get fourth). And while I am disappointed with how this season has gone, I would be happy to continue with ten Hag for another season providing we get fourth (and manage to not lose by more than 3-4 goals in the final).

Ten Hag is significantly better than all of those managers you listed. Come back to this post in 12 months' time and you'll see I was spot on.

9 months later … how’s this working out?

 

[Rojofiam]

Since you’re going around quoting old posts @Rojofiam How is this post from May 2023 working out for you?



9 months later … how’s this working out?

I stand by what I said except for Enrique. He's impressed me since then with how PSG plays and yes, even in my eyes ETH's stock has gone down a bit, because I don't agree with a lot of stuff he's done this season.

Nagelsmann, Pochettino and Potter don't move me at all. None of them has shown anything that they would do any better at rebuilding Manchester United than what Ole or ten Hag has managed to do.

Ancelotti and Zidane would also fail spectacularly here. Managing Madrid is totally different than trying to rebuild this circus we have at United.

To be honest, probably even Pep, Klopp or Arteta would struggle at United.

 

[frostbite]

Antony doesn’t share the same agent as ETH.

The club has done business with that agency for years before Ten Hag, players like Memphis, RVP and Blind.

They are one of the biggest agencies in the Netherlands representing some of the best players so we’re bound to use them sometimes.

Of course. And we should only blame the "structure" for the useless players that ETH wants to buy. The "structure" should only agree for the good players and reject the mediocre players.

And of course, the "structure" should also help ETH with in-game management. Because he is not really good with that either.

If the "structure" also helps with man-management and tactics... we are going to win the treble. Because ETH is great with setting up the cones!

 

[Ludens the Red]

The mentalist

 

[Rojofiam]

Moyes - Bad fit, not big enough for the job, wanted to take the club in another direction.
LVG - Past it at the very top level, an international manager who wasn't up for the PL level
Mourinho - N/A, sabotaged his last year
Ole - Interim who wasn't ready for the job and not elite
Rangnick - Nonsense appointment. A sporting director who was a semi-decent manager a decade ago
Ten Hag - Remains to be seen, but early evidence suggest he isn't up to managing the level of players or tactical opposition in the league.

We've had exactly 1 top class manager in that decade, and he chose to sabotage his last season because he couldn't deal with the Glazernomics any longer.

There is plenty wrong with the club above the manager, but to say our managerial recruitment has been good would be a gross exaggeration.

By the time Mourinho came here, he was already waaay "past it at the top level", just like how you described LvG. Calling him a "top class manager" is ridiculous 8 years after his last relevant achievement (PL with Chelsea).

 

[bosnian_red]

Some people just can't see when they are not good at something...

 

[Buster15]

Influence is one thing.
But judging by his pretty awful record on transfers, this is certainly something that needs to be looked into by the new football administration. Must be some significant marginal gains to be made there

 

[Teja]

ETH is trying to move us to a single DM setup which is important if we want to take the next step as a team and it looks like it will cost him his job. We need to commit to the change even if he is sacked, otherwise we continue treading water.

The single pivot thing is a weak defence for him. When was the time we really blew a team away through our attacking prowess? Even Ole had a few great games against the likes of Southampton, Leeds etc. There are still many flaws in our build up, counter pressing, attacking, rest defence. That's what will cost him the job, not the single pivot.

I agree that the next guy should build on top of what Ten Hag has done so far. Some positives are in place. I hope we don't do a full 180 and get a guy like Emery in.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I stand by what I said except for Enrique. He's impressed me since then with how PSG plays and yes, even in my eyes ETH's stock has gone down a bit, because I don't agree with a lot of stuff he's done this season.

Nagelsmann, Pochettino and Potter don't move me at all. None of them has shown anything that they would do any better at rebuilding Manchester United than what Ole or ten Hag has managed to do.

Ancelotti and Zidane would also fail spectacularly here. Managing Madrid is totally different than trying to rebuild this circus we have at United.

To be honest, probably even Pep, Klopp or Arteta would struggle at United.

Ten Hag is heading towards being our worse performing manager since Fergie. He’s currently overseeing some of the worse standard of football ever seen at United. United are in the bottom three for worse attacking teams in the league after 20 games of a PL season. He’s been eliminated from Europe. All the while spending 400 million on transfers of which several were players he handpicked. I can tell you what’s going to happen twelve months after your post. He’ll be unemployed!

 

[Rojofiam]

Ten Hag is heading towards being our worse performing manager since Fergie. He’s currently overseeing some of the worse standard of football ever seen at United. United are in the bottom three for worse attacking teams in the league after 20 games of a PL season. He’s been eliminated from Europe. All the while spending 400 million on transfers of which several were players he handpicked. I can tell you what’s going to happen twelve months after your post. He’ll be unemployed!

If Ineos come in and set up a proper football structure that enables a good manager to be successful at Manchester United, and give ten Hag a clean slate under said new structure, then I think he can definitely be successful at a big club like ours. If he's given a fair chance and we don't improve from our current situation, then I'll admit I was wrong. Until then, I'll maintain that he's a good manager who can succeed at a well-run football club, with ambitious, competent people around him whose main objective is to win on the pitch.

 

[Red Dreams]

If Ineos come in and set up a proper football structure that enables a good manager to be successful at Manchester United, and give ten Hag a clean slate under said new structure, then I think he can definitely be successful at a big club like ours. If he's given a fair chance and we don't improve from our current situation, then I'll admit I was wrong. Until then, I'll maintain that he's a good manager who can succeed at a well-run football club, with ambitious, competent people around him whose main objective is to win on the pitch.

I agree.
Since SJR took over the Footballing structure I am less anxious.
A manager having the veto on recruitments is normal.
Now he will not be responsible for transfers.

 

[Sarni]

If Ineos come in and set up a proper football structure that enables a good manager to be successful at Manchester United, and give ten Hag a clean slate under said new structure, then I think he can definitely be successful at a big club like ours. If he's given a fair chance and we don't improve from our current situation, then I'll admit I was wrong. Until then, I'll maintain that he's a good manager who can succeed at a well-run football club, with ambitious, competent people around him whose main objective is to win on the pitch.

Only if that ‘proper footballing structure’ includes an assistant coach that will take over tactics and in-game management leaving ten Hag with virtually no responsibilities. Then he might become good for us, he could essentially be that mythical presence that his fanatics will cherish and applaud while people who are actually competent at coaching and management will do his job.

I would be OK with that, we leave him so that his fans are not left disappointed but not have him do anything.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The single pivot thing is a weak defence for him. When was the time we really blew a team away through our attacking prowess? Even Ole had a few great games against the likes of Southampton, Leeds etc. There are still many flaws in our build up, counter pressing, attacking, rest defence. That's what will cost him the job, not the single pivot.

I agree that the next guy should build on top of what Ten Hag has done so far. Some positives are in place. I hope we don't do a full 180 and get a guy like Emery in.

Feel like you aren't understanding my post or what ETH is trying to do. Moving to the single pivot doesn't mean you suddenly become attacking, it's a very hard setup to work properly even for a team stacked with talent (City lost Rodri and dropped points in all games he was out earlier this season), that is the end goal, but the first priority is to build from the back. Last season ETH realised how bad the situation was and reverted to Ole/Mou style football, we did well, people were happy but the gap between the best and us remained. This season he's essentially been as stubborn as an ox in sticking to the plan to move to the single pivot and another 8 and that is our major issue for me - we are porous through the middle and don't create enough for risk reward of how we attack and how poor we are in front of goal. I want to see the change happen but then I don't see how he ever thought Case/Mount/Bruno was a good idea. There are many issues, some team based, some individual but the common theme this season is our midfield balance has been all over the place. That doesn't really happen with the double pivot (see Pool game) because you are naturally sat in deeper, you are more defensive and immediately the risk is reduced.

 

[TsuWave]

Working as a head coach, under a director of football, with a new scouting department who has identified a model of football they want the club to play with from top to bottom, and being given 3 years in that position to do it frankly. Only reason I'd sack him after clearing out the squad and starting again is if he loses the dressing room before that point.

Ten Hag is already working under a DoF and the scouting departments has recently undergone great upheaval in an effort to modernise it. Ten Hag however seemingly values his influence in transfers as a core condition.

personally, I find it comical that a manager has to be given 3 years carte blanche before being judged. Type of thing only United fans would suggest. Even funnier because the likelihood of him failing is much higher than him succeeding - 3 years no questions asked to the guy that follows, as well?

in terms of the squad - the team he has is pretty much his already when you consider the number of transfers he’s presided over.

 

[Ludens the Red]

If Ineos come in and set up a proper football structure that enables a good manager to be successful at Manchester United, and give ten Hag a clean slate under said new structure, then I think he can definitely be successful at a big club like ours. If he's given a fair chance and we don't improve from our current situation, then I'll admit I was wrong. Until then, I'll maintain that he's a good manager who can succeed at a well-run football club, with ambitious, competent people around him whose main objective is to win on the pitch.

He’s been given a fair chance. He was given freedom to build the team how he saw fit and this is the end result. I’m not sure a good manager puts together this team with those
Kind of finances and has them playing this badly. He thought Antony was the best option for a right winger we could get. I think to make that decision not only are you probably not a good manager but you’re probably a massive idiot as well.
If he was sat in 5th place, with the team playing decent football and still in Europe , this thread would be several hundred pages smaller.

The idea that no manager can do better than 8th place, being out of Europe and having this squad be one of the worse attacking teams in the league is simply a laughable and insulting suggestion.
Ten Hag himself literally proved that not to be the case last season.
If he was good enough to lead this team to 3rd last season and a trophy then he should be good enough to do it again.
He is the predominant cause of the hideousness of this season with his tactical decision making and recruitment. That is on him.