Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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BeepBeepImAJeep said:
Id say it sums up where we are as a club if we’re at the point where we are giving the manager credit after that performance.
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Well obviously, I was thinking a 3-1 defeat would be a good result, 0-0 was fantastic.

We're in a bad place right now for various reasons, so today was a good day.
 
Thought we were very lucky not to concede, and the players deserve most of the credit for defending well.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Seriously though, it’s the result more than the performance that is to be congratulated. Nobody gave us a hope and he found a way to limit the damage and take something from the game.
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Most importantly he tried something different. Give him until the end of the season imo.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I disagree with the bolded bit. Defensively that template should be the bear minimum. There is simply NO reason why we can't be this compact, commited and defensively sound even vs sides we can and should dominate. This season too often we have been laughlably easy to play against. Which is unacceptable.
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Isn't that on the manager and they way he setup up?

I keep asking this cuz I'm obviously a nobody but surely the manager can see this 5-0-5 formation is leaving too much space
 
Today's performance at JuAnfield, as well as the one against Bayern, actually makes me a little annoyed with Ten Hag.

We all knew playing a double pivot, with two actual centre midfielders instead of converted attacking midfielders, world make us more stable. Why didn't he do it at 3-1 up against Galatasaray?

Plenty of stuff he did today could have been done in the weeks previous. Which would have stopped the likes of Bournemouth going through us like week old curry.

Better late than never I suppose.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Well obviously, I was thinking a 3-1 defeat would be a good result, 0-0 was fantastic.

We're in a bad place right now for various reasons, so today was a good day.
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Id say it’s the type of performance / result that Burnley would be happy with under Dyche circa 2018.

That might be about where we are at now in fairness.
 
quadrant said:
I think this it the wrong way of looking at it. I do agree that playing more conservatively would have resulted in better results so far this season. That's how we played for much of last season and it certainly covers up the shortcomings in a few of our players and gives us an extra degree of cover. However I also think the ceiling for that type of football is far lower.

If our aim is to become compete toe to toe with any team in world football - which may seem a long way away this season but surely is the goal - then at some point we need to transition to a more pro-active, attacking and, frankly, risk taking form of football. If that means taking a step backwards before we take a few forwards, then that's fine.

Obviously our problem is that we've taken several steps backwards this season, not just one, which is why I'm not against being more conservative for a while. But I think conservative football won't win us the league again. Its more a question of when we take that step, not whether.
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Yeh all very fair. I would disagree that a 4231 in defence and attack is “defensive” by definition, but there is clearly a reason that a lot of teams are trying to play this “Pep” system .

However, we look terrible playing it. Which can only be because of a few reasons:

1. Too much change too quickly

2. Poor coaching

3. It doesn’t suit the strengths of the players.

It’s likely a combination of all three, but my biggest concern is point 3. For me, it highlights a lot of our best players weaknesses (Bruno sloppy possession when covering deep, Rashford too wide, Casemiro overrun, Shaw too narrow), whilst taking away all of their best qualities.

I just don’t think we have the squad for the system… it would need ripping up and starting from scratch.

So until that is a reality, play to your strengths.
 
We are just not good enough. It’s more than the manager, something is seriously wrong with the club. We just have to be patient
 
sammyhol said:
Yeh all very fair. I would disagree that a 4231 in defence and attack is “defensive” by definition, but there is clearly a reason that a lot of teams are trying to play this “Pep” system .

However, we look terrible playing it. Which can only be because of a few reasons:

1. Too much change too quickly

2. Poor coaching

3. It doesn’t suit the strengths of the players.

It’s likely a combination of all three, but my biggest concern is point 3. For me, it highlights a lot of our best players weaknesses (Bruno sloppy possession when covering deep, Rashford too wide, Casemiro overrun, Shaw too narrow), whilst taking away all of their best qualities.

I just don’t think we have the squad for the system… it would need ripping up and starting from scratch.

So until that is a reality, play to your strengths.
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The thing is that, this team is mostly his player’s and System
 
BeepBeepImAJeep said:
Id say it’s the type of performance / result that Burnley would be happy with under Dyche circa 2018.

That might be about where we are at now in fairness.
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Well it's not, we're clearly capable of way more than they ever were, but today was just about getting through without been humilated again, so it was good result.
 
#07 said:
Today's performance at JuAnfield, as well as the one against Bayern, actually makes me a little annoyed with Ten Hag.

We all knew playing a double pivot, with two actual centre midfielders instead of converted attacking midfielders, world make us more stable. Why didn't he do it at 3-1 up against Galatasaray?

Plenty of stuff he did today could have been done in the weeks previous. Which would have stopped the likes of Bournemouth going through us like week old curry.

Better late than never I suppose.
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But is he going to keep it? I mean he didn't have Bruno today.

I fear he will revert back to the nonsense 5-0-5
 
I remember pre Eth fans used to say ole was a dinosaur for playing a double pivot, that that was the main thing holding us back, and that every top/ modern team had a single pivot.

Why is the current narrative so staunch against a single pivot?
 
sammyhol said:
Yeh all very fair. I would disagree that a 4231 in defence and attack is “defensive” by definition, but there is clearly a reason that a lot of teams are trying to play this “Pep” system .

However, we look terrible playing it. Which can only be because of a few reasons:

1. Too much change too quickly

2. Poor coaching

3. It doesn’t suit the strengths of the players.

It’s likely a combination of all three, but my biggest concern is point 3. For me, it highlights a lot of our best players weaknesses (Bruno sloppy possession when covering deep, Rashford too wide, Casemiro overrun, Shaw too narrow), whilst taking away all of their best qualities.

I just don’t think we have the squad for the system… it would need ripping up and starting from scratch.

So until that is a reality, play to your strengths.
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I'd say there is a bigger reason it is not working.

Not compact enough, defense is too deep, too much space in the middle covered by 1 DM while the attack 5 and back 4 are miles apart. This way we wouldn't play well even if we had Rodri or Rice at DM
 
mav_9me said:
I'd say there is a bigger reason it is not working.

Not compact enough, defense is too deep, too much space in the middle covered by 1 DM while the attack 5 and back 4 are miles apart. This way we wouldn't play well even if we had Rodri or Rice at DM
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Completely agree. But there is one huge reason for that.

None of our CBs have any pace. None of them. So they have to be deep or balls over the top would destroy us. Thereby making the system unworkable. Just another example highlighting has unsuited the squad is to the system.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I remember pre Eth fans used to say ole was a dinosaur for playing a double pivot, that that was the main thing holding us back, and that every top/ modern team had a single pivot.

Why is the current narrative so staunch against a single pivot?
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My problem is not that we are playing with a single pivot. But the way we are playing with a single pivot. Not compact enough, defense is not high enough, don't press well enough, don't keep the ball enough to regain energy.

The way you play with a single pivot is the way City and Arsenal play, so that you suffocate the opposition and play the game in the other half, not enter into a back and forth transition game of end to end.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
McTominay is a shadow striker. Amrabat is definitely a DM just a painfully unathletic one
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Agreed about Amrabat, I don't understand why would anyone question it.
McTominay is a player that many managers would love to have in their squad (he can play multiple positions, and can actually score goals), but no top manager would modify the setup just to accomodate him in a way Eric is doing now.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I remember pre Eth fans used to say ole was a dinosaur for playing a double pivot, that that was the main thing holding us back, and that every top/ modern team had a single pivot.

Why is the current narrative so staunch against a single pivot?
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That wasn't the reason nor the criticism. The reason for Ole was we played shit football. It has little to do with the formation, and much more to do with the instructions the manager gives these players and how they play the formation. It is the same right now. 4-3-3 is fine, but the way we've been playing it has been basically 4-1-5, not 4-3-3. That's where it's an issue.
 
bond19821982 said:
Again, I have no idea what's people expecting from our team when we have the whole first team out. We just don't have the quality to play the way you guys want .

How many times have we played with our best team this season ? Anyone has the stats. I'm too lazy to check that.
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Yeah I made the same point. A lot of people are judging the results as if we have a fully fit team and are not in the middle of an insane injury crisis.
 
#07 said:
Today's performance at JuAnfield, as well as the one against Bayern, actually makes me a little annoyed with Ten Hag.

We all knew playing a double pivot, with two actual centre midfielders instead of converted attacking midfielders, world make us more stable. Why didn't he do it at 3-1 up against Galatasaray?

Plenty of stuff he did today could have been done in the weeks previous. Which would have stopped the likes of Bournemouth going through us like week old curry.

Better late than never I suppose.
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If Bruno had been available, I am not sure he would have made any change to the way we play.
 
sammyhol said:
Completely agree. But there is one huge reason for that.

None of our CBs have any pace. None of them. So they have to be deep or balls over the top would destroy us. Thereby making the system unworkable. Just another example highlighting has unsuited the squad is to the system.
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So if you play this system you have to play high line and play the decent pace CBs like Varane and Shaw at CB and do your best. The way we are doing is worse cuz you can see how clearly it doesn't work.

Also there is 0 reason to play this system if you can't trust your CBs to play high. I mean you would not be hitting over the top balls for Weghorst to chase, right? This is the same.
 
We've scored one more goal than Luton who have a game in hand. One of the worst attacking coaches I've seen, utterly clueless in the final third. Rubbish at set pieces too. It's unacceptable. Honestly our top scorer this season could have 7 or 8 goals
 
Borys said:
He has built a team that is capable of playing Europe/International competitions, but not EPL. I can understand poor performance against Bayern. But we are too week to compete against physical teams in this league.
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What in the everloving feck is this.
We finished bottom of our group in the CL and are now out of Europe altogether at the earliest stage.
Apart from Martinez and Casemiro (who was likely a club signing), he's signed nothing but mid table level players.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
We've scored one more goal than Luton who have a game in hand. One of the worst attacking coaches I've seen, utterly clueless in the final third. Rubbish at set pieces too. It's unacceptable. Honestly our top scorer this season could have 7 or 8 goals
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He's a pretty poor attacking coach but he also has an absolutely abysmal set of attacking options, partially self-inflicted. I'd swap our attackers for pretty much any other top 10 team.
 
Just checked the table, it’s crazy at the top with everyone dropping points this year, how I’d love for him to be able to put a run together, forget his crazy tactics while we have injuries and just set up the team according to what he has and play to their strengths
 
mu4c_20le said:
Thought we were very lucky not to concede, and the players deserve most of the credit for defending well.
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Not totally disagreeing, but how many clear cut chances did they really have? Some of the corner defending was poor and the TAA miss was inches. Not sure how many others?

I thought we had just as many, maybe?

We are in a bad spot and I am not sure he is 'the guy' but I thought defensively we were set up well today.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Thought we were very lucky not to concede, and the players deserve most of the credit for defending well.
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We were pretty unlucky not to score as well. It was attritional but effective.

The players did well. As always, it is the players and the manager who deserve the credit just as when we lose it is both who should share the blame.

Lining up like that, I would expect our players to make it hard for Liv. I don’t want to see them playing like that every week, as we’re not going to score many if we do, but to have the flexibility to switch to that tactic when required will be useful.

The squad does not contain enough players with the right blend of technique, intelligence and physicality to successfully implement the high pressing style we’ve been aiming for. EtH needs to flip his mindset from revolution to evolution.

I’m okay with getting a few clean sheets under our belt for now. When we get everyone back we might have some prospects for trying the high press again.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Just checked the table, it’s crazy at the top with everyone dropping points this year, how I’d love for him to be able to put a run together, forget his crazy tactics while we have injuries and just set up the team according to what he has and play to their strengths
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Yeah, I’m on board with this for the time being.
 
mav_9me said:
Isn't that on the manager and they way he setup up?
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I don't buy that personally. A Barca for example never had problems being compact with Busquets as the lone defensive midfield. Our tactical understanding of defensive spacing and commitment to put the work in has mostly been lacking this season. This is the first time we understood and implemented that full game this term. Which explains plenty about our defensive woes all season.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Just checked the table, it’s crazy at the top with everyone dropping points this year, how I’d love for him to be able to put a run together, forget his crazy tactics while we have injuries and just set up the team according to what he has and play to their strengths
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This squad don't have any strengths.
 
GMoore23 said:
What in the everloving feck is this.
We finished bottom of our group in the CL and are now out of Europe altogether at the earliest stage.
Apart from Martinez and Casemiro (who was likely a club signing), he's signed nothing but mid table level players.
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We are out of CL because of individual mistakes from Onana. He doesn't do those mistakes in the league, it looks to be an anomaly in the bedding in period (hopefully).
He's been bringing players who are too week physically to play in the EPL (or on the decline).
Hojlund is a good example, he doesn't do much against defenders that can match his physicality.
A lot of the players he brought seem to be doing very well on international stage wouldn't you agree?
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I remember pre Eth fans used to say ole was a dinosaur for playing a double pivot, that that was the main thing holding us back, and that every top/ modern team had a single pivot.

Why is the current narrative so staunch against a single pivot?
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Indeed you are correct.

The answer is : because caftards.
 
mav_9me said:
My problem is not that we are playing with a single pivot. But the way we are playing with a single pivot. Not compact enough, defense is not high enough, don't press well enough, don't keep the ball enough to regain energy.

The way you play with a single pivot is the way City and Arsenal play, so that you suffocate the opposition and play the game in the other half, not enter into a back and forth transition game of end to end.
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I don't think we have the players for that. You need fullbacks capable of inverting, a mobile and quick backline, and hard working players on the wings. Literally the opposite of what we currently have. His best bet is to go with a more traditional counter-system. Double pivot CMs with overlapping fullbacks in a rope defense, a 10 and a front three that runs in behind. Dumb it down for them.
 
Leftback99 said:
This squad don't have any strengths.
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They clearly do. playing two forward midfielders when we haven’t got a good enough dm or fast enough centre backs to cover for that should be parked for now. Get mainoo and amrabat as two deeper midfielders to protect the defence. Use two genuine centre backs and keep shaw out on the left. Try and use the pace of Garnacho / rashford on the break and get Bruno feeding them and hojlund in behind so he has some balls to run onto instead of constantly having to play with his back to goal. It’s simple stuff really but if it helps us keep clean sheets for a while while we steady the ship and the players can get some goals doing what they know they’re good at it could lift the team untill we get players back before ten hag tries this more adventurous style he’s trying to implement
 
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