Don’t forget Kim Min Jae and gets Jonny Evans
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Don’t forget Kim Min Jae and gets Jonny Evans
What?
Arteta took Arsenal from 8th the season he started to 8th the next season, after winning the FA cup.
ETH is taking us from 3rd to (at this rate) about 10th, plus humiliations in every other competition. He's spent £400m on all his favourite players to achieve this.
This isnt complicated stuff.
My bad, thanks for reminding me.
I nearly forgot to mention again that he got Weghorst as our starting striker and people think that he chose this striker out of all strikers in Europe as opposed to it being the only player United could get him after offloading Ronaldo.
Ah but FFP, right? While Chelsea and city make a mockery of it, it’s great that our owners are so frugal and rigid when it comes to spending on the team.
First of all, if this much vaunted "structure" at the club gets established or we hire a good sporting director, what do you think's going to happen? The managers would end up getting players who were not their top targets and they've to get on with coaching them. That's exactly how other top clubs function and how we all seem to want Utd to function. The reason why we have a mish mash squad is precisely because our managers got too many of their top targets, not the other way around.
Secondly, you seem to be completely absolving the managers of any blame in this process. Maybe their top targets didn't want to join because the manager wanting them was shite? Or maybe the targeted player just didn't want to play for the manager or even Utd. You think everyone grows up dreaming of playing for Utd or that they definitely will play for us if we throw enough cash at them?
Ah. 10th. Currently 6th though right? Which is what we know for a fact rather than some ability to see into the future, which I presume you lack the ability to do as you don't strike me as the Mystic Meg type.
So 8th to 8th plus a cup.
How does that compare with say 6th to 3rd and a cup? Probably better but what if we weren't absolute morons? Not better then? Interesting.
We've learned a lot today. Thank you.
You're a monster. For god sake show them some mercy!
6th to 3rd was last season, when Ten Hag has a bad season we shouldn’t just pretend it isn’t happening and call people morons.
Poor Erik, he never gets what he wants. Hopefully with new owners, they will sign the players HE wants.
That comparison would work if it was August 2023.
Shame there’s been 4 months of hideous football and 12 defeats since then.
But we're comparing with Artetas first season? Jesus wept.
And yeh, he's having a bad season. Nobody has said otherwise. Are people actually suggesting anyone is saying we are having a good season?
The guy you put your snarky reply to literally mentions Arteta’s first two seasons, the compares to Ten Hag’s first season and the current one. If I were going to call people morons I would at least read the posts.
ETH’s net spend is around 400 million. That is a good budget to sign proper players. Any manager would be happy with this sort of budget in such a short period of time. Let’s be realistic here, some of his signings are bad. Antony is a very average player. Mount isn’t bad, but to think he signed him for a CM position gives me a headache. These signings cost us around 150 million.
But I am not writing him off yet. As you said, we haven’t gotten consistent with any manager for the last 10 years. To be fair to ETH, he’s had lots of injuries to deal with. I would surely want him to stay longer. Give him more time to rebuild.
We should give ETH at least a couple of windows under the new football structure. It would be beneficial to see what he could do with the right ownership group in charge of the club.
ETH’s contract will be up by the time this INEOS lot get in anyway.
Honestly, it's embarrassing that people even have to lump multiple competitions together to even make a point.
We've clearly been poor for those 4 months bar a few better performances. We have also seen a few bright sparks in terms of young exciting players beginning to establish themselves, which in some ways has been aided by our ridiculous injury crisis. While being poor though, we have also won 9 league games which has allowed us to keep in touch with the top 4 and should not be disregarded given the simple fact of returning players. They will make us better, it's not debatable, unless you think the current sides being put out are our strongest sides...
It's entirely possible to acknowledge the shite, the mistakes, the utterly baffling tactical decisions while also seeing the bigger picture. That's a balanced view of the situation, the only view that deserves to be taken seriously. If you have to dismiss the context, regurgitate shite off twitter (which also lacks context) and selectively compare with previous managers while dismissing others doing the same because it doesn't support your own view, then you have no argument at all.
We are seeing United at their worst right now and we are still scraping points together. We flopped in Europe but that was on one player, the others did their job, we played some good entertaining football in the majority of games. It's difficult to account for individual errors, especially multiple logic defying errors.
So far we have the ETH out lot absolving every other factor of any part in this. From the Glazers and the shambles of a club they run to the indisputable loss of numerous important players. Yet they expect to be taken seriously and have the absolute nerve to call others cultists or mental? Come off it.
If SJR does indeed buy 25% of the Glazers shares which is 17% of the club nothing will really change anyway, the Glazers will still be there as majority share holders arnt going to hand any kind of control over to someone who owns only 17% of the club and SJR isnt going to pump a further £1.5-2bn in to a club he only owns 17% of to clear its debt and bebuild its stadium.
Could you remind me of second season outcome? Make it the 3rd so we can avoid any further discussion on the clown over at Arsenal because someone will point out he didn't start until December in the first...
Arteta has also spent a small fortune to do that……..
Very good post
To do what? He had one summer window between finishing 8th and 8th again. He signed Gabriel and Partey for a combined £68m.
Since then he's spent a lot yeah, and I dunno if you noticed but they did just compete for the title until the last month of the season. And they play quite nice football as well, unlike say, us.
But also another reason why the comparisons between ETH and Arteta are so fecking dumb. He hasn't justified them keeping him at all yet. He hasn't won anything more. What he's done is made it easy for them to decide to keep him at each evaluation point, due to constant improvement.
Not sure why Arteta’s name comes up all the time like he’s won a major trophy or even challenged for the title for a full season.
Yes I will admit I wanted him to get the job,however didn't realise back then he demanded full control of transfers. I also expected to see that manager at Ajax,so when he said we would never see that with these players I wondered why we ever appointed him.
He won the "gave City half a season of title chase" trophy.
Me neither tbh but when it is suddenly everyone knew he would achieve greatness in second place.
I suppose one reason to bring Arteta in to the conversation is as a counter to the "how come some managers can come in and it works right away" like Ange at Spurs. Almost as if both arguments are meaningless...
Pretty simple, its the closest parallel in terms of what Ten Hag is going through, so of course Arteta is going to be brought up.
The funny thing is that based on their first couple years Ten Hag is outperforming Arteta.
Not entirely sure Arteta has even had a better season at Arsenal than Ten Hags first at United, yet. It's a lot easier to go all in on one target than go for multiple.
They played something like 16 fewer games than United, almost half a league season less.
The better comparison is probably with Klopp. Not over a particular season but in how Klopp didn't show much until he was given a proper structure above him and a top class DOF, who transformed Liverpool and the aftermath of competiting on all fronts in one season. Liverpool fans were calling Talksport last season demanding his sacking because they were playing like they had just woke up, they were clearly knackered and it took until the last quarter of a season to get up to speed. It's similar for United this season, the team looks absolutely shattered and add to that relentless injuries. As soon as I saw the first game this season, by half time I could already see it was going to be a struggle for the first half of the season.
Klopps real rise at Liverpool also coincided with Edwards coming in. Klopps a coach, Ten Hags a coach. Managers don't exist in football anymore, not at the top level. United as a club are decades behind and I know we all know this, there's a bloody thread about getting a DOF where it's universally agreed we need one or nobody will succeed here. But people forget this and so much more to attack the current manager. You can't criticise him for signing players while knowing he shouldn't be signing players. That's on the ownership FFS. It's like giving someone a knife and telling them to perform surgery even though they're not a doctor. Then telling them they're not very good. The feck did you expect!!!
Lot's of gooners are disenchanted with Arteta despite their league position. They have been spoilt by Wenger and feel that Arteta sets up too defensively, his substitutions are too late in the game and predictable and he never plays the kids. Instead he flogs his 'best 11' to death, witness their dead rubber CL game when he took a few kids but didn't play them, choosing to bring Rice off the bench who definitely would have benefited from being left behind.
The grass isn't always greener.
1:10 ->
Even Magnus knows.
I don’t agree with this. He was given 400m in 12 months. Maybe if he didn’t spend 90m on Antony he could have got Kane, 60m on Mount he could have got Kim. He’s had funds and identified a load of ex players for astronomical fees
We finally started a half decent clear out and have spunked 400m on shite that needs replacing yet again
The immediate problem is that the squad has so few options due to injuries.
EtH only has 2 decisions to make, play Amrabat or Mainoo and then decide if Hojlund or Martial should play up front.
The rest is just sending out whoever is fit.
But if he can get 4 points from the next 3 games then that has to be seen as a success.
EtH only has 2 decisions to make, play Amrabat or Mainoo and then decide if Hojlund or Martial should play up front.
The rest is just sending out whoever is fit.
But if he can get 4 points from the next 3 games then that has to be seen as a success.
But the club has proven they can’t negotiate for anyone! so they will always end up paying over the odds.
It was hardly EtH on the phone shouting higher! higher! with every bid.
What is Eth supposed to be in this analogy, a chef??
Here is a better one. A surgeon asks for knife and sutures during the surgery and the nurse gets them to the surgeon. While the surgery is being performed, the patient is bleeding to death while half the operating room is blaming the nurse ,shouting "Why did you give them the knife, you should know better to not giving them what they asked for. You are supposed to pick the knifes for them and they shouldn't be asking you. If only we had a competent nurse, the patient could have been saved."
I am wondering if this whole idea about DOF should sign the players and not him would still be an argument, had the signings been successful??.. This seems to be an argument that's only coming up this season, why?. Last year the majority of the narrative was to say that Eth did a great recruitment job in finding Martinez and Casemiro.
Managers have rarely existed outside of the UK. It's a model that has been pushed aside more than 50 years ago.
Maybe it’s him telling the board we need more technically gifted players to play that way. I get you can’t play that way with players like Maguire and Mctominay who btw are our most inform players surprisingly.
Has Arteta had a better season at Arsenal than ETH first with us?This Arteta drivel again
We'll only get worse with each passing month under ETH. You wouldnt be able to bet on it because it's a foregone conclusion.
It was an argument long before ETH and remains so to this day. A DOF does far more than just identifying players though.
Even without ETH, unless we join the modern game United will continue with the same problems we all know yet some choose to ignore when it suits.
I agree with that but can’t deny he’s changed their fortunes.
In one main way he and ETH have done a similar thing. Weed out the wasters and those with poor attitudes / bad influences.
Arsenal stuck with their plan.
I’m not sure even if we stick with ETH it would work out but in general I like that approach.
There is lots I don’t like as well, but the attitude/discipline but he has got spot on.
We're a bit slow over in England when it comes to moving forward as you can probably tell. But over the past decade or so there has been a big shift towards the DOF model. Sir Alex and Wenger are really the last two true managers in football and you will never get anyone like Sir Alex again.
We absolutely shouldn't.
What’s your suggestion then…
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